Why not move The Elder Scrolls: Legends in TESO?

TDVM · October 1

The Elder Scrolls: Legends stopped being officially supported a long time ago, why not bring this card game to ESO? It looks and plays much better than the current card game.
Sound effects, visuals, mechanics, everything is top notch. Also the lore will not be a problem

P.S - If you noticed on the first screen there are symbols from an ancient scroll, and all these are visions from an ancient scroll that can show the future and the past (this is in case anyone has any questions or claims that the maps will be out of lore).

VS

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

flizomica · October 1

This is exactly what I was hoping ToT would be, or something like Gwent - where I could collect cards from around the world and create my own deck.

I'd also like to add that the card art in Legends is absolutely fantastic.

Warhawke_80 · October 1

Yeah Legends is an awesome game....I just could never get into ToT...but the devs love what they created, and we just don't have a say in it unfortunately.... At least we can still play Legends....it's such a fun game too bad it didn't take off, they could have done a mobile app that would have allowed us to play with folks in game...how cool would that have been?

JemadarofCaerSalis · October 1

I really don't see why we can't have both?

Not everyone likes ToT, not everyone likes a game like Gwent or Legends. So having both in the game would be the best of both worlds, especially for those that DO like both.

SeaGtGruff · October 1

"The lore will not be a problem"? Do you realize that Legends is set in the far future as compared to ESO?

This same request was made in the forums a few years ago by players who want Legends to continue being developed, and the action which ZOS took in response to those players' request was to add Tales of Tribute to ESO. Why would anyone think that ZOS would choose a different action when faced with the same request as before?

Frankly, I suspect that Legends would still be in active development if it had been, and continued to be, a lucrative endeavor for Bethesda and the company(ies) who designed it. The fact that no new content is being actively developed for Legends would seem to suggest that it wasn't as lucrative as everyone hoped.

TheBardAtTheInn · October 1

An issue with Legends is that a large chunk of the cards are characters and people that won't exist for close to a thousand years from now. They'd have to be removed or replaced for it to make sense in the Second Era.

colossalvoids · October 1

It's a different separate game more or less, different timeline etc. but I'd agree that it's a better game than tot.

Warhawke_80 · October 1

TheBardAtTheInn wrote: »

An issue with Legends is that a large chunk of the cards are characters and people that won't exist for close to a thousand years from now. They'd have to be removed or replaced for it to make sense in the Second Era.

But they could have done that a lot easier than developing a new game....but it doesn't matter now what's done is done.

SeaGtGruff · October 1

Also, there are already players who complain about how Tales of Tribute is supposedly taking development time and money away from the main game and the fixing of bugs. If by some miracle Legends were to be imported into ESO and new content were to be developed for it, those same complaints would probably be made against Legends.

Personofsecrets · October 1

I played Legends quite a bit. It was enough play to be able to correctly predict the cards that my opponent would use and participate in one of the world championship events.

The biggest downside of legends was that whoever was making development choices didn't learn form their mistakes.

They went with the wrong people when utilizing Direwolf Digital and it was a disappointment that they stuck to drawing from that same pool of friends when getting design talent under Sparky.

In the end, there ended up being too many overpowered cards. This include right as the designers were walking out the door. Why introduce new broken game pieces at that point which will not be adjusted as needed?

I'd hate to see those who enjoy that game further undermined by an all new design team adding more unfun things to play with.

Syldras · October 1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

"The lore will not be a problem"? Do you realize that Legends is set in the far future as compared to ESO?

To be fair, ToT is nonsensical as well. Not even the NPCs know whether the game is brand new or ages old (there's dialogue claiming both - from characters who belong to that club and advertise it, so they should have a clue). The whole concept and the neccessary equipment look much too complicated and expensive for a wide-spread tavern game in a medieval era (even if the world knows magic). What sense does it make to center the theme of some decks around enemies, even recent ones and those that normal people would probably never had heard about (So how could anyone have made a card about them)? And then the founders or masters just camp in the wilderness their whole life because someone might pass by and demand to play cards with them...?!

At that point, realism and lore don't matter anymore and it could just as well be TES Legends.

karthrag_inak · October 1

You know, they could move Legends into ESO and keep everything the same and explain all the anachronistic lore by saying, very simply, that the cards foretell the/(a possible) future.

