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ZOS please work on the in game economy
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).
Actually it puts housing enthusiasts at an advantage. I can now afford mats to make decorations to actually decorate my houses. The housing decorating community pretty much died because of the whale economy and with it so did how I made my gold as a decorator for hire. This is a massive boon to the housing community.
Ah, well that’s good! Glad for you guys.
I figured it would be even more of a struggle, because housing was always such a massive gold sink and I just kind of assumed housing-related trading costs would stay relatively stable.
Not at all surprised that the housing community died in the past. When I finished decorating my primary house, that was it for me. I had to use Crowns to finish it, because the trader prices for blueprints and mats were absolutely bonkers, and the drop rates made the stuff impractical to farm. Prices were so bad, it felt like it was borderline gatekeeping. Felt like you could only get into housing if you were a multi-multi-millionaire. Couldn’t see the point in spending that much gold on a house I’ll visit once in a while when I still needed to buy tri-stat glyphs for all my alts and whatnot.2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Actually it puts housing enthusiasts at an advantage. I can now afford mats to make decorations to actually decorate my houses. The housing decorating community pretty much died because of the whale economy and with it so did how I made my gold as a decorator for hire. This is a massive boon to the housing community.
It's not just the mats for crafting. It is also the furnishings themselves. You can now afford a lot more than before.
I love it. I can finally finish some of my long standing projects, that were put on hold, because I had to pay 50k for one cabinet or so.If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.9 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Actually it puts housing enthusiasts at an advantage. I can now afford mats to make decorations to actually decorate my houses. The housing decorating community pretty much died because of the whale economy and with it so did how I made my gold as a decorator for hire. This is a massive boon to the housing community.
It's not just the mats for crafting. It is also the furnishings themselves. You can now afford a lot more than before.
I love it. I can finally finish some of my long standing projects, that were put on hold, because I had to pay 50k for one cabinet or so.
That’s awesome! Glad to hear it.
I repeat: this economy benefits those of us who play the game and engage with features of the game beyond trading. It’s great to be able to buy things for a change without feeling forced to grind for the items yourself.9 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭That’s awesome! Glad to hear it.
I repeat: this economy benefits those of us who play the game and engage with features of the game beyond trading. It’s great to be able to buy things for a change without feeling forced to grind for the items yourself.
If people are suddenly going to buy loads of mats/recipes it will push the price back up.
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belial5221_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The ingame economy is set by players,and Zos stated in past that theywon't interfere.Only way for Zos to do anything is change droprates on everything,and doubt they ever will.If you want to inflate prices,just buy everything and destroy it all,then ppl will be forced to charge more,until peole farm enough to drop prices,lol.2
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Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭belial5221_ESO wrote: »The ingame economy is set by players,and Zos stated in past that theywon't interfere.Only way for Zos to do anything is change droprates on everything,and doubt they ever will.If you want to inflate prices,just buy everything and destroy it all,then ppl will be forced to charge more,until peole farm enough to drop prices,lol.
Or on console servers like PS/NA, the supply of mats could be reduced by reducing the number of bots farming nodes continuously in the base game zones, such as Khenarthi's Roost. Of course, this is like "whack a mole", folks report bots and ZOS bans bots, and the bots come back with different names in the next day or so. I think reducing the supply of materials from bots would impact the PS/NA economy.0 -
sunsrest✭✭✭there are issues with the game but I don't think things costing less is one of them, it makes it easier to buy things for casuals and new players, it might even extend their stay in the game because fashion and housing is more available now5 -
LPapirius✭✭✭✭I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that the current in game economy is not ever going to recover from where it is now. The incentives to farm and market rare items is gone now and the player base is shrinking really fast right now at the same time. The big ticket items will likely never be worth more than a fraction of they were a few months ago because new players can't afford them and old players already have them. As the trade guilds fade away the economy will get even worse most likely.
I don't think people are realizing how bad this situation probably is. It's another major hit to the game and peoples incentive to play regularly.10 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That’s awesome! Glad to hear it.
I repeat: this economy benefits those of us who play the game and engage with features of the game beyond trading. It’s great to be able to buy things for a change without feeling forced to grind for the items yourself.
If people are suddenly going to buy loads of mats/recipes it will push the price back up.
Not necessarily. When Dreugh Wax was 50k a pop, I simply refused to buy it and farmed my own. I know a lot of other people who did the same. Housing enthusiasts getting back into things may do the same if things become ridiculously expensive again, or may just abandon housing again entirely.
