Ideas for a Templar rework/ improvement

Syiccal · August 26

It would be nice to have a dev at least comment to say if temp being looked at or not, or we all wasting our time.

The_Isatope8 · August 26

The Dev team probably doesn't even know about this thread to be honest. I'm not gonna @ them though, I'm not gonna be so arrogant as to tell them how to fix a class.

SugaComa · September 1

Most of the skills a Templar has are great the issues with them no flex in positioning everything drops at your feet and doesn't allow for the push especially on PvP, as a warrior of the holy light that light should always emanate from me, not from something I left on the floor .solar barrage is an almost perfect skill in how it works , rest of our skills needs to work the same way giving us mobility
.. lack of mobility get you killed faster than anything else in ESO , hell even my companions scream at me to increase my mobility

The only place the Templar skills are of any real use is on duals as the dialing area is not much larger than the cleansing ritual area

Also who ever mention the icons .. spot on, we need more colour in our icons so we can better identify what we have slotted especially when I'm tired and my eyes are blurry

Syiccal · September 1

My biggest issues as I've said before:

-Sorcery being tied to jabs, this is bad design and means a huge drop in spell DMG when on the defensive or in execute.
- "while slotted on either bar" seems to be more and more available on other classes and Templar lacks in this area.
- sustain passive lack massively when compared to the other classes.
- passives in general are very dated and don't offer any where near the same power as other classes. BUT it's ok we get free soul gems lolz AND let's not forget 2 added seconds on wrath abilities...
- skills only offer 1 or 2 things and not enough utility when compared to new classes. Like for like would be arcanist who has way more utility on skills. Every skill they have does multiple things, then you have Templar and il use javlyn as an example; it's stuns...that's it!
- Extended ritual is ok but to dated for today's meta just look at every single plar on YouTube, 90% don't use it because removing 5 negative effects that get reapplied with the next cast of ele sus for free isn't worth the 4k mag cost. If I'm thinking EXTENTED ritual let that ritual remove negative effects with each tick other wise what's the point.
- rune focus and extended ritual need to be changed/re worked to stay with the player, having to stay in one spot in a fast paced game is bad design imo.
- Backlash and morphs are either underpowered or not working as intended. It already has a lower tool tip than spectral bow by some margin which requires nothing but light attacks to build yet is much much harder to build up any meaningful DMG burst.
- crescent sweep should come with 2 options like incap, 72 ult and 130 ult and at 130 it's stuns or immobilizes everyone it hits.
- Sun shield and morphs, I mean why even give Templar a shield that's so unstable what a waste of time even having it in the lineup of abilities.
-

The_Isatope8 · September 2

@SugaComa

SugaComa wrote: »

Most of the skills a Templar has are great the issues with them no flex in positioning everything drops at your feet and doesn't allow for the push especially on PvP, as a warrior of the holy light that light should always emanate from me, not from something I left on the floor .solar barrage is an almost perfect skill in how it works , rest of our skills needs to work the same way giving us mobility
.. lack of mobility get you killed faster than anything else in ESO , hell even my companions scream at me to increase my mobility

The only place the Templar skills are of any real use is on duals as the dialing area is not much larger than the cleansing ritual area

Also who ever mention the icons .. spot on, we need more colour in our icons so we can better identify what we have slotted especially when I'm tired and my eyes are blurry

Something interesting that I noticed is that Aura's are mentioned several times in the literature concerning Templar in-game:

Templar is meant to emulate the 'Paladin' archetype so why not lean into it more? Aura effects are a massive part of the DnD paladin and they are one of the most resilient classes and provide great utility to their party with their aforementioned aura's. Templar is already very resilient, but their group utility is lacking to say the least. they really need an overdue rework to bring them up to speed with the other classes.

Anti_Virus · September 7

Here's my Templar overhaul idea

First I would define each skill line as the following:

Aedric Spear: Damage Skill line
Dawns Wrath: Tanks/Group Utility skill line
Restoring Light: Healing Skill line

Next I want to add a new mechanic: Three Virtues

Oath of Devotion for Restoring Light(Buff)
Oath of Courage for Dawns Wrath(Buff)
Oath Retribution for Aedric spear (Buff)

The virtues mechanic works like how the wrath sun set work currently where you need to build a certain amount of stacks to receive a temporary buff for a short duration.

