Falsely Reporting People

MedicInTheWild · August 11

Im so sick of people that cant play the game whispering me of cheating, [snip] The whispers of them reporting me for cheating is absurd. I main an off meta NB, which has 24.5K health and 16K resistances, me playing 10 years and knowing how to use heals and dodge roll to my advantage is not cheating.

[snip]

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you recommend that those that are showing offline and have the person blocked can not whisper them, I think it is stupid that someone can whisper a person and not receive a whisper or mail message back... This should have been implemented years ago. They abuse the fact that they can whisper you and nothing can be said back, further more ZOS states that you need to tell someone to stop teabagging by them, but if you are blocked and they are offline how are you supposed to tell them. I dont think anyone should have to take extra steps because someone is abusing the system.

[edited for baiting]

WaywardArgonian · August 11

On paper, trying to weaponize the report system against someone is against ToS. I know of someone who (rightfully) got a 72hr ban for saying something to the tune of 'if you give me 500k gold I won't report you'. Yet there are people who whisper literally everyone who kills them that they are reporting them for cheating. If you are on PC/EU you can probably think of a few names in this regard. Yet these people have been doing this near daily for 5+ years and they're still in the game.

The whole system of 'tell someone to stop doing a certain thing and if they continue you can report them' is just giving bad actors a tool to try and bait people with, and being able to whisper while displaying is offline is a huge part of this. I agree it should go.

MedicInTheWild · August 11

Sadly they would have to make it also on a timer setup. They would just whisper you then go into offline mode. I think if you whisper someone they should automatically have a 10 minute timer to whisper you back.

I also think if you report people constantly for cheating with no real evidence ( I know this is a touchy thing because some things are hard to have evidence) you should be suspended or banned.

The guy that whispered me last night stated I was running a cheat engine because I went through his spell wall. I think he was experiencing a thing called lag or desync. I for one don't know if a cheat engine could even do such a thing,

Do I think cheat engines and other cheats are real. Yes. I know of a few people that as soon as you get in combat with them you start lagging on a whole other level, and multiple (20+) people have confirmed this same experience. Can we do anything, no we have no evidence and I dont know if ZOS we even attempt to find out if you reported the suspicious activity.

WaywardArgonian · August 11

MedicInTheWild wrote: »

I also think if you report people constantly for cheating with no real evidence ( I know this is a touchy thing because some things are hard to have evidence) you should be suspended or banned.

Yes. I know of at least 2 players who threaten to report literally everyone who lands a killing blow on them, and they have been doing this for many years. I honestly struggle to understand how these people still have their accounts when others have gotten in trouble over much less.

xylena_lazarow · August 13

It's a hard problem to solve, but they can definitely start by getting rid of offline whispers. That alone will cut down on a ton of poor behavior, once you remove their ability to hide from immediate consequences.

Tigor · August 13

Cheating is not allowed.

Highwayman · August 13

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

It's a hard problem to solve, but they can definitely start by getting rid of offline whispers. That alone will cut down on a ton of poor behavior, once you remove their ability to hide from immediate consequences.

Or just block them... it's not a player's job to be meting out consequences for verbal disagreements. It's fine if you don't want to just move on... I have my moments too, but it's not the end of the world if you can't talk *** back to someone talking ***.

I do agree that the threatening reporting thing is out of hand though. Don't get me wrong, my response is always, "make sure to come back and see me so you know nothing happened" or "you are the 1 millionth person to report me, you win a *vulgar emoji*!". On a non personal level though I see this a little different. It's abusing a knowledge imbalance to intimidate others and it's surely effective in a lot of cases. Most people don't sit down and familiarize themselves with the enforcement tendencies of game admins.

I could absolutely see and support making the act of threating reporting a ban of some kind. If there is something worth reporting, just report it. There is literally nothing gained ever allowing this even in trivial examples.

xylena_lazarow · August 13

Highwayman wrote: »

Or just block them... it's not a player's job to be meting out consequences for verbal disagreements.