Edit: TypoEdited by Aurielle on 17 August 2024 15:551 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »DarthCuddlefluff wrote: »Low prices are a good thing. Please stop with the posts complaining about an objectively better economy.
Agreed. Stuff is actually affordable for the first time in a long time for those of us who don’t play the trader end game 24/7. This situation puts housing enthusiasts and flippers at a disadvantage, for sure, but it’s better for the game’s population as a whole. It’s nice to actually be able to buy gold mats for a build without completely depleting my coffers for a change. It lets me spend more time doing what I want to do (PVP) and less time doing what I can’t stand (farming).
Actually it puts housing enthusiasts at an advantage. I can now afford mats to make decorations to actually decorate my houses. The housing decorating community pretty much died because of the whale economy and with it so did how I made my gold as a decorator for hire. This is a massive boon to the housing community.
Not necessarily. If you are on console with just a few crafting toons and farm furnishing plans to learn and duplicates to sell, you aren’t making much gold from the sales now.
I haven’t found enough purple plans to sell and the prices for those in traders are still high.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭Not necessarily. When Dreugh Wax was 50k a pop, I simply refused to buy it and farmed my own. I know a lot of other people who did the same. Housing enthusiasts getting back into things may do the same if things become ridiculously expensive again, or may just abandon housing again entirely.
Edit: Typo
You farmed your own. That's irrelevant to my point. *shrug*
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not necessarily. When Dreugh Wax was 50k a pop, I simply refused to buy it and farmed my own. I know a lot of other people who did the same. Housing enthusiasts getting back into things may do the same if things become ridiculously expensive again, or may just abandon housing again entirely.
Edit: Typo
You farmed your own. That's irrelevant to my point. *shrug*
Not really? If enough people refuse to buy items at inflated prices, sellers eventually have to reduce the price if they want a sale, or else people will just acquire those items via farming. An increase in demand for housing mats could raise prices a little (basic supply and demand), but I highly doubt we’re going to see a return to the former ridiculously high pricing any time soon. If greedy types try to force a return to that kind of pricing, we’ll just disengage again.
Edit: it may help everyone to remember that real world economic principles don’t really apply in exactly the same way to game economies where it’s possible to acquire some highly sought items with relative ease. IRL, I can’t just go out and find a car in the wild (not without going to jail, LOL), simply because I think the inflated cost of cars is ridiculous. In ESO, if the price of Dreugh Wax is ridiculous, I can just refuse to play the trader’s game altogether and acquire it myself. I think a lot of people have realized just how easy it is to acquire gold mats, which is one reason why the cost of these items has plummeted.Edited by Aurielle on 18 August 2024 09:463 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
And I agreed with you that an increase in demand could push prices up a little due to basic principles of supply and demand, but likely not back up to where they were. Not anytime soon, anyway. Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.2 -
Nharimlur_Finor✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure I sound like everyone's broken record but the games economy is in a really bad way. Sale have flat-lined, commodity prices are about 1/4 of what they were a year ago and still in free-fall. there just isnt much of a incentive to buy or sell. This has now been a problem for months and the games economy feels like it is at the breaking point. At this point ZOS needs to add some new mechanisms to stimulate it, such as a massive new resource sink. the fact is that previously much of the economy was due to a increasing player base and that is just not sustainable. This is something that really needs to be fixed by year end or many trading guilds are gonna suffer as will people trying to sell stuff. To be honest any other suggestions that would work would be good.
Guilds that were setup to provide a social network first; and trading as an option (as intended), will continue.
Guilds that were setup as trading-only guilds may not.
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Lucinator✭✭✭I'm sure I sound like everyone's broken record but the games economy is in a really bad way. Sale have flat-lined, commodity prices are about 1/4 of what they were a year ago and still in free-fall. there just isnt much of a incentive to buy or sell. This has now been a problem for months and the games economy feels like it is at the breaking point. At this point ZOS needs to add some new mechanisms to stimulate it, such as a massive new resource sink. the fact is that previously much of the economy was due to a increasing player base and that is just not sustainable. This is something that really needs to be fixed by year end or many trading guilds are gonna suffer as will people trying to sell stuff. To be honest any other suggestions that would work would be good.
You are fundamentally misunderstanding how an economy functions be it real world or in-game.
Commodity prices have dropped, yes. Why? Increased supply due to more players farming, lower demand as older players no longer need to build things. This was hastened by the recent event and the change to 14 days listing, but is actually indicative of a functioning economy, not a failing one.
