Concerns About Tel Var Currency and Flower Satchels in the Imperial City

SteveCampsOut · July 30

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

Dear Elder Scrolls Online Community,

I am writing to express my concerns regarding the current state of the Tel Var currency, particularly in relation to purchasing flower satchels in the Imperial City. As a dedicated player, I’ve noticed significant imbalances and issues that I believe are detrimental to both new and veteran players alike.

Issue of Imbalance:
The process of farming flowers in beginner zones is bad, yielding approximately a stack of flowers per hour. In stark contrast, farming Tel Var in the Imperial City, even under the bad conditions, nets around 200k-400k Tel Var per hour. Considering each satchel costs 500 Tel Var and only gives 10-16 pieces of random flowers, this discrepancy is quite stark. Farming Tel Var to buy flower satchels is simply ridiculous compared to directly farming the flowers.

Monopoly and Unfair Competition:
The current system inadvertently promotes monopolistic behavior. Players or groups who dominate the Imperial City can essentially control the Tel Var flow, creating an environment where newer players or those less equipped struggle to compete. This disparity is exacerbated by the fact that players with substantial Tel Var reserves can potentially sell gold, introducing a pay-to-win element that is unfair and discouraging.

Impact on New Players:
For new players, especially those on the PlayStation EU server (my primary server), this creates a hostile and unwelcoming environment. The steep learning curve and the difficulty in acquiring resources make it hard for new players to progress, diminishing their gaming experience. This is compounded by experienced players who, feeling entitled to certain zones, may intimidate or threaten others to maintain their perceived control over the area.

Suggestions for Improvement:

1. Remove Flower Satchels Completely: The current system of buying flower satchels with Tel Var is imbalanced and should be removed entirely. This would eliminate the incentive for monopolistic behavior and reduce the pay-to-win aspect of the game.

2. Encourage Fair Play: Introduce stricter penalties for players who engage in harassment or threats within the Imperial City, fostering a more inclusive and fair environment.

I hope these issues are taken into serious consideration. The current exploitation of flower satchels and Tel Var currency not only affects the economy but also the overall player experience. Addressing these concerns would go a long way in making Elder Scrolls Online a more balanced and enjoyable game for everyone.

Thank you for your attention and understanding.

Best regards,
A concerned Guildmaster of Sparta and RedPoint.

If you're spending Telvar on Alchemy ingredients, you're doing it wrong!

xylena_lazarow · July 30

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

"Monopolistic Behavior" just sounds like you can't kill their group. Get some players together to wipe them. I promise you they will leave.

You gonna pull together a hardcore group to take down pro farmers every time you wanna grind IC? Maybe you will. There are definitely cartels and they even use spais in case allied randoms try to cut into their profits.

XperiencedTBAG · July 30

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

"Monopolistic Behavior" just sounds like you can't kill their group. Get some players together to wipe them. I promise you they will leave.

You gonna pull together a hardcore group to take down pro farmers every time you wanna grind IC? Maybe you will. There are definitely cartels and they even use spais in case allied randoms try to cut into their profits.

Basically, most of the messages in this topic have been from PC gamers. We need more console players’ perspectives. The player base on PC is way bigger than on console, so hitting 200k-400k Tel Var per hour on PC could be impossible. I don’t know—I haven’t played on PC. However, I know it is achievable on low player count servers like the PlayStation servers.

Many of you are looking at this from a PC perspective, where there might not be an issue, and that’s great. But on console, the story is different.

One person mentioned doing alchemy surveys and you’re good. Lol. That’s peanuts compared to what you can get in the Imperial City on console.

My knowledge is based on the PlayStation EU server, while many of you have only PC knowledge. Before slamming this issue, honestly visit the console server. I guarantee the game is different from what you experience on PC. With all the addons on PC, it is a more superior and better game in general.

The problem with these forums is that you need permission to join and write. Many of my friends or members don’t want to spend time making a ticket to get on the forums. So, I made a survey and the results were astonishing. Almost everyone said there is monopolistic behavior, gold selling, harassment, and mass report threatening in the Imperial City.

Now, maybe the next commenter will say “report, block, blah, blah.” And then what? Sure, maybe a ban is a possibility, but what’s the point when the person makes a new account and starts all over again?

