Zos warden players like ice damage

GusTheWizard

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

valenwood_vegan

Yeah this note was odd. A great example of a lack of an overall vision and random see-saw changes. Specific changes were made over the last year (or two? - hard to keep track) to make dps ice wardens an actual thing. Now it's gonna slowly be undone? I don't get it.

alexj4596b14_ESO

I used to play warden myself, and not so much now but Ice needs to stay damage. Instead, they should been looking at arcanist and thinking about how each skill line interact with the other. They should be doing this for every class honestly. Whoever built the arcanist skill lines needs a promotion due to how its but not necessarily the effect or skills themselves. The interplay between the different lines is what makes arcanist so fun to play, and so interesting to play as well. I am not saying all classes should be LIKE arcanist, but the synergies between skill lines really need to be looked at.

Araneae6537

I like how the skill lines of the original classes weren’t divided into tank, healing, and damage skill lines and instead different skills and different morphs are more optimal for different builds.

Arcanist works because it is one theme. But warden needs to be able to fulfill ranger, druid, and cryomancer fantasy archetypes. I want the option of playing a frost damage dealer. Ideally, I’d love for some of the plant skills to have tank-focused morphs — roots to snare enemies and vines to pull (it would be cool of one morph of vines pulled you to an ally while the other pulled an enemy to you).

ajkb78

Yeah this struck me as really really odd. For years and years there has been a common theme on the forums about how players want ice warden dd to be more viable.

I get that some classes have really obvious tank / heal / damage skill lines. Necromancer, for example. Warden really isn't, and shouldn't, be one of those classes. I guess the plants skill line is pretty solidly healing but the other two are more defined by their theme than by their role. And that's fine. Necromancer (and arcanist) might be the pattern for classes going forward but they aren't all like that and they don't need to be. I have a couple of wardens: I wouldn't say it's my favourite class, but this direction of travel will make it worse to play, with fewer character-defining options.

SkaiFaith

Agree with OP. Definitely not liking this idea.
The ice theme is really cool but if the line get made for tanks, as a solo oakensoul player I wouldn't need it anymore basically, and I don't want to get rid of my frosty damage and heals: yes, I don't want damage NOR heal to go away since Arctic and it's morphs are quite literally "my life".
(Shards is nice too btw)

I'm against the change and me myself I'm fine with how wardens are now.
If anything, I've seen others propose to change the animals skills to do frost damage instead of magic, making them all "blue-ish". Now that would be more cool 😎

Turtle_Bot

SkaiFaith wrote: »

The ice theme is really cool

Icy (I see) what you did there

SkaiFaith

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

The ice theme is really cool

Icy (I see) what you did there

And you didn't see yet my edited last line XD (which is probably grammatically incorrect, but still...)

runa_gate

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I like how the skill lines of the original classes weren’t divided into tank, healing, and damage skill lines and instead different skills and different morphs are more optimal for different builds.

A lot of otherwise inexplicable changes over the past couple years have been due to someone getting it in their head that a particular theme or design vision should just be applied to a particular skill or other system which has almost always changed things in a way we don't like.

yadibroz

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

SkaiFaith

yadibroz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

Ahahahah hell no...

yadibroz

SkaiFaith wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

Ahahahah hell no...

Like sorcerer and dk all fire and lightning but ice

ItsNotLiving

I like the animal companion tree a lot more than the ice, I hate being pigeon holed into ice staff so much. I only play warden because I like the animals. RIP my lightning staff.

SkaiFaith

yadibroz wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

Ahahahah hell no...

Like sorcerer and dk all fire and lightning but ice

I agree with other players that classes don't need to be focused on just one thing.

Warden is the only class I really enjoy because it mixes all the elements I like: flora, fauna and ice. It is just perfect for me.
I find all the other classes boring because of the single theme nature.

To be honest, the actual Warden class + Oakensoul + tether attacks (like Lightning and Resto staves - I would love if Ice staff would be same) are the three major reasons I stick to ESO and don't even consider trying other MMOs.

robpr

Or maybe we could stop messing with Warden at all? Last time we tried ZoS to do something they taped the ice staff to Wardens and practically destroyed the distinct Stamden identity. Warden is fine as it is now (except maybe Frozen Retreat).

Start with Ice Staff first, add more frost style sets, then maybe touch Warden skills.

SkaiFaith

@yadibroz I've seen your comment on the other thread, so you would be ok if Wardens would have more Ice too, right?
To that I agree - as I said, having some more frosty options/visuals in the other class skill lines would be awesome to me. Like a white polar bear, maybe a snow gryphon instead of the cliff, stuff like that I would pleasantly welcome.