It gives anyone a "free shot" for abusive behavior though. Why give them that much? Nobody needs to be able to chat from offline mode, anything you don't want in game can be done over Discord these days. Players are catching on to the policy, they know if they're told to stop a certain behavior, they're on thin ice. No need to allow these guys to hide offline.

tincanman · August 13

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

It's a hard problem to solve, but they can definitely start by getting rid of offline whispers. That alone will cut down on a ton of poor behavior, once you remove their ability to hide from immediate consequences.

Would also eliminate the more general problem of forgetting you're in offline mode when whispering others(friends/guildies/allies), thinking you're being ignored or they're busy and later discovering you just annoyed someone/others who had tried and failed to reply to you.

Not sure why it was ever allowed in the first place. Other than trolling, there just doesn't seem to be a reason for such a 'feature' to exist.

JDredd · August 19

Just disable the whispers when someone in offline mode with a timer on ability to go offline immediately after coming online. easy fix. Or just remove the option all together. Be offline only when you are not playing. If you are logged in, you should just be away or online.

Einstein_ · August 19

There is not a single hour of playtime in cyrodil for me without a whisper of somebody.

They call me write me:
"Stop your cheating"...
"You have infinite recourses hack"....
"you will get banned for that "".....
"you are ruining the fun for others with your elitarity"
"how can you cast so many skills in 1s".....(spoiler i am also bound to CCD)

and its always the same ppl on PC/EU, since i am not allowed to Name them but.....just guess
- some EP guy reporting me in 5 guilds
- some EP woman with verry interesting english
- Some guy on EP who is often seen on a WW tank
- some AD guy that changed to DC (famous zonechat warrior)
- and many many more from all sides

I was always wondering if this is also against ZOS TOS ? @ZOS_GinaBruno
or do i just get banned if i teabag this ppl that /w me everyday the same (snip)?

adirondack · August 19

All good points here especially about offline.

I play in offline mode a LOT for a multitude of reasons. Some reasons are protective - I don’t like my pvp interrupted by other guilds asking me to join their PVE raids or other such silly things.

Other times I’m not 100% in the game and Do Not Disturb doesn’t seem enough to discourage friends and guildies from adding me to group when I’m sorta playing but mostly working.

However all my above reasons pale with the logic of the above posts and I would be satisfied without offline if it keeps people most honest and forthright in their whispers to each other.

Remember it’s a game and we are here to have fun. If you run into a person you can’t beat it’s likely because they are just better. And that’s okay! It is after all just a game. Unless they are flying around or spamming meteors they probably aren’t cheating. Just do try to be civil. That person might be on your team next campaign.

Build relationships don’t destroy them.

eternalshockcable · August 23

In an competitive environment accusations are easily thrown around.

First we must all understand at a player level there is no way to verify if someone is or is not cheating. It is hard not to fall into that category of calling someone a "suspected cheater". We should not condone such actions and not fall into this ourselves. Someone could be better in skill. Yet, No one is perfect in their reactions. It is hard to give a "Good Game" but that would be the correct response. We must strive to be better as a community.

WaywardArgonian · August 23

Einstein_ wrote: »

There is not a single hour of playtime in cyrodil for me without a whisper of somebody.

They call me write me:
"Stop your cheating"...
"You have infinite recourses hack"....
"you will get banned for that "".....
"you are ruining the fun for others with your elitarity"
"how can you cast so many skills in 1s".....(spoiler i am also bound to CCD)

and its always the same ppl on PC/EU, since i am not allowed to Name them but.....just guess
- some EP guy reporting me in 5 guilds
- some EP woman with verry interesting english
- Some guy on EP who is often seen on a WW tank
- some AD guy that changed to DC (famous zonechat warrior)
- and many many more from all sides

I was always wondering if this is also against ZOS TOS ? @ZOS_GinaBruno
or do i just get banned if i teabag this ppl that /w me everyday the same (snip)?

A little tangent:

I know which people you are talking about and I don't think you could find a single Cyrodiil regular on this server who hasn't been poked by at least one of them over the years.