Examples:

Oath of Devotion:
Gain stacks of Valor when buffing allies using restoring light abilities. at max stacks(30) gain Oath of Devotion for 10 seconds which will will empower certain Restoring light skills.

Oath of Bravery:
Gain stacks of Courage when you protect allies with dawns wrath abilities. At max stacks gain Oath of Bravery for 10 seconds which will empower some certain Dawns Wrath skills.

Oath of Retribution:
When you deal damage with two or more Aedric Spear abilities gain stacks of Vengeance. At max stacks gain Oath of Retribution for 10 secs which empower certain Aedric spear skills.

You lose 1 stack every 5 seconds.
Upon reaching reach max stacks after 10 secs you lose the buff along all the stacks and need to build them up again.

Next some changes to each skill line.

Aedric Spear:
Radial Sweep:

This ability and it's morphs gain a knock back CC While Oath of Retribution is active

Puncturing strikes

Cost determined by highest max offensive resource
This ability and it’s morphs gain major brutality and sorcery after casting for 10 secs
Bitting jabs: while slotted on either bar gain major savagery and prophecy
While Oath of Retribution is active the final hit of this ability applies a 40% snare for 5 secs

I made this change to make a distinction between the damage morph and sustain/healing morph. I also wanted to give magic and stamina templar some flexibility of choice when choosing a morph

Piercing Javelin

While Oath of Retribution is active you throw three spears at three separate enemies

Backlash

While Oath of Retribution active this ability and morphs applies major fracture and breach to the target and deals 50% of the damage dealt to the primary target as AoE damage

In my opinion this makes more sense to move this skill to the damage skill line since it's an important part of templar damage. In terms of the Retribution buff the goal was to make one cast of this skill really powerful as a reward for building up enough stacks

Focused Charge

gain sun sphere buff for 15 secs after casting with either morph

I moved the sun sphere buff here to give this skill more of a reason to be used instead of other gap closers

Burning Light(Passive):

When you deal damage with burning light 4 times within 20 secs you gain 2 stacks of Vengeance with a cool down of 4 seconds

In order to not gimp templar builds that don't use many class skills I made this compromise as an alternative

Dawn's Wrath:
Nova:

While Oath of Bravery is active upon casting nova(and morphs) enemies are pulled to the center of the ultimate. The synergy damage and the overall ultimate damage is reduced by 15%

I reduced the damage of the ultimate so that it wouldn't be OP in PVP since when have enough bomber build out there currently

Sun fire:

Blast an enemy with radiant heat dealing x magic damage and taunting the target for ten seconds also applies minor brittle to the target for 10 secs
Vampires Bane: Increases taunt duration and minor brittle duration to 20 secs and deal double damage against undead
Reflective Light: Taunts 3 separate enemies instead of one
While Oath of Bravery is active you deal additional damage over time

since this skill was pretty bad IMO I reworked it to be a ranged taunt skill, in PVE this will be great for templar tanks while in PVP you can still dodge the projectle

Solar Guard:

Changed from Solar flare to Solar Guard a self buff with a duration of 20 seconds and now grants you major resolve and major ward for twenty seconds at base
Solar Aegis: While active allies within 10 meters of you gain minor protection
Solar Barrage: Duration increased from 20 to 30 secs and now deals damage in an AOE around you

Standard armor buff with some tank utility with one morph and the second morph is more offensive

Sun Shield:

While sun shield and radiant ward is active heal for 100% of the shield max HP over 6 secs
Blazing shield new heals you for 100% of the shield max HP over 6 secs when the shield expires or is destroyed
While Oath of Bravery is active you heal for 33% of the shields max HP

I wanted to add a tank based self heal for templars and I think this is a good compromise without it being OP, since you need to be in melee range and engaged with multiple targets for maximum effectiveness

Prism(Passive):

When you take damage while a dawns wrath skill is active on you gain 2 stacks of Courage, this has a cool down of 6 seconds

The power fantasy of Oath of Bravery is to get stronger while protecting your allies like a standard paladin in DnD, but I wanted a way for solo player to build stacks too. This is what I came up with

