Is this just bad luck? Or can anyone explain this?

sunandstars77 · August 16

Wow!

Soarora · August 16

Probably got hit by the AoE of a lightning heavy attack. If it’s directed at an NPC, the AoE will do damage as if you’re an NPC, wrecking you.

sunandstars77 · August 16

Soarora wrote: »

Probably got hit by the AoE of a lightning heavy attack. If it’s directed at an NPC, the AoE will do damage as if you’re an NPC, wrecking you.

Nah not buying that. When my toon has 31k hp with vigor healing me for 2.5k a tick and with rally up. And my dots healing me for up to 2k a tick.

Thanks for your input though Soarora.

xylena_lazarow · August 16

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Nah not buying that.

They're correct though. It's the Tri Focus passive AoE from a lightning heavy hitting a monster, there's a bug where Battle Spirit doesn't affect the AoE splash damage on players if the original target was a monster.

MEBengalsFan2001 · August 16

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Nah not buying that.

They're correct though. It's the Tri Focus passive AoE from a lightning heavy hitting a monster, there's a bug where Battle Spirit doesn't affect the AoE splash damage on players if the original target was a monster.

Meaning he taking 70% more damage or more from a heavy attack as most heavy attack builds get bonuses against monsters.

Aces-High-82 · August 16

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Probably got hit by the AoE of a lightning heavy attack. If it’s directed at an NPC, the AoE will do damage as if you’re an NPC, wrecking you.

Nah not buying that. When my toon has 31k hp with vigor healing me for 2.5k a tick and with rally up. And my dots healing me for up to 2k a tick.

Thanks for your input though Soarora.

Its a single damage instance. No clue why you come up with HPS.

Bushido2513 · August 16

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Probably got hit by the AoE of a lightning heavy attack. If it’s directed at an NPC, the AoE will do damage as if you’re an NPC, wrecking you.

Nah not buying that. When my toon has 31k hp with vigor healing me for 2.5k a tick and with rally up. And my dots healing me for up to 2k a tick.

Thanks for your input though Soarora.

Yes it's that's though. They were hitting a boss with probably a lightning heavy from a pve build so the numbers hitting the boss are then hitting you as part of the trifocus passive which is and has been bugged that way for a while, hitting you with pve numbers instead of what you normally get hit with if the same player heavy attacked another player standing next to you.

Remember empower deals 70 percent more damage to monsters which because of the big gets passed as is in to you. You should have taken much less than 70 percent of the damage you took.

Oh also if that player is running bloodthirsty abd the boss was low add that in, etc etc.

Point being for now try not to stand near a boss when other players are hitting it, especially if you see a heavy attacker which you should kill quickly anyways for some easy money and to get rid of the trifocus threat.

freespirit · August 16

Also if the player was wearing any of the sets that increases HA damage that is added in too!

If you do a search there are many old threads about Tri Focus being broken in IC, it's too easy to be hit by high damage numbers from "splash damage" from lightning staff heavy attacks on npcs.

I've seen ticks of my own lightning staff hit at well over 70k, you were just unlucky to get caught by one of those type of hits, with the Tri Focus passive included bouncing off a npc. 😕

CameraBeardThePirate · August 16

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Probably got hit by the AoE of a lightning heavy attack. If it’s directed at an NPC, the AoE will do damage as if you’re an NPC, wrecking you.

Nah not buying that. When my toon has 31k hp with vigor healing me for 2.5k a tick and with rally up. And my dots healing me for up to 2k a tick.

Thanks for your input though Soarora.

Not sure what you're "not buying". It's pretty straightforward.

Tri-Focus on a lightning staff copies the damage of a heavy attack to anyone near the initial target.

Heavy attack sets and Empower don't boost heavy attack damage against players, but DO boost heavy attack damage against mobs and NPCs.

Tri-Focus ignores Battlespirit.

Put all of these things together, and what do you get? Some scrub PvEr heavy attacking mobs > you stand too close to the mob > they deal 60k damage to the mob with their Heavy Attack > that damage gets copied to you because of Tri-Focus.

ZOS refuses to fix this issue.

Auldwulfe · August 16

When I first heard about this bug... I wanted to test it. Being a mid 50's military vet, I have arthritis in my hands, so my PVP is limited to what I can take, and then PVE with a heavy sorc to fill in the rest of my gaming time .....

Yes, it does work that way, although, in my opinion, it shouldn't -- now, if you REALLY want to be a sick individual, take Macabre Vintage, and a heavy attack sorc build with NO pets .... don't want a give away, and use Hardened Ward, and Vibrant Shroud, as it is a bigger heal. - throw in Vigor and it's complete...

