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The game needs a complete stats/characteristics overhaul
HoffmannTheBest
✭✭✭
I look at this system of characteristics and do not understand why it is needed at all. In additional characteristics everything is at zero, where to get resistance to the elements - it is not clear, why elemental damage is introduced at all if there is no resistance to it - it is not clear. In single-player games there is elemental damage and enchantments to protect against this elemental damage, where the maximum protection is 80% in fact.
Therefore, I propose the following:
1. Completely rework the enchantment system so that there are elemental protection glyphs, instead of the usual increase in magical and physical defense. What good are they if you have no protection from elemental damage? Then why introduce resistances at all if they cannot be improved?
No matter what glyph for protection you make, there will always be physical and magical protection, therefore, you need to add an increase in resistance to the element, the glyph of which you chose, in addition to increasing protection. Where the maximum resistance of one glyph is no more than 15-20% of legendary rarity.
Defenses should be separate from resistances. The defense system should be flexible, not linear like a steel rod. The player should be able to gain resistance to elemental damage, but not wear heavy armor or a bunch of defense enchantments.
2. Remove or rework penetration, since it is of no use at all. 3k penetration and 60% crit are enough to easily penetrate any tank, so I don’t understand how penetration affects damage at all, if 10k penetration is not enough to kill a mage, and 3k penetration and 60% crit are enough to penetrate and kill a tank.
Also, because of penetration, the weapon becomes completely useless. The weapon’s damage is already tiny, and the defense completely neutralizes almost all damage, and it is impossible to achieve more than 10k penetration (personally for me).
To inflict true damage with a weapon, you need to completely penetrate the target’s defense. That is, to inflict 1500 damage to a tank with a weapon, you need to have 35-40k penetration, thereby penetration neutralizes the tank’s defense and the weapon’s damage goes through without hindrance.
It is necessary and absolutely necessary to simplify the system and reduce the defense numbers, or increase the damage to weapons so that they are not just decoration, but play an important role in all battles.
Currently, the formula looks like this:
Armor reduction = 1 - ((((Resistance - Target Debuff) * (1 - % Penetration) - Penetration) / (Target.EffectiveLevel * 1000))))
It is simply impossible to calculate, and if you calculate it, the values are very tiny. It is impossible to calculate, because for an ordinary rank-and-file player, half of the data is closed, such as penetration efficiency or penetration percentage. Where to get this data? Why are they not indicated in additional characteristics? A million columns, and zero information about the characteristics that are really important, according to the developers.
3. Increase resistance to critical damage, since now it's just a pittance. For example, I currently have 6600 critical damage rating, a chance of about 60%, and I deal critical damage quite often and it takes away a lot of health from the enemy, no matter what his physical and magical defense rating is, another stone in the garden of useless penetration. And why is that? Because resistance to critical damage is extremely low, in fact, you can just pump everything for crit and not worry about who has how much physical and magical defense, the main thing is that the critical damage rating and the chance of critical damage are higher than the resistance.
4. Add numbers and chances in percentages so that players can see the data, see their weak and strong points, and not just metaphorical five-digit numbers from which nothing is clear at all.
For example, a player has pumped up his defense to 30k, he should be told how much damage he can block based on a test on a dummy that would attack him. Plus, he should be told the statistics of the last damage dealt, so that he can calculate what the enemy's penetration rating is and what damage. Now there is no information at all. Yes, there is some table with inadequate damage from which nothing is clear at all, especially in dungeons where atronachs deal 120k damage in one swing.
There should be a strong standardized NPC who will be at the level of the players, by which all the numbers and chances will be calculated. Plus, in PvP, the full characteristics of allies and opponents should be written in a shortened version, as is the case in all PvP games, starting from CS, where the player sees what weapons the ally and opponent bought, and ending with MOBA games, where all players/opponents see the full characteristics, and based on this, change their equipment for a certain situation.
Therefore, I propose the following:
1. Completely rework the enchantment system so that there are elemental protection glyphs, instead of the usual increase in magical and physical defense. What good are they if you have no protection from elemental damage? Then why introduce resistances at all if they cannot be improved?
No matter what glyph for protection you make, there will always be physical and magical protection, therefore, you need to add an increase in resistance to the element, the glyph of which you chose, in addition to increasing protection. Where the maximum resistance of one glyph is no more than 15-20% of legendary rarity.
Defenses should be separate from resistances. The defense system should be flexible, not linear like a steel rod. The player should be able to gain resistance to elemental damage, but not wear heavy armor or a bunch of defense enchantments.
