Grandmaster Crafting Stations

Lumsdenml · August 27

This may sound elitist, but I kinda want the Grandmastet Crafting Stations to only be accessible by Grandmaster Crafters. A lot of time and gold go into that achievement for just the title....

Necrotech_Master · August 27

that would probably defeat the point of them being QoL for guilds to consolidate hundreds of crafting stations into single units

i will never go back to a sea of crafting tables, that was horrible

wolfie1.0. · August 27

As in to be able to use them?

Nope, completely disagree.

Also that achievement since AWA isn't as difficult as you think it is.

Lumsdenml · August 27

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As in to be able to use them?

Nope, completely disagree.

Also that achievement since AWA isn't as difficult as you think it is.

Yeah, that's probably true. I remember doing it before AWA and it was a long and expensive process!

Artim_X · August 27

I disagree. Guildies who cannot be bothered to max out crafting should not be denied access. If your suggestion was implemented houses that are just a sea of crafting station would come back in full swing.

wolfie1.0. · August 27

Lumsdenml wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As in to be able to use them?

Nope, completely disagree.

Also that achievement since AWA isn't as difficult as you think it is.

Yeah, that's probably true. I remember doing it before AWA and it was a long and expensive process!

Ya well with AWA every character contributes and the boxes you have to check to unlock it can be done pretty easily within a few days. No crown investment needed, and with not as much gold as pre awa.

So the achievement, like many others post awa is actually not worth all that much. And is very very easy to achieve. And honestly easy achievements arnt really achievements they are check boxes.

Edit: for example 50 motif unlocks is 6 characters learning all blue motifs. 100 recipes can be completed by just learning the ones needed for every tier crafting writ. Research requirements can be spread through 8 different characters... etc etc.

Necrotech_Master · August 27

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As in to be able to use them?

Nope, completely disagree.

Also that achievement since AWA isn't as difficult as you think it is.

Yeah, that's probably true. I remember doing it before AWA and it was a long and expensive process!

Ya well with AWA every character contributes and the boxes you have to check to unlock it can be done pretty easily within a few days. No crown investment needed, and with not as much gold as pre awa.

So the achievement, like many others post awa is actually not worth all that much. And is very very easy to achieve. And honestly easy achievements arnt really achievements they are check boxes.

Edit: for example 50 motif unlocks is 6 characters learning all blue motifs. 100 recipes can be completed by just learning the ones needed for every tier crafting writ. Research requirements can be spread through 8 different characters... etc etc.

i did it before AWA and i dont think there was that much gold cost to it, the only time there was a little bit of gold cost was if you were buying nirncrux items to research, or if you were trying to collect motifs/recipes faster

theres no doubt that its significantly faster/cheaper to do now, especially because its a lot easier to find nirncrux items (i remember back in the day trading nirn items with others because at the time very few people had any nirn research done right after upper crag released, and completing that storyline was the only way to get nirn research items)

DoofusMax · August 27

Aside from the snobbery factor, I'm having a real hard time justifying someone being required to learn 100 recipes, learn all the Alchemy reagent effects, translate all the Potency runes, and learn 50 styles to be able to buy what is essentially a container for attunable crafting stations, and stations that have nothing to do with Provisioning, Alchemy, or Enchanting at that. I could kinda see learning all 9 traits on all the Blacksmithing gear and do X-number Blacksmithing Master Writs to buy the Blacksmithing Station (and something similar for Clothing, Jewelry, and Woodworking), but there's no existing achievements for traits-learned by craft (except Jewelry) or for Master Writs by craft. So locking the stations behind an existing 100-Writ achievement was very likely much easier to implement than new achievements. I still laugh when one of my toons procs one of those new Survey achievements, like they hadn't already done a few thousand surveys before U43.

Wuduwasa13 · August 27

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This may sound elitist, but I kinda want the Grandmastet Crafting Stations to only be accessible by Grandmaster Crafters. A lot of time and gold go into that achievement for just the title....

No. Just no. Thank you.

katanagirl1 · August 28

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

robpr · August 28

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

You have to have Grandmaster Crafter to buy them, but the suggestion is for requiring GMC to be able to use them.

LalMirchi · August 28

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This may sound elitist, but I kinda want the Grandmastet Crafting Stations to only be accessible by Grandmaster Crafters. A lot of time and gold go into that achievement for just the title....

