Templar change is so niche im not sure it'll be used xD

JonesFPS

You added a taunt to toppling charge .... a taunt !!! Who is asking for this nonsense ? Its also a charged ability. Who on earth.... its like adding a taunt to Accelerate/Channeled Accelaration.
Why on earth should i choose toplling charge as a taunt ? This ability has 0 utility for a templar tank. Why would i use this instead of other taunts ? Maybe a roleplayer will have his 5 minutes with it, clearly a majority of templars are RP'ers *wink wink*.

Why are we getting changes to abilitys no one is asking for ? And the changes people clearly want are getting ignored ? Why did we get a hideous jabs animation when the previous one was perfectly fine (well not perfectly but far ahead of what we have now). Why are guys trying to force something on the Templar which the Templar clearly is not ... a Tank. ( compared to other classes like a DK). Its like working only on your weaknesses while ignoring your strenghts, you become "meh". This is what the templar has become. A pile of boring "meh" with an ugly spammable and nothing really unique to it.

PS: speaking from the PVE perspective/ Even tho a taunt in PVP is even more useless (correct me if im wrong)

notReclaimer

Toppling charge is not a charged ability, and now you can taunt with your gap closer & major protection proc. Should think a bit before making long posts like this.

Marto

There's plenty of fights in the game where the tank being able to rush to an important target is far better than just walking to poke it.

Major protection is a really good and somewhat rare buff.

Ask yourself this, instead: If your group already has a source of major/minor breach, why would your templar tank use puncture? Other than the reduced cost, it is the objectively inferior skill.

I've been seeing a lot of criticism like this in the forums lately, whenever ZOS adds new buffs and functionality to underutilized skills."Oh why did you buff this skill? No one uses it." Yeah why do you think no one uses it.

I think it's very unproductive and unhelpful.

ArctosCethlenn

There are a lot of times where I'd like to be able to run my class gap closer and interrupt as a DD, *without* taunting enemies at the same time.

edit: if anything only one morph should have a taunt, like chains of devastation vs unrelenting grip.

JonesFPS

Well then, tell me how this change will replace any of the existing taunts ? major protection can be gained by other sources(if even needed), without losing the benefit of your current taunts. As i said it'll be niche at best. Even tho you're right with that it is not a charged ability ( my fault for not checking properly),but my argument remains the same because it'll be as usefull as putting a taunt on Channeled Accelaration. In which fight do i need a gap closing taunt which cant be handled by ranged taunts or other abilitys where having toppling charge outweighs the benefits of for example piercing armor or frost clenche ?
So in which scenario would i choose toppling charge over piercing armor or destructive/frost clenche ?
Oh and dont get me started on how well a templar tank performs in mobile fights. This skill is not just nonsense its contradictory to the templars tanking tools (if you can call them like that).

Changes like this are nothing but wasted time that could be spent on meaningful changes.

tsaescishoeshiner

I use Focused Charge as a DPS for fights that need interrupts, so I find this change disappointing and unhelpful. It's nice that Templar tanks are getting some attention though, and I see how the Major Protection + taunt could replace Puncture, but the gap closer element means it couldn't replace Inner Rage.

If we needed a charge taunt, there would be a taunt morph of Shield Charge.

JonesFPS

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I use Focused Charge as a DPS for fights that need interrupts, so I find this change disappointing and unhelpful. It's nice that Templar tanks are getting some attention though, and I see how the Major Protection + taunt could replace Puncture, but the gap closer element means it couldn't replace Inner Rage.

If we needed a charge taunt, there would be a taunt morph of Shield Charge.

Exactly there is the core of the problem there is almost no scenario where this would be used as a taunt apart from maybe roleplay reasons or just for "*** and giggles". In most Dungeons the incoming damage from adds and bosses is so low you dont need major protection. In the Dungeons where you take a lot of damage you're not really able to drop piercing armor or frost clench beacause of the debuffs they provide ( peircing armor also for Master S/B). In trials you rarely see templar tanks and if there is one there are just better "taunts" to use. Even if you are not the MT there are mostly adds which need a penetration debuff and if not most OT's have better Buffsetups to help the group, so wasted skillslot. Endless Archive ..... maybe, if you want to torture yourself by going in there as a templar further then arc 5.
This is what i mean the thought process behind it could've been spent in a more meaningfull way. Like working on templar passives. Giving it a decent health based selfheal (if they want to improve tanking). so much more they could've done.

ADarklore

Yeah... as a solo player... I used Explosive Charge solely as a gap closer and because it's fun to use. I mean, it's a lot more fun than... I'm going to walk up to the enemies over there and attack them... I prefer, I'm going to surprise those enemies over there by launching at them before they can spot me. Having a taunt isn't going to bother my use of it one way or another, because obviously as a solo player we tend to be the enemies focus- unless of course we have a tank companion- whose job it is to draw aggro. But in my case, the only time I use a tank companion is when I'm not going to need to launch myself across the area to attack.