The same came be said for things like motifs and style pages, as older players finish out their collections the demand drops.
Yes an influx of players would provide a boost but eventually the same will happen, and as more people play the lower the boost from new players who increasingly make up a smaller % of the player base.
It's basic supply/demand economics, much like how new overland sets initially sell high before not even being bothered listing at all.
No I understand it just fine. You asume that the game is gonna keep growing with new players, that is not gonna be the case. Thats why I would like to see some resource sinks for that very reason, you need to have a demand side of things. If more people want resources then that is what would stimulate growth in player to player sales. try to study GAME economies. Supply and demand is always the name of the game and you need to have something to drive demand.1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sure I sound like everyone's broken record but the games economy is in a really bad way. Sale have flat-lined, commodity prices are about 1/4 of what they were a year ago and still in free-fall. there just isnt much of a incentive to buy or sell. This has now been a problem for months and the games economy feels like it is at the breaking point. At this point ZOS needs to add some new mechanisms to stimulate it, such as a massive new resource sink. the fact is that previously much of the economy was due to a increasing player base and that is just not sustainable. This is something that really needs to be fixed by year end or many trading guilds are gonna suffer as will people trying to sell stuff. To be honest any other suggestions that would work would be good.
Guilds that were setup to provide a social network first; and trading as an option (as intended), will continue.
Guilds that were setup as trading-only guilds may not.
This is incorrect. I ran a social guild with a trader on the side (it made about 50-200K gold in taxes each week) and now that things don't sell for as high of a price, I have burned thru my entire gold reserve and can no longer afford the trader. I used to make about 15m gold a week split between 3 trading guilds (including my own), mostly selling the mats I'd farmed that week plus any motifs I'd picked up. It covered my expenses and my trader fee and sometimes a guild raffle.
All that's gone. I hoard my mats for myself because I can't afford to buy them. Trader is gone. It takes me 3 weeks now to earn my weekly listing fee and my guild is shedding members due to not keeping a trader. I'm also not playing as much because what's the point?11 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭This is incorrect. I ran a social guild with a trader on the side (it made about 50-200K gold in taxes each week) and now that things don't sell for as high of a price, I have burned thru my entire gold reserve and can no longer afford the trader.
If things are not selling for a high price in general, how are other guilds outbidding you? Surely the drop in your revenue would be proportional to other guilds drop in their revenue, all things being equal?
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alpha_synuclein✭✭✭✭Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.
Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?
Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.
And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman
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Orbital78✭✭✭✭This is incorrect. I ran a social guild with a trader on the side (it made about 50-200K gold in taxes each week) and now that things don't sell for as high of a price, I have burned thru my entire gold reserve and can no longer afford the trader.
If things are not selling for a high price in general, how are other guilds outbidding you? Surely the drop in your revenue would be proportional to other guilds drop in their revenue, all things being equal?
From what I hear people are relying on members that sell crowns for gold, in part at least. Guessing that is why one of my guilds lost their bid this last week.2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.
Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?
Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.
And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman
What does “sustaining” oneself in this game look like, gold-wise? I’m genuinely curious. I currently only have 3 million gold to my name on PC NA, as I went on a little shopping spree recently (bought a Torte recipe and golded out some more sets for comp builds in a PVP guild I run with). I have seven characters that I play regularly, and they all have more than enough potions, food, etc for the content I run with them. I’m not concerned about my game wealth whatsoever. There’s literally nothing I need to buy right now and for the foreseeable future. 3 million gold is chump change compared to what the average trader has in their coffers, so I’m having a really hard time understanding how the current economy is unsustainable. What are you buying that’s eating through your gold faster than you can recoup it?6 -
AnduinTryggva✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sure I sound like everyone's broken record but the games economy is in a really bad way. Sale have flat-lined, commodity prices are about 1/4 of what they were a year ago and still in free-fall. there just isnt much of a incentive to buy or sell. This has now been a problem for months and the games economy feels like it is at the breaking point. At this point ZOS needs to add some new mechanisms to stimulate it, such as a massive new resource sink. the fact is that previously much of the economy was due to a increasing player base and that is just not sustainable. This is something that really needs to be fixed by year end or many trading guilds are gonna suffer as will people trying to sell stuff. To be honest any other suggestions that would work would be good.
I recommend to sit back and drink a cup of tea (with some relaxing effects). There is ZERO reason for panic mode.
