When will Cyrodiil be fixed?

Erissime

I know, old story, endless complants, people rage quitting and what not. But seriously, it is tiresome to be unable to play when a larger group of players is around due to crashes and incapabilities of login. There are even those who blame other people for it and claiming they are doing it on purpose by gathering in large groups - but seriously, isn't this kind of the purpose of Cyrodiil? Armies fighting armies? Never mind that "armies" these days are considerably diminished due to the population cap decrease, but even so it is impossible to enjoy what might have been a good fight without a crash - the variety which doesn't enable you to log in for a while because error after error follows after these crashes. Why on earth is Cyrodiil so abandoned!? And what does it take for it to be given proper attention just like with the rest of the game!? And please don't throw the "minority" excuse into the bargain because I see plenty of people wanting to join or simply playing there constantly. Enough is enough really! You only have two end game type of content , pve trials and pvp. What on earth is going on with the latter? And no, whatever you add (like the IA ) or other such things - the end game perception of things shall not be changed. So mind what you have already will you now? And while I have been educated enough to learn to say "please" and "thank you" when passing a message, these issues have been long overdue and the time for "pleases" and "kindnesses" is over. This is a demand for what is simply a player's right - to play a game with proper functionality!

reiverx

The demise of Cyrodiil has been ongoing for many years.

The decision makers have sat back and made it happen.

I mean, there's not much else to say on it.

Stridig

I'm convinced they want more people to quit Cyrodiil so they can justify removing it from the game all together. There's no other explanation I can come up with.

Desiato

Stridig wrote: »

I'm convinced they want more people to quit Cyrodiil so they can justify removing it from the game all together. There's no other explanation I can come up with.

That doesn't make sense because they continue to have events to promote it and still add minor content like new sets.

Furthermore, they don't need to sabotage Cyrodiil to remove it. They can just do it. Most ESO players would celebrate Cyrodiil being converted to a PVE zone. The Cyrodilic playerbase is tiny, and among those playing it are a lot of PVE players who mainly go there for the 50 transmute crystal end of campaign reward. So it's probably even less popular than it seems.

What does make sense is that the playerbase is too small to justify the financial cost to improve it in terms of software development.

So they likely do what they can to promote it within the small budget allocated to it with hopes it can draw more interest to make a business case for improving it.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending ZOS. They obviously made the decision around 8 years ago to effectively put Cyrodiil on life support as they pivoted ESO to a different audience and business model. I don't support that decision. It's not possible to explain in detail why without having my forum account actioned! But it happened a long time ago and at some point I realized I had to accept reality, let go and move on.

Stridig

Desiato wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

I'm convinced they want more people to quit Cyrodiil so they can justify removing it from the game all together. There's no other explanation I can come up with.

That doesn't make sense because they continue to have events to promote it and still add minor content like new sets.

Furthermore, they don't need to sabotage Cyrodiil to remove it. They can just do it. Most ESO players would celebrate Cyrodiil being converted to a PVE zone. The Cyrodilic playerbase is tiny, and among those playing it are a lot of PVE players who mainly go there for the 50 transmute crystal end of campaign reward. So it's probably even less popular than it seems.

What does make sense is that the playerbase is too small to justify the financial cost to improve it in terms of software development.

So they likely do what they can to promote it within the small budget allocated to it with hopes it can draw more interest to make a business case for improving it.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending ZOS. They obviously made the decision around 8 years ago to effectively put Cyrodiil on life support as they pivoted ESO to a different audience and business model. I don't support that decision. It's not possible to explain in detail why without having my forum account actioned! But it happened a long time ago and at some point I realized I had to accept reality, let go and move on.

The player base is small due to bugs and low population cap. Not because PvP is/was unpopular.

Amottica

I assumed the question in the title was rhetorical until I saw a full statement in the OP.

To answer the question: Never!!!

Besides the reality that every game has bugs, many of them are never fixed, Cyrodiil takes the cake on this. I understand Cyrodiil has significantly better performance early on when it has a much larger pop cap. That is unusual for a game, though part of it was the odd design ESO launched with the trusted client. After a player made it impossible to ignore how easy it was to use game cheat to bypass the client's check on our resources, Zenimax moved much of the checks to the server, which increased the load and our lag.

Zenimax has attempted to improve its performance, but the issues remain.

Then there is the all too well-known "stuck in combat" bug that persists through death and has been present for years.s

So it is not realistic to think it will ever get fixed. Maybe improved, we can hope.