2. Remove or rework penetration, since it is of no use at all. 3k penetration and 60% crit are enough to easily penetrate any tank, so I don’t understand how penetration affects damage at all, if 10k penetration is not enough to kill a mage, and 3k penetration and 60% crit are enough to penetrate and kill a tank.
Also, because of penetration, the weapon becomes completely useless. The weapon’s damage is already tiny, and the defense completely neutralizes almost all damage, and it is impossible to achieve more than 10k penetration (personally for me).
To inflict true damage with a weapon, you need to completely penetrate the target’s defense. That is, to inflict 1500 damage to a tank with a weapon, you need to have 35-40k penetration, thereby penetration neutralizes the tank’s defense and the weapon’s damage goes through without hindrance.
It is necessary and absolutely necessary to simplify the system and reduce the defense numbers, or increase the damage to weapons so that they are not just decoration, but play an important role in all battles.
Currently, the formula looks like this:
Armor reduction = 1 - ((((Resistance - Target Debuff) * (1 - % Penetration) - Penetration) / (Target.EffectiveLevel * 1000))))
It is simply impossible to calculate, and if you calculate it, the values are very tiny. It is impossible to calculate, because for an ordinary rank-and-file player, half of the data is closed, such as penetration efficiency or penetration percentage. Where to get this data? Why are they not indicated in additional characteristics? A million columns, and zero information about the characteristics that are really important, according to the developers.
3. Increase resistance to critical damage, since now it's just a pittance. For example, I currently have 6600 critical damage rating, a chance of about 60%, and I deal critical damage quite often and it takes away a lot of health from the enemy, no matter what his physical and magical defense rating is, another stone in the garden of useless penetration. And why is that? Because resistance to critical damage is extremely low, in fact, you can just pump everything for crit and not worry about who has how much physical and magical defense, the main thing is that the critical damage rating and the chance of critical damage are higher than the resistance.
4. Add numbers and chances in percentages so that players can see the data, see their weak and strong points, and not just metaphorical five-digit numbers from which nothing is clear at all.
For example, a player has pumped up his defense to 30k, he should be told how much damage he can block based on a test on a dummy that would attack him. Plus, he should be told the statistics of the last damage dealt, so that he can calculate what the enemy's penetration rating is and what damage. Now there is no information at all. Yes, there is some table with inadequate damage from which nothing is clear at all, especially in dungeons where atronachs deal 120k damage in one swing.
There should be a strong standardized NPC who will be at the level of the players, by which all the numbers and chances will be calculated. Plus, in PvP, the full characteristics of allies and opponents should be written in a shortened version, as is the case in all PvP games, starting from CS, where the player sees what weapons the ally and opponent bought, and ending with MOBA games, where all players/opponents see the full characteristics, and based on this, change their equipment for a certain situation.
4
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JonesFPS✭✭✭Overland Adds -- roughly 9k resistance
Bosses/Elite Addds -- 18.2k resistance
Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
Extra glyphs would not be needed if im not incorrect because certain dmg types fall under a specific categorie
so flame/shock/ice etc. are magic damage and poison/bleed etc are counted as physical damage types, the only one that falls out of that equation is oblivion dmg, if im not mistaken.
Resistances in PVE are easily achieved through gear/passives/skills/cp's/major,minor buffs or debuffs if needed (or through multiple people for example in a trial situation)
PVP is a whole nother playing field which i dont know anything about.
All in all judging by the other post you made, i'd advice you to take a look into some guides that explain the topics you have questions about.Edited by JonesFPS on 2 October 2024 09:316 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
660 Armor = 1% damage resistance
50% damage resistance = effective max for players, everything above is lost unless enemies can penetrate your armor (PvP)
660 * 50 = 33.000 ArmorI'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.4 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shattered fate + some light pieces is like 10k pen right there. Stack maces and/or sharp weapons even higher. Stack monster peice with pen. Stack major/minor breach.Here $15, goat mount please. Not gambling or paying 45 : lol :
20% base speed for high ping players.
Streak moves you faster then speed cap.
They should of made 4v4v4v4 instead of 8v8.0 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭Overland Adds -- roughly 9k resistance
Bosses/Elite Addds -- 18.2k resistance
Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
Extra glyphs would not be needed if im not incorrect because certain dmg types fall under a specific categorie
so flame/shock/ice etc. are magic damage and poison/bleed etc are counted as physical damage types, the only one that falls out of that equation is oblivion dmg, if im not mistaken.
