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Why Necromancer needs some help
danko355
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I've recently added a comment to another post, but I decided to create a new discussion, as I think this topic needs more attention. So, why Necromancer is the worst class?
1. Necromancer is clunky. It has too many abilities with short timers to balance; you need to play necro like a piano to make it work (and now compare this to the beam bzz-bzz, all dead around arcanist).
2. Necromancer skills are just lacking. You need to add so many skills from other trees to make it work; it already doesn't feel like playing a necromancer. I recently decided to compare how many class skills I'm using on my PVP toons, and it's 10/12 for Nightblade (which speaks about how well NB skills are built to synergize with each other and give NB everything they need, like necessary buffs/debuffs, burst heal, heal over time, stuns, almost everything), it's 9/12 for DK, 8-9/12 for Sorc, and 5(!)/12 for Necro.
3. Speaking about Necro skills, it almost lacks everything:
a. Spammable? The Scythe lacks damage; you can't use it in competitive PVE, and almost no one uses it in PVP. The Venom/Ricochet Skull also lacks damage compared to other classes AND is bugged in many occasions, which has been reported on the forums/in tickets multiple times, but guess what? Never responded/confirmed/communicated.
b. Stun? No reliable class stun. Actually, now thinking about it, I've played this game since 2016 with some pauses in between, and I've NEVER seen anyone using Grave Grasp skill both in PVE and PVP; this can tell you how badly it is designed.
c. Corpse mechanic skills. They could be good, but in general too clunky to always reliably use. Good PVP, for example, relies on good knowledge of how to LOS when outnumbered/out of resources, which means most of the time you can LOS from your own buffs/tethers (Arcanists laugh with their crux system that reliably works all the time).
d. Necros have the worst Armor buff out of all classes. Nightblades have major resolve built in as a passive, so they don't even need to slot a certain skill to have 100% armor uptime. Other classes have some other utilities built into the armor buff, like DKs having either an AOE dot or a good shield. What do Necros have? Compared to other classes, Necro's pull mechanic is bad (not for tanks, but in general), and reducing summoning abilities is not that noticeable.
e. Ulties. You have Reanimate that could be useful in some scenarios, but has the highest cost out of ALL ulties in the game. The blastbone version of it is bugged and doesn't work properly all the time, which of course has been reported and never addressed. Colossus was good when it was first released. But they nerfed the vulnerability debuff and introduced other sets that provide this debuff, so now the Colossus is actually mediocre.
f. Blastbones. My most raging topic. The skill was always a bit clunky from the start, but it was the best at providing the most damage for necros. What they decided to do recently? Delete the best morph and replace it with an absolutely disgusting buff (2.5 seconds, you can LOS from your own buff, it lasts for 20 seconds, stopping your corpse generation, etc.). Did they listen to the feedback from players? No. Did they listen to the feedback after it was released (there is a topic with voting and 90%+ players would prefer to use the deleted morph)? No. They don't know what to do, but they are too stubborn to listen to players and revert the changes.
g. Gap closer? Doesn't exist for Necros.
h. Any skills that buffs other group players (like minor crit for sorcs/nbs, minor damage for dks/templars)? No.
i. Passive synergies? Necro has a passive that buffs DOT damage, but doesn't have skills that DEAL DOT damage. This is laughable how bad the design of the class is.
j. Maybe you want to feel like a true Necromancer and use some summoning skills? Well, the Skeletal Arcanist/Archer is one of the worst skills in the game. Can you imagine that it was nerfed like all DOTs were, but it's ACTUALLY NOT A DOT. You can compare it to Flames of Oblivion skills from DK. It's the same direct damage that fires to the nearest enemy, so you can't control it. Was FOS nerfed as a dot? No. Was Skeletal Mage nerfed as a DOT not being a DOT? Yes, obviously. I've already talked about blastbones above; let's skip it. The only OK summoning skill for necros is the Spirit Mender, so we have at least something.
