A question for ZoS regarding feedback.

LPapirius

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So here is the short version of this conversation. Yes, of course feedback, especially during PTS, is acted upon. We we were not going to look at your feedback, we would not go through the time it takes to set up a PTS cycle every time. Let alone ask you to spend your valuable time testing. Feedback is essential to how the teams discuss and frame their work.

Various teams across ZOS read and discuss PTS feedback and see what is possible in the immediate, short-term and long-term, what is possible if we build out tools to support a suggested change and the cost associated with that, and what is not possible. And from there, work toward solutions within the development timeframe we have. Many dev team members follow up with us on Community to ask about your sentiment during PTS (and throughout the year during release and patches. But for sake of this conversation, we are sticking to PTS.), and see what they can adjust. And we see a lot of the conversations be had across various teams.

However, we also need to frame some of the many aspects that we are factoring in feedback. For example one of the things to keep in mind when considering your feedback we are doing so with future plans in mind, while most of the feedback given is for the immediate, so that also can determine when and how feedback is implemented. Feedback is an important element, but one element of the overall process to get changes made. So for example, with the introduction of Luminous Inks, the main feedback was "drops are too low. Increase the number and give us more ways to get them" (being a bit reductive here just for brevity). Over the course of the last several months, for the short-term we have increased ink sourcing, and had them accessible via daily login rewards. We are observing how that works for players while also working on long-term ways to address the need for more inks as we know that is still an ask after those updates. This is a process that takes time to make sure we don't go too far in the other direction, and undermine the gameplay experience in other ways.

So to recap, feedback is highly valued here, not ignored. Your opinions do matter and we want to hear them. That said, not everything will be implemented (that's just how game development works). However we push to implement as much feedback as we can into tangible action where it makes sense, and sometimes that takes time. And don't get us wrong, we don't always get it right, but we continue to iterate process and adjust to better meet expectation.

Now we know we said this would keep short, so let's end with this. We'll make sure to take this back to the team and have a general conversation on how to make this process better as well.

Ahem. ...something something jabs animation. (nobody asked for it, and most everyone hated it. People still post about how bad it is. Who at ZOS has listened to or heard the feedback on this?)

LPapirius

ZOS' system of feedback is far too automated. The first reply we get to, I think any communication we initiate with ZOS, is first responded to with an automated reply. Sometimes the second and even third "reply" we get from ZOS is also automated and canned. It's like the phone maze when trying to talk to a representative at the IRS or something.

StarOfElyon

pklemming wrote: »

So, you have had plenty of feedback regarding these potential changes, through every section of this PTS cycle. What I am wanting to know is what changes will have been adopted(if any) before this patch is pushed live?

What I am trying to ascertain is the efficacy of both this forum and the feedback we give. Whether any of it is ever acted upon, or whether this is just purely for show.

Like other patches, there have been a lot of changes that have not been wanted by the players. Despite this dislike, you appear to push them to live, regardless.

Is there actually any point us giving feedback, or even posting on this forum, if nothing we write is listened to, and acted upon?

What I suspect will happen, is exactly the same as usual. Feedback is ignored, our opinion makes zero difference and you push the patch live regardless.

Considering your current trend in numbers, is this really a policy that is good to adopt? The next patch will not be received with pleasure by the players, which makes me wonder why this stance is taken. As I have mentioned previously, ultimately, a game is for fun. Constantly giving players bad news is hardly good for business.

Much like the class rep program got sunsetted, I think the idea of communication and feedback through these forums are a thing of the past. It just hasn't been announced yet. But it's been very obvious to me since the change to Blastbones that things are different. Maybe it has something to do with a change in ownership. Roles at ZOS have changed. Gina has moved to a higher position. These forums are just for us to talk to each other now.

Stafford197

StarOfElyon wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

So, you have had plenty of feedback regarding these potential changes, through every section of this PTS cycle. What I am wanting to know is what changes will have been adopted(if any) before this patch is pushed live?

What I am trying to ascertain is the efficacy of both this forum and the feedback we give. Whether any of it is ever acted upon, or whether this is just purely for show.

Like other patches, there have been a lot of changes that have not been wanted by the players. Despite this dislike, you appear to push them to live, regardless.

Is there actually any point us giving feedback, or even posting on this forum, if nothing we write is listened to, and acted upon?

What I suspect will happen, is exactly the same as usual. Feedback is ignored, our opinion makes zero difference and you push the patch live regardless.

Considering your current trend in numbers, is this really a policy that is good to adopt? The next patch will not be received with pleasure by the players, which makes me wonder why this stance is taken. As I have mentioned previously, ultimately, a game is for fun. Constantly giving players bad news is hardly good for business.