Resistances in PVE are easily achieved through gear/passives/skills/cp's/major,minor buffs or debuffs if needed (or through multiple people for example in a trial situation)
PVP is a whole nother playing field which i dont know anything about.
All in all judging by the other post you made, i'd advice you to take a look into some guides that explain the topics you have questions about.
Why should I wear heavy armor to get high elemental resistances?0 -
Elemental resistance isn't always 0.
Nords for example have a value there, as do Dunmer and (possibly?) some NPCs, while Bretons have innate magical resistance that doubles if there is an elemental damage effect on them.
In general, those stats are part of modeling the world of the Elder Scrolls - Dunmer are more resilient to fire than Nords, tho are generally more resilient overall and then are even moreso against frost.
Imagine looking at Oblivion's stat system... or Morrowind's...2 -
JonesFPS✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »Overland Adds -- roughly 9k resistance
Bosses/Elite Addds -- 18.2k resistance
Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
Extra glyphs would not be needed if im not incorrect because certain dmg types fall under a specific categorie
so flame/shock/ice etc. are magic damage and poison/bleed etc are counted as physical damage types, the only one that falls out of that equation is oblivion dmg, if im not mistaken.
Resistances in PVE are easily achieved through gear/passives/skills/cp's/major,minor buffs or debuffs if needed (or through multiple people for example in a trial situation)
PVP is a whole nother playing field which i dont know anything about.
All in all judging by the other post you made, i'd advice you to take a look into some guides that explain the topics you have questions about.
Why should I wear heavy armor to get high elemental resistances?
Because the armour rating you see no matter if its light/heavy/medium gives both magical/physical resistances. But i did not say you should wear heavy armour. I just gave a broad explanation where the armour rating can be sourced from.4 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Armor rating is sourced from gear, active skills, passive skills, and abilities. It is also generally harmonized, and elemental resistances are just flavour left over from pre-hybridization and no longer relevant. Only tanks need to worry about their armor rating. If dds need protection, they typically bring shield abilities such as impervious runeward or hardened ward, or another class shield skill.
Tanks do sometimes tank in medium armor, but that's more endgame where the players are good enough to not die while both holding bosses in medium and doing damage.
DPS need 18200 penetration to have max damage against veteran trial and dungeon bosses. Of that 18200, they are responsible for only a small portion , the supports bring the rest via crusher, major and minor breach, and perhaps a pen set that debuffs the enemy for the whole group, such as crimson oath or roar of alkosh.
In trials and dungeons, especially on vet, higher pen (up to 18200) directly correlated to higher damage. You won't be doing 150K single target damage while under-penning.
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Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »Overland Adds -- roughly 9k resistance
Bosses/Elite Addds -- 18.2k resistance
Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
Extra glyphs would not be needed if im not incorrect because certain dmg types fall under a specific categorie
so flame/shock/ice etc. are magic damage and poison/bleed etc are counted as physical damage types, the only one that falls out of that equation is oblivion dmg, if im not mistaken.
Resistances in PVE are easily achieved through gear/passives/skills/cp's/major,minor buffs or debuffs if needed (or through multiple people for example in a trial situation)
PVP is a whole nother playing field which i dont know anything about.
All in all judging by the other post you made, i'd advice you to take a look into some guides that explain the topics you have questions about.
Why should I wear heavy armor to get high elemental resistances?
Because steel doesn't burn?I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.3 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭silky_soft wrote: »Shattered fate + some light pieces is like 10k pen right there. Stack maces and/or sharp weapons even higher. Stack monster peice with pen. Stack major/minor breach.
Shhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't. tell. ANYONE. About shattered fate. Please.
0 -
seventyfive✭✭✭Not sure this will make any difference to anyone at all, but who knows!
1. JonesFPS is correct to note that all damage sources in the game (except oblivion) count as either spell damage or physical damage. Therefore, you already have a lot of resistances against elemental damage. The special stats indicating 0% are telling you how many percent extra reduction you have against that specific magic type (like flame damage). At 0%, you still have your full spell resistance reducing all elemental damage.
2. Critical resistance:
66 Crit Res is -1% damage if the attack received was a crit.
Example:
Robert has 1320 critical resistances. That's the baseline which every character in ESO gets for free.
1320 * 1.5 / 10000 = 0.198 ≈ 20%
Quicker way to calculate: 1320 / 66 ≈ 20
(he also has 20 000 spell resistance: 20000 / 660 ≈ 30)
Eric has:
20% critical chance and
50% critical damage multiplier.
