NB is useless again

StaticWave · April 29

Been testing on PTS for the past week. Here are a few points I can make about NB:

1) Mass Hysteria is still significantly better as a source of Major Cowardice because it’s AoE. As a stun, it’s unblockable/undodgable, which is also better than the scribbing stuns.

2) Unironically, NB’s class skills are so loaded that they can be better than scribbing abilities. For example, Soul Burst can be modded to deal AoE damage and apply Minor Courage. It has similar damage, cost, range, and provides Minor Courage like Powered Extraction, but is a lot weaker because it doesn’t provide Major Brutality and Minor Cowardice. Some scribbing abilities allow you to mod Major Resolve and save a bar slot, but NB gets that in a passive lol. There are a few more examples but it would be too long to type for me.

3) NB also benefits from the scribbing abilities. They can drop Healthy Offering and run the healing version of Wield Soul, which has the same tooltip as Healthy Offering, but can be modded to restore 1k stam and mag every cast and applies Major Vitality instead of Minor Mending, and doesn’t have a self inflicted DoT when casted. They can also use the Contigency skill, which will add extra AoE delayed burst to their combo and amplify their Spectral Bow damage by a flat 2k. They can also slot Bow Vault and gain Streak-like mobility while still keeping Cloak.

NB is looking very strong next patch and I don’t see the class losing its top tier status anytime soon.

Deimus · April 29

[Snip] Every third person in Cyro is running NB

Prionyx wrote: »

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

That good ol' Graverobber synergy that hits for less than a spammable nowadays? Also the reason they obliterated the Harmony trait. ZOS sure did rob that grave of anything worthwhile.

[Snip]

[Edited for trolling]

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · April 29

The OP is talking about groups - I'll assume 8-12m and in that case NB will still be valuable just not as mandatory which is fine, for example look at templar recently, barely any groups were running them for years now since the hybrid patch (imo its still very nice if played well).

Also NB was the preference for group lead before AOE pulls because of fear (and it has since been buffed further). Streak has some benefits too (often better in smaller groups) but generally is a little poor as an engage tool because of the distance creation from your group in some situations.

Also for those posting about necro you basically always want one in those group sizes because of res ulti.

xylena_lazarow · April 29

Prionyx wrote: »

Have any of your red my post at all? With new update NB will be COMPLETELY useless both in group PvE and group PvP(which are 2 most important aspects of the game), there is no class that is in a similar state and you think that NB being decent in solo PvP makes up for it?

One could easily argue the most "important" group PvP in the sense you're using it is the 60+ faction zerg, not the 12-person organized comp group (ball group). How do you feel NB is doing in the zerg context?

Turtle_Bot · April 30

[Snip]

Every single patch it's the same thing:

"NB is dead", "NB got gutted", "NB is the worst class in the game for ALL content"

And yet despite these doom posts every single patch, for literally years now, the NB population, especially in PvP, continues to grow exponentially and NB is currently sitting atop the list for THE most played class in PvP at over a whopping 30% of players playing the class, or more than double what the population would be if all classes were equally balanced (which would have them sit at only 14.3%).

NB is going to be extremely broken in PvP next patch and not just solo/gankblades either, it's getting the following thanks to scribing:

- Streak (Vault) on one of its most preferred weapons (bow) (without having to give up cloak) that costs stamina (even when it heals), and (currently) has no ramping cost.
- a burst heal that restores resources and gives NB access to the LAST major buff (vitality) that they were somehow still lacking in their class kit
- AoE semi-spammable gank tool that doesnt break stealth, doesn't require charging stacks and hits as hard as MR
- delayed AoE burst that combines with AND ALSO buffs MR by a flat 2k
- a ranged version of concealed that deals up to twice the damage of regular spammables that also has execute scaling that also has major defile or major breach (frees up from running ele sus or NMG to get breach giving even more bar space)
- an AoE pull for tether bomb builds on a spammable ability
- potential access to strong damage shields
- potential access to a cleanse (removing cloaks only weakness being DoT)
- potential access to unique mitigation

Cloak was also not added to scribing, IN ANY CAPACITY.

