Can you report someone in game for their behavior out of game?

AlienSlof

Hapexamendios wrote: »

If you don't like his comments, ignore them. Publicity is what they are seeking so don't draw attention to it.

This.

Just don't watch his BS. Don't give him time of day if you don't like his content. If he can't come up with something better himself, he's not worth the effort.

I put my 6 finished homes up for viewing; they're nothing outstanding, but they're how I like them. Unlikely that they will draw any attention, there's nothing special in there except that they're full of cats!

alpha_synuclein

Lugaldu wrote: »

There's another thing that bothers me about the whole story: assuming I take part in Housing Tours and open up my houses, I would do that as part of the game. To interact with the community in-game. But it would bother me extremely if someone else then made videos of my houses and presented them on some other platform. Sure, you could say that by participating in Housing Tours I am making my content available to the public, but the basic idea is that I am doing this for the in-game community and not for use by others on platforms outside of the game. And it's even worse when these people then use the content for their own financial gain.
For me there are more than enough reasons not to take part in Housing Tours.

You can end up on a stream or in a video by playing in any part if the game available to others. And iirc everything on our accounts is a property of zos. We have no actual rights to any of the things we create in game. Respecting privacy here is just courtesy.

Idelise

IMHO, there's a difference between criticism, unsolicited criticism, and having your creations used as a stepping stone in someone else's career.
It would be the same if, as an artist - you listed your artwork on a platform like Deviantart, only to have it used by some scumbag Twitch streamer who criticises or live 'fixes' your art. You did not ask for any of it, you wanted to show your creation to others - not have it used as a popularity boost of someone.

Also won't be partaking in Housing Tours.

Anifaas

People looking for blood because someone said something mean about their little virtual house in a make believe game? What a time to be playing this game. Just move on and ignore it.

Northwold

Anifaas wrote: »

People looking for blood because someone said something mean about their little virtual house in a make believe game? What a time to be playing this game. Just move on and ignore it.

I'm not seeing the difference between something someone has created in game and any other creative work, to be frank.

belial5221_ESO

Would you wanna get fired from your job,cause you said something bad about items you sell in the store?Even if you said it at a diff store to someone you didn't know?Different streamers have different gimmiks to draw viewers for entertainment.Some use shock,some are nice,some are helpful,and some rude.If you don't like content,just don't keep watching it.

oldbobdude

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

It sounds like he is offering his opinion about publicly listed houses for entertainment value, in a space that you have to enter voluntarily. Why do you care?

I have no idea what kind of stuff this guy is saying, but I am pretty certain any PvP related stream/video will contain just as much provocative content.

Where does this need to police people playing video games come frome?

And in the end, de gustibus non est disputandum.

It's rude, frankly, and it discourages people from participating. I don't see any reason to tolerate or encourage poor behavior. Most of us are chill and play the game to have fun, picking apart builds and saying snarky things is mean-spirited, and while I don't see why it should be ban worthy, a warning or a temporary social ban might make it a less viable pastime.

Lol

SilverIce58

Northwold wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

People looking for blood because someone said something mean about their little virtual house in a make believe game? What a time to be playing this game. Just move on and ignore it.

I'm not seeing the difference between something someone has created in game and any other creative work, to be frank.

Mmm, you know you don't own any of this tho? Zenimax does. That's the difference. You are creating with their tools that they can take away at any time as said in their T.o.S. If you created it outside of the ESO engine, then that'd be your own property, but not if made inside. You also can't sell any of this, service or items in-game for real money as that violates the Terms, so what are you hoping to do with it?

Adaarye

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

valenwood_vegan

Adaarye wrote: »

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

The rules on *this* forum do not, as far as I'm aware, apply to outside platforms.

Adaarye

Answered my own question:

"We do not tolerate discussion that is created for the purpose of "naming-and-shaming" other users. "Naming-and-shaming" is the act of creating a discussion to call out an individual or group by name, and making them the subject of public accusation, ridicule and/or shaming."

So I guess this would be considered "ridicule".

How far the reach goes regarding this policy, I'm not sure about.

Adaarye

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Adaarye wrote: »

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

The rules on *this* forum do not, as far as I'm aware, apply to outside platforms.

How unfortunate.

Elsonso

.

Adaarye wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Adaarye wrote: »

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

The rules on *this* forum do not, as far as I'm aware, apply to outside platforms.

How unfortunate.

I suspect that ZOS has plenty to do managing their own services and what people do on those services.

I can definitely suggest a few things on their services that they can work on if they have a few spare minutes. They only need to ask me.