Franchise408 · October 1

Legends is probably among my favorite online card games. I thought it was really well done.

And that's as someone who had no initial interest in it whatsoever and thought it would be bad.

JemadarofCaerSalis · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

"The lore will not be a problem"? Do you realize that Legends is set in the far future as compared to ESO?

To be fair, ToT is nonsensical as well. Not even the NPCs know whether the game is brand new or ages old (there's dialogue claiming both - from characters who belong to that club and advertise it, so they should have a clue). The whole concept and the neccessary equipment look much too complicated and expensive for a wide-spread tavern game in a medieval era (even if the world knows magic). What sense does it make to center the theme of some decks around enemies, even recent ones and those that normal people would probably never had heard about (So how could anyone have made a card about them)? And then the founders or masters just camp in the wilderness their whole life because someone might pass by and demand to play cards with them...?!

At that point, realism and lore don't matter anymore and it could just as well be TES Legends.

Yeah, plus, there are nearly always ways to get around lore if you really want to .

They could do what is suggested in the first post, and use the 'someone was able to foretell the future' and make the cards.

They could explain that the people who came up with the cards were making fictional characters for this game (and lorewise, we wouldn't know. We haven't been to Vvardenfall just before the eruption of Red Mountain, nor dealt with the Oblivion crisis, or had the Skyrim Civil war yet.)

Shoot, couldn't they use a 'dragon break' like event and have it where some time in the future, something happened and it sent packs of cards into the past and scattered them all over Tamriel?

If it is something they really don't want to do, sure, why not have new cards based upon characters that are known at this time? There isn't any shortage of characters, and it would be really interesting to get some of that lore in game and maybe expand on some of the characters we hear about, but don't really know a lot about (such as some of the rulers) They could also make up new characters.

TheImperfect · October 1

I'd like Elder Scrolls: Castles to be able to be linked to ESO so you can get rewards in either game from playing them. I have to say it's very addictive.
I'd also like a character viewer app for ESO, to offline look at your characters or show people but it's not the highest priority, just something that would be nice. I'd prefer the game be worked on as priority though.

TDVM · October 1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

"The lore will not be a problem"? Do you realize that Legends is set in the far future as compared to ESO?

In the P.S I pointed out why this would not be a problem, please read more carefully than writing comments of this nature

Syldras · October 1

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, plus, there are nearly always ways to get around lore if you really want to .
They could do what is suggested in the first post, and use the 'someone was able to foretell the future' and make the cards.

They could make the whole thing a weird vision after staring into an Elder Scroll

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Shoot, couldn't they use a 'dragon break' like event and have it where some time in the future, something happened and it sent packs of cards into the past and scattered them all over Tamriel?

They don't even need a dragon break for that, now that suddenly scribing items appear in random boxes. As well as Azandar's notes, for whatever reason (I won't complain, but it doesn't really make any sense).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

If it is something they really don't want to do, sure, why not have new cards based upon characters that are known at this time?

I wish they had rather done that than creating ToT.

JemadarofCaerSalis · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, plus, there are nearly always ways to get around lore if you really want to .
They could do what is suggested in the first post, and use the 'someone was able to foretell the future' and make the cards.

They could make the whole thing a weird vision after staring into an Elder Scroll

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Shoot, couldn't they use a 'dragon break' like event and have it where some time in the future, something happened and it sent packs of cards into the past and scattered them all over Tamriel?

They don't even need a dragon break for that, now that suddenly scribing items appear in random boxes. As well as Azandar's notes, for whatever reason (I won't complain, but it doesn't really make any sense).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

If it is something they really don't want to do, sure, why not have new cards based upon characters that are known at this time?

I wish they had rather done that than creating ToT.

The Elder Scroll thing is a great idea!

For the dragon break thing, I just meant as an explanation as to why there are characters that haven't been born yet on the cards, not for how they got scattered across tamriel. But, yeah, there are a lot of areas where lore has to take a backseat to gameplay.

I don't really mind ToT (been a long time since I played it though, got through all the quests for solo, and then haven't touched it :P Probably should try it, though I hear it was made harder?), but it does take some getting used to.

I am nearly always of the opinion that more is better. So, instead of one or the other, give us both! I love little mini-games in larger games, because it allows me to play that game, and potentially earn money (most common reward) or other little things for a game I love, while still being able to take a break from the normal gameplay of that game.