This alone will keep NB as the best lead for organized groups because it can get into position much easier than other classes can to set up the dump and now it also has streak (without ramping cost) on-top of cloak and shade to get out again afterwards if things somehow go south.
On top of this, NB even got a new AoE tool that deals oblivion damage with execute scaling. Ball groups will simply run all NB now and stealth in and instantly wipe entire groups in under 1 second that cannot be countered. No need to run other classes when you can all just cloak in and 100-0 entire groups from stealth with 1 button press of a flat damage spammable while being 50k+ invis tanks with streak, movement speed and healing on top. It's going to be the bugged tarnished set fiasco all over again, but this time it will not be fixed because its part of the new scribing system.

NB also already had the most efficient bar space and overloaded abilities in the game, so NB inherently has the easiest time fitting the new scribing abilities alongside their already strong class abilities to fill niche roles, whereas other classes are forced to choose between scribing or class abilities depending which is more effective for their basic roles.

As was mentioned, on the PvE side NB was brought along in group content as a healer for its ulti generation capabilities that are still unmatched. That aspect was not taken away from NB and not even copied to the scribing abilities, so no, NB will not be vanishing at all from that healer role in PvE. NB also has the best way to inflict MAJOR cowardice so NB will still use that, but just won't be forced to keep the uptime on that debuff allowing more flexibility in the builds.

[Edited for minor bait/non-constructive]

Prionyx · April 30

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

the NB population, especially in PvP, continues to grow exponentially

NB population continues to grow
Meanwhile NB population:

Prionyx · April 30

caserdar wrote: »

[snip]

Good at doing literally one thing while any other class is good at doing multiple things? That's pretty much a valid point

[edited to remove quote]

Prionyx · April 30

Deimus wrote: »

[Snip]Every third person in Cyro is running NB

Prionyx wrote: »

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

That good ol' Graverobber synergy that hits for less than a spammable nowadays? Also the reason they obliterated the Harmony trait. ZOS sure did rob that grave of anything worthwhile.

[Snip]

You are saying that unique synergy and must have ulti aren't good enough but you don't think about that NB will have even way less

[Edited quote]

Urvoth · April 30

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Except NB remains one of if not the strongest classes in PvP, with the most diverse toolkit to work with and the strongest burst heal and strongest burst damage in the game, and cloak too.

Free pull sets like RoA should have never existed in the first place. Free pull sets are bad game design. Anything that moves another players position on the map should require a skill slot and cost resources.

Prionyx wrote: »

So in this update you are taking away 2 only things that made NB at least somewhat useful. Rushing agony is now a dead set so you don't really need NB in groups anymore and on top of that with the new scribing mechanic everyone will be able to apply Major Cowardice debuff, making PvE NB healers completely useless and hammering the last nail into the NB's PvP group puller build coffin(it is the only possible build that is good for NB in group pvp) . Mind giving something in return..?

Have any of your red my post at all? With new update NB will be COMPLETELY useless both in group PvE and group PvP(which are 2 most important aspects of the game), there is no class that is in a similar state and you think that NB being decent in solo PvP makes up for it?

If NB is so bad just switch to necro then, most useful group class ever made I guess

Necro is needed both in PvE and PvP groups while in next patch NB will not be(Necro still will be)

why exactly necros needed? what is there in the game that every other class cant do better than necromancer?

Perfect EC uptime and best source of major vulnerability

EC necro is gone next patch, and colossus that is bad dd ult because it does little damage or a bad support ult that has 0 utility outside of major vuln that easy to keep with two Item sets... buff nb to the point when class identity would be a single buff and 1(out of six quadrillion item sets) item set

Good luck uptiming vulnerablity with TT and AD in AoE fights lol. And how is it EC necro gone. You don't know what you are talking about

evryone could run ec efficiently next patch so so called good class becomes less good and i wonder why, maybe because its a bad class carried by exactly one item set? and you didnt say how necro is better at pvp then nightblade

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

Yeah necro's basically nonexistent damage kit gives it great damage synergy. [Snip]. NB has been the strongest class in PvP for awhile now and has been buffed nearly every patch for the last few years.