SeaGtGruff

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Adaarye wrote: »

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

The rules on *this* forum do not, as far as I'm aware, apply to outside platforms.

That depends on which specific rules you're talking about, because there are also in-game rules, several of which do coincide with similar rules on these forums.

Also, a few years ago the terms of agreement were updated and there were additional statements about ZOS being able to look at your other accounts-- such as Twitch, YouTube, X/Twitter, etc.-- which they would presumably only do if there were a reason to, such as investigating complaints.

So, yes, your out-of-game behavior might conceivably lead to being banned if said behavior were directed at other players and were considered egregious enough. How likely it might be is another question, but it isn't completely outside the realm of possibility. And as with everything else that involves an agreement for use of services, if you don't agree to the terms, then you are free to not use the services-- and if you break your agreement, you can have your ability to use the services revoked.

valenwood_vegan

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Adaarye wrote: »

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

The rules on *this* forum do not, as far as I'm aware, apply to outside platforms.

That depends on which specific rules you're talking about, because there are also in-game rules, several of which do coincide with similar rules on these forums.

Also, a few years ago the terms of agreement were updated and there were additional statements about ZOS being able to look at your other accounts-- such as Twitch, YouTube, X/Twitter, etc.-- which they would presumably only do if there were a reason to, such as investigating complaints.

So, yes, your out-of-game behavior might conceivably lead to being banned if said behavior were directed at other players and were considered egregious enough. How likely it might be is another question, but it isn't completely outside the realm of possibility. And as with everything else that involves an agreement for use of services, if you don't agree to the terms, then you are free to not use the services-- and if you break your agreement, you can have your ability to use the services revoked.

Ok sure, but what I responded to was a question about the "naming-and-shaming" rule, which to my knowledge is a community rule from this forum, and is not part of the eso terms of service [EDIT: It is actually part of the eso code of conduct too, to be clear].

Thus, for example, someone could not create a post on this forum naming a player and bashing or making fun of their house. My belief is that this does not strictly apply to what players might do on another platform that ZoS does not control. PvP'ers for example trash talk other pvp'ers on streams regularly. Other streamers might make rude comments about the build of a player who was in their trial. These things also wouldn't be allowed on the forum, but that doesn't necessarily mean that players can't do these things, within reason, outside of the zos ecosystem.

Some discords and guilds, etc., keep a ban-list of players who have engaged in crown trading scams or other negative behavior - this also would not be allowed on the forum under the naming and shaming rule.

Advertising for outside businesses is not allowed on the forums and in-game chat. Twitch streams, youtube videos, external sites about eso, all contain such ads. And on and on. I mean where would it end?

But these off-platform things certainly could also rise to such a serious level that zos might be inclined to investigate and act, such as threats or hate speech or targeted harassment against another player.

As I said in my earlier post, if there is a belief that someone has actually violated the terms of service, they should absolutely be reported. I do not personally believe that being critical of someone's home that they have shared using the housing tour feature is a violation to be reported or actioned, though as I said in my earlier post, there are lines that can be crossed where it likely would be.

[EDIT to add: Ultimately what I think does not matter, and purported violations should be reported to ZoS. They're the only ones who can decide whether to act.].

Elsonso

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Adaarye wrote: »

I thought ESO was anti publically "name and shame"

The rules on *this* forum do not, as far as I'm aware, apply to outside platforms.

That depends on which specific rules you're talking about, because there are also in-game rules, several of which do coincide with similar rules on these forums.

Also, a few years ago the terms of agreement were updated and there were additional statements about ZOS being able to look at your other accounts-- such as Twitch, YouTube, X/Twitter, etc.-- which they would presumably only do if there were a reason to, such as investigating complaints.

So, yes, your out-of-game behavior might conceivably lead to being banned if said behavior were directed at other players and were considered egregious enough. How likely it might be is another question, but it isn't completely outside the realm of possibility. And as with everything else that involves an agreement for use of services, if you don't agree to the terms, then you are free to not use the services-- and if you break your agreement, you can have your ability to use the services revoked.

Yeah, but this thread is mainly about "bashing". Nothing has been said by the OP to indicate that what the streamer did was anything more than "trash talk" and engagement farming. The latter is just a day that ends in Y for the average content creator.

SeaGtGruff

I'm not suggesting that the specific behavior mentioned in the OP is "actionable," but it would be up to ZOS to investigate any complaints and decide for themselves.

As for "naming-and-shaming," I suspect that it might indeed apply to other platforms, especially if it were considered to be egregious enough. And to be clear, I'm not saying I think this particular case is "egregious enough," just speaking in general. Better safe than sorry, as they say.

