This needs to end. Let's talk about that "invisible" problem we all know.

Nithkaz

So you need to buy Gold Road to access the Scribing system, but if someone is a new player, they will only be able to unlock the first skill from the tutorial, because if you want to have access to the entire Scribing system (compleating the four quests and unlocking the account upgrades), which is the main attraction of the chapter, you need to have:
Gold Road
Summerset
Murkmire
Greymoor
Blackwood
Elsweyr
Orsinium
Necrom
Clockwork City
And Deadlands.
Because those quests, after compleating the tasks of the luminois beast, send you to places in these locations through portals, and as far as I've seen, these are not unique neither new locations.
I know this is an invisible problem, because veteran players who have all previous dlcs don't even notice it and neither people who buy eso plus, but this is an abuse, if ZOS advertice scribing saying it's a new system you can unlock buying the new chapter, players should be able to have access to it buying THAT specific chapter, this should not be allow and it is not the first time they do it, problem is now they're doing it with the main attraction of the chapter. They should tell players in a clear way, that they will not be able to unlock the entire system if they don't have previous dlcs, otherway they're misleading people into thinking they could get something and then they waste money (and chapters are not cheap) just to discover they can't unlock what they told them.
They're bassically doing false advertising but taking the precautions so that it cannot be legally consider that way, because they're saying you can unlock the system and making people thinking that means the entire system when it is not, but precisely because they're not saying that, it would not count as false advertising, because you can tecnically unlock scribing, which is a five minute quest and one skill you cannot even customize.
Seriously, this needs to end.

RomanRex

sharquez

Because it's an invisible problem for the veterans and + subscribers, there are issues with this game that I was not aware of until one of my friends couldn't buy a style page for a monster helm they already own as a set piece from completing the content from the Infinite Archive, because he didn't have a sub. This game's barrier to entry is a mile-high wall; we veterans are on stilts and can't even see it.

valenwood_vegan

My guess would be because people on the PTS are likely to be mostly long-term and/or heavily invested players who sub or own all of that content.

But also if it feels important... maybe talk about it then... instead of asking why other players aren't talking about it? Really not saying this to be snarky, but like a different post title and a focus on the issue itself, might draw more attention it.

MashmalloMan

RomanRex wrote: »

As a new player, Deluxe Edition isn't the cheapest option for all previous chapters. There is a regular version available as well for the price of a triple A game. It's pretty good value imo, I buy the upgrade almost every year for about 66% the cost of what a new player pays for the same thing + all the previous years I paid that over and over again. With 7 chapters, that's about 375$ + tax vs 80$ + tax.

Not complaining, it's a necessity to catch people up to speed, and I willingly pay full price for the upgrades when I believe in the direction of the game.

My only complaint would be the basic 25$ option, sometimes on sale for like 8-15$. Clearly meant to get people to try the game and hopefully stick with it. This option only includes the current chapter and Morrowind, but the option to upgrade beyond that only includes the newest chapter. So if you were a new player, then you would need to spend an additional 80$ on top of that to get all previous chapters. Total would be 105$+ tax.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 80$ adjusts just because you have the 25$ base. Not many people would blow 80$ on something they've never tried, so they end up paying more for giving the game a chance. Kind of feels like a trap to go for that option.

Of course, ESO + gives access to all previous chapters, which I think is the hope for someone buying the basic option. Reoccurring revenue and monthly crowns to entice you to engage with the cash shop.

There is good value there, but it could be designed a little better. As for the chapter and pay gates, this will happen with every single MMO, it's impossible to avoid. At least there are some decent and affordable ways around it. Some MMO's and live service games don't bundle previous content well like ESO does, buying all the bundles on day 1 can be a 300-500$ investment.

Nithkaz

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

My guess would be because people on the PTS are likely to be mostly long-term and/or heavily invested players who sub or own all of that content.

But also if it feels important... maybe talk about it then... instead of asking why other players aren't talking about it? Really not saying this to be snarky, but like a different post title and a focus on the issue itself, might draw more attention it.

I've took your advise, I've changed the title and written a bit more, I hope this makes it easier to see what's the problem. I don't have hopes people will care though..

valenwood_vegan

[EDIT: Being unable to test the issue raised by OP for myself, I just responded to the issue raised.. but it sounds like DLC access is not actually required to complete the scribing questline. While I stand my by comments below *generally*, they would not seem to be applicable to scribing.].

