Class comparison

Bushido2513

bladenick wrote: »

For NB, kill is not problem, it almost get highest burst damage, it even more if with proc such as Glass shatter set.


It easy build just focu on damage, the difficult part how to suvive when you detected or even worst under detect, once you consider the defense, you need balance defend, sustain and offence, then you will find your burst damage can not kill most well-round build

It's not really a problem if you build correctly and have good situational awareness. High crit damage and crit chance works well with layered heals and timed burst. The burst is then more about putting it together correctly and switching up your attack as needed.

Cloak should be a buff tool and sometimes an escape tool but not otherwise essential. Players that lean on cloak are usually just not the best nbs overall

LittlePinkDot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Nb are at least killable when you catch them, sorcs on the other have are in world of their own right now and are hard carried by ward/steak and the ridiculous DMG they can spam at you from half the map away.

It's funny because they both are capable of same things it's just easier to tank on a sorc. If you kill a NB it's just a bad NB not because they lack the kit to be tanky and have crazy burst.

But they do lack the kit to be tanky....
You would have to wear nibenay monster helm, Mara's balm, dark cloak for minor protection... And some other tanky set I can't think of right now...maybe meridians blessed armour... use a scribed skill with fencers parry....hmmm might be onto something here 🤣

I got this little Stam wood elf that's just a crafter. Maybe I should turn her into the tiniest troll tank ever.

Some think tanky and automatically jump to resistances/damage mitigation and just being able to take a hit without your health moving much. I like to think of tanky as just your health bar not moving much as you take damage. For a NB this can be done with layered heals and by leaning into crit or by using something like SSC. If you hit a NB using these techniques you might find yourself asking how they can both take and deal so much damage. Of course this isn't as easy as hitting one or two buttons like in sorc lol

Literally never seen such a thing. They're all squishy, every single one of them on PlayStation.

LittlePinkDot

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Everyone is at the max speed cap from various methods. Even using a gap closer doesn't necessarily mean you will hit your target with your next attack, (assuming you have the bar space for a gap closer)..and if you can hit it once you may not be able to hit it twice. There's a whole other post here complaining about too much movement speed in PvP, and they're probably right.

I'm really failing to see how you aren't able to hit concealed unless you are trying to play with 500+ ping (I play with 300+ ping and still reliably hit concealed, even against good players and sorcs/other NBs, and it's even easier when cloaking in)...

With cloak it is insanely easy to get into melee range without being spotted unless you are either in a 1v1 duel or you are repeatedly ganking the same target every 2 seconds basically screaming to your target that you are right there on top of them and not moving around properly and are extremely easy to kill if they use a detect pot. This is why melee NB is still so strong compared to melee on any other class, it gets to ignore the downside of having to close the gap while being targeted down.

Hate to say it, but everything you have described sounds simply like a skill issue or playstyle conflict where you are not playing NB to its strengths or you are playing and building for complete opposite things.

As for that other thread on speed cap, NBs are the biggest offenders of abusing the speed cap thanks to the permanent uptime on minor expedition granted from concealed being on either bar. I don't think anybody truly realizes just how broken having that is in this game.

The thing with speed cap on other classes is that other classes actually have to work to get to that cap using active abilities with costs (even sorcs need to). None of the other classes have any sort of passive speed in their kits and even sorc (the supposed speed class) needs to use active abilities and also choose between major or minor expedition in its class kit (assuming it runs lightning form at all due to chudan being objectively better for magsorc) because those 2 buffs are on different morphs of the same skill.

Note: I am fine with NB having speed, but it should be dependent on being in stealth like it used to be, not just passively/free and all the time like it currently is.

You have to hit with power extraction or another skill that gives major brutality first before you use concealed weapon, or you won't have major brutality on when you attack.

TechMaybeHic

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Everyone is at the max speed cap from various methods. Even using a gap closer doesn't necessarily mean you will hit your target with your next attack, (assuming you have the bar space for a gap closer)..and if you can hit it once you may not be able to hit it twice. There's a whole other post here complaining about too much movement speed in PvP, and they're probably right.

I'm really failing to see how you aren't able to hit concealed unless you are trying to play with 500+ ping (I play with 300+ ping and still reliably hit concealed, even against good players and sorcs/other NBs, and it's even easier when cloaking in)...