Restoring Light:

Rite of Passage:

Channel the grace of the gods to summon ray of light at a target location with a 9M radius and lasts for 10 secs, allies in the area gain Major courage and 4000 health regen
Remembrance: Allies also gain 3500 Armor
Practiced Incantation: Allies heal for 33% of their max health upon entering the area
while Oath of Devotion is active the buffs persist after leaving the area for 5 seconds

I think templar has a lot of healing in this skill line so I redesigned to ultimate to be more utility Focused. It's balanced by the fact that in order to gain these buffs you must stand in the AOE area. The health regen portion. of this ability provides some healing but could be countered in PVP by debuffs like major defile

Healing Ritual:

Converted to a channeled ability, now heals you and allies in a 7m radius and allows you to move at a slightly reduced speed( 30% slower)
Ritual of rebirth: Increased radius to 10 meters and heals for more
Hasty Prayer: gain Major expedition while allies are in the area
While Oath of Devotion is active allies are immune to negative effects while in the area

I believe this skill would work better a a channeled heal and to balance this skill you would need to be close to your group to be most effective instead of safely behind them which would make you vulnerable to interrupts and would lock you out of active healing.

Cleansing Ritual

Ritual of Retribution: No longer deals damage, instead it heals allies and enemies in the area gain minor cowardice
While Oath of Devotion is active allies in the area are cleaned of 3 negative(6 with extended ritual) effects every 10 secs

Rune Focus:

Increases you templar healing abilities by 3% while active and standing in the rune triples the healing buff
Channeled Focus: restores 242 magicka and 141 stamina every one second and also applies this buff to allies healed by your restoring light abilities
Restoring focus: restores 242 stamina and 141 magicka every one second and also applies this buff to allies healed by your restoring light abilities

Light Weaver(Passive):

No longer grants armor while channeling rite of passage instead when you buff yourself of an ally with a restoring light ability gain a 2 stacks of Valor with a cool down of 4 seconds.

Syiccal · September 8

I hate the idea of brutality, prophecy and any major buffs being tied to jabs, they should be onto a defensive skill or passively. Other wise you loose the buff while defending or not attacking and also whilst in execute..
The rest seems interesting especially idea of building stacks to change an ability or add elements to an ability

The_Isatope8 · September 8

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Here's my Templar overhaul idea
First I would define each skill line as the following:

Aedric Spear: Damage Skill line
Dawns Wrath: Tanks/Group Utility skill line
Restoring Light: Healing Skill line

Next I want to add a new mechanic: Three Virtues

Oath of Devotion for Restoring Light(Buff)
Oath of Courage for Dawns Wrath(Buff)
Oath Retribution for Aedric spear (Buff)

The virtues mechanic works like how the wrath sun set work currently where you need to build a certain amount of stacks to receive a temporary buff for a short duration.

Examples:

Oath of Devotion:
Gain stacks of Valor when buffing allies using restoring light abilities. at max stacks(30) gain Oath of Devotion for 10 seconds which will will empower certain Restoring light skills.

Oath of Bravery:
Gain stacks of Courage when you protect allies with dawns wrath abilities. At max stacks gain Oath of Bravery for 10 seconds which will empower some certain Dawns Wrath skills.

Oath of Retribution:
When you deal damage with two or more Aedric Spear abilities gain stacks of Vengeance. At max stacks gain Oath of Retribution for 10 secs which empower certain Aedric spear skills.

You lose 1 stack every 5 seconds.
Upon reaching reach max stacks after 10 secs you lose the buff along all the stacks and need to build them up again.

Next some changes to each skill line.