TaSheen · July 30

One cannot "just visit the console server". One first has to buy the appropriate console, then purchase the game for that platform. Sure, some pc folks already have a console. But I wouldn't bet on them being a majority of people posting here.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 30

Well PSNA, I've never seen anything remotely resembling a cartel in IC. I'm not a PVPer but I love the IC dailies so I go there on the regular.

Nharimlur_Finor · July 30

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Dude... you completely missed the topic. They are not talking about large trading guilds, they are talking about tel var farming groups that monopolize the entire server. They don't let anybody pvp in IC, or farm anything in IC, they threaten people, harass people constantly, that is what the topic is about, not large trading guilds.

Well Miss, how can you be sure that the two things are not the same thing?

XperiencedTBAG · July 30

TaSheen wrote: »

One cannot "just visit the console server". One first has to buy the appropriate console, then purchase the game for that platform. Sure, some pc folks already have a console. But I wouldn't bet on them being a majority of people posting here.

There are two clear indicators: the platform of their profile and the things they’ve been saying. It’s pretty easy to determine what platform they’re on.

The main point is that this is a significant issue, at least on the PS EU server. This isn’t about skill or gameplay—it’s about addressing a larger problem. If the entire Imperial City hustle is being run as a business, that’s a major concern.

FlopsyPrince · July 30

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Im on PSeu and I can confirm there is a Telwar cartel on this server that owns IC

What exactly does this mean? In order to farm IC efficiently, it needs to be turned one colour. If you're that faction and you farm IC, do members of the cartel log on to another faction and take you out? While your ostensible faction-mates stand by and watch? I have rarely seen this type of behavior other than as part of duelling etiquette, which is quite different. Even if that happens on PS EU, I don't see how ZOS could police it and I certainly don't see that this should be handled via game system changes affecting all platforms.

Well you can switch to a character for whatever alliance or just ignore the problem as you don't have to go near the opposing base. I often have a server to myself late at night. Sometimes it a no CP one, but it doesn't affect my ability burn down trash mobs by very much.

If I read you correctly, then that would be my point as well. If you're a solo player in IC, play a solo build. I think nightblade is best for bringing Tel Var home, but you could be a sorc or whatever your poison is. You could be a mist-forming / sprinting stage 4 vamp on any class and that would probably work, or be tanky and port out to Cyro to save Tel Var. In the absense of tankiness, you can use the Esoteric Greaves and basically be gank-proof. As a nightblade you then disappear. Unless a whole "cartel" sneaks up on you systematically as a group, there is IMO nothing stopping you from taking Tel Var out of IC. If you don't want to be abused in chat, you go offline or turn chat off.

Ok, mostly I was commenting that I just don't see another player of any flavour when I'm there. It's just me and the NPCs. If an opposing faction owns the district I just avoid the guard NPCs. I do not really farm telvar much. But it's mostly because it gets so repetitive...

If I do come upon other players it's usually a small group. Nothing in any way organized. Sometimes there will be a single ganker picking people off who are doing quests. If something like that happens I just go to no CP. That usually solves the problem.

I find I pull a LOT more mobs in no-CP IC. The detect range gets very large (even without sneaking). Grabbing the 4 skeletons can be tough in that case! Though it can be worse with a ganker, so that is a point.

XperiencedTBAG · July 30

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Well PSNA, I've never seen anything remotely resembling a cartel in IC. I'm not a PVPer but I love the IC dailies so I go there on the regular.

Well, yes, I'm not saying that people start approaching you the moment you enter the sewers. The best Tel Var farm isn't in the sewers; it's in the districts where each district has a boss. Killing these bosses gives you significantly more Tel Var than what you get in the sewers. That's where all the monopolistic behavior and harassment happen—not in the sewers. They don't care about the sewers because the real Tel Var gains are in the districts.

merevie · July 30

It is an event that lasts two weeks. IC is usually mostly empty.

Columbine will never be 6k again for OTHER reasons that a trade guild can set out. The fact that pvers were flipping this resource for 6k each three months ago WAS a source of outrage.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 30

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Well PSNA, I've never seen anything remotely resembling a cartel in IC. I'm not a PVPer but I love the IC dailies so I go there on the regular.