Eric's Flame Lash says 7000 Flame Damage on the tooltip he reads on the skill in-game.
Eric hits Robert with the Flame Lash. It happens to be a crit, and the chance of that happening is 20%.
7000 * 0.5 = 3500 (Battle Spirit)
3500 * (1.5 [critical damage] - 0.2 [critical resistance]) = 4550
4550 * 0.7 [spell resistance] = 3185
Now if Robert has 5% Flame Resistance, that is added in as extra mitigation:
3185 * 0.95 ≈ 3026 Flame Damage taken
Edited by seventyfive on 2 October 2024 14:270 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO needs a major overhaul like the veritable hole in the head. Rather, it needs a period of stability, during which the networking and/or Akamai issues that are plaguing some players can be resolved. Otherwise, if major changes were made to the game then it would be even harder to track down and fix whatever the root cause of the connection and performance issues are.7 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Elemental resistance isn't always 0.
Nords for example have a value there, as do Dunmer and (possibly?) some NPCs, while Bretons have innate magical resistance that doubles if there is an elemental damage effect on them.
In general, those stats are part of modeling the world of the Elder Scrolls - Dunmer are more resilient to fire than Nords, tho are generally more resilient overall and then are even moreso against frost.
Imagine looking at Oblivion's stat system... or Morrowind's...
Singles have a great and flexible defense system. You can wear light armor and it will be as effective as heavy armor. Here, however, this is not the case, light armor is weak, just like medium armor, it does not provide sufficient defense and therefore - sufficient resistance, because resistance and defense are linked, and this should not be. The player should be able to combine resistance and defense regardless of the type of armor, as it is in singles. That is why I proposed to introduce glyphs that increase resistance, while untying resistance from the amount of defense.
In singles, races have much more resistance than here, by the way. I'm not even talking about the Nords' immunity to cold in Morrowind)0 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »Overland Adds -- roughly 9k resistance
Bosses/Elite Addds -- 18.2k resistance
Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
Extra glyphs would not be needed if im not incorrect because certain dmg types fall under a specific categorie
so flame/shock/ice etc. are magic damage and poison/bleed etc are counted as physical damage types, the only one that falls out of that equation is oblivion dmg, if im not mistaken.
Resistances in PVE are easily achieved through gear/passives/skills/cp's/major,minor buffs or debuffs if needed (or through multiple people for example in a trial situation)
PVP is a whole nother playing field which i dont know anything about.
All in all judging by the other post you made, i'd advice you to take a look into some guides that explain the topics you have questions about.
Why should I wear heavy armor to get high elemental resistances?
Because the armour rating you see no matter if its light/heavy/medium gives both magical/physical resistances. But i did not say you should wear heavy armour. I just gave a broad explanation where the armour rating can be sourced from.
Resistances are directly tied to armor rating. The higher the armor rating, the higher the resistance. This should not be. This is why tanks have excellent protection against everything, because they wear heavy armor that does not even need additional enchantments for protection, which is why they are enchanted for health/stamina. And if this is untied, then tanks will have to choose between elemental protection and a large amount of health.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »Overland Adds -- roughly 9k resistance
Bosses/Elite Addds -- 18.2k resistance
Players -- max 34k magical/physical resistance (correct me if im wrong)
Extra glyphs would not be needed if im not incorrect because certain dmg types fall under a specific categorie
so flame/shock/ice etc. are magic damage and poison/bleed etc are counted as physical damage types, the only one that falls out of that equation is oblivion dmg, if im not mistaken.
Resistances in PVE are easily achieved through gear/passives/skills/cp's/major,minor buffs or debuffs if needed (or through multiple people for example in a trial situation)
PVP is a whole nother playing field which i dont know anything about.
All in all judging by the other post you made, i'd advice you to take a look into some guides that explain the topics you have questions about.
Why should I wear heavy armor to get high elemental resistances?
Because the armour rating you see no matter if its light/heavy/medium gives both magical/physical resistances. But i did not say you should wear heavy armour. I just gave a broad explanation where the armour rating can be sourced from.
Resistances are directly tied to armor rating. The higher the armor rating, the higher the resistance. This should not be. This is why tanks have excellent protection against everything, because they wear heavy armor that does not even need additional enchantments for protection, which is why they are enchanted for health/stamina. And if this is untied, then tanks will have to choose between elemental protection and a large amount of health.
Tanks are tanky because they wear tank gear.