Some of them still whisper me every time without fail if I happen to land a killing blow on them with my healer. This and the abundance of whispers/stories I've seen from other people all over the EU PVP community lead me to believe they spend entire evenings in Cyrodiil harassing everyone who KBs them, calling them names, accusing them of cheating, and threatening them with bans. Given most of them have been around since I started playing PVP, they have likely been doing this without pause for 4-5 years.

It can be funny at first for experienced players who are used to this kind of nonsense, but I occasionally have to explain this stuff to newer players who are genuinely worried they are getting falsely reported for something they didn't do and are risking a ban. So at this point I don't think it is very funny, and blocking these people doesn't make the problem go away.

How any of them still have their accounts is one of the most enduring mysteries of the game.

derkaiserliche · August 23

stop cheating then finally

WaywardArgonian · August 23

You can see this mentality on display in this thread quite well. People make baseless blanket statements about cheaters and they feel entitled to harass essentially random players in whispers.

Which begs the question, if you are genuinely convinced someone is cheating, just clip it and report them. What is the added value of messaging them about it other than an attempt at intimidation?

mook-eb16_ESO · August 24

It would be nice if zos engages with the community though about cheating. Overwatch released a statement which said.

"Cheating is an on-going problem in every skill-based game, and Overwatch 2 is no exception. Cheating is a premeditative behavior where a player deliberately intends to ruin the experience for others, and is not tolerated in our community. Cheats like aimbots and wallhacks wreck the experience for all players. Our team has been hard at work to stop the hacks and mods that enable cheating, plus remove cheaters and those who take advantage of cheaters. Today, we’re pleased to announce we have banned over 500,000 accounts that have been found to be cheating. We have also suspended or banned over 40,000 accounts that intentionally group up with cheating accounts as well.

But our work doesn’t end with just identifying and removing cheaters. It’s important to also take out hacks that enable cheats altogether. We’re hard at work on new anti-cheat technologies and looking forward to stopping cheats in their tracks. As usual, we don’t like to reveal details of what we are doing to make this happen. However, we hope that by showing the efforts to remove a half-a-million cheaters from the game shows, we’ve made great strides to stop cheaters in their tracks and will always continue to do so."

But I don't feel like zos takes it that seriously. When did you see anything like this from zos?

darvaria · August 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

It's a hard problem to solve, but they can definitely start by getting rid of offline whispers. That alone will cut down on a ton of poor behavior, once you remove their ability to hide from immediate consequences.

^ This should have been implemented years ago.

MedicInTheWild · September 8

Sadly it wont be because it dont seem to fit in the development schedule due to housing and crown store items.

ForumSavant · September 16

If people are accusing you of cheating in a private message then just take it as a compliment. The report won't do anything. The real issue is people publicly stating that certain players are cheating because it creates a witch hunt mob mindset. People like that should be banned for trying to rile up a witch hunt.

If you get reported for cheating and you aren't doing anything, just keep playing like nothing happened, and laugh at the whispers.

ZeroAxis · September 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Highwayman wrote: »

Or just block them... it's not a player's job to be meting out consequences for verbal disagreements.

It gives anyone a "free shot" for abusive behavior though. Why give them that much? Nobody needs to be able to chat from offline mode, anything you don't want in game can be done over Discord these days. Players are catching on to the policy, they know if they're told to stop a certain behavior, they're on thin ice. No need to allow these guys to hide offline.

I 100% agree with this. It is cowardly above all else. If you are set to offline, you should be treated as such. Period.

Desiato · September 18

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

But I don't feel like zos takes it that seriously. When did you see anything like this from zos?

Of course they don't. We have 10 years of history. This isn't a competitive game, so they probably feel they don't have to. When a method of cheating becomes widespread enough for it to start making noise, they step in with a mitigation and ban wave, but it's extremely rare for this to happen.

Devs and publishers of popular competitive and pvp focused games understand cheating is an existential threat to them. They want their customers to know they are doing everything possible to solve the issue, so they are open about the actions they take.

Cheating is an epidemic in pretty much every pc game and definitely isn't a problem ZOS has solved. If they had, they would be making a fortune selling their solutions to everyone else. Instead, they've taken the path of ignoring the issue as much as they possibly can.