Well, yes, I'm not saying that people start approaching you the moment you enter the sewers. The best Tel Var farm isn't in the sewers; it's in the districts where each district has a boss. Killing these bosses gives you significantly more Tel Var than what you get in the sewers. That's where all the monopolistic behavior and harassment happen—not in the sewers. They don't care about the sewers because the real Tel Var gains are in the districts.

The dallies I'm talking about are in the districts. I usually start with Arena. Other than the alliance base I don't go into the sewers.

GeneralGrundmann · July 30

fred4 wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

14k telwar for killing one boss, if you control IC you can easily get 200k telwar within 1 hour.

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

Regarding Tel Var farming rates, it's indeed challenging on busy servers, but with the right strategies and during certain times, it's possible to reach those high numbers, even if it's not common.

Bosses spawn every 15 minutes. Within one hour, you have 6 x 4 = 24 bosses available. I believe the exact drop size is 13.7K, but let's round it to up to 14K. 24 x 14 = 336K Tel Var. The following is what achieving that number would entail:
Your faction owns IC throughout the period.

You're alone farming bosses.

You spend 2.5 minutes per boss.

The fastest I've seen someone solo a boss was around 90 seconds. You then need time to get to the next one. In the case of Noble's, you'll have to search for it. You'll be in a full PvE setup, or something close to it. A typical soloing time for me, in a PvP setup, is 5 minutes, not 90 seconds.

In practice, I agree up to ~100K Tel Var per hour can happen, but it's completely unpredictable. It means you live in IC and were lucky to be there at the right time.

I can't speak to the statistics for PS EU. It sounds to me like it's simply deserted.

Just want to add that out of my experience your math is totally correct.

Last Mayhem I was in IC under the week between 3.30 am and 4.00 am. I was totally alone, all districts were already under control of my faction, I got the 4x multiplier, all bosses were active and I was able to solo six bosses before at 4.00 am suddenly lots of other players flooded "my" IC campaign and I had to teleport back to my homebase. Made over 160K Tel Var in these 30 minutes. Personal best half hour in IC ever.

ZOS_Icy · July 30

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Heelie · July 30

As an IC player these numbers are of course ridiculous the only time I came close to these numbers was when I made 2 million telvar in 3 hours in the PvP event in May last year. This was on a bomb build and I was lucky to hit a few guilds trying to farm bosses. Probably some of these players forgot to bank after years of log-in rewards. Tracking boss spawns on a dedicated build and getting no competition I have seen numbers just touching 6 figures an hour. But this is with all bosses up at the start. But the point here is not the telvar per hour the question is if sachels are bad. And I think not, ESOs largest economic problem right now is inflation. Mainly due to crown selling in my opinion. But since that is never going away the best way to fight it is supply. Which is what the satchel does. If anything buffing the other supplies of flowers is the only alternative. The satchel also plays a vital role in that it keeps prices on Hakeijo runes up (which in turn drives player numbers). Without the satchel, Hakeijo is the only other practical way of converting telvar to gold. Hakeijo has the value of 10 satchels of flowers. Flower prices decide its worth. No offense to the OP here, the concern is real. However, the proposed solution does not work in a more full scope of the situation.

GuuMoonRyoung · July 30

LaintalAy wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Dude... you completely missed the topic. They are not talking about large trading guilds, they are talking about tel var farming groups that monopolize the entire server. They don't let anybody pvp in IC, or farm anything in IC, they threaten people, harass people constantly, that is what the topic is about, not large trading guilds.

Well Miss, how can you be sure that the two things are not the same thing?

Clearly, you have no idea how trading guilds work. I am not going to entertain you with anymore reply, I have seen you commenting on few other topics, I don't think you are worth the effort.

GuuMoonRyoung · July 30

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

Dear Elder Scrolls Online Community,

I am writing to express my concerns regarding the current state of the Tel Var currency, particularly in relation to purchasing flower satchels in the Imperial City. As a dedicated player, I’ve noticed significant imbalances and issues that I believe are detrimental to both new and veteran players alike.

Issue of Imbalance:
The process of farming flowers in beginner zones is bad, yielding approximately a stack of flowers per hour. In stark contrast, farming Tel Var in the Imperial City, even under the bad conditions, nets around 200k-400k Tel Var per hour. Considering each satchel costs 500 Tel Var and only gives 10-16 pieces of random flowers, this discrepancy is quite stark. Farming Tel Var to buy flower satchels is simply ridiculous compared to directly farming the flowers.

