A New Campaign Without Limits

El_Borracho

After the hundreds of "nerf" threads that have been here for as long as this game has been around, I've had an idea. What if there was a campaign where there were no caps on anything? No Battle Spirit. No limits on PVE sets that only work on monsters, because players would be considered monsters. No range limitations. No ramping costs. No scrolls. No Volendrung. No PVE crossover with quests or skyshards or whatever so its pure PVP. Condense the Cyrodiil map to one alliance's zone and split that into 3 smaller zones while also adding in more respawn points because there is going to be a lot of death. 8, 12, or 24 hours long, don't care which, but its got to be short so its not "last time zone awake wins." Just make it an absolute free for all.

I considered eliminating organized groups, to avoid the ball healing/zerg scenario, but that would violate the spirit of the campaign. Maybe have that as an alternative campaign to this. I want to see what would happen when nothing is nerfed and everything is possible. Maybe it would be awful. But what if it wasn't?

CameraBeardThePirate

Yah let's remove Battle Spirit so that Nightblades can 1 tap anyone with 60k Bow Procs. Sounds good dude.

El_Borracho

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Yah let's remove Battle Spirit so that Nightblades can 1 tap anyone with 60k Bow Procs. Sounds good dude.

Gee, if only you could have stronger shields and healing... maybe by removing battle spirit.

Instead, lets get back to complaining about nightblades being too overpowered right now. Or maybe that too many players are too tanky. Or that there are too many 40K warden cheese builds. Or maybe another thread about Way of Fire. That's way better.

Necrotech_Master

i think if you removed battle spirit, you would have far far more complaints about being 1 shot from the "casual" crowd

it would end up pushing people even harder towards a tank meta because if you were anything less, you would get vaporized by gankers

El_Borracho

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think if you removed battle spirit, you would have far far more complaints about being 1 shot from the "casual" crowd

it would end up pushing people even harder towards a tank meta because if you were anything less, you would get vaporized by gankers

Maybe. But PVP is stale in its current state. It needs something. I'd rather see more power put into Cyrodiil than the constant removal of offensive options.

I just want to see what would happen. Maybe make it an event to try it out. If anything it might draw some interest back into PVP, because Midyear Mayhem isn't cutting it.

Necrotech_Master

i think it would make more sense to probably expand on the no proc one and just make it disable all set bonuses and cp

the current no proc thing doesnt work because theres no indication of what does and doesnt work, it would be better if it was all or nothing

xylena_lazarow

El_Borracho wrote: »

What if there was a campaign where there were no caps on anything?

We've sorta had this, Patch 1.6 when CP system released (it was absurdly more powerful back then), there was also no Battle Spirit, end result was everyone constantly being one shot and two shot. Literally, not even combo'd.

CameraBeardThePirate

El_Borracho wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Yah let's remove Battle Spirit so that Nightblades can 1 tap anyone with 60k Bow Procs. Sounds good dude.

Gee, if only you could have stronger shields and healing... maybe by removing battle spirit.

Instead, lets get back to complaining about nightblades being too overpowered right now. Or maybe that too many players are too tanky. Or that there are too many 40K warden cheese builds. Or maybe another thread about Way of Fire. That's way better.

Yes, let me heal and shield through 60k damage. Never mind that even Impervious Runeward without Battle Spirit barely reaches 30k.

It doesn't matter that Healing and shielding would be higher. You literally would not be able to heal through a nighblade's damage.

Removing Battle Spirit in PvP is a terrible idea.

Gray_howling_parrot

Everybody and their cousin would play either a tank or a NB lol. It’d be an interesting thing to watch for sure, don’t know if I’d want to participate in it myself

Jsmalls

Hey I'm here for it.

Would it be insanely unbalanced? Definitely.
Would it be fun? Idk maybe.

The work involved in reducing the size of the map would be too much of a resource allocation but....

A short campaign with the coding: Battle spirit: Off

I mean I can't imagine that would take much effort on their end.

Just name the server Realm of Madness.

And if you don't want to try it then well don't.

I can tell you Damage Shields would be a Non-issue because blocking and dodging are the only things that will keep you semi alive haha.

xylena_lazarow

Maybe they should try some crazy rulesets as weekend BGs events.

El_Borracho

All good replies, I'm just tired of the current state of PVP. Its either play as a tank or play as a NB while encouraging ball groups. To the point I would probably prefer a gonzo overpowered zone where there was a higher chance of being one-shotted but given the opportunity to rez over slogging it out in 1vX or waiting for guild PVP day to run in an organized group.

I know its a completely different game, but GTA gave players the power to kill everyone and be killed. The only difference in how many times you were killed was skill level. Yes, there was a fair amount of luck and snipers (their version of gankers) were prevalent. But they could be killed just as anyone else could. With the rez being very close to your previous corpse so you didn't have the eternal trek back to the objective. There was no such thing as a tank build whose only purpose was to annoy.