[Edited for bait]

Prionyx · April 30

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

[Snip]

Every single patch it's the same thing:

"NB is dead", "NB got gutted", "NB is the worst class in the game for ALL content"

And yet despite these doom posts every single patch, for literally years now, the NB population, especially in PvP, continues to grow exponentially and NB is currently sitting atop the list for THE most played class in PvP at over a whopping 30% of players playing the class, or more than double what the population would be if all classes were equally balanced (which would have them sit at only 14.3%).

NB is going to be extremely broken in PvP next patch and not just solo/gankblades either, it's getting the following thanks to scribing:
- Streak (Vault) on one of its most preferred weapons (bow) (without having to give up cloak) that costs stamina (even when it heals), and (currently) has no ramping cost.
- a burst heal that restores resources and gives NB access to the LAST major buff (vitality) that they were somehow still lacking in their class kit
- AoE semi-spammable gank tool that doesnt break stealth, doesn't require charging stacks and hits as hard as MR
- delayed AoE burst that combines with AND ALSO buffs MR by a flat 2k
- a ranged version of concealed that deals up to twice the damage of regular spammables that also has execute scaling that also has major defile or major breach (frees up from running ele sus or NMG to get breach giving even more bar space)
- an AoE pull for tether bomb builds on a spammable ability
- potential access to strong damage shields
- potential access to a cleanse (removing cloaks only weakness being DoT)
- potential access to unique mitigation

Cloak was also not added to scribing, IN ANY CAPACITY.

This alone will keep NB as the best lead for organized groups because it can get into position much easier than other classes can to set up the dump and now it also has streak (without ramping cost) on-top of cloak and shade to get out again afterwards if things somehow go south.
On top of this, NB even got a new AoE tool that deals oblivion damage with execute scaling. Ball groups will simply run all NB now and stealth in and instantly wipe entire groups in under 1 second that cannot be countered. No need to run other classes when you can all just cloak in and 100-0 entire groups from stealth with 1 button press of a flat damage spammable while being 50k+ invis tanks with streak, movement speed and healing on top. It's going to be the bugged tarnished set fiasco all over again, but this time it will not be fixed because its part of the new scribing system.

NB also already had the most efficient bar space and overloaded abilities in the game, so NB inherently has the easiest time fitting the new scribing abilities alongside their already strong class abilities to fill niche roles, whereas other classes are forced to choose between scribing or class abilities depending which is more effective for their basic roles.

As was mentioned, on the PvE side NB was brought along in group content as a healer for its ulti generation capabilities that are still unmatched. That aspect was not taken away from NB and not even copied to the scribing abilities, so no, NB will not be vanishing at all from that healer role in PvE. NB also has the best way to inflict MAJOR cowardice so NB will still use that, but just won't be forced to keep the uptime on that debuff allowing more flexibility in the builds.

"NB has the most overloaded skills"

Warden with the best damage skill in the game that applies major AND minor breach and is also AoE, with best burst healing skill in the game that is in the same time BY FAR the best stun for solo PvP, with buff skill that grants major brutality and sorcery, passively purges debuffs and restores your resource, best AoE damage ulti in the game that also grants major protection and gives you extra WPD, with literally the best survivability among ALL classes even including arcanist ETC ETC: Am I joke to you? Warden is extremely broken for years yet you don't complain about wardens, while it's obvious for experienced players that warden is broken and strongest PvP class right now. Is it just easier to say "I can't roll dodge, NB is op"?

[Edited quote]

Prionyx · April 30

Urvoth wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Except NB remains one of if not the strongest classes in PvP, with the most diverse toolkit to work with and the strongest burst heal and strongest burst damage in the game, and cloak too.