With cloak it is insanely easy to get into melee range without being spotted unless you are either in a 1v1 duel or you are repeatedly ganking the same target every 2 seconds basically screaming to your target that you are right there on top of them and not moving around properly and are extremely easy to kill if they use a detect pot. This is why melee NB is still so strong compared to melee on any other class, it gets to ignore the downside of having to close the gap while being targeted down.

Hate to say it, but everything you have described sounds simply like a skill issue or playstyle conflict where you are not playing NB to its strengths or you are playing and building for complete opposite things.

As for that other thread on speed cap, NBs are the biggest offenders of abusing the speed cap thanks to the permanent uptime on minor expedition granted from concealed being on either bar. I don't think anybody truly realizes just how broken having that is in this game.

The thing with speed cap on other classes is that other classes actually have to work to get to that cap using active abilities with costs (even sorcs need to). None of the other classes have any sort of passive speed in their kits and even sorc (the supposed speed class) needs to use active abilities and also choose between major or minor expedition in its class kit (assuming it runs lightning form at all due to chudan being objectively better for magsorc) because those 2 buffs are on different morphs of the same skill.

Note: I am fine with NB having speed, but it should be dependent on being in stealth like it used to be, not just passively/free and all the time like it currently is.

You have to hit with power extraction or another skill that gives major brutality first before you use concealed weapon, or you won't have major brutality on when you attack.

Use weapon or spell power pots. Or skills like rally don't pop you out. Maybe a scribing skill is out there that will work

bladenick

Bushido2513 wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

For NB, kill is not problem, it almost get highest burst damage, it even more if with proc such as Glass shatter set.


It easy build just focu on damage, the difficult part how to suvive when you detected or even worst under detect, once you consider the defense, you need balance defend, sustain and offence, then you will find your burst damage can not kill most well-round build

It's not really a problem if you build correctly and have good situational awareness. High crit damage and crit chance works well with layered heals and timed burst. The burst is then more about putting it together correctly and switching up your attack as needed.

Cloak should be a buff tool and sometimes an escape tool but not otherwise essential. Players that lean on cloak are usually just not the best nbs overall

it really problem... really.. with undeath nerfed. it dead very quickly once get chasing by detect pot,

this force you either investigate on speed or on defense to survival in that senario... as pre U43. 30% undeath really helped alot for burst healing... it alway save you.. but now with undeath nerfed. game changed

The most significant difference after U43 is the time you can sustain under 25% health is dramatic decrease... that hurt a lot for build relied on burst healing.. actually I feel sorc is most benefit from Undeath nerf as they get burst healing + shield in one skill

Syiccal

Unless your a sorc and can hit one of 2 buttons for.your survival

LittlePinkDot

Yes I find sorc very difficult to fight against.
Much more so than Nightblade.

I think I'm actually going to try out my idea for my old Stam NB that's been collecting dust because there's no class change token.

I'm going to try to make her a tank with dark cloak. Nibenay monster helm, way of fire, and meridia's blessed armour. Bow front bar with poison injection to proc way of fire, and sword and board back bar.

Bushido2513

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Nb are at least killable when you catch them, sorcs on the other have are in world of their own right now and are hard carried by ward/steak and the ridiculous DMG they can spam at you from half the map away.

It's funny because they both are capable of same things it's just easier to tank on a sorc. If you kill a NB it's just a bad NB not because they lack the kit to be tanky and have crazy burst.

But they do lack the kit to be tanky....
You would have to wear nibenay monster helm, Mara's balm, dark cloak for minor protection... And some other tanky set I can't think of right now...maybe meridians blessed armour... use a scribed skill with fencers parry....hmmm might be onto something here 🤣

I got this little Stam wood elf that's just a crafter. Maybe I should turn her into the tiniest troll tank ever.

Some think tanky and automatically jump to resistances/damage mitigation and just being able to take a hit without your health moving much. I like to think of tanky as just your health bar not moving much as you take damage. For a NB this can be done with layered heals and by leaning into crit or by using something like SSC. If you hit a NB using these techniques you might find yourself asking how they can both take and deal so much damage. Of course this isn't as easy as hitting one or two buttons like in sorc lol

Literally never seen such a thing. They're all squishy, every single one of them on PlayStation.

I admit they are rare and that's kind of a good thing but they definitely exist. It just takes an exceptional grasp of the class which you d don't see as often vs your gankers or low effort players.

The other day I did a lot of kills in a bg, my MMR is as high as it gets. Someone asked my build and I just let them know my build isn't at all high damage or interesting, it's just how I pilot it.