Yeah, I mean my thoughts are basically that it's an unfortunate and inevitable part of their business model.

They did the same thing with antiquities (requiring Greymoor to unlock it, but scattering many of the leads across other chapters and DLC).

I have concerns about the retention of new players (from my experience and that of my guilds, it's very very poor these days). I think hitting the "DLC wall" so-to-speak is certainly one aspect of that problem.

I think it's unlikely to change and the best option is to try and make sure new players know a) about the Gold Road Collection version of the game, which is actually a pretty good deal with all the old chapters included... and b) that DLC and old chapters (which eventually "become" DLC) can be accessed with eso plus or purchased with crowns (and thus, with in-game gold if one can find a person willing to do a crowns for gold exchange).

I know ZoS is a business and they need to make money, but I think they need to look at the huge amount of DLC and associated systems that the game has accumulated... and try to ensure that new players don't get overwhelmed and turned off by it all... and have a clear understanding of what they're buying and what else they might need to buy to fully experience the game.

Skoomah

ESO is a tremendous value for the amount of content you get for the price point. 10 years of content divided by the price comes to pennies per quest.

wolfie1.0.

It is a problem, especially since the risk is that players will think they have to spend crowns to get these chapters. I do think thst zos should disclose both options in and out of game so it's clear.

Schiffy

There's another solution I'm surprised no one's mentioned here.

Make the individual locations the scribing quest sends you to available during that quest. But if you attempt to exit to the zone proper and don't own that zone, you end up somewhere else, e.g. back in the Scholarium.

Lord knows this functionality already exists. You can own a house and not own the zone it's in. Doesn't mean you can't walk out the front door of the house. You just don't end up in the zone you can't access.

darvaria

Everyone should have a sub. There is NO reason not to. Where else can you get this much entertainment for $15/month? and the craft bag.

If a new player is going to stick around, they need a sub.

VinnyGambini

darvaria wrote: »

Everyone should have a sub. There is NO reason not to. Where else can you get this much entertainment for $15/month? and the craft bag.

If a new player is going to stick around, they need a sub.

Just for your information, the biggest mmo game in the world is fully free to play. For real money you buy only skins etc. This buisness model works just fine, and there is no pay to win. So i dont understand why ESO cant go the same way, just craft bag and aescethics, housing items etc.

Tommy_The_Gun

Yeah, it is definitely a problem, but I still think ESO is in way better spot when it comes to monetisation than WoW for example. Important thing however is that just because one game is terrible overpriced (and arguably P2W) the other game should be too. And I already know what some people are going to say. "Just wait for ESO+ free trial & then do all the quests". It is a way to technically do it "for free" but that is not the point. The point is that many players bought new content & now they might be "very disappointed" (putting it lightly) as they feel cheated as it turns out that in order to fully enjoy new content you have to own almost every single previous DLC/Chapter. And it is not the 1st time something like this happened. Scrying & Mythic leads for example also have this problem.

Kappachi

Is this actually a problem? I own all the DLC in the game so never need to buy ESO+, are people actually unable to enter these instances if they own Gold Road but not previous DLCs?

SeaGtGruff

sharquez wrote: »

Because it's an invisible problem for the veterans and + subscribers, there are issues with this game that I was not aware of until one of my friends couldn't buy a style page for a monster helm they already own as a set piece from completing the content from the Infinite Archive, because he didn't have a sub. This game's barrier to entry is a mile-high wall; we veterans are on stilts and can't even see it.

I agree that there's a lot of expansion content that new players will need to acquire access to in order to fully enjoy the game-- not just each new chapter when it comes out, but each previous chapter and each DLC.

I also agree that this doesn't seem like a problem to players who've been playing the game for a long time, since they likely already have access to everything.

There are ways to acquire the expansions more easily, such as DLC bundles and the Deluxe Collection options, but there are so many expansions that it can be very bewildering for a new player to know what's needed and which purchase options are going to be the best ones for them (since all players will not necessarily be interested in the same types of content). Not to mention the cost.