Aedric Spear:
Radial Sweep:
This ability and it's morphs gain a knock back CC While Oath of Retribution is active

Puncturing strikes
Cost determined by highest max offensive resource

This ability and it’s morphs gain major brutality and sorcery after casting for 10 secs

Bitting jabs: while slotted on either bar gain major savagery and prophecy

While Oath of Retribution is active the final hit of this ability applies a 40% snare for 5 secs

I made this change to make a distinction between the damage morph and sustain/healing morph. I also wanted to give magic and stamina templar some flexibility of choice when choosing a morph

Piercing Javelin
While Oath of Retribution is active you throw three spears at three separate enemies

Backlash
While Oath of Retribution active this ability and morphs applies major fracture and breach to the target and deals 50% of the damage dealt to the primary target as AoE damage

In my opinion this makes more sense to move this skill to the damage skill line since it's an important part of templar damage. In terms of the Retribution buff the goal was to make one cast of this skill really powerful as a reward for building up enough stacks

Focused Charge
gain sun sphere buff for 15 secs after casting with either morph

I moved the sun sphere buff here to give this skill more of a reason to be used instead of other gap closers

Burning Light(Passive):
When you deal damage with burning light 4 times within 20 secs you gain 2 stacks of Vengeance with a cool down of 4 seconds

In order to not gimp templar builds that don't use many class skills I made this compromise as an alternative

Dawn's Wrath:
Nova:
While Oath of Bravery is active upon casting nova(and morphs) enemies are pulled to the center of the ultimate. The synergy damage and the overall ultimate damage is reduced by 15%

I reduced the damage of the ultimate so that it wouldn't be OP in PVP since when have enough bomber build out there currently

Sun fire:
Blast an enemy with radiant heat dealing x magic damage and taunting the target for ten seconds also applies minor brittle to the target for 10 secs

Vampires Bane: Increases taunt duration and minor brittle duration to 20 secs and deal double damage against undead

Reflective Light: Taunts 3 separate enemies instead of one

While Oath of Bravery is active you deal additional damage over time

since this skill was pretty bad IMO I reworked it to be a ranged taunt skill, in PVE this will be great for templar tanks while in PVP you can still dodge the projectle

Solar Guard:
Changed from Solar flare to Solar Guard a self buff with a duration of 20 seconds and now grants you major resolve and major ward for twenty seconds at base

Solar Aegis: While active allies within 10 meters of you gain minor protection

Solar Barrage: Duration increased from 20 to 30 secs and now deals damage in an AOE around you

Standard armor buff with some tank utility with one morph and the second morph is more offensive

Sun Shield:
While sun shield and radiant ward is active heal for 100% of the shield max HP over 6 secs

Blazing shield new heals you for 100% of the shield max HP over 6 secs when the shield expires or is destroyed

While Oath of Bravery is active you heal for 33% of the shields max HP

I wanted to add a tank based self heal for templars and I think this is a good compromise without it being OP, since you need to be in melee range and engaged with multiple targets for maximum effectiveness

Prism(Passive):
When you take damage while a dawns wrath skill is active on you gain 2 stacks of Courage, this has a cool down of 6 seconds

The power fantasy of Oath of Bravery is to get stronger while protecting your allies like a standard paladin in DnD, but I wanted a way for solo player to build stacks too. This is what I came up with

Restoring Light:

Rite of Passage:
Channel the grace of the gods to summon ray of light at a target location with a 9M radius and lasts for 10 secs, allies in the area gain Major courage and 4000 health regen

Remembrance: Allies also gain 3500 Armor

Practiced Incantation: Allies heal for 33% of their max health upon entering the area

while Oath of Devotion is active the buffs persist after leaving the area for 5 seconds

I think templar has a lot of healing in this skill line so I redesigned to ultimate to be more utility Focused. It's balanced by the fact that in order to gain these buffs you must stand in the AOE area. The health regen portion. of this ability provides some healing but could be countered in PVP by debuffs like major defile

Healing Ritual:
Converted to a channeled ability, now heals you and allies in a 7m radius and allows you to move at a slightly reduced speed( 30% slower)

Ritual of rebirth: Increased radius to 10 meters and heals for more

Hasty Prayer: gain Major expedition while allies are in the area

While Oath of Devotion is active allies are immune to negative effects while in the area

I believe this skill would work better a a channeled heal and to balance this skill you would need to be close to your group to be most effective instead of safely behind them which would make you vulnerable to interrupts and would lock you out of active healing.