Could you imagine wolves instead of wasps? Would be messy but gorgeous XD

yadibroz

SkaiFaith wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

Ahahahah hell no...

Like sorcerer and dk all fire and lightning but ice

I agree with other players that classes don't need to be focused on just one thing.

Warden is the only class I really enjoy because it mixes all the elements I like: flora, fauna and ice. It is just perfect for me.
I find all the other classes boring because of the single theme nature.

To be honest, the actual Warden class + Oakensoul + tether attacks (like Lightning and Resto staves - I would love if Ice staff would be same) are the three major reasons I stick to ESO and don't even consider trying other MMOs.

Issue is ice need more skills and there is not enough and same for soul magic

yadibroz

SkaiFaith wrote: »

@yadibroz I've seen your comment on the other thread, so you would be ok if Wardens would have more Ice too, right?
To that I agree - as I said, having some more frosty options/visuals in the other class skill lines would be awesome to me. Like a white polar bear, maybe a snow gryphon instead of the cliff, stuff like that I would pleasantly welcome.

Could you imagine wolves instead of wasps? Would be messy but gorgeous XD

I say if they at least separate the morph as some are bleed and some as frost, iT would make warden perfect and same with dk, some fire and some poison so 50% for all class to make them unique and different. Do you agree and I think that won't take too much rework.

SkaiFaith

yadibroz wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

@yadibroz I've seen your comment on the other thread, so you would be ok if Wardens would have more Ice too, right?
To that I agree - as I said, having some more frosty options/visuals in the other class skill lines would be awesome to me. Like a white polar bear, maybe a snow gryphon instead of the cliff, stuff like that I would pleasantly welcome.

Could you imagine wolves instead of wasps? Would be messy but gorgeous XD

I say if they at least separate the morph as some are bleed and some as frost, iT would make warden perfect and same with dk, some fire and some poison so 50% for all class to make them unique and different. Do you agree and I think that won't take too much rework.

Yeah, this seems reasonable, I can back it.

Edit: but still, I would not want my damage and heals taken away from the frosty skill line. They are so good...

Skjaldbjorn

What Warden actually needs is a top-down redesign. Warden, for being the first DLC class, comparatively feels archaic and clunky. It needs an extensive overhaul and a reimagining from a conceptual perspective. It feels like they just said "Hey, this is Morrowind-y" and chuck stuff at the wall with little actual direction.

Alaztor91

Animal Companions IS the DPS skill line though, just like how Green Balance is the healing one and Winter's Embrace the tank one. Tbh the only reason ZOS started adding more damage to the Winter's Embrace line was because they refuse to make Ice Staff a proper DPS weapon.

That's why they ended up making absurd changes like Piercing Cold being 6x better if you wield an Ice Staff or Winter's Revenge doing 30% more damage if using a Destro Staff.

Hottytotz

yadibroz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

No because this will never happen we need to salvage what ice theme warden has left. I wish it was its ONLY theme to be honest.

IF by some miracle an actuall ice class version of fire DK became a thing I would understand but that is likely NOT happening. So we need to double down on frost warden until that actually can become a reality.

YandereGirlfriend

Imagine Bird but instead of a Cliffracer it's an Ice Wraith.

Also Glacial Shalks and Frozen Fetcherflies or something. And Snow Bear ultimate.

These are easy changes to make they just... need to actually be made.

ADarklore

This better not occur because I specifically created a new Frostden as my main - BECAUSE OF- the frost damage! @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

If anything makes me walk away from ESO, which I have been a loyal player for many years... it would be because of destroying the Frostden build. Most players play Frostden 'because of' being able to play as an ice mage... so what is the purpose of destroying this build that many players enjoy?!? I don't understand the logic. Sure, add more options to the damage skill line to make more variety, but do not destroy the Frostden in the process of that. Options are better, not destroying people's hard earned and much loved builds. I mean, what's the purpose of "Frostbite" set if not to increase frost damage- to which only ONE class has a viable frost build option. You destroy Frostden, you might as well remove Frostbite from the game too. Just something to pass along to those making these decisions.

Galeriano2

There's plenty of ice damage coming up with scribing.

Savos_Saren

yadibroz wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

yadibroz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

They need to remove ice and add it to a new class

Ahahahah hell no...

Like sorcerer and dk all fire and lightning but ice

Sorcerer has Magic/Physical/Lightning damage. DK has Poison/Physical/Fire damage. Warden has Magic/Bleed/Frost damage. None are pigeon-holed into one type of damage.