Free pull sets like RoA should have never existed in the first place. Free pull sets are bad game design. Anything that moves another players position on the map should require a skill slot and cost resources.

Prionyx wrote: »

So in this update you are taking away 2 only things that made NB at least somewhat useful. Rushing agony is now a dead set so you don't really need NB in groups anymore and on top of that with the new scribing mechanic everyone will be able to apply Major Cowardice debuff, making PvE NB healers completely useless and hammering the last nail into the NB's PvP group puller build coffin(it is the only possible build that is good for NB in group pvp) . Mind giving something in return..?

Have any of your red my post at all? With new update NB will be COMPLETELY useless both in group PvE and group PvP(which are 2 most important aspects of the game), there is no class that is in a similar state and you think that NB being decent in solo PvP makes up for it?

If NB is so bad just switch to necro then, most useful group class ever made I guess

Necro is needed both in PvE and PvP groups while in next patch NB will not be(Necro still will be)

why exactly necros needed? what is there in the game that every other class cant do better than necromancer?

Perfect EC uptime and best source of major vulnerability

EC necro is gone next patch, and colossus that is bad dd ult because it does little damage or a bad support ult that has 0 utility outside of major vuln that easy to keep with two Item sets... buff nb to the point when class identity would be a single buff and 1(out of six quadrillion item sets) item set

Good luck uptiming vulnerablity with TT and AD in AoE fights lol. And how is it EC necro gone. You don't know what you are talking about

evryone could run ec efficiently next patch so so called good class becomes less good and i wonder why, maybe because its a bad class carried by exactly one item set? and you didnt say how necro is better at pvp then nightblade

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

Yeah necro's basically nonexistent damage kit gives it great damage synergy. [Snip]. NB has been the strongest class in PvP for awhile now and has been buffed nearly every patch for the last few years.

Of course damage synergy and absolutely must have ulti is better than nothing which NB will be in next update

[Edited quote]

Urvoth · April 30

Prionyx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Except NB remains one of if not the strongest classes in PvP, with the most diverse toolkit to work with and the strongest burst heal and strongest burst damage in the game, and cloak too.

Free pull sets like RoA should have never existed in the first place. Free pull sets are bad game design. Anything that moves another players position on the map should require a skill slot and cost resources.

Prionyx wrote: »

So in this update you are taking away 2 only things that made NB at least somewhat useful. Rushing agony is now a dead set so you don't really need NB in groups anymore and on top of that with the new scribing mechanic everyone will be able to apply Major Cowardice debuff, making PvE NB healers completely useless and hammering the last nail into the NB's PvP group puller build coffin(it is the only possible build that is good for NB in group pvp) . Mind giving something in return..?

Have any of your red my post at all? With new update NB will be COMPLETELY useless both in group PvE and group PvP(which are 2 most important aspects of the game), there is no class that is in a similar state and you think that NB being decent in solo PvP makes up for it?

If NB is so bad just switch to necro then, most useful group class ever made I guess

Necro is needed both in PvE and PvP groups while in next patch NB will not be(Necro still will be)

why exactly necros needed? what is there in the game that every other class cant do better than necromancer?

Perfect EC uptime and best source of major vulnerability

EC necro is gone next patch, and colossus that is bad dd ult because it does little damage or a bad support ult that has 0 utility outside of major vuln that easy to keep with two Item sets... buff nb to the point when class identity would be a single buff and 1(out of six quadrillion item sets) item set

Good luck uptiming vulnerablity with TT and AD in AoE fights lol. And how is it EC necro gone. You don't know what you are talking about

evryone could run ec efficiently next patch so so called good class becomes less good and i wonder why, maybe because its a bad class carried by exactly one item set? and you didnt say how necro is better at pvp then nightblade

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

Yeah necro's basically nonexistent damage kit gives it great damage synergy. [Snip]. NB has been the strongest class in PvP for awhile now and has been buffed nearly every patch for the last few years.