Monopoly and Unfair Competition:
The current system inadvertently promotes monopolistic behavior. Players or groups who dominate the Imperial City can essentially control the Tel Var flow, creating an environment where newer players or those less equipped struggle to compete. This disparity is exacerbated by the fact that players with substantial Tel Var reserves can potentially sell gold, introducing a pay-to-win element that is unfair and discouraging.

Impact on New Players:
For new players, especially those on the PlayStation EU server (my primary server), this creates a hostile and unwelcoming environment. The steep learning curve and the difficulty in acquiring resources make it hard for new players to progress, diminishing their gaming experience. This is compounded by experienced players who, feeling entitled to certain zones, may intimidate or threaten others to maintain their perceived control over the area.

Suggestions for Improvement:

1. Remove Flower Satchels Completely: The current system of buying flower satchels with Tel Var is imbalanced and should be removed entirely. This would eliminate the incentive for monopolistic behavior and reduce the pay-to-win aspect of the game.

2. Encourage Fair Play: Introduce stricter penalties for players who engage in harassment or threats within the Imperial City, fostering a more inclusive and fair environment.

I hope these issues are taken into serious consideration. The current exploitation of flower satchels and Tel Var currency not only affects the economy but also the overall player experience. Addressing these concerns would go a long way in making Elder Scrolls Online a more balanced and enjoyable game for everyone.

Thank you for your attention and understanding.

Best regards,
A concerned Guildmaster of Sparta and RedPoint.

After reading all of your posts in this thread, I have realized that you see this problem as a nail that needs a hammer bashing. It is not, and your solutions are not practical or actual solutions.

First one, complete and utter nonsense. I don't think legit PvPers should be punished for the crimes of exploiters, they should not have to lose a resource because others are exploiting a part of the system.

Second one, makes partial sense but it is impossible, I have been playing mmorpg for a long time and never have I seen a single one where PvP is truly fair and encourages fairness or makes it "inclusive" for everyone. The very idea of PvP in mmorpg has always been, to simply put, measuring *** size! It is never going to change! There will be people who would group up together, make the group as big as possible, and zerg the *** out of opponents.

It will never stop because it can not be stopped, GW2 tried it and they killed their game. Yeah, the game still has "healthy" population, but it had an even larger one when PvP WvW was not so moderated.

If you want truly fair PvP, I suggest you play League of Legends, or DOTA2 or even Smite! You are never going to find truly fair PvP in mmorpg, it is not possible. It may seem like you had fair PvP in another mmorpg but you feel that way because you remember it with nostalgia infused rose tinted glasses.

XperiencedTBAG · July 30

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

Dear Elder Scrolls Online Community,

I am writing to express my concerns regarding the current state of the Tel Var currency, particularly in relation to purchasing flower satchels in the Imperial City. As a dedicated player, I’ve noticed significant imbalances and issues that I believe are detrimental to both new and veteran players alike.

Issue of Imbalance:
The process of farming flowers in beginner zones is bad, yielding approximately a stack of flowers per hour. In stark contrast, farming Tel Var in the Imperial City, even under the bad conditions, nets around 200k-400k Tel Var per hour. Considering each satchel costs 500 Tel Var and only gives 10-16 pieces of random flowers, this discrepancy is quite stark. Farming Tel Var to buy flower satchels is simply ridiculous compared to directly farming the flowers.

Monopoly and Unfair Competition:
The current system inadvertently promotes monopolistic behavior. Players or groups who dominate the Imperial City can essentially control the Tel Var flow, creating an environment where newer players or those less equipped struggle to compete. This disparity is exacerbated by the fact that players with substantial Tel Var reserves can potentially sell gold, introducing a pay-to-win element that is unfair and discouraging.

Impact on New Players:
For new players, especially those on the PlayStation EU server (my primary server), this creates a hostile and unwelcoming environment. The steep learning curve and the difficulty in acquiring resources make it hard for new players to progress, diminishing their gaming experience. This is compounded by experienced players who, feeling entitled to certain zones, may intimidate or threaten others to maintain their perceived control over the area.

Suggestions for Improvement:

1. Remove Flower Satchels Completely: The current system of buying flower satchels with Tel Var is imbalanced and should be removed entirely. This would eliminate the incentive for monopolistic behavior and reduce the pay-to-win aspect of the game.