Getting rid of frost damage from tanky/CC skills (ie Impaling Shards) would be the same as removing magic damage from Encase or flame damage from Talons.

Or does ZOS mean getting rid of frost damage from the Ice Warden's tank's ultimate?

Removing frost damage from Sleet Storm would be the same as removing magic damage from Gibbering Shield or Ravenous Goliath.

So, I'm not really sure what ZOS wants to remove, really. Some tank skills have damage. Some don't. If they want to allow "tanky skills" to have damage without being over-powered on a DPS character- I guess they can make those skills based off the health bar or max resistances?

I like that ZOS bases Impaling Shards off health. That way- you don't have a DPS (high mag/stam, high spell/weap power) with high damaging immobility skills. It's a fair trade-off.

ADarklore

I think ZOS needs to clarify their intentions for the future of Warden and what they mean by, "so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line."

Honestly, having just read the above quote this morning, it makes me not even want to continue playing my Frostden if their intention is to destroy the build. What's the point? I mean, 'Play how you want' once again becomes, 'Play how WE want you to play'. As I mentioned before, I'm all for adding OPTIONS for players, but I am completely against taking options away to try to force players to 'play how YOU (the devs) think we should play'.

The horse has already left the station if ZOS didn't want players to utilize the Winter's Embrace for damage, because it's been part of the line since the beginning. Then adding increases to that Frost damage to give players the option to play as a dedicated Frostden DPS, now talking about taking it away?!? WHY?!? That's what I want to know. How about just increase damage in the Animal Companion line, to give players the option to play as an animal-based Warden or not... sounds like a win-win to me. Why risk alienating more players by destroying established builds and play-styles... for no real, necessary reason.

Again, without an explanation of what they mean by the above quote, all we can do is speculate about what's going on with the future of the Warden class and Frostden builds in general.

ESO_Nightingale

GusTheWizard wrote: »

We are also trying to add more sources of damage to their damage focused skill line, so we can slowly look at shifting damage out of their tanking focused skill line.

Let us stop you right there zos I would say most wardens play this class because it is an ice focused class myself included, my least favorite part of the class are the animal companions skills, please don’t remove what we’ve been telling you we wanted for 6 years, we finally got good ice damage in the last year and a half.

i'm glad someone was able to say this before me haha, i've been so busy this week i haven't had time to test much at all

brandsnipe

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

I used to play warden myself, and not so much now but Ice needs to stay damage. Instead, they should been looking at arcanist and thinking about how each skill line interact with the other. They should be doing this for every class honestly. Whoever built the arcanist skill lines needs a promotion due to how its but not necessarily the effect or skills themselves. The interplay between the different lines is what makes arcanist so fun to play, and so interesting to play as well. I am not saying all classes should be LIKE arcanist, but the synergies between skill lines really need to be looked at.

That class was designed very well. I wish necro was designed half as good

GusTheWizard

Galeriano2 wrote: »

There's plenty of ice damage coming up with scribing.

Two skills with ice damage, one is terrible and the other is just decent.

And the point is that warden has passives and buffs in its ice line to help make those skills better for them to use on warden, otherwise you might as well use fire or lightning damage because their status effects give better buffs.

Lystrad

Hottytotz wrote: »

No because this will never happen we need to salvage what ice theme warden has left. I wish it was its ONLY theme to be honest.

IF by some miracle an actuall ice class version of fire DK became a thing I would understand but that is likely NOT happening. So we need to double down on frost warden until that actually can become a reality.

I also kind of wish it had a single unified theme tbqh. Though I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to be nature or frost. On one hand lots of frost would be cool, but I also prefer for magic types to not feel 100% married to specific classes (preference for is fine though).

That said warden is such a polarizing class for me because when I play it, it feels like it's themes are at odds with eachother and based on what I'm trying to do there is always at least one part of it's kit I want nothing to do with but feel like I'm crippling myself if I avoid it.

When the character I want to play is leaning towards a ranger archetype, I want nothing to do with the frost part of the tree and end up looking for as many neutral abilities as I can to avoid it, which usually leads into playing with oakensoul.

When the character I want to play leans into a frost mage archetype, the bear is fine but other than that I want nothing to do with the animal or plant based aspects of the class and will usually gravitate to an almost entirely class neutral ability set, in some cases crippling my own build intentionally just to not have my class fantasy violated by my class abilities, ironically enough.

Weirdly I don't think warden would have this same issue if it's destruction magic based skill line was shock or flame instead of frost, since, with it being a Morrowind themed class both of those gel better with the rest of it's kit due to it's natural environment.