ProudMary

Erissime wrote: »

I know, old story, endless complants, people rage quitting and what not. But seriously, it is tiresome to be unable to play when a larger group of players is around due to crashes and incapabilities of login. There are even those who blame other people for it and claiming they are doing it on purpose by gathering in large groups - but seriously, isn't this kind of the purpose of Cyrodiil? Armies fighting armies? Never mind that "armies" these days are considerably diminished due to the population cap decrease, but even so it is impossible to enjoy what might have been a good fight without a crash - the variety which doesn't enable you to log in for a while because error after error follows after these crashes. Why on earth is Cyrodiil so abandoned!? And what does it take for it to be given proper attention just like with the rest of the game!? And please don't throw the "minority" excuse into the bargain because I see plenty of people wanting to join or simply playing there constantly. Enough is enough really! You only have two end game type of content , pve trials and pvp. What on earth is going on with the latter? And no, whatever you add (like the IA ) or other such things - the end game perception of things shall not be changed. So mind what you have already will you now? And while I have been educated enough to learn to say "please" and "thank you" when passing a message, these issues have been long overdue and the time for "pleases" and "kindnesses" is over. This is a demand for what is simply a player's right - to play a game with proper functionality!

If you can get someone from ZOS to discuss the issue you'll be the first.

For years now the only way to deal with the neglect in Cyrodiil by ZOS is to quit giving ZOS money. Cancel your sub. Don't buy new expansions, and never, ever, spend money in the crown store. This won't fix the problem, but it will make it so you're not financially invested in the game so you wont care as much that ZOS completely neglects what was once their primary end game activity.

Stridig wrote: »

I'm convinced they want more people to quit Cyrodiil so they can justify removing it from the game all together. There's no other explanation I can come up with.

All evidence points to this being the case.

gronoxvx

Simply, no. Zos has made it clear they dont want to invest in PVP since a majority of the community that promoted the game to the PVP'ers moved on years ago. All thats left are the diehards who wont move on because theyve invested so much time into it, those who only play for nostalgia and the small amount of people who are new and still have that "new game" energy.

Ngl, its better to stop hoping they will do something as they never will.

FlopsyPrince

The "in combat flag" can and should be cleared when you die and/or are rezzed, fixing at least that part!

Desiato

Stridig wrote: »

The player base is small due to bugs and low population cap. Not because PvP is/was unpopular.

ESO PVP is unpopular for a variety of reasons, including bugs. The bottom line is that not enough players play it to justify the financial investment. If a stand alone game was played by as few players as Cyrodiil the developer would need to end operations.

With that said, my opinion is that the biggest reason that it's unpopular is that it's attached to an ultra-casual PVE game that most people who main PVP games wouldn't necessarily want to play.

I think if the broader PVP gaming audience that could download and play Cyrodiil as it is today without having to spend time in the PVE side of the game, I think it could be extremely popular. Unfortunately, I seem to have more faith in this product than ZOS does.

LittlePinkDot

ProudMary wrote: »

Erissime wrote: »

I know, old story, endless complants, people rage quitting and what not. But seriously, it is tiresome to be unable to play when a larger group of players is around due to crashes and incapabilities of login. There are even those who blame other people for it and claiming they are doing it on purpose by gathering in large groups - but seriously, isn't this kind of the purpose of Cyrodiil? Armies fighting armies? Never mind that "armies" these days are considerably diminished due to the population cap decrease, but even so it is impossible to enjoy what might have been a good fight without a crash - the variety which doesn't enable you to log in for a while because error after error follows after these crashes. Why on earth is Cyrodiil so abandoned!? And what does it take for it to be given proper attention just like with the rest of the game!? And please don't throw the "minority" excuse into the bargain because I see plenty of people wanting to join or simply playing there constantly. Enough is enough really! You only have two end game type of content , pve trials and pvp. What on earth is going on with the latter? And no, whatever you add (like the IA ) or other such things - the end game perception of things shall not be changed. So mind what you have already will you now? And while I have been educated enough to learn to say "please" and "thank you" when passing a message, these issues have been long overdue and the time for "pleases" and "kindnesses" is over. This is a demand for what is simply a player's right - to play a game with proper functionality!

If you can get someone from ZOS to discuss the issue you'll be the first.

For years now the only way to deal with the neglect in Cyrodiil by ZOS is to quit giving ZOS money. Cancel your sub. Don't buy new expansions, and never, ever, spend money in the crown store. This won't fix the problem, but it will make it so you're not financially invested in the game so you wont care as much that ZOS completely neglects what was once their primary end game activity.