It is about a game and a non existant currency that is just used to obtain some items that are virtual and actually mostly only existant as pixel representation of some binary numbers.
Just wait until the transition process comes to a halt which eventually it will. And the new prices will be just new numbers for the same value.
It is normal that during transition to lower numbers people are more inclined to wait a bit. They will stop waiting when they realize that the number drop slows down or stops.4 -
alpha_synuclein✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.
Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?
Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.
And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman
What does “sustaining” oneself in this game look like, gold-wise? I’m genuinely curious. I currently only have 3 million gold to my name on PC NA, as I went on a little shopping spree recently (bought a Torte recipe and golded out some more sets for comp builds in a PVP guild I run with). I have seven characters that I play regularly, and they all have more than enough potions, food, etc for the content I run with them. I’m not concerned about my game wealth whatsoever. There’s literally nothing I need to buy right now and for the foreseeable future. 3 million gold is chump change compared to what the average trader has in their coffers,so I’m having a really hard time understanding how the current economy is unsustainable. What are you buying that’s eating through your gold faster than you can recoup it?
Obviously, the number will be different for different people.
I never said that the current economy is unsustainable. What I was trying to point out is that most players are not traders that are "playing the economy" as their main game. Most trade from need not from greed. Prices are changing quite significantly now, and the changed in prices of things we buy are not always in line to what we're are selling. So it's not a surprise that people panic a bit... Not everyone will adjust right away, there will be concerns. And those who are concerned are not necessarily ill-motivated.
Personally I am doing fine. I'm enjoying cheap(-ish) columbine like the next person
My spendings are mostly consumables and upgrade mats, but I have enough gold to last me for long time, even if I cease to trade completely. But I understand that this might not be the case for many. And that is what we need a bit more of. Understanding to those that are in transition.1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »alpha_synuclein wrote: »Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.
Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?
Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.
And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman
What does “sustaining” oneself in this game look like, gold-wise? I’m genuinely curious. I currently only have 3 million gold to my name on PC NA, as I went on a little shopping spree recently (bought a Torte recipe and golded out some more sets for comp builds in a PVP guild I run with). I have seven characters that I play regularly, and they all have more than enough potions, food, etc for the content I run with them. I’m not concerned about my game wealth whatsoever. There’s literally nothing I need to buy right now and for the foreseeable future. 3 million gold is chump change compared to what the average trader has in their coffers,so I’m having a really hard time understanding how the current economy is unsustainable. What are you buying that’s eating through your gold faster than you can recoup it?
Obviously, the number will be different for different people.
I never said that the current economy is unsustainable. What I was trying to point out is that most players are not traders that are "playing the economy" as their main game. Most trade from need not from greed. Prices are changing quite significantly now, and the changed in prices of things we buy are not always in line to what we're are selling. So it's not a surprise that people panic a bit... Not everyone will adjust right away, there will be concerns. And those who are concerned are not necessarily ill-motivated.
Personally I am doing fine. I'm enjoying cheap(-ish) columbine like the next person
My spendings are mostly consumables and upgrade mats, but I have enough gold to last me for long time, even if I cease to trade completely. But I understand that this might not be the case for many. And that is what we need a bit more of. Understanding to those that are in transition.
You stated:Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves.
How does this not imply that the economy is somehow “unsustainable” for those who are up in arms over the fact that prices have dropped and are still dropping? I can empathize with their concerns, but only to an extent. We have people here saying that they’re trashing rare items that aren’t selling at their listed price, which is a bit of an overreaction, IMO.
Anything anyone lists on a guild trader will sell if it’s a desired item that is priced well. People panicking about having listings returned to them simply need to re-evaluate their trading practices, before demanding in multiple knee jerk-reaction threads on the forums that ZOS needs to step in and do something. They’re either selling items no one wants anymore, or they’re still listing them for prices that are too high for what other players are willing to spend now. A bit of resiliency and willingness to make adjustments is needed here.
I’d be willing to bet that a major reason why people are so upset is because it’s a bit harder for them to buy Crown Store items now without spending real money. I see that the gold to Crown ratio is starting to drop as well, though, so hopefully the panic will settle down soon and we won’t have to keep reading about how the sky is falling due to fairly priced items in guild stores.1 -
alpha_synuclein✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »alpha_synuclein wrote: »Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.
Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?
Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.