I disagree with this suggestion. No thanks.

thorwyn · August 28

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

For the same reason as why every Joe Schmo can buy a professional power drill from the local hardware store and every Janette Schmo can buy a Steinway.

DenverRalphy · August 28

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

Because technically a fully functioning station requires a Grand Master Crafter to build one? After all, you can't fully load it up with without one right?

TaSheen · August 28

robpr wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

You have to have Grandmaster Crafter to buy them, but the suggestion is for requiring GMC to be able to use them.

No - only needs Unsurpassed Crafter - complete 100 master writs.

valenwood_vegan · August 28

If I'm understanding the suggestion correctly, it's that only grandmaster crafters can even *use* the stations?

A big part of the point of the stations was as a QoL update so guilds (and players with such houses too) could do away with those gigantic rooms full of attunable stations, that took up most of the furnishing slots in the house. If most players could not use the new stations, guilds in particular would have to go back to that.

I wouldn't change back for my own house, as there's no way I'm putting that amount of gold and effort in again, but it would mean that many of my friends could no longer use my house for crafting. I worked very hard to collect the attunables and set up my house *so that* my friends and others could use it. Soooo no thanks.

TaSheen · August 28

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

If I'm understanding the suggestion correctly, it's that only grandmaster crafters can even *use* the stations?

A big part of the point of the stations was as a QoL update so guilds (and players with such houses too) could do away with those gigantic rooms full of attunable stations, that took up most of the furnishing slots in the house. If most players could not use the new stations, guilds in particular would have to go back to that.

I wouldn't change back for my own house, as there's no way I'm putting that amount of gold and effort in again, but it would mean that many of my friends could no longer use my house for crafting. I worked very hard to collect the attunables and set up my house *so that* my friends and others could use it. Soooo no thanks.

Yes, that's what the OP was suggesting. So not a good idea....

Ezhh · August 28

The stations would instantly lose a huge part of their value if this happened.

As a guildmaster on my main server, would I then be expected to have TWO sets of all attunable stations for members and friends to use? I definitely don't want people left out because they didn't happen to buy x number of motifs yet, but the cost (and number of slots) needed for both options would be an insane undertaking.

From another point of view, I also play on and off on a second server to spend time with and help out some friends. Should I be denied the ability to craft myself gear there and become a burden on them by having to ask them to craft for me?

It would just push more crafting requests onto those who have done the work already and might not want the hassle. Reverse of quality of life on all sides in my opinion.

coop500 · August 28

This is such a cursed thread lol

Vaqual · August 28

From an RP perspective it doesn't make sense at all. If you get hooked up with the best tools, why would your character be struggling to perform the same as on generic crafting stations?

DenverRalphy · August 28

Vaqual wrote: »

From an RP perspective it doesn't make sense at all. If you get hooked up with the best tools, why would your character be struggling to perform the same as on generic crafting stations?

Cuz equipment doesn't provide the skill/knowledge. An amateur golfer can use Tiger Woods' golf clubs. Doesn't mean he can play as good as Tiger.

katanagirl1 · August 28

robpr wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

You have to have Grandmaster Crafter to buy them, but the suggestion is for requiring GMC to be able to use them.

Oh, yeah definitely no on that one. Sorry I misunderstood.

virtus753 · August 28

DenverRalphy wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

Because technically a fully functioning station requires a Grand Master Crafter to build one? After all, you can't fully load it up with without one right?

What about GMC is required to build or load a master station? I don't recall that being a requirement on live.

Originally you needed GMC to buy the master stations on the PTS, but based on feedback they changed it to Unsurpassed Crafter in the very first incremental in that cycle.

There are no requirements to be able to attune a station except being able to get to the place where it's located in game. (You can't attune stations from attuned ones. It must be an original.) Sometimes that means having DLC access or control of a town in Cyrodiil, but it's not locked by your own crafting knowledge or achievements.

DenverRalphy · August 28

virtus753 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Why are they called Grandmaster Crafting stations if you don’t have to be a Grandmaster Crafter to buy them?

They need to change the name then.

Because technically a fully functioning station requires a Grand Master Crafter to build one? After all, you can't fully load it up with without one right?

What about GMC is required to build or load a master station? I don't recall that being a requirement on live.

Originally you needed GMC to buy the master stations on the PTS, but based on feedback they changed it to Unsurpassed Crafter in the very first incremental in that cycle.