Bushido2513

bladenick wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

For NB, kill is not problem, it almost get highest burst damage, it even more if with proc such as Glass shatter set.


It easy build just focu on damage, the difficult part how to suvive when you detected or even worst under detect, once you consider the defense, you need balance defend, sustain and offence, then you will find your burst damage can not kill most well-round build

It's not really a problem if you build correctly and have good situational awareness. High crit damage and crit chance works well with layered heals and timed burst. The burst is then more about putting it together correctly and switching up your attack as needed.

Cloak should be a buff tool and sometimes an escape tool but not otherwise essential. Players that lean on cloak are usually just not the best nbs overall

it really problem... really.. with undeath nerfed. it dead very quickly once get chasing by detect pot,

this force you either investigate on speed or on defense to survival in that senario... as pre U43. 30% undeath really helped alot for burst healing... it alway save you.. but now with undeath nerfed. game changed

The most significant difference after U43 is the time you can sustain under 25% health is dramatic decrease... that hurt a lot for build relied on burst healing.. actually I feel sorc is most benefit from Undeath nerf as they get burst healing + shield in one skill

Well this is where things like build, proper blocking, maybe using shade, etc come into play. For instance NB has a passive or skill to help with roll dodge cost, then there's a skill that decreases their damage while boosting yours.

I'm not saying it's easy but far just that it's in the kit.

Bushido2513

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Yes I find sorc very difficult to fight against.
Much more so than Nightblade.

I think I'm actually going to try out my idea for my old Stam NB that's been collecting dust because there's no class change token.

I'm going to try to make her a tank with dark cloak. Nibenay monster helm, way of fire, and meridia's blessed armour. Bow front bar with poison injection to proc way of fire, and sword and board back bar.

I think you're going to find it's hard to make something like that work on NB these days. Even at the best time of NB a build like that was tough to make work. Good luck though!

LittlePinkDot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Nb are at least killable when you catch them, sorcs on the other have are in world of their own right now and are hard carried by ward/steak and the ridiculous DMG they can spam at you from half the map away.

It's funny because they both are capable of same things it's just easier to tank on a sorc. If you kill a NB it's just a bad NB not because they lack the kit to be tanky and have crazy burst.

But they do lack the kit to be tanky....
You would have to wear nibenay monster helm, Mara's balm, dark cloak for minor protection... And some other tanky set I can't think of right now...maybe meridians blessed armour... use a scribed skill with fencers parry....hmmm might be onto something here 🤣

I got this little Stam wood elf that's just a crafter. Maybe I should turn her into the tiniest troll tank ever.

Some think tanky and automatically jump to resistances/damage mitigation and just being able to take a hit without your health moving much. I like to think of tanky as just your health bar not moving much as you take damage. For a NB this can be done with layered heals and by leaning into crit or by using something like SSC. If you hit a NB using these techniques you might find yourself asking how they can both take and deal so much damage. Of course this isn't as easy as hitting one or two buttons like in sorc lol

Literally never seen such a thing. They're all squishy, every single one of them on PlayStation.

I admit they are rare and that's kind of a good thing but they definitely exist. It just takes an exceptional grasp of the class which you d don't see as often vs your gankers or low effort players.

The other day I did a lot of kills in a bg, my MMR is as high as it gets. Someone asked my build and I just let them know my build isn't at all high damage or interesting, it's just how I pilot it.

That's probably why ZoS keeps buffing NB. They're not accessible for the majority of players. I heard they suck in PVE as a DPS too.

As for my Stam NB, if I'm already having trouble sustaining cloak on my mag NB, there's no reason to try to do the same thing on a stam NB that would obviously be even worse. I'll use Ambush to try to close the gap then use power extraction into Surprise attack then poison injection.

I'll use the new and improved defensive stance for a nice shield that reduces the cost of block and increases the dmg that can be blocked.
I would love to try shield throw but I don't have the gold for the Grimoire. Dark cloak gives permanent minor protection on slotted either bar.

Might as well try something different. If being tanky works for other classes I don't see why it can't work for NB.

Bushido2513

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Nb are at least killable when you catch them, sorcs on the other have are in world of their own right now and are hard carried by ward/steak and the ridiculous DMG they can spam at you from half the map away.

It's funny because they both are capable of same things it's just easier to tank on a sorc. If you kill a NB it's just a bad NB not because they lack the kit to be tanky and have crazy burst.