And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman
What does “sustaining” oneself in this game look like, gold-wise? I’m genuinely curious. I currently only have 3 million gold to my name on PC NA, as I went on a little shopping spree recently (bought a Torte recipe and golded out some more sets for comp builds in a PVP guild I run with). I have seven characters that I play regularly, and they all have more than enough potions, food, etc for the content I run with them. I’m not concerned about my game wealth whatsoever. There’s literally nothing I need to buy right now and for the foreseeable future. 3 million gold is chump change compared to what the average trader has in their coffers,so I’m having a really hard time understanding how the current economy is unsustainable. What are you buying that’s eating through your gold faster than you can recoup it?
Obviously, the number will be different for different people.
I never said that the current economy is unsustainable. What I was trying to point out is that most players are not traders that are "playing the economy" as their main game. Most trade from need not from greed. Prices are changing quite significantly now, and the changed in prices of things we buy are not always in line to what we're are selling. So it's not a surprise that people panic a bit... Not everyone will adjust right away, there will be concerns. And those who are concerned are not necessarily ill-motivated.
Personally I am doing fine. I'm enjoying cheap(-ish) columbine like the next person
My spendings are mostly consumables and upgrade mats, but I have enough gold to last me for long time, even if I cease to trade completely. But I understand that this might not be the case for many. And that is what we need a bit more of. Understanding to those that are in transition.
You stated:Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves.
How does this not imply that the economy is somehow “unsustainable” for those who are up in arms over the fact that prices have dropped and are still dropping? I can empathize with their concerns, but only to an extent. We have people here saying that they’re trashing rare items that aren’t selling at their listed price, which is a bit of an overreaction, IMO.
Anything anyone lists on a guild trader will sell if it’s a desired item that is priced well. People panicking about having listings returned to them simply need to re-evaluate their trading practices, before demanding in multiple knee jerk-reaction threads on the forums that ZOS needs to step in and do something. They’re either selling items no one wants anymore, or they’re still listing them for prices that are too high for what other players are willing to spend now. A bit of resiliency and willingness to make adjustments is needed here.
I’d be willing to bet that a major reason why people are so upset is because it’s a bit harder for them to buy Crown Store items now without spending real money. I see that the gold to Crown ratio is starting to drop as well, though, so hopefully the panic will settle down soon and we won’t have to keep reading about how the sky is falling due to fairly priced items in guild stores.
I don't think I understand the confusion. I was referring to players motivation, not the feature of the economy. You have mentioned traders greed multiple times in response to concerns raised in this thread. What I was trying to point out (clearly unsuccesfully...) is that most players do not trade to make as much gold as possible (aka out of greed) but to make enough to afford stuff that they want (aka to sustain).
The only thing I am opposing here is putting everyone in one "oh, you don't like low prices, you have to be greedy ****" bag.
Every economy can be sustainable, as long as you are willing to adjust your strategies and expectations. Current changes will require a lot of adjustments from players used to how things were before. Knee jerk reactions are natural (although I would be careful with that particular expression ).
As for buying crown store stuff for gold, I have never participated in that aspect of the market, but considering how stupidly overpriced crown items are, I won't blame anyone for getting upset here...
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derkaiserliche✭✭✭✭✭The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.
Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.
The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »alpha_synuclein wrote: »alpha_synuclein wrote: »Players are enjoying reasonable prices for the first time in a long time — we’re not about to give that up if traders get greedy again.
Can we please stop framing the current economy discussions as if all who are not all happy about what is going on are some greedy billionaires with shady motivations?
Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves. Some of them are not in a great place now and it will take them some time to adjust. We are going through quite volatile times and it's not surprising that there are concerns.
And there is one thing from the rl economy that does apply here. The insanely rich will stay insanely rich. As always. So let's stop barking at the middleman
What does “sustaining” oneself in this game look like, gold-wise? I’m genuinely curious. I currently only have 3 million gold to my name on PC NA, as I went on a little shopping spree recently (bought a Torte recipe and golded out some more sets for comp builds in a PVP guild I run with). I have seven characters that I play regularly, and they all have more than enough potions, food, etc for the content I run with them. I’m not concerned about my game wealth whatsoever. There’s literally nothing I need to buy right now and for the foreseeable future. 3 million gold is chump change compared to what the average trader has in their coffers,so I’m having a really hard time understanding how the current economy is unsustainable. What are you buying that’s eating through your gold faster than you can recoup it?
Obviously, the number will be different for different people.