So, being able to go 'okay, I want to go play a card battle game, but I also need to do some things in ESO' and having an option available in ESO is something I would love, and if I decide 'okay, I don't want to deal with the card battle game, so I lets go play ToT' there is still that option.

Morvan · October 1

Bruh I miss that game so much, it's really a shame they abandoned it.

Syldras · October 1

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I am nearly always of the opinion that more is better. So, instead of one or the other, give us both!

Oh, now that it's already there, I don't want it to be removed either. I'm just wondering whether Legends would have been better received than ToT. I tried to get into ToT, but in the end, I found it boring somehow (While I still play Legends regularly - how many years is it now since release?), and I had the impression that many other players aren't really fond of it either.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I love little mini-games in larger games, because it allows me to play that game, and potentially earn money (most common reward) or other little things for a game I love, while still being able to take a break from the normal gameplay of that game.

There have always been requests to made the game furnishings into actual minigames. Also, it would be easy to add different dice games. I think it wouldn't be bad - although I don't want it to become the main feature of a release, and there's probably much more urgent things to do right now.

Aliyavana · October 1

TheBardAtTheInn wrote: »

An issue with Legends is that a large chunk of the cards are characters and people that won't exist for close to a thousand years from now. They'd have to be removed or replaced for it to make sense in the Second Era.

eso features books that shouldnt exist until the future thanks to libraries like gandaren pulling books from across time. a similar thing can be done with the cards.

SeaGtGruff · October 1

Syldras wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

"The lore will not be a problem"? Do you realize that Legends is set in the far future as compared to ESO?

To be fair, ToT is nonsensical as well. Not even the NPCs know whether the game is brand new or ages old (there's dialogue claiming both - from characters who belong to that club and advertise it, so they should have a clue). The whole concept and the neccessary equipment look much too complicated and expensive for a wide-spread tavern game in a medieval era (even if the world knows magic). What sense does it make to center the theme of some decks around enemies, even recent ones and those that normal people would probably never had heard about (So how could anyone have made a card about them)? And then the founders or masters just camp in the wilderness their whole life because someone might pass by and demand to play cards with them...?!

At that point, realism and lore don't matter anymore and it could just as well be TES Legends.

The necessary equipment? What is so Nirn-shatteringly complicated and expensive about a table, a cloth with stuff sewn on it, a deck of cards, and an hour glass? I have seen that comment mentioned before in these forums, and I gotta say, I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now. Take a look around Tamriel at all of the sophisticated architecture, exquisite furniture, fine art, etc., and tell me again exactly what is so incredibly too-advanced-for-Tamrielic-society about a card table, a table cloth, a deck of cards, and an hour glass?

Syldras · October 2

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

The necessary equipment? What is so Nirn-shatteringly complicated and expensive about a table, a cloth with stuff sewn on it, a deck of cards, and an hour glass? I have seen that comment mentioned before in these forums, and I gotta say, I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now. Take a look around Tamriel at all of the sophisticated architecture, exquisite furniture, fine art, etc., and tell me again exactly what is so incredibly too-advanced-for-Tamrielic-society about a card table, a table cloth, a deck of cards, and an hour glass?

Considering your wording, I'm not sure whether I should take the time for a serious answer, but I will in case anyone else might be interested in this: It's not mainly about missing technology (of course everyone with a piece of parchment, ink and some drawing utensil could produce some kind of "playing card"), it's about the efforts and costs. Even with magic, we're talking about a pseudo-medieval fantasy world.

For a long time, paper was quite expensive. Paper machines weren't a thing until 1800, the process to make paper before that was a bigger effort. And then you have to consider that there are no means of printing. The first woodcut prints came up around 1500, but were still very uncommon back then. They got a little more common a century later. Although for the print quality you see on the ToT cards, you'd probably need other techniques like copperplate printing or lithography at least. Both weren't a thing until around 1800. So you'd probably have to paint all these cards by hand, which is a big effort for some simple tavern game, especially considering how complex the pictures are and how many different ones there are. Then you also have the enameled patron token which also seem quite elaborate and would also be costly to produce. That's just not the thing that would be common for a widely available tavern game. The typical games in the Middle Ages were dice games for a reason. Very simple, very cheap, all that you needed were some dice that even a layman could carve from bone or wood.