Of course damage synergy and absolutely must have ulti is better than nothing which NB will be in next update

Please explain what damage synergy necro has because myself and every other necro main has no idea what you're talking about. The class was bad and has been nerfed completely into the ground. Necro's kit has no damage, let alone synergy, and the ult is mediocre at best. Almost every single skill in NB's kit is good, and soul tether is one of if not the best pvp damage ult in the game.

[Edited quote]

MrCray78 · April 30

I love how much ppl have Nightblade Logo in Forum Picture 💕💕💕

Prionyx · April 30

Urvoth wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Except NB remains one of if not the strongest classes in PvP, with the most diverse toolkit to work with and the strongest burst heal and strongest burst damage in the game, and cloak too.

Free pull sets like RoA should have never existed in the first place. Free pull sets are bad game design. Anything that moves another players position on the map should require a skill slot and cost resources.

Prionyx wrote: »

So in this update you are taking away 2 only things that made NB at least somewhat useful. Rushing agony is now a dead set so you don't really need NB in groups anymore and on top of that with the new scribing mechanic everyone will be able to apply Major Cowardice debuff, making PvE NB healers completely useless and hammering the last nail into the NB's PvP group puller build coffin(it is the only possible build that is good for NB in group pvp) . Mind giving something in return..?

Have any of your red my post at all? With new update NB will be COMPLETELY useless both in group PvE and group PvP(which are 2 most important aspects of the game), there is no class that is in a similar state and you think that NB being decent in solo PvP makes up for it?

If NB is so bad just switch to necro then, most useful group class ever made I guess

Necro is needed both in PvE and PvP groups while in next patch NB will not be(Necro still will be)

why exactly necros needed? what is there in the game that every other class cant do better than necromancer?

Perfect EC uptime and best source of major vulnerability

EC necro is gone next patch, and colossus that is bad dd ult because it does little damage or a bad support ult that has 0 utility outside of major vuln that easy to keep with two Item sets... buff nb to the point when class identity would be a single buff and 1(out of six quadrillion item sets) item set

Good luck uptiming vulnerablity with TT and AD in AoE fights lol. And how is it EC necro gone. You don't know what you are talking about

evryone could run ec efficiently next patch so so called good class becomes less good and i wonder why, maybe because its a bad class carried by exactly one item set? and you didnt say how necro is better at pvp then nightblade

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

Yeah necro's basically nonexistent damage kit gives it great damage synergy. [Snip]. NB has been the strongest class in PvP for awhile now and has been buffed nearly every patch for the last few years.

Of course damage synergy and absolutely must have ulti is better than nothing which NB will be in next update

Please explain what damage synergy necro has because myself and every other necro main has no idea what you're talking about. The class was bad and has been nerfed completely into the ground. Necro's kit has no damage, let alone synergy, and the ult is mediocre at best. Almost every single skill in NB's kit is good, and soul tether is one of if not the best pvp damage ult in the game.

What damage synergy necro has? MEDIOCRE ULTI? My friend have you ever logged necro before?

Also tether is very situational ulti that is mostly only used in bomber builds after recent changes what are you taking about? Let alone that NB doesn't even have any outstanding skills like warden's bugs

[Edited quote]

Urvoth · April 30

Prionyx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Except NB remains one of if not the strongest classes in PvP, with the most diverse toolkit to work with and the strongest burst heal and strongest burst damage in the game, and cloak too.

Free pull sets like RoA should have never existed in the first place. Free pull sets are bad game design. Anything that moves another players position on the map should require a skill slot and cost resources.

Prionyx wrote: »

So in this update you are taking away 2 only things that made NB at least somewhat useful. Rushing agony is now a dead set so you don't really need NB in groups anymore and on top of that with the new scribing mechanic everyone will be able to apply Major Cowardice debuff, making PvE NB healers completely useless and hammering the last nail into the NB's PvP group puller build coffin(it is the only possible build that is good for NB in group pvp) . Mind giving something in return..?

Have any of your red my post at all? With new update NB will be COMPLETELY useless both in group PvE and group PvP(which are 2 most important aspects of the game), there is no class that is in a similar state and you think that NB being decent in solo PvP makes up for it?