2. Encourage Fair Play: Introduce stricter penalties for players who engage in harassment or threats within the Imperial City, fostering a more inclusive and fair environment.

I hope these issues are taken into serious consideration. The current exploitation of flower satchels and Tel Var currency not only affects the economy but also the overall player experience. Addressing these concerns would go a long way in making Elder Scrolls Online a more balanced and enjoyable game for everyone.

Thank you for your attention and understanding.

Best regards,
A concerned Guildmaster of Sparta and RedPoint.

After reading all of your posts in this thread, I have realized that you see this problem as a nail that needs a hammer bashing. It is not, and your solutions are not practical or actual solutions.

First one, complete and utter nonsense. I don't think legit PvPers should be punished for the crimes of exploiters, they should not have to lose a resource because others are exploiting a part of the system.

Second one, makes partial sense but it is impossible, I have been playing mmorpg for a long time and never have I seen a single one where PvP is truly fair and encourages fairness or makes it "inclusive" for everyone. The very idea of PvP in mmorpg has always been, to simply put, measuring *** size! It is never going to change! There will be people who would group up together, make the group as big as possible, and zerg the *** out of opponents.

It will never stop because it can not be stopped, GW2 tried it and they killed their game. Yeah, the game still has "healthy" population, but it had an even larger one when PvP WvW was not so moderated.

If you want truly fair PvP, I suggest you play League of Legends, or DOTA2 or even Smite! You are never going to find truly fair PvP in mmorpg, it is not possible. It may seem like you had fair PvP in another mmorpg but you feel that way because you remember it with nostalgia infused rose tinted glasses.

Thank you for your input and opinion. While I respect your detailed approach and carefully read your post, I must say that from a console perspective, you’re wrong.

xylena_lazarow · July 30

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

However, I know it is achievable on low player count servers like the PlayStation servers.

Yes there are telvar cartels on PC, player count in IC is low most of the day, especially on the NoCp server.

Ishtarknows · July 30

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

Thank you for your input and opinion. While I respect your detailed approach and carefully read your post, I must say that from a console perspective, you’re wrong.

Please clarify that you speak for PS EU only.
The experience in Xbox EU is not the same and you've not mentioned any proof for the same thing happening to the other 2 console servers. There are 4 console servers. You do not speak for all of us.

EdjeSwift · July 30

Ishtarknows wrote: »

XperiencedTBAG wrote: »

Thank you for your input and opinion. While I respect your detailed approach and carefully read your post, I must say that from a console perspective, you’re wrong.

Please clarify that you speak for PS EU only.
The experience in Xbox EU is not the same and you've not mentioned any proof for the same thing happening to the other 2 console servers. There are 4 console servers. You do not speak for all of us.

I've stated before and this use states again, this right here is the major issue with the original premise of "remove Apothecary Satchels" from the game the OP posited in their Original Post. They bring their issue as a huge systemic issue which should be applied to all 6 servers(PCNA, PCEU, XBNA, XBEU, PSNA and PSEU) yet only applies to one of them.

SilentHil · July 30

People who dont know ic or never seen an ic boss shouldnt comment.
As for op, your nightmare is not ps eu in this matter, its psna.
"!excluding event!" 24H time of IC is divided into 4 hour periods for cartel members to farm. They farm with 2-3 ppl each time.
but if u come with 5 players to confront them ,they call other members and become 6-10 and drive you back out.
U try ganking them they put a member with your faction to follow you and tell your whereabouts. if u try farming with them another members of their group ganks you.

Math: 6 bosses every 15min. each boss gives 14.3k with 4x multiplier. 4x 6 = 24 bosses an hour. that amounts to 24x14.3 = 343k telvar per hour.
With right gear one person can solo bosses in 1.5 minutes. so its very much doable to kill all 6 bosses in 15 minutes.But cartels farm with 2-3 ppl where they can do a full rotation in 6 minutes and watch tiktok while waiting for bosses to respawn.

People on pc , your experience is very different because bots are sourcing your alchemy plants. On console IC sources %95 of flowers.Thats why telvar farming in ic on PC is not profitable.

Though there is no solution to this problem without braking balance of the game. i feel op's pain.