Much like the class rep program got sunsetted, I think the idea of communication and feedback through these forums are a thing of the past. It just hasn't been announced yet. But it's been very obvious to me since the change to Blastbones that things are different. Maybe it has something to do with a change in ownership. Roles at ZOS have changed. Gina has moved to a higher position. These forums are just for us to talk to each other now.

It’s a shame for sure. What’s so sad about it all is ZOS had the one in a million opportunity to make an Elder Scrolls MMO… and they butchered it. This game had every opportunity to become as big as WoW used to be, especially since this game was teased during the hype born from TES5: Skyrim.

Yet the game was doomed from the start due to horrific design decisions. ESO wasn’t planning to implement First Person POV. They also launched the game incredibly early, leading to a game lacking essential features such as the Justice System (Stolen items didn’t exist).

My only guess is that management are not in touch enough with their community to truly understand what players want. And after 10 years of bad decisions, the game has built its reputation up to where most gamers know to avoid it. However, the game clings easily onto a far smaller yet established playerbase of TES players who will accept anything since it is a TES game. Bad Balance changes, Less content, No communication, etc - no problem. Personally I log on from time to time to play with friends, but I can’t justify spending money here with how bad things have gotten especially this year.

Thumbless_Bot

Stafford197 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

So, you have had plenty of feedback regarding these potential changes, through every section of this PTS cycle. What I am wanting to know is what changes will have been adopted(if any) before this patch is pushed live?

What I am trying to ascertain is the efficacy of both this forum and the feedback we give. Whether any of it is ever acted upon, or whether this is just purely for show.

Like other patches, there have been a lot of changes that have not been wanted by the players. Despite this dislike, you appear to push them to live, regardless.

Is there actually any point us giving feedback, or even posting on this forum, if nothing we write is listened to, and acted upon?

What I suspect will happen, is exactly the same as usual. Feedback is ignored, our opinion makes zero difference and you push the patch live regardless.

Considering your current trend in numbers, is this really a policy that is good to adopt? The next patch will not be received with pleasure by the players, which makes me wonder why this stance is taken. As I have mentioned previously, ultimately, a game is for fun. Constantly giving players bad news is hardly good for business.

Much like the class rep program got sunsetted, I think the idea of communication and feedback through these forums are a thing of the past. It just hasn't been announced yet. But it's been very obvious to me since the change to Blastbones that things are different. Maybe it has something to do with a change in ownership. Roles at ZOS have changed. Gina has moved to a higher position. These forums are just for us to talk to each other now.

It’s a shame for sure. What’s so sad about it all is ZOS had the one in a million opportunity to make an Elder Scrolls MMO… and they butchered it. This game had every opportunity to become as big as WoW used to be, especially since this game was teased during the hype born from TES5: Skyrim.

Yet the game was doomed from the start due to horrific design decisions. ESO wasn’t planning to implement First Person POV. They also launched the game incredibly early, leading to a game lacking essential features such as the Justice System (Stolen items didn’t exist).

My only guess is that management are not in touch enough with their community to truly understand what players want. And after 10 years of bad decisions, the game has built its reputation up to where most gamers know to avoid it. However, the game clings easily onto a far smaller yet established playerbase of TES players who will accept anything since it is a TES game. Bad Balance changes, Less content, No communication, etc - no problem. Personally I log on from time to time to play with friends, but I can’t justify spending money here with how bad things have gotten especially this year.

Bad decisions happen.... to everyone... that's fine with me.. what I have a problem with is when they propose changes, receive a literal monsoon of negative feedback about it and implement it anyway... and don't respond to the monsoon... at all. We are then left to enjoy the game we love just a little bit less each time... these things add up.

I would add that I completely understand that some changes have to be made for the health of the game and I can completely understand why this wouldn't be broadcast. For example, normalizing DOTs to 2 seconds was 100% to reduce the number of server side calculations. You can't run a business and admit that.

Also there are changes that help people play who otherwise might not be able to. This is good for the game, even if it is not good for me or how I play. I get this too and welcome it.

However, most of the changes that the community rail agaonst do not fall into these categories and are absolutely bewildering, unneeded, unwanted and make the game less fun for most players.

necro_the_crafter

Im not a community manager, but i guess players would love to see Q&A with devs at least at the end of every pts cycle.

Bare minimum would be a post on forum where devs answer to the questions or give their comments for most viewed topics.

Ideally a live stream where teams read most viewed topics, or most upvoted comments, and gives us they live reaction and answers. In my opinion this would be really fun for both players and dev teams, and also a nice uniqe pr move.