If NB is so bad just switch to necro then, most useful group class ever made I guess

Necro is needed both in PvE and PvP groups while in next patch NB will not be(Necro still will be)

why exactly necros needed? what is there in the game that every other class cant do better than necromancer?

Perfect EC uptime and best source of major vulnerability

EC necro is gone next patch, and colossus that is bad dd ult because it does little damage or a bad support ult that has 0 utility outside of major vuln that easy to keep with two Item sets... buff nb to the point when class identity would be a single buff and 1(out of six quadrillion item sets) item set

Good luck uptiming vulnerablity with TT and AD in AoE fights lol. And how is it EC necro gone. You don't know what you are talking about

evryone could run ec efficiently next patch so so called good class becomes less good and i wonder why, maybe because its a bad class carried by exactly one item set? and you didnt say how necro is better at pvp then nightblade

No they won't, uptiming EC with single target direct skills isn't effective and is damage loss, besides you still need necro anyway. Necro is better in PvP because it has good damage synergy and must have ulti, NB will not have anything as close as good in next patch

Yeah necro's basically nonexistent damage kit gives it great damage synergy. [Snip] NB has been the strongest class in PvP for awhile now and has been buffed nearly every patch for the last few years.

Of course damage synergy and absolutely must have ulti is better than nothing which NB will be in next update

Please explain what damage synergy necro has because myself and every other necro main has no idea what you're talking about. The class was bad and has been nerfed completely into the ground. Necro's kit has no damage, let alone synergy, and the ult is mediocre at best. Almost every single skill in NB's kit is good, and soul tether is one of if not the best pvp damage ult in the game.

What damage synergy necro has? MEDIOCRE ULTI? My friend have you ever logged necro before?

Also tether is very situational ulti that is mostly only used in bomber builds after recent changes what are you taking about? Let alone that NB doesn't even have any outstanding skills like warden's bugs

Tether is one of the best and hardest hitting group fight ults and Merciless is the hardest hitting skill in the game. Have you played NB before? You have some of the best healing, best damage, best survivability, and best group utility in the game now and the class gets buffed nearly every patch.

Maybe you're referring to the boneyard synergy when I was thinking you meant the class synergized well within groups or the kit was synergetic? Boneyard is mostly useless now after the harmony nerfs and you're better off just running an Arcanist with runebreak. The ult does mediocre damage and is only useful in larger group fights. It's complete trash for solo or small scale and you're much better off running just about anything else.

It's hard to take your opinions seriously when you think a minor SET nerf is going to make NB useless for group play when its kit is still the strongest in the game by a mile.

[Edited quote]

Bucky_13 · April 30

Remathilis wrote: »

Boys, boys. You're both equally useless. Can I suggest a dragon knight or arcanist?

Agreed, other classes are still viable, so Arcanists are in dire needs of buffs. They do have a better chain than the DKs already, so I think they should also get a better cloak than NB's, maybe a permanent pet that's better than anything the Sorcerer or Warden have. And probably just give them all major and minor buffs at all times if they have an Arcanist skill slotted.

Rasande_Robin · April 30

Nightblade have always been in a rough spot.

Probably the hardest class to balance in between PvP and PvE.

Due to them always having an opener in PvP.
While in PvE invisibility is basically useless.

Nightblade are basically the class that sets the META norm for PvP.

Can you one-shot someone before they can react. Either everyone is Nightblade or tanky enough to survive a Nightblade.

I'll give cred to Zenimax on this one even though it's not perfect. But I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when it comes to Nightblade balance.

Iuppiterr · April 30

So my Templar can do two things in pvp: Tanking (while not moving, so no line of sighting or anthing) and beaming when your at 25%. Thats it. And you guys talk like your class is dead.

I played 3 hours pvp and i fought 1 templar and 2 necros. the rest was Sorcs, Nightblades, DKs and here n there a Warden. I can not believe that ppl actually think Nightblade will be the most useless class next patch.
They complain about other classes getting buffs and debuffs that were on top of their overloaded kits already. Like as if nightblade will not use any of these new skills.