4. Buffs/debuffs. Here is an old thread from '22 with class buff/debuff comparisons: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/618634/class-access-to-named-buffs-debuffs/p1 . Necros have 10 in total, nightblades 25, wardens 21. And we are not talking about small buffs/debuffs here. Necro doesn't have class access to major brutality/sorcery, major savagery/prophecy, major/minor expedition, major/minor evasion. All of this you need to compensate by slotting specific potions/skills, which in the end makes necros an abomination of itself having most of the skills outside of the class toolkit.
5. Bugs. Necro is by far the most buggy class and some bugs are there from their release till now, never addressed, never confirmed, always ignored.
a. Blastbones not reliable all the time, sometimes staying in place until cooldown ends.
b. Skull being buggy and sometimes not firing on a third cast.
c. Pets/summons not counting as pets, not benefiting from passives, etc.
d. Pets/summons not counting towards Battlegrounds stats, meaning necro is almost always in the last place when counting its damage/heals. Blastbones damage is not counted, Spirit Guardian heals are not counted, which discourages people from bringing Necros to BGs.
e. Corpse mechanic being bugged. Currently you can see the corpses that weren't killed by you, but you can't interact/consume them. It's fixed on PTS by actually removing the corpses, so you actually can't see them anymore. Again, thank you ZOS for the great solution; let's fix the problem by hiding it!
6. Necros don't excel at anything. PVP? Worst class by far, can't even compare. PVE? Necro is OK-ish DD (nightblade is worst by far, in comparison), but it's definitely not at the top. Necro is mediocre healer. Necro is a good tank, but in the current meta it's outshined by DK (always was) and by Arcanists.
There are other things, but I've already written so much that I can't remember.
1. Necromancer is clunky. It has too many abilities with short timers to balance; you need to play necro like a piano to make it work (and now compare this to the beam bzz-bzz, all dead around arcanist).
2. Necromancer skills are just lacking. You need to add so many skills from other trees to make it work; it already doesn't feel like playing a necromancer. I recently decided to compare how many class skills I'm using on my PVP toons, and it's 10/12 for Nightblade (which speaks about how well NB skills are built to synergize with each other and give NB everything they need, like necessary buffs/debuffs, burst heal, heal over time, stuns, almost everything), it's 9/12 for DK, 8-9/12 for Sorc, and 5(!)/12 for Necro.
3. Speaking about Necro skills, it almost lacks everything:
a. Spammable? The Scythe lacks damage; you can't use it in competitive PVE, and almost no one uses it in PVP. The Venom/Ricochet Skull also lacks damage compared to other classes AND is bugged in many occasions, which has been reported on the forums/in tickets multiple times, but guess what? Never responded/confirmed/communicated.
b. Stun? No reliable class stun. Actually, now thinking about it, I've played this game since 2016 with some pauses in between, and I've NEVER seen anyone using Grave Grasp skill both in PVE and PVP; this can tell you how badly it is designed.
c. Corpse mechanic skills. They could be good, but in general too clunky to always reliably use. Good PVP, for example, relies on good knowledge of how to LOS when outnumbered/out of resources, which means most of the time you can LOS from your own buffs/tethers (Arcanists laugh with their crux system that reliably works all the time).
d. Necros have the worst Armor buff out of all classes. Nightblades have major resolve built in as a passive, so they don't even need to slot a certain skill to have 100% armor uptime. Other classes have some other utilities built into the armor buff, like DKs having either an AOE dot or a good shield. What do Necros have? Compared to other classes, Necro's pull mechanic is bad (not for tanks, but in general), and reducing summoning abilities is not that noticeable.
e. Ulties. You have Reanimate that could be useful in some scenarios, but has the highest cost out of ALL ulties in the game. The blastbone version of it is bugged and doesn't work properly all the time, which of course has been reported and never addressed. Colossus was good when it was first released. But they nerfed the vulnerability debuff and introduced other sets that provide this debuff, so now the Colossus is actually mediocre.