But they do lack the kit to be tanky....
You would have to wear nibenay monster helm, Mara's balm, dark cloak for minor protection... And some other tanky set I can't think of right now...maybe meridians blessed armour... use a scribed skill with fencers parry....hmmm might be onto something here 🤣

I got this little Stam wood elf that's just a crafter. Maybe I should turn her into the tiniest troll tank ever.

Some think tanky and automatically jump to resistances/damage mitigation and just being able to take a hit without your health moving much. I like to think of tanky as just your health bar not moving much as you take damage. For a NB this can be done with layered heals and by leaning into crit or by using something like SSC. If you hit a NB using these techniques you might find yourself asking how they can both take and deal so much damage. Of course this isn't as easy as hitting one or two buttons like in sorc lol

Literally never seen such a thing. They're all squishy, every single one of them on PlayStation.

I admit they are rare and that's kind of a good thing but they definitely exist. It just takes an exceptional grasp of the class which you d don't see as often vs your gankers or low effort players.

The other day I did a lot of kills in a bg, my MMR is as high as it gets. Someone asked my build and I just let them know my build isn't at all high damage or interesting, it's just how I pilot it.

That's probably why ZoS keeps buffing NB. They're not accessible for the majority of players. I heard they suck in PVE as a DPS too.

As for my Stam NB, if I'm already having trouble sustaining cloak on my mag NB, there's no reason to try to do the same thing on a stam NB that would obviously be even worse. I'll use Ambush to try to close the gap then use power extraction into Surprise attack then poison injection.

I'll use the new and improved defensive stance for a nice shield that reduces the cost of block and increases the dmg that can be blocked.
I would love to try shield throw but I don't have the gold for the Grimoire. Dark cloak gives permanent minor protection on slotted either bar.

Might as well try something different. If being tanky works for other classes I don't see why it can't work for NB.

Tanks usually have a few requirements, healing and mitigation. Other classes can do it because they have healing skills that scale with health. NB is so geared towards single target damage and damage in general that you don't get a lot of support for being a tank. It's doable but ymmv

LittlePinkDot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Nb are at least killable when you catch them, sorcs on the other have are in world of their own right now and are hard carried by ward/steak and the ridiculous DMG they can spam at you from half the map away.

It's funny because they both are capable of same things it's just easier to tank on a sorc. If you kill a NB it's just a bad NB not because they lack the kit to be tanky and have crazy burst.

But they do lack the kit to be tanky....
You would have to wear nibenay monster helm, Mara's balm, dark cloak for minor protection... And some other tanky set I can't think of right now...maybe meridians blessed armour... use a scribed skill with fencers parry....hmmm might be onto something here 🤣

I got this little Stam wood elf that's just a crafter. Maybe I should turn her into the tiniest troll tank ever.

Some think tanky and automatically jump to resistances/damage mitigation and just being able to take a hit without your health moving much. I like to think of tanky as just your health bar not moving much as you take damage. For a NB this can be done with layered heals and by leaning into crit or by using something like SSC. If you hit a NB using these techniques you might find yourself asking how they can both take and deal so much damage. Of course this isn't as easy as hitting one or two buttons like in sorc lol

Literally never seen such a thing. They're all squishy, every single one of them on PlayStation.

I admit they are rare and that's kind of a good thing but they definitely exist. It just takes an exceptional grasp of the class which you d don't see as often vs your gankers or low effort players.

The other day I did a lot of kills in a bg, my MMR is as high as it gets. Someone asked my build and I just let them know my build isn't at all high damage or interesting, it's just how I pilot it.

That's probably why ZoS keeps buffing NB. They're not accessible for the majority of players. I heard they suck in PVE as a DPS too.

As for my Stam NB, if I'm already having trouble sustaining cloak on my mag NB, there's no reason to try to do the same thing on a stam NB that would obviously be even worse. I'll use Ambush to try to close the gap then use power extraction into Surprise attack then poison injection.

I'll use the new and improved defensive stance for a nice shield that reduces the cost of block and increases the dmg that can be blocked.
I would love to try shield throw but I don't have the gold for the Grimoire. Dark cloak gives permanent minor protection on slotted either bar.

Might as well try something different. If being tanky works for other classes I don't see why it can't work for NB.