But I don't really know how this can be improved in a way that allows the game to stay afloat fiscally speaking, because giving everything away for free isn't feasible, and there's already a "best possible solution" available-- namely, buying the Deluxe Collection along with a subscription to ESO Plus.

The bad thing about this "best possible solution" is that new players won't necessarily understand what their best choice is, or might not be ready to make that kind of financial commitment to the game. After I started playing ESO in mid-2017, it took me a few years before I decided I was playing and enjoying the game enough hours every day to justify a subscription to it. I've never regretted my decision to subscribe, but it took me a long time to finally bite the bullet. If I were a new player just getting into the game today, I'd probably feel overwhelmed and discouraged by everything else I needed to buy or otherwise acquire access to in addition to the base game.

Kappachi

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Because it's an invisible problem for the veterans and + subscribers, there are issues with this game that I was not aware of until one of my friends couldn't buy a style page for a monster helm they already own as a set piece from completing the content from the Infinite Archive, because he didn't have a sub. This game's barrier to entry is a mile-high wall; we veterans are on stilts and can't even see it.

I agree that there's a lot of expansion content that new players will need to acquire access to in order to fully enjoy the game-- not just each new chapter when it comes out, but each previous chapter and each DLC.

I also agree that this doesn't seem like a problem to players who've been playing the game for a long time, since they likely already have access to everything.

There are ways to acquire the expansions more easily, such as DLC bundles and the Deluxe Collection options, but there are so many expansions that it can be very bewildering for a new player to know what's needed and which purchase options are going to be the best ones for them (since all players will not necessarily be interested in the same types of content). Not to mention the cost.

But I don't really know how this can be improved in a way that allows the game to stay afloat fiscally speaking, because giving everything away for free isn't feasible, and there's already a "best possible solution" available-- namely, buying the Deluxe Collection along with a subscription to ESO Plus.

The bad thing about this "best possible solution" is that new players won't necessarily understand what their best choice is, or might not be ready to make that kind of financial commitment to the game. After I started playing ESO in mid-2017, it took me a few years before I decided I was playing and enjoying the game enough hours every day to justify a subscription to it. I've never regretted my decision to subscribe, but it took me a long time to finally bite the bullet. If I were a new player just getting into the game today, I'd probably feel overwhelmed and discouraged by everything else I needed to buy or otherwise acquire access to in addition to the base game.

Best solution going forward, IF these zones are required, is to include them in the deluxe collection for that specific expansion if they throw you back in old DLC zones through the quests. I think that's a much better solution than only using the DLC/expansion area for questing from now on. I liked how it took you across the world, and outside of prologue quests we haven't had questing like this before... I want more of this, but I also want people who buy the expansion to be able to play properly of course.

Luke_Flamesword

I own all DLC so I'm not sure how it works, but for me it looks like they choose only closed interior areas (special, seperated instances of them?) to make them available for everyone... Am I wrong?

Kappachi

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I own all DLC so I'm not sure how it works, but for me it looks like they choose only closed interior areas (special, seperated instances of them?) to make them available for everyone... Am I wrong?

that's what I'm asking, is there any documented case of someone who perhaps only has base game+gold road, or gold road deluxe (since there's a lot of dlcs like Blackwood) who couldn't access the zones?

Bluestin

Kappachi wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I own all DLC so I'm not sure how it works, but for me it looks like they choose only closed interior areas (special, seperated instances of them?) to make them available for everyone... Am I wrong?

that's what I'm asking, is there any documented case of someone who perhaps only has base game+gold road, or gold road deluxe (since there's a lot of dlcs like Blackwood) who couldn't access the zones?

It seems to just send you to areas that it grants you access to for that segment of the quest, I got sent to what I think was a Delve in the Clockwork City; but I don't have the Clockwork City DLC, everything worked fine and proceeded as normal; I just couldn't go outside to the actual Clockwork City Zone (Which the quest didn't require me to do)

Pelanora

If a company sold a product without saying a customer needed to own other products as well to make it work, in my country, that company would be in the courts and losing, under our fair trading legislation.

Elsonso

So, clarity is required here... This DLC delve temporary access thing sounds suspicious to me.

To get the dual rider mount, is it necessary to own Clockwork City, Deadlands, and Murkmire, or have ESO Plus?

Bluestin

Elsonso wrote: »

So, clarity is required here... This DLC delve temporary access thing sounds suspicious to me.