f. Blastbones. My most raging topic. The skill was always a bit clunky from the start, but it was the best at providing the most damage for necros. What they decided to do recently? Delete the best morph and replace it with an absolutely disgusting buff (2.5 seconds, you can LOS from your own buff, it lasts for 20 seconds, stopping your corpse generation, etc.). Did they listen to the feedback from players? No. Did they listen to the feedback after it was released (there is a topic with voting and 90%+ players would prefer to use the deleted morph)? No. They don't know what to do, but they are too stubborn to listen to players and revert the changes.
g. Gap closer? Doesn't exist for Necros.
h. Any skills that buffs other group players (like minor crit for sorcs/nbs, minor damage for dks/templars)? No.
i. Passive synergies? Necro has a passive that buffs DOT damage, but doesn't have skills that DEAL DOT damage. This is laughable how bad the design of the class is.
j. Maybe you want to feel like a true Necromancer and use some summoning skills? Well, the Skeletal Arcanist/Archer is one of the worst skills in the game. Can you imagine that it was nerfed like all DOTs were, but it's ACTUALLY NOT A DOT. You can compare it to Flames of Oblivion skills from DK. It's the same direct damage that fires to the nearest enemy, so you can't control it. Was FOS nerfed as a dot? No. Was Skeletal Mage nerfed as a DOT not being a DOT? Yes, obviously. I've already talked about blastbones above; let's skip it. The only OK summoning skill for necros is the Spirit Mender, so we have at least something.
4. Buffs/debuffs. Here is an old thread from '22 with class buff/debuff comparisons: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/618634/class-access-to-named-buffs-debuffs/p1 . Necros have 10 in total, nightblades 25, wardens 21. And we are not talking about small buffs/debuffs here. Necro doesn't have class access to major brutality/sorcery, major savagery/prophecy, major/minor expedition, major/minor evasion. All of this you need to compensate by slotting specific potions/skills, which in the end makes necros an abomination of itself having most of the skills outside of the class toolkit.
5. Bugs. Necro is by far the most buggy class and some bugs are there from their release till now, never addressed, never confirmed, always ignored.
a. Blastbones not reliable all the time, sometimes staying in place until cooldown ends.
b. Skull being buggy and sometimes not firing on a third cast.
c. Pets/summons not counting as pets, not benefiting from passives, etc.
d. Pets/summons not counting towards Battlegrounds stats, meaning necro is almost always in the last place when counting its damage/heals. Blastbones damage is not counted, Spirit Guardian heals are not counted, which discourages people from bringing Necros to BGs.
e. Corpse mechanic being bugged. Currently you can see the corpses that weren't killed by you, but you can't interact/consume them. It's fixed on PTS by actually removing the corpses, so you actually can't see them anymore. Again, thank you ZOS for the great solution; let's fix the problem by hiding it!
6. Necros don't excel at anything. PVP? Worst class by far, can't even compare. PVE? Necro is OK-ish DD (nightblade is worst by far, in comparison), but it's definitely not at the top. Necro is mediocre healer. Necro is a good tank, but in the current meta it's outshined by DK (always was) and by Arcanists.
There are other things, but I've already written so much that I can't remember.
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Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭Great insight ! But honestly not worth the effort. So many times I’m drafting a big post but by the time I’m done I’m actually tired, resentful and frustrated at being ignored. So I just delete.
You said it yourself. Never responded/confirmed/communicated. Hopefully someone acknowledges.Crown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.1 -
danko355✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »Great insight ! But honestly not worth the effort. So many times I’m drafting a big post but by the time I’m done I’m actually tired, resentful and frustrated at being ignored. So I just delete.
You said it yourself. Never responded/confirmed/communicated. Hopefully someone acknowledges.
Yes, the worst part is each new patch/pts cycle you’re looking forward that they finally do something, but so far there were only the nails to the coffin. Blastbones - nerfed, vulnerability - nerfed, skeletal mage - nerfed, harmony synergies - nerfed. Necro lost access to unique play styles, like harmony bombing, bashing, I feel like there is no more certain class identity how endgame necro should look like3 -
Perashim✭✭✭Easily the worst class in the game, and it keeps getting worse.