If ESO could bring in a little more power, like it was about 5-6 years ago, it would be a lot more fun.

CameraBeardThePirate

El_Borracho wrote: »

All good replies, I'm just tired of the current state of PVP. Its either play as a tank or play as a NB while encouraging ball groups.

But removing Battle Spirit would only make that problem worse. People would either play the class that can do 100k damage in 2 globals (incap + Spec bow), or play a tank to hopefully not get globaled by the nightblades.

Next patch will likely be a lower TTK meta (in most scenarios - the organized groups will definitely become harder to kill thanks to Contingency).

El_Borracho

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

All good replies, I'm just tired of the current state of PVP. Its either play as a tank or play as a NB while encouraging ball groups.

But removing Battle Spirit would only make that problem worse. People would either play the class that can do 100k damage in 2 globals (incap + Spec bow), or play a tank to hopefully not get globaled by the nightblades.

Next patch will likely be a lower TTK meta (in most scenarios - the organized groups will definitely become harder to kill thanks to Contingency).

You're most likely correct, but its got to the point that I would welcome more kills and deaths (with a closer respawn) than the current version. It again could be awful, but is the current PVP formula even fun? Its definitely not as fun as 2 years ago. Upside to making it crazy OP would be classes like Templar become relevant again, and maybe even Necro. Heck, the Arcanist beam might be a death ray.

Let's hope the changes are good. It needs to revert to more offense, less defense.

CameraBeardThePirate

El_Borracho wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

All good replies, I'm just tired of the current state of PVP. Its either play as a tank or play as a NB while encouraging ball groups.

But removing Battle Spirit would only make that problem worse. People would either play the class that can do 100k damage in 2 globals (incap + Spec bow), or play a tank to hopefully not get globaled by the nightblades.

Next patch will likely be a lower TTK meta (in most scenarios - the organized groups will definitely become harder to kill thanks to Contingency).

You're most likely correct, but its got to the point that I would welcome more kills and deaths (with a closer respawn) than the current version. It again could be awful, but is the current PVP formula even fun? Its definitely not as fun as 2 years ago. Upside to making it crazy OP would be classes like Templar become relevant again, and maybe even Necro. Heck, the Arcanist beam might be a death ray.

Let's hope the changes are good. It needs to revert to more offense, less defense.

I really don't think you quite understand what doubling everyone's damage would do.

Literally everyone would play nightblade or a block tank. There wouldn't be another remotely viable build. Nightblade would be able to deal 100k damage in 2 button pushes. It wouldn't be remotely fun.

xylena_lazarow

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its definitely not as fun as 2 years ago

Fun is of course subjective, for me, 2 years ago was the WORST update in ESO history. U35 destroyed entire classes, playstyles, mechanics, even animations. Wasn't this also the Mara's meta, the worst tank meta in history? I feel like the fun and balance has actually recovered since then, but some things are still irreparably broken from U35 nerfs. I'm glad they've been trying to inject more damage into the meta, but doing it via RANGED attacks is not the way.

El_Borracho

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its definitely not as fun as 2 years ago

Fun is of course subjective, for me, 2 years ago was the WORST update in ESO history. U35 destroyed entire classes, playstyles, mechanics, even animations. Wasn't this also the Mara's meta, the worst tank meta in history? I feel like the fun and balance has actually recovered since then, but some things are still irreparably broken from U35 nerfs. I'm glad they've been trying to inject more damage into the meta, but doing it via RANGED attacks is not the way.

I was thinking prior to all the major changes to everything. Ever since that, PVP has been a shell of what it was.

I know it will never be what it was 7+ years ago, with actual class and build diversity. But the new "meta," if you will, is players complaining about everything that shows up in the combat recap, so they go to a tank build because somehow "winning" is not killing but surviving longer than you would on an offensive build.

edward_frigidhands

El_Borracho wrote: »

After the hundreds of "nerf" threads that have been here for as long as this game has been around, I've had an idea. What if there was a campaign where there were no caps on anything? No Battle Spirit. No limits on PVE sets that only work on monsters, because players would be considered monsters. No range limitations. No ramping costs. No scrolls. No Volendrung. No PVE crossover with quests or skyshards or whatever so its pure PVP. Condense the Cyrodiil map to one alliance's zone and split that into 3 smaller zones while also adding in more respawn points because there is going to be a lot of death. 8, 12, or 24 hours long, don't care which, but its got to be short so its not "last time zone awake wins." Just make it an absolute free for all.

I considered eliminating organized groups, to avoid the ball healing/zerg scenario, but that would violate the spirit of the campaign. Maybe have that as an alternative campaign to this. I want to see what would happen when nothing is nerfed and everything is possible. Maybe it would be awful. But what if it wasn't?

This would be the busiest and most queued campaign.