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L

i believe i am obligated to not offend as much as i am obligated to not take offense.

valenwood_vegan

Ah ok, I did look at the Code of Conduct out of curiosity, and the naming and shaming thing is in there too. So it actually is something more than just a "forum rule", though I still question how far-reaching it would be.

I do imagine that zos might take action for egregious off-platform behavior that involves eso.

But it would be quite something if they were to start enforcing the whole list of rules that apply to these forums, game chat, and other zos-services on players' outside behavior. I mean I guess they *could*. It's always good to be careful about what one says and shares on social media.

spartaxoxo

It's really going to depend on if you are using their services to engage in behavior like naming and shaming, I'd imagine.

Directly showing in-game screenshots, videos, live streaming the game itself are all using both ESO and whatever third party service.

Whereas, if you were just to write anonymized posts about something that happened, make your own drawing, etc. I don't think their TOS would apply. But that's just my personal understanding of TOS.

Even then, their actions would be limited to their own platforms. So, they'd ban you here but your YouTube account would be safe (assuming the content doesn't also violate YT's TOS and they did not report it to YT).

ComboBreaker88

kevkj wrote: »

I report the top sellers in my guilds to the IRS every week for not reporting their in-game income.

Legend.

DenverRalphy

The Naming and Shaming policy reaches exactly as far as the Forum Moderators and In-Game GM's have the tools to take action.

The ToS authority for player conduct doesn't reach beyond the walls of the game or the forums or any virtual entity not owned and operated by ZoS.

LalMirchi

This is definitely not a question to put to a forum. If the OP regards this behavior as offensive they should report it directly to the game's proprietors who can decide to proceed if necessary.

Sheezabeast

i think a restructured version of this thread should be made in the housing channel, where you basically say something to the effect of, to people considering listing your homes, keep this in mind. then describe said stream, like showing a cautionary warning to one potential use of this new feature.

kookie

I need evidence to support my opinion... link?

SeaGtGruff

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The Naming and Shaming policy reaches exactly as far as the Forum Moderators and In-Game GM's have the tools to take action.

The ToS authority for player conduct doesn't reach beyond the walls of the game or the forums or any virtual entity not owned and operated by ZoS.

They can't take action outside the game and forums, but they could conceivably take action (i.e., issue a ban) within the game or forums for egregious behavior involving the game and other players. Again, I'm not saying this qualifies, just commenting in general with regard to the CoC and ToS.

SteveCampsOut

Actually this is not "Out of Game" behavior. If they're live streaming house tours, they're doing it while in game. Whether it's reportable or not is up to ZOS. My solutions simply to not put my homes on the Tour system. (Assuming I actually knew how to do this in the first place. I haven't bothered to look at it.)

FlopsyPrince

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

A twitch streamer is using housing tours as a way to boost his own engagement, by visiting random houses and trash talking them. The videos are also being uploaded to other social media sites. This is obviously not in the spirit of the game, but is this behavior actually reportable?

I can think of many more serious issues. The fact an audience wants this is another flaw. I wouldn't waste time on any of it.

DenverRalphy

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The Naming and Shaming policy reaches exactly as far as the Forum Moderators and In-Game GM's have the tools to take action.

The ToS authority for player conduct doesn't reach beyond the walls of the game or the forums or any virtual entity not owned and operated by ZoS.

They can't take action outside the game and forums, but they could conceivably take action (i.e., issue a ban) within the game or forums for egregious behavior involving the game and other players. Again, I'm not saying this qualifies, just commenting in general with regard to the CoC and ToS.

That's just it though. They didn't deliver any kind of "egregious behaviour" in the game or through any of the assets owned or affiliated with the game. If they were using ESO's chat channels to deliver that behavior, then that could break the TOS. Same if they used ESO's forums. But whatever it is they did or didn't do (cuz seriously nobody here other than the OP really knows what was done unless other here have tracked it down to go see it), it was delivered through a medium outside of ZoS' purview.

Now if ZoS were to decide to overstep and take action, that'd really peeve some people off. And when you're dealing with gamers and their social media streams, it's usually best not to get under their skin without a really good (and I do mean really good) reason. It's only been a couple months since the last time someone took offense at what ZoS did/does, and I'm liking the server stability just like it is. Comparitively speaking of course.

Idelise

I suppose if someone believes that the stream is breaking their ToS (like naming/shaming), they can always report/flag the person on the relevant platform.
Mind, my knowledge of how Twitch works is near zero since I don't use it.