There are no requirements to be able to attune a station except being able to get to the place where it's located in game. (You can't attune stations from attuned ones. It must be an original.) Sometimes that means having DLC access or control of a town in Cyrodiil, but it's not locked by your own crafting knowledge or achievements.

Yeah, I realized that after I'd posted it. Got sidetracked and didn't bother to edit it.

But hey, still can't get full functionality out of it without having researched all traits. So there's that I guess.

wolfie1.0. · August 28

Quite honestly, just getting enough vouchers from start to finish is more of a barrier to entry vs any actual achievement. 86,000+ vouchers from the start isn't exactly a cheap nor a fast process to obtain. And then having to go to each site and collect them, also have all of the chapters/dlcs for it...

There are reasons that these are usually guild endeavors and not for most casual players to obtain.

TaSheen · August 28

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Quite honestly, just getting enough vouchers from start to finish is more of a barrier to entry vs any actual achievement. 86,000+ vouchers from the start isn't exactly a cheap nor a fast process to obtain. And then having to go to each site and collect them, also have all of the chapters/dlcs for it...

There are reasons that these are usually guild endeavors and not for most casual players to obtain.

True I guess. Though on 3 of my accounts, I already had so many crafting stations, I wasn't about to ignore the GM stations just because they were expensive. However - I don't need ALL the crafting stations. I just get the ones that are a PITA to get to, or require fighting one's way toward. So I get a new set every once in a while, when I've got the vouchers for attunables. I just picked up one of the Deadlands ones on my main account EU.

I feed attunables to the accounts with the GM stations from my other accounts as they have enough vouchers for them. It's not such a huge thing for me since I don't want or need every crafting station out there.

Nharimlur_Finor · August 28

Without a purchased copy of Summerset or ESOPlus, you can't access jewellery stations for anything, regardless of what traits that you may have learned if you had a previous subscription.

Yet you can go to another player's home and have access to all crafting tables for every other Chapter that you don't own. You don't even have to do any work to have access to them. Some guild members may have contributed; most won't have.

But yeah, why should players that don't have GMC have any access to this station at all? Why should players have access to any tables where they haven't paid for the zone access?

Alternately, why can't I use jewellery crafting stations?

It's all a bit unbalanced.

quinancia · August 29

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Quite honestly, just getting enough vouchers from start to finish is more of a barrier to entry vs any actual achievement. 86,000+ vouchers from the start isn't exactly a cheap nor a fast process to obtain. And then having to go to each site and collect them, also have all of the chapters/dlcs for it...

There are reasons that these are usually guild endeavors and not for most casual players to obtain.

I did this earlier this year. Getting the vouchers takes time. Probably more than a year. I don't know. I just noticed that I had a lot and decided to push it and get enough for the stations. Tuning the stations, honestly, goes a lot faster than I imagined.

joergino · August 29

It certainly took me more than a year after I had started trying to get the vouchers for all the stations and I did this completely by myself. But I didn't do it just for myself. My intention was to help a small streamer make her little guild a bit more attractive for others to join.

It was all in vain, of course, because by now only one player from those days can still be seen in the game regularly and everybody else left. Even the streamer only returns for the new chapters.

For me, making the grandmaster stations only available to grandmaster crafters is a bizarre idea. First, the motivation appears to be rather mean-spirited. And second, I believe it is rather pointless anyway because the people actually using a grandmaster crafting station are very likely to be master crafters in the first place, especially considering the fact that motif knowledge is counted across a player's entire account and thus the most expensive of the required achievements isn't as expensive anymore as it used to be when I and most likely many other crafters had to hunt down missing motif pages in our beloved decentralized guild store system.

Vaqual · August 29

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

From an RP perspective it doesn't make sense at all. If you get hooked up with the best tools, why would your character be struggling to perform the same as on generic crafting stations?

Cuz equipment doesn't provide the skill/knowledge. An amateur golfer can use Tiger Woods' golf clubs. Doesn't mean he can play as good as Tiger.

Yes, and I didn't write that. I said the character should simply be able to do, what he can do on any workstation. Which is the case. I shouldn't have to repeat that, just read it properly.

Grizzbeorn · August 29

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This may sound elitist, but I kinda want the Grandmastet Crafting Stations to only be accessible by Grandmaster Crafters. A lot of time and gold go into that achievement for just the title....

Stop.