My Templar class is dead in pvp since High isle and is coming back in pve dd single target fights for the last months and thats it. Idk the best healer class in the game + the best PvP class can complain against that tbh

KS_Amt38 · April 30

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

Nightblade have always been in a rough spot.

Probably the hardest class to balance in between PvP and PvE.

Due to them always having an opener in PvP.
While in PvE invisibility is basically useless.

Nightblade are basically the class that sets the META norm for PvP.

Can you one-shot someone before they can react. Either everyone is Nightblade or tanky enough to survive a Nightblade.

I'll give cred to Zenimax on this one even though it's not perfect. But I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when it comes to Nightblade balance.

Balancing isn't that hard, but giving nightblade unique buffs for more and more Single-Target Damage but ignore all of the needed Cleave damage isn't any way to balance the class.

mmtaniac · April 30

Still op in pvp. Not that useless after all.

Turtle_Bot · April 30

Prionyx wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

the NB population, especially in PvP, continues to grow exponentially

NB population continues to grow
Meanwhile NB population:

Way to completely miss what I said. [snip]

I'll repeat it for you in a TL//DR and even bold the critical point on what I said that you so blatantly dismissed:

the NB population, ESPECIALLY IN PvP, continues to grow exponentially

No clue what you're trying to prove with those screenshots. They are completely unrelated to what I commented.

[edited for baiting]

Deimus · April 30

Prionyx wrote: »

You are saying that unique synergy and must have ulti aren't good enough but you don't think about that NB will have even way less

Yup they are not good enough, and yes that's what I'm saying. Graverobber does 7k damage regardless of if you consumed a corpse with Boneyard for a 30% increase it still does 7k damage every 20 seconds when my spammable does 8.2k every gcd it's another useless Necro skill in pvp. ZOS killed a unique playstyle interaction that Necromancer had. Imagine if they gave cloak a stacking 100% ramping cost if cast within 5 seconds or a 10 second cooldown between casts. Bet you wouldn't be too happy with that.

You can get major vuln from a few sets now Archdruid Devyric can be ran by a person in a ball group. I haven't I've seen a ballgroup use Colossus anytime this year, and most Necros use Dawnbreaker as an ult. Ironic that we have to rely on the relic of a Daedric prince that loathes us.

What does NB have? Access to 25 named major/minor buffs quite a few of them now being slot it and forget it. U41 was supposed to make Necro less demanding it's baffling how hard they failed on that but NB now has it much easier. No need to cast siphon for healing now just to boost sustain, 100% uptime minor expedition on both bars for slotting your spammable, 100% uptime on major prophecy and savagery on either bar just for slotting cloak, Merciless Resolve stacks on either bar automatically just press to kill! NB skills are so loaded they're bursting at the seams.

Necro only has access 10 named major/minor buffs one of which is empower(useless in pvp) and major/minor defile (useless in pve), lost its hardest hitting skill, still doesn't have major brutality or sorcery, tethers break from los too easily to be viable in pvp, and most of their skills fall into clunky and unreliable, or just too plain weak to justify slotting over guild and weapon abilities.

Scribing will change a lot of things, say goodbye to EC cro! Rushing agony changes won't change the fact that everyone and their mother are going to play a NB in cyro.

Theist_VII · April 30

Any class can be good in group play, you just need to know their kit, and work around it.

Turn your Nightblade into a healer/executioner with Kvatch Gladiator and switch off spamming Sap Essence and Whirling Blades with 3 Bloodthirsty and hitting Soul Tether on cooldown.

You can give your whole group speed to pair with their Snowtreaders using Refreshing Path.

Araneae6537 · April 30

As long as any changes don’t hurt my ability to tank with NB, I don’t care what other changes are made to NB until the grim perma-red focus eyesore is fixed.