Tanks usually have a few requirements, healing and mitigation. Other classes can do it because they have healing skills that scale with health. NB is so geared towards single target damage and damage in general that you don't get a lot of support for being a tank. It's doable but ymmv

Dark cloak heal scales with health.

bladenick

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Nb are at least killable when you catch them, sorcs on the other have are in world of their own right now and are hard carried by ward/steak and the ridiculous DMG they can spam at you from half the map away.

It's funny because they both are capable of same things it's just easier to tank on a sorc. If you kill a NB it's just a bad NB not because they lack the kit to be tanky and have crazy burst.

But they do lack the kit to be tanky....
You would have to wear nibenay monster helm, Mara's balm, dark cloak for minor protection... And some other tanky set I can't think of right now...maybe meridians blessed armour... use a scribed skill with fencers parry....hmmm might be onto something here 🤣

I got this little Stam wood elf that's just a crafter. Maybe I should turn her into the tiniest troll tank ever.

Some think tanky and automatically jump to resistances/damage mitigation and just being able to take a hit without your health moving much. I like to think of tanky as just your health bar not moving much as you take damage. For a NB this can be done with layered heals and by leaning into crit or by using something like SSC. If you hit a NB using these techniques you might find yourself asking how they can both take and deal so much damage. Of course this isn't as easy as hitting one or two buttons like in sorc lol

Literally never seen such a thing. They're all squishy, every single one of them on PlayStation.

I admit they are rare and that's kind of a good thing but they definitely exist. It just takes an exceptional grasp of the class which you d don't see as often vs your gankers or low effort players.

The other day I did a lot of kills in a bg, my MMR is as high as it gets. Someone asked my build and I just let them know my build isn't at all high damage or interesting, it's just how I pilot it.

That's probably why ZoS keeps buffing NB. They're not accessible for the majority of players. I heard they suck in PVE as a DPS too.

As for my Stam NB, if I'm already having trouble sustaining cloak on my mag NB, there's no reason to try to do the same thing on a stam NB that would obviously be even worse. I'll use Ambush to try to close the gap then use power extraction into Surprise attack then poison injection.

I'll use the new and improved defensive stance for a nice shield that reduces the cost of block and increases the dmg that can be blocked.
I would love to try shield throw but I don't have the gold for the Grimoire. Dark cloak gives permanent minor protection on slotted either bar.

Might as well try something different. If being tanky works for other classes I don't see why it can't work for NB.

Tanks usually have a few requirements, healing and mitigation. Other classes can do it because they have healing skills that scale with health. NB is so geared towards single target damage and damage in general that you don't get a lot of support for being a tank. It's doable but ymmv

Dark cloak heal scales with health.

NB tanker is worst tank ever, difficult to sustain

MEBengalsFan2001

Game is broken plain and simple. Proc sets out damaging skills, some classes have no name buffs that provide additional damage that are top damaging classes. New gear design to help specific classes in pvp etc… break free mechanics not working properly, hard cc effects can by pass immunity and ruin any player day. Ball group causing a drop in server performance, ball groups in general, classes being imbalanced, etc, etc, etc….

Honestly glad I am doing other things currently. Game just needs to much updating to be better in both pve and pvp.

Syiccal

Ball groups are impossible to deal with, they will always be a thing as long as players can group up so it's not worth mentioning in terms of PVP imo. The problem right now is 1 class in particular is streets ahead of the others without a single acknowledgement from the devs even though it's the most talked about subject in the forums and everyone knows it

LittlePinkDot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Yes I find sorc very difficult to fight against.
Much more so than Nightblade.

I think I'm actually going to try out my idea for my old Stam NB that's been collecting dust because there's no class change token.

I'm going to try to make her a tank with dark cloak. Nibenay monster helm, way of fire, and meridia's blessed armour. Bow front bar with poison injection to proc way of fire, and sword and board back bar.

I think you're going to find it's hard to make something like that work on NB these days. Even at the best time of NB a build like that was tough to make work. Good luck though!