Imo, Necromancer doesn't just need help, they need an entire overhaul of all 3 skill lines."...and storms shall sunder the skies, and war will tear the world apart, and the dead shall rule the lands."4 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭Still relevant today. I will never understand why they nerfed the skeletal minion in the same patch all the DoT abilities got nerfed, even though the ability does not count as DoT, and does not benefit from their own rapid rot passive.
Nightblades have 25 named buffs/debuffs, necromancer has 10 how is that okay for a paid class?
Still the only class in the game without major brutality/sorcery also. Should just put it on the skeletal mage and give it the while slotted on either bar treatment.1 -
yadibroz✭✭✭IncultaWolf wrote: »Still relevant today. I will never understand why they nerfed the skeletal minion in the same patch all the DoT abilities got nerfed, even though the ability does not count as DoT, and does not benefit from their own rapid rot passive.
Nightblades have 25 named buffs/debuffs, necromancer has 10 how is that okay for a paid class?
Still the only class in the game without major brutality/sorcery also. Should just put it on the skeletal mage and give it the while slotted on either bar treatment.
Remember we need buff,debuff balance and unbalanced classes and Necromancer is the unbalanced one and NB is the buff balance classes so they had to choose which to destroy.0 -
Hasenpfote✭✭✭Greater Protection sounds nice, but 4 seconds of greater protection is meaningless, especially if you have to create a corpse first to be able to use this. In general, necromancers skills have a very short duration, the healing skeleton has 8 seconds duration his heal is meaning less, because its singel target and *it is a crime* to use it.
As tank he is pretty weak compared to other classes.
Nightblade tank has very high liferegenration and resource regeneration
Sorc has very strong damage shields aswell resource regeneration
Warden has very high mobility with slow immunity, allowing him to do alternate tactics while tanking
Arcanist has very strong damage shields and can buff groups with shields too while tanking
The biggest issue with necromancer is the corpse mechanic.
Sorc: Summion Twilight Matriach: heals 2 target, 28m range *radiant* 4590 Magicka, 7080 Heal
Necro: Resistent Flesh: Heals 1 target, 28x12m range, 4320 Magicka, 7080 Heal; the other morph heals 2 targers, if you have corpses
Healing Staff: Blessing of Restoration: Heals all targers: 20x10 range; 4860 Magicka, 5309 Heal, gives minor resistence
These 3 skills can be compared with each other and the Necro heal is the weakest here. Other Necro Heals are even locked, if you dont have a corpse at all.
So what is the sollution? Completly rely on healing staff skills? But then you can use another class for better synergy at all. Also Necro has no backbar passives, at least i dont have found any.
So in a competive PvE, he has nothing, that makes him superior in a task, where you would say a necro would be nice here beside of his ability to ressurect players, which is unique, but a templar can ressurect in ~2 seconds too and dont need any skill slottet for this.
His unique playstyle with corpses is more a disadvantage instead of an advantage.2 -
Hasenpfote✭✭✭Necromancer would be good, if you have steady free corpses while you dont have to create corpses, but if you do certain dungeon hardmodes, you dont get "free" corpses, meaning most abilities lose lots of power or you are losing a second for creating a corpse.
The question is, do you take a necromancer as healer/tank/dd or do you use one of the other classes, that does theses jobs better is most cases.
Necromancer is good for roleplay purpose, but not for competive PvE.1 -
Playnice✭✭✭I think the most direct and impactful change to make for necromancer in the immediate future is to eliminate the ground path tracking of blastbones. Blastbones is the most important hard hitting burst skill in the kit and it often fails because the blastbones despawns when it cannot track a fast moving or LOSing target. Just make the blastbones jump directly at the target after a delay. There's really no need have the blastbones follow the footsteps of the enemy, the game simply cannot handle it. This would immediately increase the viability of necro in pvp because their delayed burst skill would be more predictable and reliable, just as Curse is for sorc, Shalk is for warden, and purifying light is for templar.Playing ESO since Feb 2015 / TES fan since 2002
Main alliance: Ebonheart Pact0