Cleansing Ritual
Ritual of Retribution: No longer deals damage, instead it heals allies and enemies in the area gain minor cowardice

While Oath of Devotion is active allies in the area are cleaned of 3 negative(6 with extended ritual) effects every 10 secs

Rune Focus:
Increases you templar healing abilities by 3% while active and standing in the rune triples the healing buff

Channeled Focus: restores 242 magicka and 141 stamina every one second and also applies this buff to allies healed by your restoring light abilities

Restoring focus: restores 242 stamina and 141 magicka every one second and also applies this buff to allies healed by your restoring light abilities

Light Weaver(Passive):
No longer grants armor while channeling rite of passage instead when you buff yourself of an ally with a restoring light ability gain a 2 stacks of Valor with a cool down of 4 seconds.

While the idea of gaining stacks with certain skill lines is interesting, it feels too much like arcanist with its crux mechanic. The devs have stated that they wanted Arcanist to feel distinct from the other classes and crux accomplishes that, so giving something similar to Templar would take some of that uniqueness away.

I think that a better way to make Templar stand out more would be with aura stuff, heals and buffs that travel with them and encourage allies to stay close. Having big mobile aoe heals/ buff zones around them would give Templar a unique feel and take away the drawbacks of Sacred Ground. They're meant to empower their allies as part of the class fantasy, but whats the use if you need to stand still while your allies run out of your reach.

Syiccal · September 8

The_Isatope8 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Here's my Templar overhaul idea
First I would define each skill line as the following:

Aedric Spear: Damage Skill line
Dawns Wrath: Tanks/Group Utility skill line
Restoring Light: Healing Skill line

Next I want to add a new mechanic: Three Virtues

Oath of Devotion for Restoring Light(Buff)
Oath of Courage for Dawns Wrath(Buff)
Oath Retribution for Aedric spear (Buff)

The virtues mechanic works like how the wrath sun set work currently where you need to build a certain amount of stacks to receive a temporary buff for a short duration.

Examples:

Oath of Devotion:
Gain stacks of Valor when buffing allies using restoring light abilities. at max stacks(30) gain Oath of Devotion for 10 seconds which will will empower certain Restoring light skills.

Oath of Bravery:
Gain stacks of Courage when you protect allies with dawns wrath abilities. At max stacks gain Oath of Bravery for 10 seconds which will empower some certain Dawns Wrath skills.

Oath of Retribution:
When you deal damage with two or more Aedric Spear abilities gain stacks of Vengeance. At max stacks gain Oath of Retribution for 10 secs which empower certain Aedric spear skills.

You lose 1 stack every 5 seconds.
Upon reaching reach max stacks after 10 secs you lose the buff along all the stacks and need to build them up again.

Next some changes to each skill line.

Aedric Spear:
Radial Sweep:
This ability and it's morphs gain a knock back CC While Oath of Retribution is active

Puncturing strikes
Cost determined by highest max offensive resource

This ability and it’s morphs gain major brutality and sorcery after casting for 10 secs

Bitting jabs: while slotted on either bar gain major savagery and prophecy

While Oath of Retribution is active the final hit of this ability applies a 40% snare for 5 secs

I made this change to make a distinction between the damage morph and sustain/healing morph. I also wanted to give magic and stamina templar some flexibility of choice when choosing a morph

Piercing Javelin
While Oath of Retribution is active you throw three spears at three separate enemies

Backlash
While Oath of Retribution active this ability and morphs applies major fracture and breach to the target and deals 50% of the damage dealt to the primary target as AoE damage

In my opinion this makes more sense to move this skill to the damage skill line since it's an important part of templar damage. In terms of the Retribution buff the goal was to make one cast of this skill really powerful as a reward for building up enough stacks

Focused Charge
gain sun sphere buff for 15 secs after casting with either morph

I moved the sun sphere buff here to give this skill more of a reason to be used instead of other gap closers

Burning Light(Passive):
When you deal damage with burning light 4 times within 20 secs you gain 2 stacks of Vengeance with a cool down of 4 seconds

In order to not gimp templar builds that don't use many class skills I made this compromise as an alternative

Dawn's Wrath:
Nova:
While Oath of Bravery is active upon casting nova(and morphs) enemies are pulled to the center of the ultimate. The synergy damage and the overall ultimate damage is reduced by 15%

I reduced the damage of the ultimate so that it wouldn't be OP in PVP since when have enough bomber build out there currently