ESO_player123 · July 30

SilentHil wrote: »

People who dont know ic or never seen an ic boss shouldnt comment.
As for op, your nightmare is not ps eu in this matter, its psna.
"!excluding event!" 24H time of IC is divided into 4 hour periods for cartel members to farm. They farm with 2-3 ppl each time.
but if u come with 5 players to confront them ,they call other members and become 6-10 and drive you back out.
U try ganking them they put a member with your faction to follow you and tell your whereabouts. if u try farming with them another members of their group ganks you.

Math: 6 bosses every 15min. each boss gives 14.3k with 4x multiplier. 4x 6 = 24 bosses an hour. that amounts to 24x14.3 = 343k telvar per hour.
With right gear one person can solo bosses in 1.5 minutes. so its very much doable to kill all 6 bosses in 15 minutes.But cartels farm with 2-3 ppl where they can do a full rotation in 6 minutes and watch tiktok while waiting for bosses to respawn.

People on pc , your experience is very different because bots are sourcing your alchemy plants. On console IC sources %95 of flowers.Thats why telvar farming in ic on PC is not profitable.

Though there is no solution to this problem without braking balance of the game. i feel op's pain.

I do not PvP, so these issues do not bother me. But I've never seen a bot on PC NA. It does not mean that they do not exist, but definitely not in the numbers to "source our alchemy plants". I've played an MMORPG with bot trains, so what we have on PC NA (if anything) is nothing compared to that.

Heelie · July 30

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilentHil wrote: »

People who dont know ic or never seen an ic boss shouldnt comment.
As for op, your nightmare is not ps eu in this matter, its psna.
"!excluding event!" 24H time of IC is divided into 4 hour periods for cartel members to farm. They farm with 2-3 ppl each time.
but if u come with 5 players to confront them ,they call other members and become 6-10 and drive you back out.
U try ganking them they put a member with your faction to follow you and tell your whereabouts. if u try farming with them another members of their group ganks you.

Math: 6 bosses every 15min. each boss gives 14.3k with 4x multiplier. 4x 6 = 24 bosses an hour. that amounts to 24x14.3 = 343k telvar per hour.
With right gear one person can solo bosses in 1.5 minutes. so its very much doable to kill all 6 bosses in 15 minutes.But cartels farm with 2-3 ppl where they can do a full rotation in 6 minutes and watch tiktok while waiting for bosses to respawn.

People on pc , your experience is very different because bots are sourcing your alchemy plants. On console IC sources %95 of flowers.Thats why telvar farming in ic on PC is not profitable.

Though there is no solution to this problem without braking balance of the game. i feel op's pain.

I do not PvP, so these issues do not bother me. But I've never seen a bot on PC NA. It does not mean that they do not exist, but definitely not in the numbers to "source our alchemy plants". I've played an MMORPG with bot trains, so what we have on PC NA (if anything) is nothing compared to that.

Bots are in starter zones mostly.

ESO_player123 · July 30

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilentHil wrote: »

People who dont know ic or never seen an ic boss shouldnt comment.
As for op, your nightmare is not ps eu in this matter, its psna.
"!excluding event!" 24H time of IC is divided into 4 hour periods for cartel members to farm. They farm with 2-3 ppl each time.
but if u come with 5 players to confront them ,they call other members and become 6-10 and drive you back out.
U try ganking them they put a member with your faction to follow you and tell your whereabouts. if u try farming with them another members of their group ganks you.

Math: 6 bosses every 15min. each boss gives 14.3k with 4x multiplier. 4x 6 = 24 bosses an hour. that amounts to 24x14.3 = 343k telvar per hour.
With right gear one person can solo bosses in 1.5 minutes. so its very much doable to kill all 6 bosses in 15 minutes.But cartels farm with 2-3 ppl where they can do a full rotation in 6 minutes and watch tiktok while waiting for bosses to respawn.

People on pc , your experience is very different because bots are sourcing your alchemy plants. On console IC sources %95 of flowers.Thats why telvar farming in ic on PC is not profitable.

Though there is no solution to this problem without braking balance of the game. i feel op's pain.

I do not PvP, so these issues do not bother me. But I've never seen a bot on PC NA. It does not mean that they do not exist, but definitely not in the numbers to "source our alchemy plants". I've played an MMORPG with bot trains, so what we have on PC NA (if anything) is nothing compared to that.