Just wanted to give an update. Just trialed my new tanky Stam NB build in Battlegrounds. I already like it better than my mag NB. She can brawl face to face with DK.
I went with Daedric trickery instead of Meridia's Blessed armour.
Way of fire set is great. And happy with the Ambush gap closer.
Even though I made her tanky she still does good damage even with only a little over 3000 weapon spell damage before major brutality....it must be because of NB passives and good offensive skills. My Templar needs over 6000 weapon/spell damage to do the kind of damage this NB is doing.
I can get more merciless resolve bow procs off since she can stay alive long enough to brawl for it.
My only gripe is her sustain is a bit lacking, good thing she's a wood elf. I wanted to use Crit potions for major savagery, but it turns out that I need to use tri-pots for sustain and can't drop those. Her Magicka sustain is a bit difficult for a stam character. I wish dark cloak was a stamina skill.
I have room to experiment, I could drop mass hysteria for siphoning attacks, but then I won't have a fear/stun..it's on the back bar anyway so maybe I don't need it. My mundus is currently the shadow, but I wonder if the warrior would be better considering she only has minor savagery and no major.

Her ultimate generation is insane, especially with major heroism from Daedric trickery. She can incap faster than I've seen any other character pull off ultimates.

I'm not sure which damage reduction stats stack additive or multiplicative, but with minor and major protection plus 5% and 3% damage reduction from players from Nibenay monster helm and shield and sword of Potentates that would be 23% damage reduction assuming those all stack additively.

I like the tanky brawling playstyle much better.

Major_Toughness

Syiccal wrote: »

Ball groups are impossible to deal with, they will always be a thing as long as players can group up so it's not worth mentioning in terms of PVP imo. The problem right now is 1 class in particular is streets ahead of the others without a single acknowledgement from the devs even though it's the most talked about subject in the forums and everyone knows it

Yeah Magsorc is outrageously strong right now.

DrSlaughtr

Syiccal wrote: »

So I'm playing Templar not long after jumping on my nb and dk, and I can't help but feel like where is my major prophesy while slotted on either bar, where is my 1.2 min long major sorcery.
How come my "burst" ability doesn't tool tips for 20k+ like my nb ( higher than any of the ults I have available on any of my classes.)
What's was even more funny is that my nbs offering tool tips higher than my Templar with same set up lol
And on top the class sustain is not even close, got work so much harder for it

Not every class should be great at every niche play style. This only leads to imbalances, especially when adding significant damage to classes that already have high survivability out of the box. Templars are a pressure damage dealer which is why they have such high survivability. You cannot just give them the same bursts as a blade and pretend like this wouldn't cause a significant problems.

Syiccal

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So I'm playing Templar not long after jumping on my nb and dk, and I can't help but feel like where is my major prophesy while slotted on either bar, where is my 1.2 min long major sorcery.
How come my "burst" ability doesn't tool tips for 20k+ like my nb ( higher than any of the ults I have available on any of my classes.)
What's was even more funny is that my nbs offering tool tips higher than my Templar with same set up lol
And on top the class sustain is not even close, got work so much harder for it

Not every class should be great at every niche play style. This only leads to imbalances, especially when adding significant damage to classes that already have high survivability out of the box. Templars are a pressure damage dealer which is why they have such high survivability. You cannot just give them the same bursts as a blade and pretend like this wouldn't cause a significant problems.

I agree but then nbs shouldn't thave such good healing either, and sorcs shouldn't be able to face tank groups of players.

LittlePinkDot

All classes have to be able to do all roles in PVE. DPS, healer and tank.

Syiccal

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

All classes have to be able to do all roles in PVE. DPS, healer and tank.

And that's half the problem, they want any class to be able to play role which is fine until they give certain classes better tools than what they should have..
Can you imagine the uproar if they decided to give coag or Honour the dead a 15k shield on top as that's what my sorc has. In PVP I have 14k shield and a 10k heal which is ridiculous.
Templar has good heals yet cannot have a decent burst skill which is why backlash has been nerfed to it almost being pointless l, yet nb has imo better defence yet gets a burst ability that hits harder than any other skill in the game.

TechMaybeHic

Syiccal wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

All classes have to be able to do all roles in PVE. DPS, healer and tank.

And that's half the problem, they want any class to be able to play role which is fine until they give certain classes better tools than what they should have..
Can you imagine the uproar if they decided to give coag or Honour the dead a 15k shield on top as that's what my sorc has. In PVP I have 14k shield and a 10k heal which is ridiculous.
Templar has good heals yet cannot have a decent burst skill which is why backlash has been nerfed to it almost being pointless l, yet nb has imo better defence yet gets a burst ability that hits harder than any other skill in the game.

Yeah if every class can do all roles, they also need equivalent utility that is really not considered with the trinity of tank, damage, heal. Power is shifted to supplemental things like sustain, mobility, utility, or bar space efficiency. They have not touched much of this on the weaker classes

LittlePinkDot

Syiccal wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

All classes have to be able to do all roles in PVE. DPS, healer and tank.