I never said that the current economy is unsustainable. What I was trying to point out is that most players are not traders that are "playing the economy" as their main game. Most trade from need not from greed. Prices are changing quite significantly now, and the changed in prices of things we buy are not always in line to what we're are selling. So it's not a surprise that people panic a bit... Not everyone will adjust right away, there will be concerns. And those who are concerned are not necessarily ill-motivated.
Personally I am doing fine. I'm enjoying cheap(-ish) columbine like the next person
My spendings are mostly consumables and upgrade mats, but I have enough gold to last me for long time, even if I cease to trade completely. But I understand that this might not be the case for many. And that is what we need a bit more of. Understanding to those that are in transition.
You stated:Most of the folks that are involved in trading trade not to rise prices to oblivion, but simply to sustain themselves.
How does this not imply that the economy is somehow “unsustainable” for those who are up in arms over the fact that prices have dropped and are still dropping? I can empathize with their concerns, but only to an extent. We have people here saying that they’re trashing rare items that aren’t selling at their listed price, which is a bit of an overreaction, IMO.
Anything anyone lists on a guild trader will sell if it’s a desired item that is priced well. People panicking about having listings returned to them simply need to re-evaluate their trading practices, before demanding in multiple knee jerk-reaction threads on the forums that ZOS needs to step in and do something. They’re either selling items no one wants anymore, or they’re still listing them for prices that are too high for what other players are willing to spend now. A bit of resiliency and willingness to make adjustments is needed here.
I’d be willing to bet that a major reason why people are so upset is because it’s a bit harder for them to buy Crown Store items now without spending real money. I see that the gold to Crown ratio is starting to drop as well, though, so hopefully the panic will settle down soon and we won’t have to keep reading about how the sky is falling due to fairly priced items in guild stores.
I don't think I understand the confusion. I was referring to players motivation, not the feature of the economy. You have mentioned traders greed multiple times in response to concerns raised in this thread. What I was trying to point out (clearly unsuccesfully...) is that most players do not trade to make as much gold as possible (aka out of greed) but to make enough to afford stuff that they want (aka to sustain).
The only thing I am opposing here is putting everyone in one "oh, you don't like low prices, you have to be greedy ****" bag.
Every economy can be sustainable, as long as you are willing to adjust your strategies and expectations. Current changes will require a lot of adjustments from players used to how things were before. Knee jerk reactions are natural (although I would be careful with that particular expression ).
As for buying crown store stuff for gold, I have never participated in that aspect of the market, but considering how stupidly overpriced crown items are, I won't blame anyone for getting upset here...
Trader greed IS a large part of the public outcry here, though. A number of the players here openly decrying the drop in prices have admitted to trading being their primary activity in game. I suspect they enjoyed seeing the numbers going up and up and up — much like those of us who DPS enjoy seeing our numbers going up and up and up — without caring about the impact this was having on the vast majority of the playerbase, and without appreciating the fact that economic bubbles do tend to burst.
Sure, plenty of people post stuff on traders to sustain their own purchases for various PVE/PVP activities. I don’t dispute that. But if the price of most things has declined and is still in the process of declining, then the fact that they can’t sell farmed items at their previously inflated prices means very little in the end, as it’ll also cost them less to buy what they needed to buy in the first place.
As for the Crown Store, the solution to overpriced Crown items is simple: don’t buy them. Not with gold, not with real money. ZOS is also subject to demand… If people use gold to buy overpriced Crown items, ZOS has zero impetus to adjust their Crown store pricing, because they’re getting a sale either way.5 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭derkaiserliche wrote: »The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.
Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.
The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.
If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.3 -
Silaf✭✭✭✭✭Measuring the healt of an economy it's easy. The more transactions you have the healtier it is.
The problem is not that the prices are more or less but that the total number of transactions has diminuished.4 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭derkaiserliche wrote: »The 14 day change impacts a lot imo.
Many people hate to get tons of items back into their inventory after wasting gold for trying to sell them in the guild stores.
The result: They put them up at the low ttc price range and ttc average will drop. The next player will put them at an even lower price and so the downfall continues.
If the item didn’t sell by day 13, it likely also wouldn’t sell by day 29. Were that many people seriously letting items sit in their trader slots for 30 days? That’s wasted revenue opportunity, IMO. If something I’ve listed hasn’t sold in a week, I know I’ve listed it too high or that the item simply isn’t in demand. I cancel the listing and post something that will actually sell, and make way more gold than I would have if I just let the item take up that slot for 30 days.
This is absolutely not the case for the high value items that cost over 1 million gold because they are so rare or hard to get.9