Stridig wrote: »

I'm convinced they want more people to quit Cyrodiil so they can justify removing it from the game all together. There's no other explanation I can come up with.

All evidence points to this being the case.

They can't remove it from the game because people paid for it. That's how lawsuits happen.

This is why back when Diablo 2 had an auction house and Blizzard wanted to change items and sets, they could only change new drops and had to leave everything somebody paid for alone. So you had people running around with discontinued items that nobody else could get via gameplay anymore.

Bammlschwamml

Whenever ESO employees are being asked about pvp in a stream or interview, you can see that this topic "doesn't spark joy". I wonder why that is, and what it means for the future of Cyrodiil. I wish they would just tell us what's happening.

Tsuriel

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

They can't remove it from the game because people paid for it. That's how lawsuits happen.

This is why back when Diablo 2 had an auction house and Blizzard wanted to change items and sets, they could only change new drops and had to leave everything somebody paid for alone. So you had people running around with discontinued items that nobody else could get via gameplay anymore.

Isn't ZOS free to remove and tweak content however the want though since we paid for a limited license, a right to use their service as stated in their ToS?

Bammlschwamml

Tsuriel wrote: »

Isn't ZOS free to remove and tweak content however the want though since we paid for a limited license, a right to use their service as stated in their ToS?

Writing something down and calling it "terms of something" doesn't necessarily mean it's above the law. Plenty of contracts are invalid after someone takes a closer look. Video games are kind of new and it will take a while to figure everything out.

Lootboxes are a good example of how quickly things can change, and how long it takes for different countries to update their laws.

Bammlschwamml

I still hope they want to fix Cyrodiil and give everyone the opportunity to experience massive battles in ESO. Cyrodiil might be the best thing i have ever seen in my 30 years of playing video games. When it works.

So i don't understand why anyone would want to get rid of it. Even if some choices made by the devs really seem like sabotage.

Desiato

Tsuriel wrote: »

Isn't ZOS free to remove and tweak content however the want though since we paid for a limited license, a right to use their service as stated in their ToS?

Of course they are. Companies discontinue unprofitable products and aspects of products all the time.

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I still hope they want to fix Cyrodiil and give everyone the opportunity to experience massive battles in ESO. Cyrodiil might be the best thing i have ever seen in my 30 years of playing video games. When it works.

Of course there's individuals at ZOS who want this. ZOS was formed from former employees of Mythic Entertainment who were famous for their open world PVP games, Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. Cyrodiil is basically a descendant of those two games.

IMO, the only reason AvA still exists in ESO is because surely their hearts have a soft spot for it.

However, ESO was an ambitious high budget title financed by people who invested in Zenimax and expected a return. It started development in 2007, before Skyrim, when WoW was the revenue king of the gaming world with its subscriber model. ESO was originally designed to be the ultimate sub based MMO and PVP was intended to be a key component.

However, in between 2007 and the 2014 launch, a lot changed. Namely, Skyrim happened, and it brought TES into the mainstream with a new audience with different expectations as one of the top selling games of all time. Furthermore, the subscription model in the MMO industry had run its course and was no longer viable.

So after a bad launch, ZOS pivoted away from the sub MMO market and changed ESO into the ultra-casual online RPG for Skyrim fans we play today. During that process, they ultimately decided to put Cyrodiil on life support.

If it was wasy to fix, they would have done it. Its fundamental problems are software related. They require software engineering solutions. Hardware is cheap. Software development teams are not. It would probably cost more to fund the hardware for the software developers they would need to fix Cyrodiil than they currently spend on operating Cyrodiil.

Since that time, Microsoft paid a fortune for Zenimax, mainly for the TES IP. They also expect a return on that.

So in order to fix Cyrodiil, a business case must be made for the funding necessary to do it. It has nothing to do with what individuals want at this point.

Amottica

Tsuriel wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

They can't remove it from the game because people paid for it. That's how lawsuits happen.

This is why back when Diablo 2 had an auction house and Blizzard wanted to change items and sets, they could only change new drops and had to leave everything somebody paid for alone. So you had people running around with discontinued items that nobody else could get via gameplay anymore.

Isn't ZOS free to remove and tweak content however the want though since we paid for a limited license, a right to use their service as stated in their ToS?

You are correct.

First, "ZeniMax reserves the right to limit, in its sole discretion, the provision and quantity of any feature, product, or Service to any person or geographic area."

Secondly, "ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be accessible or available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and/or update Content without notice to You."

Lastly, "ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion."

What brings this all together is "By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account."