Elemental protection is a non issue btw. In most trials the majority of the damage taken is either physical, magical, or oblivion. Choosing only elemental protection would make it so you can't tank the encounters currently in the game.1 -
endorphinsplox✭✭✭✭The advanced stats sheet is functionally worthless and actively lies to you. It also does not track in-combat buffs, unless you view it while in combat in which case, hurry cause it goes away quick! There are elemental resistances sourced from various places. There are jewelry enchants for fire, shock, frost, poison, and disease resistances, as well as the basic physical and magical harm glyphs. There are also things like Encratis' Behemoth set which reduces fire damage taken by 5%, or the Dunmer passive that also decreases fire damage. Argonians, Bosmer, and Nords also have resistances to specific damage types.
I'd also like to point out that comparing this to a singleplayer game is ill-fitting, as the design philosophies are fundamentally different. What you need to understand about defenses in this game is not taught to you by the game because as with most MMOs, the devs have no idea how to make an effective tutorial that explains each stat without it becoming a 200 hour college course lecture. Keep in mind that while this game's stats are confusing at first, they do function the way they're supposed to and the game is functional in that regard, it just takes time to understand the differences between armor mitigation, unique resistances, defensive buffs, and block mitigation.3 -
endorphinsplox✭✭✭✭Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.3
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valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.Edited by valenwood_vegan on 2 October 2024 18:045 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.Edited by HoffmannTheBest on 2 October 2024 18:320 -
Renato90085✭✭✭In Pve dungeon/trial we alway have 18k pen 6-8k weapon 11k crit same time
all good parse 6m dummy alway consider pen first it mean if you solo pen is best chose
all endgame group run/looking for alk dk and ec necor
Because penetration and crit dmg alway important
Crit chance is good but we can easy have 50-60%
only in parse trial dummy,you have full time have full pen and crit dmg
this moment crit chance be important
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sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
It is clear you do not understand the fundamentals of the game and how they work.
In PvE there is no point building above 18200 penetration (most of which is provided by supports in group content), because PvE enemies cap at 18200 resistance (outside of late IA rounds). Anything above that is wasted, so saying you need 30K to make a meaningful difference is just plain not true. The enemies get damage reduction on any damage done to them above your pen, so if you are at pen cap you ignore that damage reduction completely.
Crit damage caps at 125%, and you should build as close to it as possible without going over it. About half of your crit chance is supplied by the supports in an organized group comp.
Crit chance is what you build into once you've finished building into pen and crit damage.
If you parse against the trial dummy you will have the typical support buffs provided to you with perfect uptimes so you can see how you compare to other players in an organized group environment. You can even do this to test the effect of providing extra pen vs extra Crit damage vs extra Crit chance.9 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.6 -
Trejgon✭✭✭✭ESO needs a major overhaul like the veritable hole in the head. Rather, it needs a period of stability, during which the networking and/or Akamai issues that are plaguing some players can be resolved. Otherwise, if major changes were made to the game then it would be even harder to track down and fix whatever the root cause of the connection and performance issues are.
Tbh an overhaul to stats calculation when done right could actually improve server performance and stability considerably. Like that level squared(!) has no business being there in critical chance formula, and is a very expensive mathematical operation in terms of computing performance.
Not sure about OP's specific idea for it, but I'd be definitelly down for zos overhauling base combat math to simplify the excess calculations. That being said considering how long they are taking to just finish hybridization (which ultimately was supposed to lead to merger of weapon/spell stats and buffs, which would alone shave off alot of calculations by not having to calculate everything in the double) I would not hold my breath for them attempting such thing in any predictable future.0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
In PvE mobs have a default 100 pen (unless they’ve silently removed that in the past few months), so add 100 more if you want to reach absolute cap there.0 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.2 -
HoffmannTheBest✭✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nobody will do those things except the people who spend $15 million monthly on the game so they can do those things.
Random people gathered in one team created a full-fledged role-playing MMO based on Skyrim, and it is absolutely free and without donations, and they spend less than 15 million dollars on it, and without any stupid pseudo "complex mechanics".
If you do something complicated, it should be intuitive or there should be a guide, and not this useless tutorial at the very beginning, where they explain which buttons to press. This is such useful information! (no)
Zero tutorials about penetration, defense, resistances, damage types, types of overlay effects, types of control, but a lot of tutorials about which button to press to open the map. Even in the oldest online games there is a tutorial explaining the mechanics, and not explaining which button to press to open the inventory.
The help button in game contains a surprising wealth of information - more than you would expect. I suggest going through it. The last time I took a good look at it I was pleasantly surprised by how in depth some of the entries were.