Bots are in starter zones mostly.

And I'm visiting starter zones on a regular basis (dig treasure maps, farm resources for endeavors). I have never seen any bot trains like people describe seeing on consoles sometimes.

Ishtarknows · July 31

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilentHil wrote: »

People who dont know ic or never seen an ic boss shouldnt comment.
As for op, your nightmare is not ps eu in this matter, its psna.
"!excluding event!" 24H time of IC is divided into 4 hour periods for cartel members to farm. They farm with 2-3 ppl each time.
but if u come with 5 players to confront them ,they call other members and become 6-10 and drive you back out.
U try ganking them they put a member with your faction to follow you and tell your whereabouts. if u try farming with them another members of their group ganks you.

Math: 6 bosses every 15min. each boss gives 14.3k with 4x multiplier. 4x 6 = 24 bosses an hour. that amounts to 24x14.3 = 343k telvar per hour.
With right gear one person can solo bosses in 1.5 minutes. so its very much doable to kill all 6 bosses in 15 minutes.But cartels farm with 2-3 ppl where they can do a full rotation in 6 minutes and watch tiktok while waiting for bosses to respawn.

People on pc , your experience is very different because bots are sourcing your alchemy plants. On console IC sources %95 of flowers.Thats why telvar farming in ic on PC is not profitable.

Though there is no solution to this problem without braking balance of the game. i feel op's pain.

I do not PvP, so these issues do not bother me. But I've never seen a bot on PC NA. It does not mean that they do not exist, but definitely not in the numbers to "source our alchemy plants". I've played an MMORPG with bot trains, so what we have on PC NA (if anything) is nothing compared to that.

Bots are in starter zones mostly.

And I'm visiting starter zones on a regular basis (dig treasure maps, farm resources for endeavors). I have never seen any bot trains like people describe seeing on consoles sometimes.

On Xbox the bots tend not to be trains of sorcs farming mudcrabs or wolves these days.
Most bots are single sorcs farming a loop of blacksmithing/jewellery nodes in one of the starter zones. If you come across one they're easy to spot - level <10, GT something like grfjdhg, wear either nothing or the gear you leave the tutorial wearing and move in a preset manner. They will stop to look at the map at the same place every loop as a way of killing time til the nodes respawn. Unless you're looking closely they might just look like a newbie farming mats as you ride by.

ESO_player123 · July 31

Ishtarknows wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilentHil wrote: »

People who dont know ic or never seen an ic boss shouldnt comment.
As for op, your nightmare is not ps eu in this matter, its psna.
"!excluding event!" 24H time of IC is divided into 4 hour periods for cartel members to farm. They farm with 2-3 ppl each time.
but if u come with 5 players to confront them ,they call other members and become 6-10 and drive you back out.
U try ganking them they put a member with your faction to follow you and tell your whereabouts. if u try farming with them another members of their group ganks you.

Math: 6 bosses every 15min. each boss gives 14.3k with 4x multiplier. 4x 6 = 24 bosses an hour. that amounts to 24x14.3 = 343k telvar per hour.
With right gear one person can solo bosses in 1.5 minutes. so its very much doable to kill all 6 bosses in 15 minutes.But cartels farm with 2-3 ppl where they can do a full rotation in 6 minutes and watch tiktok while waiting for bosses to respawn.

People on pc , your experience is very different because bots are sourcing your alchemy plants. On console IC sources %95 of flowers.Thats why telvar farming in ic on PC is not profitable.

Though there is no solution to this problem without braking balance of the game. i feel op's pain.

I do not PvP, so these issues do not bother me. But I've never seen a bot on PC NA. It does not mean that they do not exist, but definitely not in the numbers to "source our alchemy plants". I've played an MMORPG with bot trains, so what we have on PC NA (if anything) is nothing compared to that.

Bots are in starter zones mostly.

And I'm visiting starter zones on a regular basis (dig treasure maps, farm resources for endeavors). I have never seen any bot trains like people describe seeing on consoles sometimes.

