ForumSavant wrote: »
You'll help me stay on topic after you were the one who changed topic to begin with? Hilarious. Not here to argue semantics yet that's what your entire earlier comment was, funny when things get pointed out and the argument falls apart. Maybe don't make things up in an attempt to get your point across?
False. Perhaps you missed it? @BardInSolitude made a bold claim saying that ballgroups were an intended behavior by the devs when they designed Cyro. I disagreed and produced an argument with evidence to support the argument.
If you don't think my evidence backs up my argument, then by all means, argue against it and provide evidence of your own to support it. It's just that you have yet to do that. You're focused on me saying a word that you don't like. That's fine. Arguing over what "exploit" means doesn't seem like a beneficial use of time because ultimately, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not married to the word and I gave you an alternate interpretation of it. It seems like it triggered you. That wasn't my intention.ForumSavant wrote: »Since you still want to be passive aggressive for zero reason, aside from the fact that you got called out for making stuff up, here, I will help you get up to speed and stay on topic. Just because a group of people kill you, that does not make that inherently unbalance. This is an MMO, it is intended for people to play together if they want. The nerf was warranted, it was over performing.
This is a strawman. That's not my stance here and I haven't said that. I don't get killed by ballgroups because I choose to ignore them. However, that choice doesn't mean there's some inherent right for ballgroup behavior to continue. People are here asking the devs to reconsider their choices in removing a tool that is proven to be effective against ballgroups. You clearly disagree and that's fine. They're not here to change your mind. They're here to change the dev's mind.
I'm not arguing for there to not be grouping in this game. I'm arguing against the claim that the devs designed Cyro with current ballgroup behavior in mind.
My comments here are pretty plainly directed to @BardInSolitude, since I quoted them. You wanted to join in, as you're welcome to, since this is a public forum. However, do stay on topic, otherwise I'll just ignore you. This will be my last reply to you, so as to not derail the topic. I'd be happy to continue debating the argument at hand if you'd like to participate in it, however.
ForumSavant wrote: »
Your entire comment history on the thread is a strawman.
ForumSavant wrote: »The AB nerf was warranted, it was overpowered, hence why it was nerfed.
ForumSavant wrote: »You can make another build with another set. The reason people are so upset about the nerf is because they were so reliant on AB because it was so overpowered.
Synapsis123 wrote: »Due to all the pugs using it, it probably created more lag than a ball group ever could've hoped to. For that reason alone, good riddance. The set was also super overpowered against everyone in pvp. The tooltip on mine is around 12k. Due to the scaling starting with a single person, that meant that that it is hitting for 19.2k before mitigation against 2 players. This set is absurd. I think the set would've been okay in pvp if they had left the base damage but removed the scaling. With how high the scaling is in its current form, it is basically doing the same damage as vicious death but without having to kill anyone. Also, it is counting as single target damage so it bypasses minor and major evasion. There are so many problems with this set its better that it is just removed from pvp.
acastanza_ESO wrote: »To counter the dev comment, Plaguebreak does NOT fill the same niche, not at all. The entire point of Azureblight in PVP is that it is, literally, the only thing in the game capable of outputting enough damage to counter the absurd 60k+ shield stacks of Ballgroups that scribing and additional shield sets have enabled. Plaguebreak does NOTHING to this because the damage scaling is so inadequate that they can easily outshield it if it even manages to proc (they don't bother to purge it because it's damage is so pitiful, and they don't proc it by dying because the entire problem is that they can output so much disgusting shielding that they literally can never die).
acastanza_ESO wrote: »To counter the dev comment, Plaguebreak does NOT fill the same niche, not at all. The entire point of Azureblight in PVP is that it is, literally, the only thing in the game capable of outputting enough damage to counter the absurd 60k+ shield stacks of Ballgroups that scribing and additional shield sets have enabled. Plaguebreak does NOTHING to this because the damage scaling is so inadequate that they can easily outshield it if it even manages to proc (they don't bother to purge it because it's damage is so pitiful, and they don't proc it by dying because the entire problem is that they can output so much disgusting shielding that they literally can never die).
I remember back when Plaguebreak was a great set to use against ball groups
Someone posted this on the forums a long time ago... https://streamable.com/9kbyis
Azureblight is also a pretty good tool on PvE for classes that lack AoE damage, nerfing Azureblight is pretty much a hit against DPS in nearly every PvE setting, it will affect damage, class and set diversity.
If the feedback on this gets ignored and azureblight goes on live the state it is it will just show that nothing was learned from patch U35.
Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
and for a bonus, 2 more WRs from this patch (MoL and AS)
This post is getting LIT.
Anyways, yea arcanist is easy, which makes content more accessible to begginers or even first trifecta groups. But the nerfs done to it in recent updates made it fall down a bit, and opened way to more class diversity in endgame roasters. (Maybe apart from Lucent Citadel due to how the Xoryn fight and the knot run mechanics fit in perfectly with the arcanist kit, but that fight can also be played by stacking a bunch of Necromancers)
haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
Thank you for skipping right past the point of this, which was that the reason for people bringing arcanists is about the construction of the content, and nerfing azureblight further shuts other classes out of contention.
Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
Thank you for skipping right past the point of this, which was that the reason for people bringing arcanists is about the construction of the content, and nerfing azureblight further shuts other classes out of contention.
What did you think I meant when I said arcanists are the meta?
Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »haleysarahw wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »If classes are underperforming, a set shouldn't be the solution.
I agree, but getting rid of their only tool to catch up before giving said solution isn't going to of be any help either, nerfing azureblight will only increase the need of spamming arcanists in trials even more.
Arcanists were already the meta even with azureblight. The only reason you brought other classes were for the unique buffs.
I'm sorry but this comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the PvE scene. Pound for pound in endgame PvE, DK still has the highest ceiling.
The issue with the proposed azureblight nerf for PvE as it stands is about fight construction. With more recent trial mechanics leveraging ad waves and multi-target priority as a way to make fights dynamic versus creating interesting single target mechanics, having sets to be able to appropriate handle those fights is paramount to success.
The comments people have made about more appropriately set balancing are relevant - but the current proposed nerf makes this set unusable and yes, does force groups into taking classes that have more foundational cleave into the content that requires cleave - i.e., more arcanists.
You should let all the top leaderboard score runners know they're doing it wrong bringing 7-8 arcanists. I'm sure you could easily topple their scores.
Thank you for skipping right past the point of this, which was that the reason for people bringing arcanists is about the construction of the content, and nerfing azureblight further shuts other classes out of contention.
What did you think I meant when I said arcanists are the meta?
We should be going off the correct score leaderboards and not previous patches. It doesn't make any sense to delve into the past when we are talking about the current meta. There are 7 classes in the game and a total of 12 people in the trials so we should expect each class to be represented at about 1.7 of their class per trial.
On the correct EU leaderboards the top groups are bringing about 4.8 arcanists to each trial. That is over double what we would expect to see if the classes were represented equally. Two of the groups brought 8 arcanists. The lowest number was 2 arcanists which is still above average.
When a class is almost triple the number of expected representation does that constitute a meta?
Also the screenshots you posted included 4 arcanists in the groups. Still way above average. I guess you were trying to prove my point?