That expensive furniture exists doesn't change a thing about that. Ancient Rome also had expensive furniture, great architecture, extensive painted murals - they still had no printing presses.

JemadarofCaerSalis · October 2

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I am nearly always of the opinion that more is better. So, instead of one or the other, give us both!

Oh, now that it's already there, I don't want it to be removed either. I'm just wondering whether Legends would have been better received than ToT. I tried to get into ToT, but in the end, I found it boring somehow (While I still play Legends regularly - how many years is it now since release?), and I had the impression that many other players aren't really fond of it either.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I love little mini-games in larger games, because it allows me to play that game, and potentially earn money (most common reward) or other little things for a game I love, while still being able to take a break from the normal gameplay of that game.

There have always been requests to made the game furnishings into actual minigames. Also, it would be easy to add different dice games. I think it wouldn't be bad - although I don't want it to become the main feature of a release, and there's probably much more urgent things to do right now.

I would love more mini-games.

I wonder if they did multiple mini-games as the main feature would it be better recieved?

Like, different types of dice games (there are a ton of them), maybe some darts type games, some more card games (not just elaborate ones like ToT or legends, but simpler things like hearts/spades, or some sort of cribbage like clone), with maybe some other types of games, such as board (I mean, we have wood and some way to draw on it, why wouldn't someone have come up with some sort of board game?) or lawn games. There are also tile games that could be utilized.

Basically, give a wide variety of simpler games that don't need a lot of unique artwork (all the dice games could use the same dice, generic card games could use the same cards and so on) nor a lot of intricate rules (most of them would already have established rules). Give us things like gaming halls (I am pretty sure there are a lot of houses that we can't get into in various places that could be converted).

Then, after they release the games, they could give us ways to customize them (go on quests to get unique dice skins, different card backs and faces etc..)

Plus, they could also add furnishings that would allow people to play solo games, such as solitaire (along with furnishings to be able to play the other games in house)

They could even have Legends be the main 'draw' of the update and add a lot of other games along with it.

If they don't think it would be well recieved as the main feature of a chapter, then perhaps they could do it in a different update, or just sprinkle the games in with other updates?

Syldras · October 2

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I would love more mini-games.
I wonder if they did multiple mini-games as the main feature would it be better recieved?

Good question. I certainly would have found it more interesting and if there are several to choose from, the chance to have something for different tastes would have been bigger. With only 1 card game, it's hit or miss. Then again some people aren't interested in mini games altogether.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Like, different types of dice games (there are a ton of them), maybe some darts type games, some more card games (not just elaborate ones like ToT or legends, but simpler things like hearts/spades, or some sort of cribbage like clone), with maybe some other types of games, such as board (I mean, we have wood and some way to draw on it, why wouldn't someone have come up with some sort of board game?) or lawn games. There are also tile games that could be utilized.
Basically, give a wide variety of simpler games that don't need a lot of unique artwork (all the dice games could use the same dice, generic card games could use the same cards and so on) nor a lot of intricate rules (most of them would already have established rules). Give us things like gaming halls (I am pretty sure there are a lot of houses that we can't get into in various places that could be converted).

When someone once suggested introducing tavern games, I thought of something like this, yes.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

If they don't think it would be well recieved as the main feature of a chapter, then perhaps they could do it in a different update, or just sprinkle the games in with other updates?

Considering what this year's "big housing update" was, one dice game would probably become the new big quartal update feature

I'm not sure what to expect for the next years, considering the content reductions we have seen, really.

katanagirl1 · October 2

I think it’s ironic that players asked for tavern games to bring some life into them, and the card game only sends you there to play npcs and your character actually vanishes from the game while playing. Playing against other players is via queuing for a separate instance outside of the game.

So not much action actually happening in the taverns.