To get the dual rider mount, is it necessary to own Clockwork City, Deadlands, and Murkmire, or have ESO Plus?

No because I have the dual rider mount, and I do not own the Clockwork City DLC.

Edit: I also do not have ESO Plus.

Kappachi

Bluestin wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

I own all DLC so I'm not sure how it works, but for me it looks like they choose only closed interior areas (special, seperated instances of them?) to make them available for everyone... Am I wrong?

that's what I'm asking, is there any documented case of someone who perhaps only has base game+gold road, or gold road deluxe (since there's a lot of dlcs like Blackwood) who couldn't access the zones?

It seems to just send you to areas that it grants you access to for that segment of the quest, I got sent to what I think was a Delve in the Clockwork City; but I don't have the Clockwork City DLC, everything worked fine and proceeded as normal; I just couldn't go outside to the actual Clockwork City Zone (Which the quest didn't require me to do)

Thanks for clarification, so there's absolutely no problem with how this was implemented at all. Sounds like it's done in a way that nobody should be upset about.

NoticeMeArkay

Elsonso wrote: »

So, clarity is required here... This DLC delve temporary access thing sounds suspicious to me.

To get the dual rider mount, is it necessary to own Clockwork City, Deadlands, and Murkmire, or have ESO Plus?

The game teleports you directly into the instances you need to enter in order to finish the quest stages.
Such as laurel's lament in summerset or a delve in murkmire.

It teleports you directly into the delve.

Something tells me, that's intentional in order to give access to the place of action to players who don't own the DLC without accidentially giving them free access to everything that lays outside.
There's no invisible problem.

MasterSpatula

It's fifteen dollars a month. Fifteen dollars. A Star Wars: Galaxies subscription cost me fifteen dollars twenty-one years ago. I can barely find lunch for fifteen dollars, at least not here in Los Angeles.

Running and maintaining the servers costs money. Bug fixes cost money. Development (even if ESO+ only buys you one DLC a year now instead of three, not something I consider okay, but that's another conversation) costs money.

I know a lot of players object to paying an ongoing subscription for an ongoing service, but they're just wrong. Getting the full experience costs money, as it should.

LittlePinkDot

RomanRex wrote: »

It doesn't say clockwork city

Kappachi

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

It doesn't say clockwork city

because cwc isn't a chapter, obviously? it's DLC. And not necessary to complete the expansion by what was said previously.

Araneae6537

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

So, clarity is required here... This DLC delve temporary access thing sounds suspicious to me.

To get the dual rider mount, is it necessary to own Clockwork City, Deadlands, and Murkmire, or have ESO Plus?

The game teleports you directly into the instances you need to enter in order to finish the quest stages.
Such as laurel's lament in summerset or a delve in murkmire.

It teleports you directly into the delve.

Something tells me, that's intentional in order to give access to the place of action to players who don't own the DLC without accidentially giving them free access to everything that lays outside.
There's no invisible problem.

Exactly this! There’s no “invisible problem” and is a neat way to give players a small peak at zones they don’t have.

GooGa592

darvaria wrote: »

Everyone should have a sub. There is NO reason not to. Where else can you get this much entertainment for $15/month? and the craft bag.

If a new player is going to stick around, they need a sub.

No thanks. Some of us have already sunk way, way too much money into a game that doesn't even support their advertised and promoted PvP.

Elsonso

Araneae6537 wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

So, clarity is required here... This DLC delve temporary access thing sounds suspicious to me.

To get the dual rider mount, is it necessary to own Clockwork City, Deadlands, and Murkmire, or have ESO Plus?

The game teleports you directly into the instances you need to enter in order to finish the quest stages.
Such as laurel's lament in summerset or a delve in murkmire.

It teleports you directly into the delve.

Something tells me, that's intentional in order to give access to the place of action to players who don't own the DLC without accidentially giving them free access to everything that lays outside.
There's no invisible problem.

Exactly this! There’s no “invisible problem” and is a neat way to give players a small peak at zones they don’t have.

Well, I dunno about that peek. The roaming around is by teleport, so if you just follow the quest markers, you could be in Macy’s and it would not matter…

Pelanora

O I wish I had a portal to Macy's and also Harvey Nicols and Samaritane