We do not even own anything we have paid for. If Zenimax wants to change something, they have full rights to do so, and I am pretty sure Blizzard does as well. The big Z could revamp Cyrodiil into a pure PvE zone if they so chose (which I doubt they do). I highly doubt someone will successfully sue if developers make major changes to content in a game. Heck, Zenimax reworks all the original zones to eliminate gated levels. Some think that was extreme yet no one filed a suit. .

LittlePinkDot

Desiato wrote: »

Tsuriel wrote: »

Isn't ZOS free to remove and tweak content however the want though since we paid for a limited license, a right to use their service as stated in their ToS?

Of course they are. Companies discontinue unprofitable products and aspects of products all the time.

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I still hope they want to fix Cyrodiil and give everyone the opportunity to experience massive battles in ESO. Cyrodiil might be the best thing i have ever seen in my 30 years of playing video games. When it works.

Of course there's individuals at ZOS who want this. ZOS was formed from former employees of Mythic Entertainment who were famous for their open world PVP games, Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. Cyrodiil is basically a descendant of those two games.

IMO, the only reason AvA still exists in ESO is because surely their hearts have a soft spot for it.

However, ESO was an ambitious high budget title financed by people who invested in Zenimax and expected a return. It started development in 2007, before Skyrim, when WoW was the revenue king of the gaming world with its subscriber model. ESO was originally designed to be the ultimate sub based MMO and PVP was intended to be a key component.

However, in between 2007 and the 2014 launch, a lot changed. Namely, Skyrim happened, and it brought TES into the mainstream with a new audience with different expectations as one of the top selling games of all time. Furthermore, the subscription model in the MMO industry had run its course and was no longer viable.

So after a bad launch, ZOS pivoted away from the sub MMO market and changed ESO into the ultra-casual online RPG for Skyrim fans we play today. During that process, they ultimately decided to put Cyrodiil on life support.

If it was wasy to fix, they would have done it. Its fundamental problems are software related. They require software engineering solutions. Hardware is cheap. Software development teams are not. It would probably cost more to fund the hardware for the software developers they would need to fix Cyrodiil than they currently spend on operating Cyrodiil.

Since that time, Microsoft paid a fortune for Zenimax, mainly for the TES IP. They also expect a return on that.

So in order to fix Cyrodiil, a business case must be made for the funding necessary to do it. It has nothing to do with what individuals want at this point.

If you build it...they will come.

TechMaybeHic

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Erissime wrote: »

I know, old story, endless complants, people rage quitting and what not. But seriously, it is tiresome to be unable to play when a larger group of players is around due to crashes and incapabilities of login. There are even those who blame other people for it and claiming they are doing it on purpose by gathering in large groups - but seriously, isn't this kind of the purpose of Cyrodiil? Armies fighting armies? Never mind that "armies" these days are considerably diminished due to the population cap decrease, but even so it is impossible to enjoy what might have been a good fight without a crash - the variety which doesn't enable you to log in for a while because error after error follows after these crashes. Why on earth is Cyrodiil so abandoned!? And what does it take for it to be given proper attention just like with the rest of the game!? And please don't throw the "minority" excuse into the bargain because I see plenty of people wanting to join or simply playing there constantly. Enough is enough really! You only have two end game type of content , pve trials and pvp. What on earth is going on with the latter? And no, whatever you add (like the IA ) or other such things - the end game perception of things shall not be changed. So mind what you have already will you now? And while I have been educated enough to learn to say "please" and "thank you" when passing a message, these issues have been long overdue and the time for "pleases" and "kindnesses" is over. This is a demand for what is simply a player's right - to play a game with proper functionality!

If you can get someone from ZOS to discuss the issue you'll be the first.

For years now the only way to deal with the neglect in Cyrodiil by ZOS is to quit giving ZOS money. Cancel your sub. Don't buy new expansions, and never, ever, spend money in the crown store. This won't fix the problem, but it will make it so you're not financially invested in the game so you wont care as much that ZOS completely neglects what was once their primary end game activity.

Stridig wrote: »

I'm convinced they want more people to quit Cyrodiil so they can justify removing it from the game all together. There's no other explanation I can come up with.

All evidence points to this being the case.

They can't remove it from the game because people paid for it. That's how lawsuits happen.

This is why back when Diablo 2 had an auction house and Blizzard wanted to change items and sets, they could only change new drops and had to leave everything somebody paid for alone. So you had people running around with discontinued items that nobody else could get via gameplay anymore.

What if I told you, SWTOR had a PvP planet and they removed it, and no lawsuits ever developed worth noticing