And that's half the problem, they want any class to be able to play role which is fine until they give certain classes better tools than what they should have..
Can you imagine the uproar if they decided to give coag or Honour the dead a 15k shield on top as that's what my sorc has. In PVP I have 14k shield and a 10k heal which is ridiculous.
Templar has good heals yet cannot have a decent burst skill which is why backlash has been nerfed to it almost being pointless l, yet nb has imo better defence yet gets a burst ability that hits harder than any other skill in the game.

So far I'm loving my tanky Dark Cloak Stam NB... Don't need invisibility at all. Only thing I miss is major savagery.

The sorc problem would be easily solved by making hardened ward scale only with health. And it wouldn't hurt PVE tank sorc at all since tanks should have their points into health anyway.

DrSlaughtr

Syiccal wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

So I'm playing Templar not long after jumping on my nb and dk, and I can't help but feel like where is my major prophesy while slotted on either bar, where is my 1.2 min long major sorcery.
How come my "burst" ability doesn't tool tips for 20k+ like my nb ( higher than any of the ults I have available on any of my classes.)
What's was even more funny is that my nbs offering tool tips higher than my Templar with same set up lol
And on top the class sustain is not even close, got work so much harder for it

Not every class should be great at every niche play style. This only leads to imbalances, especially when adding significant damage to classes that already have high survivability out of the box. Templars are a pressure damage dealer which is why they have such high survivability. You cannot just give them the same bursts as a blade and pretend like this wouldn't cause a significant problems.

I agree but then nbs shouldn't thave such good healing either, and sorcs shouldn't be able to face tank groups of players.

Their main heal (Malevolent Offering) is not any better than any other class burst heal. For example, it has the same base heal as Rushed Ceremony while ALSO taking away health. So both have a base heal of 3486, but Malevolent Offering eats 1080 of that over 3 seconds.

The only difference is nightblades tend to have higher damage and/or higher crit, which then increases the heal burst. Outside of Malevolent Offering, NB self heals are reliant on doing damage, which can be ineffective if you're trying to work in the shadows.

I don't even use the class heal. I use healing soul.

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

All classes have to be able to do all roles in PVE. DPS, healer and tank.

All classes can do all roles. Some are just better at specific playstyles than others. Gankenstein put a video up the other day ganking on a necro and just ripping people apart as well as any NB. I think there is an expectation that you should be able to do every style on every class equally well and there is no way to make that work. Not to mention the fact that class identity should matter.

Alchimiste1

Sorc shield is broken, ranged procs shouldn’t be a thing, jabs still suck, range damage in general sucks to deal with. Classes should be balanced around their class kit/skills and not what sets work best for them


Hybridization was a mistake.

Syiccal

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Sorc shield is broken, ranged procs shouldn’t be a thing, jabs still suck, range damage in general sucks to deal with. Classes should be balanced around their class kit/skills and not what sets work best for them


Hybridization was a mistake.

I think they almost do try to do that with their spreadsheet of numbers, the problems are that the spreadsheet of numbers for DMG etc don't seem to take into account the class kit as a whole.
Sorcs with the best mobility and ranged offence in the game didn't need a heal on par with Templar or dk that are immobile but because the spreadsheet said their heal was non existent they were given one to match and balance the books if you like.

Second I'm sure the devs don't take into account sets and what players can dream up with them to max out stats, exploit etc etc

StaticWave

I just find it funny that my stamsorc with 35k resists and 4.4k crit resist is as tanky as a magsorc in 20k resist and 1.5k crit resist lol.

DoT DKs still broken, Acuity Warden still broken, NB still super annoying, jesus beam plar still annoying, javelin + meteor plar still broken, i could go on.

Syiccal

StaticWave wrote: »

I just find it funny that my stamsorc with 35k resists and 4.4k crit resist is as tanky as a magsorc in 20k resist and 1.5k crit resist lol.

DoT DKs still broken, Acuity Warden still broken, NB still super annoying, jesus beam plar still annoying, javelin + meteor plar still broken, i could go on.

To be fair javelin,meteor combo shouldn't be killing you. It only kills ppl that don't know it's coming/already weakend or try to block it.

Cherryreo

templar with zaan has insane pressure in duel.
essence thief+rallying cry+zaan+ssc