Now, go attack resources .... You have so much healing with the Vibrant Shround as a burst heal (that also hits your target with major maim, if they just happen to be in front of you), while the Vigor is the go to HOT.
Hardened Ward is just there as a stopgap to add a little extra shield while you are using the other GCD's....

Once you are attacking resources, just wait for an opponent.... and when they can't burst you down, they will go move towards the guards to get that extra DPS against you, not realizing they have just walked into a minefield .. target the guards.... the tri-focus burst is now deadly.... and if they survive long enough off that, the Macabre Vintage burst adds misery.....

Personally, it should NOT work, but it definitely does.....
In IC, if you target any daedra, it runs over to you, and you can then use that on the person attacking you.

ANY NPC is a bomb, you just have to squeeze them a little.......

Auldwulfe

reazea · August 16

I thought ZOS said they fixed this bug like 2 years ago? Apparently not.

Necrotech_Master · August 16

reazea wrote: »

I thought ZOS said they fixed this bug like 2 years ago? Apparently not.

that change you might be thinking of is that they removed the first 2 ticks of the lightning heavy from being splashed, so only the 3rd and final hit is splashed

it made it harder to deal aoe dmg with lightning staff, but they never changed the underlying problem, which is trifocus

the only reason i can guess they have trifocus ignoring battle spirit, is if your primary target is a player, the trifocus passive would be double dipping on the battle spirit debuff (-50% dmg on the initial heavy and another -50% on the trifocus splash)

if your primary target is an NPC though, the dmg is effectively bypassing trifocus entirely

other forms of splash based on the target is also the same such as the 2h weapons passive that splashes dmg in aoe, lightning staff is just far easier to hit targets with

divnyi · August 16

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

freespirit · August 16

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

I can assure you my final Lightning Staff tick on my HA Sorc still frequently exceeds 60k in PVE so entirely possible to get that as splash damage in IC when attacking NPC's.

Soarora · August 17

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

Lightning HA does more damage now than then is my understanding, and also again, PvP vs PvE doesn't matter here. If you're in the cleave of a lightning HA that's targeting an NPC, you take the full damage as if you are also an NPC.

Sluggy · August 17

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

Because a) empower is now 70% and b) battle spirit is not active on this effect.

Aces-High-82 · August 17

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

You can get 180k HA ticks on the trial dummy with sorc. You can achive really absurd DPS on trial trash pulls.
Ofc you won't see those numbers if you just rebuild xyz YouTube vid ;D

divnyi · August 17

Sluggy wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

Because a) empower is now 70% and b) battle spirit is not active on this effect.

I made it clear that my char had molten armaments, which did independent HA buff so empower*molten roughly equals what we have now. And they remade maelstrom staff so it's no longer HA-related, you can't have 3 HA sets on a char.

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

that change you might be thinking of is that they removed the first 2 ticks of the lightning heavy from being splashed, so only the 3rd and final hit is splashed

Wait lmao this is hilarious. I'm completely sold on rebuilding HA DK to go to IC and kill people with splashes.
What's the best HA sets today? Sergeant's and Noble Duelist?

gariondavey · August 17

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Probably got hit by the AoE of a lightning heavy attack. If it’s directed at an NPC, the AoE will do damage as if you’re an NPC, wrecking you.

Nah not buying that. When my toon has 31k hp with vigor healing me for 2.5k a tick and with rally up. And my dots healing me for up to 2k a tick.

Thanks for your input though Soarora.

Nah. That is correct. A player used a lightning heavy attack on the boss and the splash damage hit you. I have a recording of someone doing this to my magden in ic who has 50k hp and 30k resists. Instant 1 shot for 60k.

Sluggy · August 18

divnyi wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

Because a) empower is now 70% and b) battle spirit is not active on this effect.

I made it clear that my char had molten armaments, which did independent HA buff so empower*molten roughly equals what we have now. And they remade maelstrom staff so it's no longer HA-related, you can't have 3 HA sets on a char.

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

that change you might be thinking of is that they removed the first 2 ticks of the lightning heavy from being splashed, so only the 3rd and final hit is splashed

Wait lmao this is hilarious. I'm completely sold on rebuilding HA DK to go to IC and kill people with splashes.
What's the best HA sets today? Sergeant's and Noble Duelist?