Ph1p · October 2

Bringing Legends into ESO would be significant effort for probably little gain, except that some people could then access an already free-to-play game from within ESO. In return, you'd have to:

Convince the powers that be why splitting the Legend player base in two is a good idea
Create a convincing business case that the incremental Legends revenue from ESO players is worth the investment
Reactivate the previous team that worked on it and/or transfer knowledge, assets, people to ZOS
Port Legends onto ESO and integrate it into its engine, gameplay, crown store, etc.
Adjust Legends for it to make sense within the timeline ESO is set in
Adjust Legends to fit the graphic style of ESO
Maintain two different versions of Legends for the foreseeable future

SeaGtGruff · October 2

Syldras wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

The necessary equipment? What is so Nirn-shatteringly complicated and expensive about a table, a cloth with stuff sewn on it, a deck of cards, and an hour glass? I have seen that comment mentioned before in these forums, and I gotta say, I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now. Take a look around Tamriel at all of the sophisticated architecture, exquisite furniture, fine art, etc., and tell me again exactly what is so incredibly too-advanced-for-Tamrielic-society about a card table, a table cloth, a deck of cards, and an hour glass?

Considering your wording, I'm not sure whether I should take the time for a serious answer, but I will in case anyone else might be interested in this: It's not mainly about missing technology (of course everyone with a piece of parchment, ink and some drawing utensil could produce some kind of "playing card"), it's about the efforts and costs. Even with magic, we're talking about a pseudo-medieval fantasy world.

For a long time, paper was quite expensive. Paper machines weren't a thing until 1800, the process to make paper before that was a bigger effort. And then you have to consider that there are no means of printing. The first woodcut prints came up around 1500, but were still very uncommon back then. They got a little more common a century later. Although for the print quality you see on the ToT cards, you'd probably need other techniques like copperplate printing or lithography at least. Both weren't a thing until around 1800. So you'd probably have to paint all these cards by hand, which is a big effort for some simple tavern game, especially considering how complex the pictures are and how many different ones there are. Then you also have the enameled patron token which also seem quite elaborate and would also be costly to produce. That's just not the thing that would be common for a widely available tavern game. The typical games in the Middle Ages were dice games for a reason. Very simple, very cheap, all that you needed were some dice that even a layman could carve from bone or wood.

That expensive furniture exists doesn't change a thing about that. Ancient Rome also had expensive furniture, great architecture, extensive painted murals - they still had no printing presses.

None of that sways me from my belief that this is a ridiculous criticism whenever I see someone make it.

Paper and printing presses? What about all of those books filling all of those bookshelves all over Tamriel?

The patron tokens?

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree. You can't compare a fantasy world to a similar-looking historical period of the real world because you can't assume that all of the technological advances in the fantasy world followed the same developmental sequence and timeline as in the real world.

Also, if these arguments are intended to show why Tales of Tribute shouldn't have been added to ESO (as several players have argued before in these forums), then they should apply equally to the Legends card game which those same people want the devs to add to ESO.

Artim_X · October 2

Tales of Tribute rule set is easier to balance, since both players have access to the same cards.

Personofsecrets · October 2

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'd like Elder Scrolls: Castles to be able to be linked to ESO so you can get rewards in either game from playing them. I have to say it's very addictive.
I'd also like a character viewer app for ESO, to offline look at your characters or show people but it's not the highest priority, just something that would be nice. I'd prefer the game be worked on as priority though.

Yea, it's a big miss that there isn't this compatibility. Elder Scrolls Legends only ever had one cross promotion with ESO and that was for the Doom Wolf Mount. Requests for that mount plagued the TESL forums, so it's not like ESO players were not paying attention. Maybe some of them could have enjoyed TESL if they had the incentive structure to join it.

I'm surprised that the argonian trapped in an egg pet wasn't free as some kind of promotion with Castles. I was surprised by it's cheap crown cost. Maybe that is the best they could do? Weird!

Personofsecrets · October 2

Ph1p wrote: »

Bringing Legends into ESO would be significant effort for probably little gain, except that some people could then access an already free-to-play game from within ESO. In return, you'd have to:
Convince the powers that be why splitting the Legend player base in two is a good idea

Create a convincing business case that the incremental Legends revenue from ESO players is worth the investment

Reactivate the previous team that worked on it and/or transfer knowledge, assets, people to ZOS

Port Legends onto ESO and integrate it into its engine, gameplay, crown store, etc.

Adjust Legends for it to make sense within the timeline ESO is set in

Adjust Legends to fit the graphic style of ESO

Maintain two different versions of Legends for the foreseeable future

Some of them were nice enough, but for the love of all that is good, don't reactivate the previous team. They couldn't even be bothered to correctly word Lyris Titanborn and were smug when asked about it!