Foxtrot39 · April 30

As assassin they're quite mediocre in single damage DPS but have about no AOE damage skill the problem in group content is they're utterly redundent as they offer no group utility at all (in trial damage reduction debuff don't do crap against mechanics and DOT's based on your health) and when it does its barely noticeable

Other classes can deal similar damage as cleave that a NB can only pull on a single target

Burst damage in PVE is usually worthless, you need sustained damage

Also this graph posted on the NB class discussion official thread

Also mfw tank NB isn't even on the graph

Foxtrot39 · April 30

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Any class can be good in group play, you just need to know their kit, and work around it.

Turn your Nightblade into a healer/executioner with Kvatch Gladiator and switch off spamming Sap Essence and Whirling Blades with 3 Bloodthirsty and hitting Soul Tether on cooldown.

You can give your whole group speed to pair with their Snowtreaders using Refreshing Path.

Problem with that build is you doing nothing short of mediocre damage wise until 3/4 of the fight is over

Already have healers and its not refreshing path of the occasional soul tether that will make a difference

Does it sound fun tho? Sure

MashmalloMan · May 1

Really weird take to claim the Rushing Agony "adjustment" is somehow directly nerfing NB. Any class can pull enemies with different universal or in class skills, it was never NB's job unless I'm missing some unknown pvp zerg strat. I don't zerg so I wouldn't know, if that is the case, why would anyone fight to keep that role in the first place? Sounds like a terrible situation to be in.

Secondly, I said adjustment instead of nerf for a reason, the pull now takes 0.8s to activate, then shoots out a projectile for a minimum travel time of 0.2s - 0.4s in a much larger radius. The explosion was not changed, still counting down 2.0s from when you hit the skill on an enemy, meaning, the window between being pulled and dealing damage is now much shorter, around 0.8s to 1.0s, a perfect window for a skill like Dawnbreaker.

But what am I saying, dead set right? Trust, it's not going anywhere just like Dark Convergence and Plaguebreaker are still useful, just not on every single build in the game. Counterplay is a good thing.

MudcrabAttack · May 1

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

As assassin they're quite mediocre in single damage DPS but have about no AOE damage skill the problem in group content is they're utterly redundent as they offer no group utility at all (in trial damage reduction debuff don't do crap against mechanics and DOT's based on your health) and when it does its barely noticeable

Other classes can deal similar damage as cleave that a NB can only pull on a single target

Burst damage in PVE is usually worthless, you need sustained damage

Also this graph posted on the NB class discussion official thread

Also mfw tank NB isn't even on the graph

Yeah, I doubt most people reading this thread realize NB is abysmal in one half of the game compared to the rest of the classes.

But on the bright side the little dark shade gets to spin twice as often now…. That’s sure to fix the problem

Sakiri · May 1

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

As assassin they're quite mediocre in single damage DPS but have about no AOE damage skill the problem in group content is they're utterly redundent as they offer no group utility at all (in trial damage reduction debuff don't do crap against mechanics and DOT's based on your health) and when it does its barely noticeable

Other classes can deal similar damage as cleave that a NB can only pull on a single target

Burst damage in PVE is usually worthless, you need sustained damage

Also this graph posted on the NB class discussion official thread

Also mfw tank NB isn't even on the graph

I don't see stam sorc either.

Just tank. I don't play mine to tank right now.

BlueRaven · May 1

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

As assassin they're quite mediocre in single damage DPS but have about no AOE damage skill the problem in group content is they're utterly redundent as they offer no group utility at all (in trial damage reduction debuff don't do crap against mechanics and DOT's based on your health) and when it does its barely noticeable

Other classes can deal similar damage as cleave that a NB can only pull on a single target

Burst damage in PVE is usually worthless, you need sustained damage

Also this graph posted on the NB class discussion official thread

Also mfw tank NB isn't even on the graph

Just as an aside. It’s depressing that MSorcs are that low too. 😞

I switched from SNB to MSorc for trials due to how terrible NBs were. Now I may have to switch again? Ugh. I guess I would rather just stop doing trials.