Well the old molten was 50%, this is a +20% boost which is stronger than like, what, 90% of all buffs out there right now. The other key point was Ignores Battlespirit. That's a 100% damage buff which is basically better than anything including Crit Damage. This patch was weird and they also made some other changes to heavy attacks at the time. There was a good four weeks on that PTS cycle where the Resto Staff was the DPS weapon of choice... ... ... Endgame trials being done with a full raid using nothing but onebar heavy-attack-only resto staff builds.

sunandstars77 · August 19

Thanks for all the input guys. I wasn't even aware a bug like this existed. So you can understand the reason for my inital disbelief that such a bug couuld occour and not be patched.

Cheers

Sun.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 19

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Thanks for all the input guys. I wasn't even aware a bug like this existed. So you can understand the reason for my inital disbelief that such a bug couuld occour and not be patched.

Cheers

Sun.

Yep, it's really frustrating that ZOS doesn't seem to care enough about PvP to fix this bug.

katorga · August 20

A 55K final tick on a lightning heavy attack is normal in pve.

xylena_lazarow · August 20

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Yep, it's really frustrating that ZOS doesn't seem to care enough about PvP to fix this bug.

All of the 6 people who regularly play IC better get submitting bug tickets then.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Yep, it's really frustrating that ZOS doesn't seem to care enough about PvP to fix this bug.

All of the 6 people who regularly play IC better get submitting bug tickets then.

Happens in Cyrodiil too - heavy attack a keep guard and anyone around the guard is killed.

divnyi · August 20

Sluggy wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Wait what, it's still a lot more than I'd expect from a single tick of lightning heavy.

Come on, I played lightning heavy before when it worked in PvP. On DK, that did have a separate % buff, so it's comparable with new Empower.
It did a lot of damage but nowhere close to this.

55k per tick is what, 27k per tick for PvP? No way it was that high. We are talking about 100k per heavy. Even with off-balance it didn't do this.

Because a) empower is now 70% and b) battle spirit is not active on this effect.

I made it clear that my char had molten armaments, which did independent HA buff so empower*molten roughly equals what we have now. And they remade maelstrom staff so it's no longer HA-related, you can't have 3 HA sets on a char.

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

that change you might be thinking of is that they removed the first 2 ticks of the lightning heavy from being splashed, so only the 3rd and final hit is splashed

Wait lmao this is hilarious. I'm completely sold on rebuilding HA DK to go to IC and kill people with splashes.
What's the best HA sets today? Sergeant's and Noble Duelist?

Well the old molten was 50%, this is a +20% boost which is stronger than like, what, 90% of all buffs out there right now.

😮‍💨
+50% molten multiplied by +40% old Empower = +110% > 70% new Empower

acastanza_ESO · August 20

This is a bug that people have been exploiting ever since the changes to Empower a while back. ZOS keeps ignoring it. Report their bug abuse (it is a TOS violation) and move on.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 21

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug that people have been exploiting ever since the changes to Empower a while back. ZOS keeps ignoring it. Report their bug abuse (it is a TOS violation) and move on.

It's not an exploit to attack pve mobs with a pve gear setup for heavy attack. It's a bug for sure but not one under the players control to avoid.

Auldwulfe · August 26

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

This is a bug that people have been exploiting ever since the changes to Empower a while back. ZOS keeps ignoring it. Report their bug abuse (it is a TOS violation) and move on.

It's not an exploit to attack pve mobs with a pve gear setup for heavy attack. It's a bug for sure but not one under the players control to avoid.

Especially, more so, when ZOS doesn't actually fix the targeting bugs -- I have used tab targeting, and watched my attacks go 90 degrees off to another target - I have done leap attacks with a NB, and had it turn a corner to get that cockroach, despite having aimed at a mob.... fix that, and then we can talk about people calling things abuse.

Auldwulfe

Aces-High-82 · August 27

Problem with tab targeting in eso is the server performance eg positional desync and how the animation based combat with its hitboxes interact altogether.
Things shown on your client are always off in comparison to the server.
Take as mentioned positional desync as an example: it won't be very noticable in PvE as those encounters are very static in their design but in PvP the shown gameplay on your client is always ~0.8 sec behind the server - no matter how good your connection is. Such disparity is tremendous and simply would be received as unplayable in a hitbox based combat system like in first person shooters eg Battlefield, CoD, CS etc.
Additionaly delayed package communication between the server and clients - which Iis exploitable btw - does not favor a crisp responsivenes in combat eg seemingly eating multiple abilities within a single GCD.
I am not certain but the tab targeting in eso seems to be calculated on the client - the desync and how hitboxes seem to be prioritized by their calculated actual position on the server make the feature unreliable as long as I can think of.

edward_frigidhands · September 10

sunandstars77 wrote: »

Wow!

Can't believe this still is not fixed.