The tutorial is being revised with the newest content update coming Oct 28.3 -
HoffmannTheBest wrote: »ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »Elemental resistance isn't always 0.
Nords for example have a value there, as do Dunmer and (possibly?) some NPCs, while Bretons have innate magical resistance that doubles if there is an elemental damage effect on them.
In general, those stats are part of modeling the world of the Elder Scrolls - Dunmer are more resilient to fire than Nords, tho are generally more resilient overall and then are even moreso against frost.
Imagine looking at Oblivion's stat system... or Morrowind's...
Singles have a great and flexible defense system. You can wear light armor and it will be as effective as heavy armor. Here, however, this is not the case, light armor is weak, just like medium armor, it does not provide sufficient defense and therefore - sufficient resistance, because resistance and defense are linked, and this should not be. The player should be able to combine resistance and defense regardless of the type of armor, as it is in singles. That is why I proposed to introduce glyphs that increase resistance, while untying resistance from the amount of defense.
In singles, races have much more resistance than here, by the way. I'm not even talking about the Nords' immunity to cold in Morrowind)
You can max resistances in light armor. You just have to get them from *not the armor itself*
(Just like in the singles, a character with 50 in Heavy Armor and 50 in Light Armor will have higher damage reduction heavy armor).
There are TONS of ways to get resistances in ESO. Heck I get about 15k (40-45% of the max) outside armor ... Just be mindful.Edited by ragnarok6644b14_ESO on 3 October 2024 22:271 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoffmannTheBest wrote: »HoffmannTheBest wrote: »endorphinsplox wrote: »Also its wild to say penetration is worthless. Its clear to me you know next to nothing about this game's design and functions. Penetration efficiency depends on the target and anyone with the Combat Metrics addon will already know their penetration in PvE. PvP is so target dependent that you can't have one stat block showing your efficiency against all targets. On top of that, there's ways to ignore armor or other types of mitigation entirely. Play a Corrosive Armor DK or run Onslaught and you'll see what I mean. The point is, there are many ways to mitigate or deal damage in this game, allowing players a number of options to build with. A DK might not need to build penetration due to corrosive and can just build weapon and spell damage instead. Just spend some more time with the game before posting on the forums calling for reworks of systems you aren't familiar with.
Penetration is useless and I showed why this is so with my own example. 10k penetration will not replace 6k crit with 60% chance. For penetration to really affect something, the weapon must have at least 10k damage, or penetration must be at least 30k, and this is unrealistic to achieve.valenwood_vegan wrote: »Suggest directing more effort into the learning the game, because they're not going to redevelop a successful ten year old game to suit one player's tastes. Particularly when such requests are made without extensive knowledge of existing game systems.
And even if they WERE going to, it would take years at the current pace of development.
Do certainly agree that the game itself does a terrible job teaching players anything.
There are great guides and helpful guilds out there though.
It's not successful because it's new, or because it's interesting in terms of gameplay, but because it uses a universe that everyone loves. That's the secret to its success.
Yes, I have turned into a hater of my favorite game.
If you don't know how Penetration works your own example is useles as you did the testing wrong (no front). You can't simply compare tons of Crit Chance with a medium amount of Penetration, that's not how it works.
There're tons of nuances to ESO's fighting system, it took me months to actually learn only parts of it. The more you know the more sense everything's doing. Go watch some guides, Skinny Cheeks on YT is one of the best to explain everything you need to know. At some point you'll understand why a random player passing by kills an Overland boss in mere seconds while you're having trouble for minutes now.
NOBODY will read some manuals, NOBODY will spend a lot of time studying something there. People came to PLAY, and they want to be allowed to do it.
In the Dark Souls series, it is easier to understand how things work than in TESO, because there it is intuitively clear what and how it works, and here you have to go somewhere, read something somewhere from someone, because the developers are not user friendly.
At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing. Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Nothing you write will actually change anything in the game, there's no use in telling those things to me. If you don't want to learn and become better that's your choice, play as you want. Just don't be surprised if you don't get as much fun out of it.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.2 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭At best, players will just go through the story, at worst - they will skip the game after a couple of weeks of playing.
No, the absolute worst case scenario is people playing the game for 2 months and then starting to lecture the world in length about what's wrong with the entire design.Especially with such a terrible crafting system, where you need to spend months learning the features to complete master orders. I'm surprised the game didn't die 6 years ago.
Maybe the fact that this game is 10 years old and people are still playing it means, that your views are not representative and that you have picked the wrong game/genre?
Edited by thorwyn on 4 October 2024 07:18And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon9