Is it true!?

Mrtoobyy

I'm currently on the PTS trying out all new stuff and realized that the mount animation is changed? Is it finally happening, sprinting with the horse finally looks good!
If this is an intended change THANK YOU ZOS!

SkaraMinoc

The sprint animation doesn't appear to be working but the camel and horse look way better.

SickleCider

Whoa! Does anyone have a clip?

Katahdin

Its been a huge complaint since the beginning
Nice if they actually finally fixed it

EF321

SickleCider wrote: »

Whoa! Does anyone have a clip?

Last time it was on PTS it was much more noticeable. I can hardly tell if it actually changed.
But here it is, with Gifted Rider and Major Gallop:
https://youtu.be/1TXaX5WDDos

AnduinTryggva

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

SickleCider

EF321 wrote: »

SickleCider wrote: »

Whoa! Does anyone have a clip?

Last time it was on PTS it was much more noticeable. I can hardly tell if it actually changed.
But here it is, with Gifted Rider and Major Gallop:
https://youtu.be/1TXaX5WDDos

Thank you for sharing! It's very, very subtle, but it seems a little less herkyjerky. Hopefully it's not something we're desperately imagining!

BretonMage

I hope they didn't change the senche's animation, though, because it's perfect as it is.

mocap

What's the speed of the mount? Did you get speed upgrade 60, CP passive and pvp passive? Mount animation is good as long as mount doesn't run too fast, and becomes ugly after pumping everything for speed.

jaws343

BretonMage wrote: »

I hope they didn't change the senche's animation, though, because it's perfect as it is.

I pretty much only ride senche's on my main because the animation feels the smoothest. Not sure the animation I see in that video "feels" right visually, will definitely have to see once it is active.

FayJolyn

I thought something looked different. I like it! I might actually use something else than a senche now!

EF321

mocap wrote: »

What's the speed of the mount? Did you get speed upgrade 60, CP passive and pvp passive? Mount animation is good as long as mount doesn't run too fast, and becomes ugly after pumping everything for speed.

Should be max speed in video, 60 from training and assault passive, both from max char template (didn't check, trusting previous experience), manually slotted CP star.

NoTimeToWait

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

if you try to implement an accurate galloping animation for a horse, it would look not that great from the 3rd person camera at the back. Yeah, animators have it rough, since real life animations are not always completely applicable

AnduinTryggva

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

if you try to implement an accurate galloping animation for a horse, it would look not that great from the 3rd person camera at the back. Yeah, animators have it rough, since real life animations are not always completely applicable

Dunno why it should look bad from the 3P perspective cannot exclude it though.

However, as I also see others sprinting with their horses a lot a better sprinting animation would enormously improve the visual experience.

As we have it now they simply took the jogging animation and accelerated it for sprinting. Maybe they have now introduced some smoothing here for the next patch. But it is still just an acceleration of the jogging animation.

I mean, if a horse sprints its mane will fly in the air and not waggle a bit just to fall down in alternation.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

if you try to implement an accurate galloping animation for a horse, it would look not that great from the 3rd person camera at the back. Yeah, animators have it rough, since real life animations are not always completely applicable

A lot of games with a 3rd person view got much better horse models and animation. Games that even include earlier Elder Scrolls games, such as TES IV: Oblivion. Then of course we got games like Red Red Redemption which got amazing horses. And then I mean RDR 1, not just 2.

SickleCider

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

if you try to implement an accurate galloping animation for a horse, it would look not that great from the 3rd person camera at the back. Yeah, animators have it rough, since real life animations are not always completely applicable

I'm with the others, this needs expansion.

1. Bad in what way?
2. What about contrary examples?

Also, do you have personal experience with this? That one I'm just curious about.

meekmiko

I finally got a chance to look into this for myself on the PTS today and it really doesn't look much different to me at all.
I did however notice the sprint bug, much like it was back in the Necrom PTS cycle, where riding on your mount looks like you're sliding on glass or ice because your mount is moving the same basic speed but the world has "sped up" when you hold shift. The bug makes me feel sick when I look at any mount's feet while moving.

Fast Moving Ground + Slow Moving Mount Legs = 🤮

I also checked in on elk and horses and they still have the bugged back left leg that twitches. 🤷‍♀️

SickleCider

meekmiko wrote: »

I finally got a chance to look into this for myself on the PTS today and it really doesn't look much different to me at all.
I did however notice the sprint bug, much like it was back in the Necrom PTS cycle, where riding on your mount looks like you're sliding on glass or ice because your mount is moving the same basic speed but the world has "sped up" when you hold shift. The bug makes me feel sick when I look at any mount's feet while moving.

Fast Moving Ground + Slow Moving Mount Legs = 🤮

I also checked in on elk and horses and they still have the bugged back left leg that twitches. 🤷‍♀️

Why did you have to go and remind me about the leg? 💀 I was finally starting to unsee!

Shagreth

Is it really better? I feel like the difference is super subtle. I was hoping for more.

kargen27

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Nharimlur_Finor

Did they fix the stick-horse?
I got really annoyed when my char picked it up and ran with it.

Necrotech_Master

LaintalAy wrote: »

Did they fix the stick-horse?
I got really annoyed when my char picked it up and ran with it.

thats always been the "sprint" animation for the stick mounts, the character holds it in the left hand and just basically normally sprints lol

twev

kargen27 wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Draft horses are super bulky, and not built for speed.
A faster horse doesn't 'just' increase the speed of it's gait, it increases the length of it's stride.
Horses in ESO just speed up the beat of the gait, without increasing the length of stride.
They ought to stretch out the stride more, without doubling the gait.

It's the doubled gait that makes them look so choppy and bouncy.
IRL, that chop/bounce is super tiring on actual horses, and a horse with a poor gait can't gallop nearly as long or far.
Not to mention that it beats the hell out of the rider.

Nharimlur_Finor

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

Did they fix the stick-horse?
I got really annoyed when my char picked it up and ran with it.

thats always been the "sprint" animation for the stick mounts, the character holds it in the left hand and just basically normally sprints lol

That's why I'll never buy another one.

kargen27

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Draft horses are super bulky, and not built for speed.
A faster horse doesn't 'just' increase the speed of it's gait, it increases the length of it's stride.
Horses in ESO just speed up the beat of the gait, without increasing the length of stride.
They ought to stretch out the stride more, without doubling the gait.

exactly. The type of horse you would take into battle or on an adventure that could have deadly encounters. The type of horse that can carry six sets of armor.

twev

kargen27 wrote: »

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Draft horses are super bulky, and not built for speed.
A faster horse doesn't 'just' increase the speed of it's gait, it increases the length of it's stride.
Horses in ESO just speed up the beat of the gait, without increasing the length of stride.
They ought to stretch out the stride more, without doubling the gait.

exactly. The type of horse you would take into battle or on an adventure that could have deadly encounters. The type of horse that can carry six sets of armor.

But we don't take horses into battle.
We abandon horses immediately upon entering combat.
Knights rode palfreys when not actually jousting, and jousting was basically the only mounted combat.
A joust was a single charge in a ceremonial charge during a 'game'.
Knights rarely rode horses in combat because the bulk of armour made them unable to protect the horse, and a wounded horse wound drop a knight on his back in the field, leaving him mostly unable to get back up to fight or defend himself.
Palfreys were gentler traveling horses.

"A Knight and His Horse(s) When a knight needed a faster horse that could change direction quickly in battle, he rode a courser. For everyday use, he rode a smaller, all-purpose rouncey."

Cavalry rode light fast horses IN combat, and all the rest of the time they were mounted for travel.

Mounted combat is basically a shock Cavalry attack where the riders blaze through a line of defenders.
A plodding draft horse would leave you in the midst of defenders attacking the knight from all sides while he could only slowly defend one directed attack at a time, again, leaving the horse unprotected.

The first thing you did to a mounted knight was incapacitate the horse, leaving the knight on foot at best, and with one leg trapped under the incapacitated horse at worst.

Reference The Battle of Agincourt, where the English wiped out the French mounted cavalry and knights with basically a peasant army of archers.

ArchangelIsraphel

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Draft horses are super bulky, and not built for speed.
A faster horse doesn't 'just' increase the speed of it's gait, it increases the length of it's stride.
Horses in ESO just speed up the beat of the gait, without increasing the length of stride.
They ought to stretch out the stride more, without doubling the gait.

exactly. The type of horse you would take into battle or on an adventure that could have deadly encounters. The type of horse that can carry six sets of armor.

But we don't take horses into battle.
We abandon horses immediately upon entering combat.
Knights rode palfreys when not actually jousting, and jousting was basically the only mounted combat.
A joust was a single charge in a ceremonial charge during a 'game'.
Knights rarely rode horses in combat because the bulk of armour made them unable to protect the horse, and a wounded horse wound drop a knight on his back in the field, leaving him mostly unable to get back up to fight or defend himself.
Palfreys were gentler traveling horses.

"A Knight and His Horse(s) When a knight needed a faster horse that could change direction quickly in battle, he rode a courser. For everyday use, he rode a smaller, all-purpose rouncey."

Cavalry rode light fast horses IN combat, and all the rest of the time they were mounted for travel.

Mounted combat is basically a shock Cavalry attack where the riders blaze through a line of defenders.
A plodding draft horse would leave you in the midst of defenders attacking the knight from all sides while he could only slowly defend one directed attack at a time, again, leaving the horse unprotected.

The first thing you did to a mounted knight was incapacitate the horse, leaving the knight on foot at best, and with one leg trapped under the incapacitated horse at worst.

Reference The Battle of Agincourt, where the English wiped out the French mounted cavalry and knights with basically a peasant army of archers.

What is the source of your information regarding jousting being the only mounted combat? Because this is untrue. Lances were used in combat, on horseback. In fact, there were lances specifically made for warfare, and lances which were made for jousting.

Methods of fighting against mounted knights are discussed in books of the time, which have been preserved and can still be followed today by those who study history by actually training to do the things knights did in combat.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6abbGll0s

ModernHistory TV, as well as many other well-informed youtube channels, frequently discuss mounted combat during the medieval period, as well as the training involved to prepare a horse for combat. While there were indeed complications involved with mounted combat, it happened, and it was not just ceremonial jousting.

Even the famous Bayeux tapestry, which is a historical record of warfare in Normandy and England, depicts men in mounted combat.

TaSheen

When my younger granddaughter was born, we were in Germany to help daughter with the entire thing. We were there a month, and were able (horrible icy winter weather notwithstanding) to go through a couple of "castle+-museums". One of them had not only a prince's armor (complete with dents and bloodstains from combat) but photos (B&W, and extremely grainy) of said prince in armor on the ground next to his (VERY stout) horse, then lifted by footmen onto his horse, being handed his sword, and leading the charge into combat - the same sword that was poised in the glass case.... which was much taller than HE was, and I would not have liked to have tried to lift it. I don't now remember the prince's name etc (early 1997 - and all the photos I took in the museums, so long before iPhones/cameras, were lost when our storage facility had a major fire).

There was a fairly comprehensive list of actions the prince participated in. One of the photos was of his horse, dead, and the prince out of his armor and quite bloody. IIRC, the dates would have been in the late 1800s/early 1900s. This was before the German "unification" IIRC, and long before the "change" in the 30s - the city-states were still the governing bodies IIRC. I might have that wrong, but as far as I can recall, "unified Germany" was some ways in the future from the time period of this prince and his battles.

twev

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Draft horses are super bulky, and not built for speed.
A faster horse doesn't 'just' increase the speed of it's gait, it increases the length of it's stride.
Horses in ESO just speed up the beat of the gait, without increasing the length of stride.
They ought to stretch out the stride more, without doubling the gait.

exactly. The type of horse you would take into battle or on an adventure that could have deadly encounters. The type of horse that can carry six sets of armor.

But we don't take horses into battle.
We abandon horses immediately upon entering combat.
Knights rode palfreys when not actually jousting, and jousting was basically the only mounted combat.
A joust was a single charge in a ceremonial charge during a 'game'.
Knights rarely rode horses in combat because the bulk of armour made them unable to protect the horse, and a wounded horse wound drop a knight on his back in the field, leaving him mostly unable to get back up to fight or defend himself.
Palfreys were gentler traveling horses.

"A Knight and His Horse(s) When a knight needed a faster horse that could change direction quickly in battle, he rode a courser. For everyday use, he rode a smaller, all-purpose rouncey."

Cavalry rode light fast horses IN combat, and all the rest of the time they were mounted for travel.

Mounted combat is basically a shock Cavalry attack where the riders blaze through a line of defenders.
A plodding draft horse would leave you in the midst of defenders attacking the knight from all sides while he could only slowly defend one directed attack at a time, again, leaving the horse unprotected.

The first thing you did to a mounted knight was incapacitate the horse, leaving the knight on foot at best, and with one leg trapped under the incapacitated horse at worst.

Reference The Battle of Agincourt, where the English wiped out the French mounted cavalry and knights with basically a peasant army of archers.

What is the source of your information regarding jousting being the only mounted combat? Because this is untrue. Lances were used in combat, on horseback. In fact, there were lances specifically made for warfare, and lances which were made for jousting.

Methods of fighting against mounted knights are discussed in books of the time, which have been preserved and can still be followed today by those who study history by actually training to do the things knights did in combat.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6abbGll0s

ModernHistory TV, as well as many other well-informed youtube channels, frequently discuss mounted combat during the medieval period, as well as the training involved to prepare a horse for combat. While there were indeed complications involved with mounted combat, it happened, and it was not just ceremonial jousting.

Even the famous Bayeux tapestry, which is a historical record of warfare in Normandy and England, depicts men in mounted combat.

You're totally correct, I went off the rails using an in-congruent sentence from an incomplete thought.
I totally messed up the description.

As I said in another thread - corrections keep misinformation in check, Thanks for reading what I wrote more accurately than I did, and knowing where I went wrong.
An awesome for you.

But it needs to be expanded, that once the lance was broken, or lost in combat, the knight was left to close quarters combat on horse, which was difficult at best when fighting foot soldier with ranged weapons or pikes, as well as hordes of ordinary foot soldiers attacking from multiple directions.
Thats how the crusaders were decimated over time during the crusades.

The original rules of Chivalry expected knights to fight knights and anyone else they felt like attacking, but it was 'unthinkable' in their code that peasants and foot soldiers would be allowed to attack 'their betters', the nobles on horse.
It was generally considered to be illegal in 'civilized warfare' for non-nobles to attack nobles equipped as knights for a good bit of european history.
When the rules were broken - the knights were at a disadvantage.

Until gunpowder became used against attacking knights and later cavalry- tactics like 20-foot long pikes were used to break cavalry charges by knights by impaling horses, at which point the knights became lumbering combatants on foot.
Once a knight was on the ground - he was overpowered by masses, and generally overwhelmed.
The Swiss had few armoured knights, but they did exceedingly well against attacking knights using echelons of 20-foot pikes by pikemen using the pikes to take down the horses.

As I partially said earlier - cavalry charges were then used to shock with a frontal assault that would ride fast through an enemy line using speed over distance that knights couldn't match, (as well as flanking attacks to take the enemy from the sides and/or rear using speed) when pikes weren't used by defenders.
Especially true when flanking or attacking from the rear, when they were able to attack faster than the defenders were able to respond.
Heavily armoured knights were slower, and their horses carrying the weight had less stamina in reserve to accomplish the speed over distance.

And the tapestries were commissioned by the rich guys, who were generally nobles and in command of the knights, so it's little wonder they would glorify the noble's knights.
Not many common foot soldiers commissioned tapestries, and nobles had little need or use of glorifying the common foot soldier peasants besting knights.
The peasants were rarely recorded as being instrumental, since they had no station in life .

Hapexamendios

It's never bothered me and I'll likely not even notice a change.

twev

TaSheen wrote: »

When my younger granddaughter was born, we were in Germany to help daughter with the entire thing. We were there a month, and were able (horrible icy winter weather notwithstanding) to go through a couple of "castle+-museums". One of them had not only a prince's armor (complete with dents and bloodstains from combat) but photos (B&W, and extremely grainy) of said prince in armor on the ground next to his (VERY stout) horse, then lifted by footmen onto his horse, being handed his sword, and leading the charge into combat - the same sword that was poised in the glass case.... which was much taller than HE was, and I would not have liked to have tried to lift it. I don't now remember the prince's name etc (early 1997 - and all the photos I took in the museums, so long before iPhones/cameras, were lost when our storage facility had a major fire).

There was a fairly comprehensive list of actions the prince participated in. One of the photos was of his horse, dead, and the prince out of his armor and quite bloody. IIRC, the dates would have been in the late 1800s/early 1900s. This was before the German "unification" IIRC, and long before the "change" in the 30s - the city-states were still the governing bodies IIRC. I might have that wrong, but as far as I can recall, "unified Germany" was some ways in the future from the time period of this prince and his battles.

There are also examples of knights in heavy armour being hoisted onto horse with gantry cranes, since it was generally impossible for an armoured knight to mount a horse by himself.
Hence the 'VERY stout horse'.

The introduction of firearms in the 1500's proved quite costly to armored knights when used by infantry, and as firearms became more available in greater numbers, armoured knights became less useful.

'Most' of the armour on display is usually the best good looking/well preserved armour, and ceremonial stuff.
Some museums do have (usually in storage, but there are examples occasionally displayed of) knight's armour with fatal bullet holes and holes made by cannon shot. The damaged armour was rarely kept, but instead scrapped, since it was of little other use.