Luke_Flamesword

One morph should be focused around tanks and it can have taunt, other should be more more useful for damage - remove taunt and protection, add some juicy damage and everyone will be happy.

Just_Attivi

As someone who templar tanked/fake tanked/DPS'd/tanked again in dungeons for a few years, I can say it would be nice to have a tool in the templar toolkit for taunting (i played around with that taunt set and explosive charge for a bit, it was fun).

that said, it SHOULD NOT be toppling charge. Toppling charge is a reliable stun/gap closer/interrupt. Yes, I get it that it gives major prot and tanks are slow blah blah blah. how often do tanks want to stun on a gap close? in my experience, you usually want to taunt and wrangle things up, and once things are wrangled, stun/CC/whatever. meaning putting things on CC immunity via your gap closer is counter intuitive.

I mostly pvp now, so the changes to taunts really dont effect me. but I can see this 'added utility' to a skill that was given adjustments pretty much for pvp, taking away the good parts of it later down the road (oh, since its a taunt, and taunts are powerful, we dont need toppling to stun/interrupt/major prot/do damage/be useful, its a taunt now! cant have TEMPLAR be too powerful now)

Reverb

I actually like this change but I agree that it should be base ability and one morph. Leave one morph option for people who want it without the taunt.

Joy_Division

Marto wrote: »

There's plenty of fights in the game where the tank being able to rush to an important target is far better than just walking to poke it.

Major protection is a really good and somewhat rare buff.

Ask yourself this, instead: If your group already has a source of major/minor breach, why would your templar tank use puncture? Other than the reduced cost, it is the objectively inferior skill.

I've been seeing a lot of criticism like this in the forums lately, whenever ZOS adds new buffs and functionality to underutilized skills."Oh why did you buff this skill? No one uses it." Yeah why do you think no one uses it.

I think it's very unproductive and unhelpful.

Disagree.

When I DPS and heal, I do not want the tank charging away from the group to go to an enemy. I want the tank staying put and pulling the enemy to the group. That's how PvP tanks have been doing it for ten years and that is how they will continue doing it after the update.

If the argument is, "I will remain stationary and just use Charge as I would Puncture," ok, I guess, but this means a DPS can never use this skill (as a ranged interrupt or movement skill for example) because it will mess up the tank's taunts. Once any sort of taunt is put on a skill, a non tank can't use it in group play (e.g., old Ice Staffs who could not heavy attack when low on magicka). Putting taunts on skills should be done rarely and for a good reason because of this.

I will not disagree that having major protection is nice. But it's just that: nice. Not necessary. DKs have zero skills that give them major protection. They have always been amazing tanks. Self sourced major protection is not needed at all. If it was, Flare is always an option. It's not something by itself that is going to make the Templar tank suddenly a superior option or provide something useful that other classes who are already better tanks can't do.

Putting a taunt on Charge also locks out any potential future changes to the skill that might better suit Templars. Tanks do not need to charge. A DPS in PvP might want to charge. Now because the Templar Charge skill is considered a tank skill, the Templar PvP DPS is now stuck with a skill that is not meant for their role. We have major protection now and melee templar PvP is still unappealing. I would much prefer if the devs added offensive capabilities to the Charge skill,.

ZOS's crusade to make Templar tanks more popular will continue because slapping on some news buffs to mediocre skills isn't addressing the core issues. ZOS should absolutely receive critical feedback in situations such as this.

Aggrovious

ZOS should look at Toppling Charge as well and have a clear difference between the two morphs. Explosive was always better so it is frustrating that I will be taunting bosses away from my tank or be forced to just not use the skill

ArctosCethlenn

Now that I've thought about it more, no morph of charge should have a taunt.

For one, as I and others have said, if charge taunts no non-tank can ever use the skill again in pve.

Nobody wants their tank to suddenly yeet himself off into the distance to die alone while the group jogs after him to catch up.

Nobody wants their tank to charge off to taunt a mob, causing the boss to turn to chase him and force everyone to reposition because now the dragon's various aoes are hitting different locations that used to be safe.

All the taunt will do is prevent non-tanks from using the skill, and tanks will still choose the taunt options that won't get themselves or others killed.

ArctosCethlenn

What about replacing Radiant Aura with a taunt, since that's been a largely dead skill for years? something like

Radiant Challenge

Sear a target with light for x magic damage, burning them and applying minor magickasteal for 15 seconds. Taunts them for 15 seconds if they are not already taunted.

On cast, nearby group members gain minor intellect, minor endurance, and minor fortitude for 30 seconds.

Anti_Virus

Why don’t ZOS make changes to the Dawn’s Wrath skill line for tanks instead of slapping on tank abilities in the Damage skill line?

Solar flare and Sun fire are terrible skills right now, just make one of them taunt instead

boi_anachronism_

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

There are a lot of times where I'd like to be able to run my class gap closer and interrupt as a DD, *without* taunting enemies at the same time.

edit: if anything only one morph should have a taunt, like chains of devastation vs unrelenting grip.

^^^^^^THIS