On Xbox the bots tend not to be trains of sorcs farming mudcrabs or wolves these days.
Most bots are single sorcs farming a loop of blacksmithing/jewellery nodes in one of the starter zones. If you come across one they're easy to spot - level <10, GT something like grfjdhg, wear either nothing or the gear you leave the tutorial wearing and move in a preset manner. They will stop to look at the map at the same place every loop as a way of killing time til the nodes respawn. Unless you're looking closely they might just look like a newbie farming mats as you ride by.

I'm talking about PC (PC NA to be specific), not XBOX or PS because I was replying to a poster who said that on PC "bots source our alchemy plants". I have not seen any bots in numbers that would be able to do so.

polly_saccharine · August 4

The missing information in this discussion is the key reason for the IC issues seen on the NA and EU PS4/5 server because they are the same accounts/ people, switching servers for prime farming time, and why the Apothecary Satchels are the targeted item in the OP's original post being about a 'monopoly', affecting guild traders, and playability/ access to IC for the average player.

And this has been the way since 2015. Yes, EUPS4/5 has always been the lowest pop server, so it is reasonable to think that is why this has not been brought up before, especially as the following has been a closely guarded secret, and there is no doubt it happens on every server. It is just not easy to see unless you know all the parts to the operation.

The Tel Var quantities able to be farmed, as mentioned before here, are true, and easily achieved on the EU PS4/5 server. They do have multiple characters per Alliance and do switch in order to discourage other players from entering the IC zone.

This is all-year-round and worked in pairs/ groups. During Mayhem on PSEU, over 100m in TelVar is made per player. It is all they do in the game. Competing groups, over the years, have agreed upon 'farming times'.

Someone also kindly broke down the quantities of flowers that can be gained from said Tel var farmed. But forget what you can do with the materials that become poisons. The alchemy that holds a higher value than converting to poison are sold through traders.

Poisons are incredibly cheap to make but the immediate return on selling it to the merchant is significantly profitable compared to selling the alchemy in stacks and offer a slow turn-over in traders, when slots are better used for the higher value alchemy or tr-stat or mag pots.

1 stack of Alkahest (ever wondered why it's held its value?) + 1 stack of trash alchemy + 1 stack of trash alchemy or 16 to 1 = 3,200 poison pots. 3,200 pots sold to merchant = 15,985. Easy to spot who does this by looking at the purchase history of a guild. Alkahest can also be bought with Tel Var.

Tel Var farmers, thanks to Zenithar, get a discount and so save the January mayhem boxes to open during Zenithar, hence the drop in alchemy prices shortly after Jubilee.

400k Tel Var a day can be converted to millions more ESO gold by the end of a trading week and this is where the monopoly comes in, as there are guilds that use Tel Var farmers to supply/sell them the gold to ensure their farmers have prime traders to sell the good alchemy and pots in, kicking out any player that sells alchemy or pots to ensure a monopoly is kept between the farmers and guild for flower selling, and locking out other guilds by over-bidding, and this is where the mentioned monopolising of bid spots comes in..

The other side of this that is so important for these farmers to maintain 'legitimate' guild banks is to have somewhere to put the gold because, as someone pointed out before, yes, gold sellers and bot owner banks are being targeted and ZoS is removing them from the game. Because it would be unfair on an active guild if the guild and the bank were removed from the game for gold-selling operations wouldn't it..?

The solution is not in the apothecary satchels themselves, though making them more expensive or reducing the items in them to make them comparable with what you receive in surveys, would be an idea but as mentioned, would be punishing the few legitimate players. Surveys are non-comparable, as you only get flowers from them, not any other alchemy ingredient unless surveys were changed to include them.

The best solutions are the ones that the average player or Tel Var user would not be affected by and would improve QoL:

The gold received from selling the poisons to the merchant is reduced curbing the gold-making/selling part by reducing the quantity to equal that of other potions, from 16 per to 4 per.

Have Alchemy Surveys include the same (other than the DLC ingredients) as the Apothecary Satchels.

Make Apothecary Satchels available in PVP zones for purchase with AP.

This way, whether you are a PVP'er, PVE crafter, or IC player, there is balance, though would not solve the gold-selling part.

Another option, and not unrealistic, as quite a few posts in here scoff that the hourly rate is achievable, is to cap the quantity of Tel Var able to be farmed per hour/ per day, per account or, per character. I say it is not unrealistic nor unreasonable as it is evidenced only a select few are aware of this and what would be a reasonable amount of Tel Var one account would really need in a day?