Sun fire:
Blast an enemy with radiant heat dealing x magic damage and taunting the target for ten seconds also applies minor brittle to the target for 10 secs

Vampires Bane: Increases taunt duration and minor brittle duration to 20 secs and deal double damage against undead

Reflective Light: Taunts 3 separate enemies instead of one

While Oath of Bravery is active you deal additional damage over time

since this skill was pretty bad IMO I reworked it to be a ranged taunt skill, in PVE this will be great for templar tanks while in PVP you can still dodge the projectle

Solar Guard:
Changed from Solar flare to Solar Guard a self buff with a duration of 20 seconds and now grants you major resolve and major ward for twenty seconds at base

Solar Aegis: While active allies within 10 meters of you gain minor protection

Solar Barrage: Duration increased from 20 to 30 secs and now deals damage in an AOE around you

Standard armor buff with some tank utility with one morph and the second morph is more offensive

Sun Shield:
While sun shield and radiant ward is active heal for 100% of the shield max HP over 6 secs

Blazing shield new heals you for 100% of the shield max HP over 6 secs when the shield expires or is destroyed

While Oath of Bravery is active you heal for 33% of the shields max HP

I wanted to add a tank based self heal for templars and I think this is a good compromise without it being OP, since you need to be in melee range and engaged with multiple targets for maximum effectiveness

Prism(Passive):
When you take damage while a dawns wrath skill is active on you gain 2 stacks of Courage, this has a cool down of 6 seconds

The power fantasy of Oath of Bravery is to get stronger while protecting your allies like a standard paladin in DnD, but I wanted a way for solo player to build stacks too. This is what I came up with

Restoring Light:

Rite of Passage:
Channel the grace of the gods to summon ray of light at a target location with a 9M radius and lasts for 10 secs, allies in the area gain Major courage and 4000 health regen

Remembrance: Allies also gain 3500 Armor

Practiced Incantation: Allies heal for 33% of their max health upon entering the area

while Oath of Devotion is active the buffs persist after leaving the area for 5 seconds

I think templar has a lot of healing in this skill line so I redesigned to ultimate to be more utility Focused. It's balanced by the fact that in order to gain these buffs you must stand in the AOE area. The health regen portion. of this ability provides some healing but could be countered in PVP by debuffs like major defile

Healing Ritual:
Converted to a channeled ability, now heals you and allies in a 7m radius and allows you to move at a slightly reduced speed( 30% slower)

Ritual of rebirth: Increased radius to 10 meters and heals for more

Hasty Prayer: gain Major expedition while allies are in the area

While Oath of Devotion is active allies are immune to negative effects while in the area

I believe this skill would work better a a channeled heal and to balance this skill you would need to be close to your group to be most effective instead of safely behind them which would make you vulnerable to interrupts and would lock you out of active healing.

Cleansing Ritual
Ritual of Retribution: No longer deals damage, instead it heals allies and enemies in the area gain minor cowardice

While Oath of Devotion is active allies in the area are cleaned of 3 negative(6 with extended ritual) effects every 10 secs

Rune Focus:
Increases you templar healing abilities by 3% while active and standing in the rune triples the healing buff

Channeled Focus: restores 242 magicka and 141 stamina every one second and also applies this buff to allies healed by your restoring light abilities

Restoring focus: restores 242 stamina and 141 magicka every one second and also applies this buff to allies healed by your restoring light abilities

Light Weaver(Passive):
No longer grants armor while channeling rite of passage instead when you buff yourself of an ally with a restoring light ability gain a 2 stacks of Valor with a cool down of 4 seconds.

While the idea of gaining stacks with certain skill lines is interesting, it feels too much like arcanist with its crux mechanic. The devs have stated that they wanted Arcanist to feel distinct from the other classes and crux accomplishes that, so giving something similar to Templar would take some of that uniqueness away.

I think that a better way to make Templar stand out more would be with aura stuff, heals and buffs that travel with them and encourage allies to stay close. Having big mobile aoe heals/ buff zones around them would give Templar a unique feel and take away the drawbacks of Sacred Ground. They're meant to empower their allies as part of the class fantasy, but whats the use if you need to stand still while your allies run out of your reach.

Very true