As a tank which is your worst PUG dungeon?

Veinblood1965

I used to tank all the time on my DK tank and almost exclusively PUG's on Vet and Normal and quit due to getting involved in PVP. It's been about three years or so since I last tanked. Lately I've looking to complete a few sticker book sets for PVP and got tired of waiting for a PUG with my DPS and then getting a fake tank which happens a lot.

I looked up a few current builds for dk tanks and luckily had the sets so I started running Schrivener's Hall for the Apocryphal Inspiration Resto staff for a healer build I'm working on and OMG. Is it me or have PUG's gotten just plain horrible? Around 80 percent of the time the DPS do not know the mechanics, even the simple mechanics like on the first boss, they do not know to go get the books. I have had group voice chat on and trying to explain gently in group chat what they need to do and most of the time they just stand there wailing on the boss and it's a wipe unless I'm lucky and get some seriously high DPS. I usually just go grab the books myself dragging the boss with me which works just fine but it is annoying. Luckily the last two bosses are more tank driven.

I'm thinking that a higher percentage of the newer dungeons compared to the older ones are more mechanic driven. Still had these problems back in the day but not this much.

As a tank what is everyone else seeing? What would you say is your worst PUG dungeon?

Calm_Fury

For about 3 years I used to do nothing but PUG Tank vet dungeons (yes, I know).

While for most dungeons I would be happy to try to explain mechanics, and only give up if we tried 4, 5 times without success, one dungeon was always one that I didn't try as much: Lair of Maarselok.

I actually loved running that dungeon with a good group of guildies, but I suspect my completion rate with PUGs was probably less than 1%. That fight where the dragon just keeps flying up is a complete nightmare with PUGs (that usually have very low DPS).

I haven't played that much in the last 2 years so I don't know about the newer dungeons, but from trying them solo I imagine most of the new DLC ones will be roughly like this.

I honestly don't like much the recent dungeon design of just putting AOE stuff on the ground everywhere, having lots of mechanics far away all the time, phased bosses everywhere. For PUGing, if you need to explain 6, 7 mechanics at once, the chance of failure is way too high.

They do tend to heavily nerf dungeons after a couple of years, though. Frostvault used to be a horrible dungeon to PUG Tank but after nerfs I even got several of the achievements with random groups.

AntonShan

As a tank which is your worst PUG dungeon?

Every single one of them

Soarora

Bloodroot forge, scriviner’s hall, scalecaller peak, frostvault, and depths of malatar all can get pretty iffy with PuGs. I’ve heard bedlam veil gets pretty bad too but I haven’t experienced that one in a pug yet.

El_Borracho

Graven Deep is the undisputed champion. Hit the orb. Please hit the orb. HIT THE ORB!!!

Scrivener's if the DDs don't understand the books on the first boss or the AOEs on the final boss. Depths of Malatar with the last boss Auroran mechanic. March of Sacrifices with the Indrik boss. And there is always Darkshade 2 hardmode, which still manages to kill DDs after all these years

Soarora

El_Borracho wrote: »

Graven Deep is the undisputed champion. Hit the orb. Please hit the orb. HIT THE ORB!!!

As a tank you can solo graven deep orbs on non-HM. Stand on a corner pad and keep inner fire on your frontbar. Just look left and right and inner fire them when they get too low for your liking.

El_Borracho

Soarora wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Graven Deep is the undisputed champion. Hit the orb. Please hit the orb. HIT THE ORB!!!

As a tank you can solo graven deep orbs on non-HM. Stand on a corner pad and keep inner fire on your frontbar. Just look left and right and inner fire them when they get too low for your liking.

I'll have to give this a try. I got to the point that I run it only on a DD for pugs. Thanks!

Amottica

vCOA II was probably the final straw for me trying to help GF groups by tanking for them. One boss heals from their adds, a boss that spawns a ton of adds, and twin bosses that keep spawning atros.

While I had seen groups struggle with bosses in many dungeons which I looked at as making me a better tank, vCOA II is where I came across hard stops due to low DPS which is far too common with such random groups.

Now I run exclusively with guilds and friends though we may pug one player from time to time. I still get to help players that are learning via my social guild but it is one person learning or wants a clear with three of us that know what we are doing. Much better than 3 people trying to figure it all out.

pelle412

El_Borracho wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Graven Deep is the undisputed champion. Hit the orb. Please hit the orb. HIT THE ORB!!!

As a tank you can solo graven deep orbs on non-HM. Stand on a corner pad and keep inner fire on your frontbar. Just look left and right and inner fire them when they get too low for your liking.

I'll have to give this a try. I got to the point that I run it only on a DD for pugs. Thanks!

You can also light attack them with your ice staff. Works just as well and costs no mag.

AvalonRanger

Graven Deep
Scriviner's hall
Scalecaller peak
Frostvault

As a support role main player, I've never seen more reliable PUG tank and healer player than mine.
But, I've met reliable leader player many times. So, PUG is not always so bad.

AvalonRanger

Mostly low skill healer kill the DD, regardless which dungeon is.
70% fail reason is bad healer.

N00BxV1

The only thing I do in game these days is solo queue as a Tank for Veteran Dungeons using the Activity Finder (multiple Randoms and Pledges usually on multiple characters). I have earned all Veteran Base Game Dungeon and most of the Veteran DLC Dungeon achievements purely using PUG's. And anyone who says that they have problems with Normal Dungeons or Veteran Base Game Dungeons (these are a non issue!!!) hasn't a clue about the daily struggle with PUG's in a lot of the Veteran DLC Dungeons... Like sometimes I get seriously close to just quitting the game altogether out of pure frustration because of the way people behave these days.

(For reference, "vDLC" = Veteran DLC Dungeon)
I can't say for certain which vDLC(s) is the worst because it really just depends on the group. I have some PUG's that do just fine without any problems, but then the very next PUG can be a complete nightmare and in some cases unable to complete the dungeon. Really the worst vDLC is any while in a PUG with a Fake Healer (literally fake, as in a DPS player who skipped the queue by queuing as a Healer) and/or players who don't want to or can't follow the mechanics. Just FYI mechanics are not only the Tank's job -- everyone needs to cooperate in a lot of the vDLC's and if you don't then in some cases it can be nearly impossible to complete them. I have even had to solo some of the vDLC bosses (ON A TANK!!!) because the group was incapable of following instructions.

I also need to say that the toxicity from the Normal Dungeon queue has absolutely carried over into the Veteran Dungeon queue. I called this years ago when they introduced the Transmute Crystal rewards and when I seen how bad the Normal Dungeon queue was getting... Fake Healers, Leeroy Jenkins (speed-runners that rush ahead pulling adds/bosses and either die or cause other players to die), and players who are unprepared for the content or expect to get carried because they "want something from this dungeon".

PS: Most of the problems that we have in Dungeons are created and allowed by the developers. Players will just use whatever is given to them and are allowed to get away with. And the players will not change until the developers makes some changes...

BejaProphet

N00BxV1 wrote: »

The only thing I do in game these days is solo queue as a Tank for Veteran Dungeons using the Activity Finder (multiple Randoms and Pledges usually on multiple characters). I have earned all Veteran Base Game Dungeon and most of the Veteran DLC Dungeon achievements purely using PUG's. And anyone who says that they have problems with Normal Dungeons or Veteran Base Game Dungeons (these are a non issue!!!) hasn't a clue about the daily struggle with PUG's in a lot of the Veteran DLC Dungeons... Like sometimes I get seriously close to just quitting the game altogether out of pure frustration because of the way people behave these days.

(For reference, "vDLC" = Veteran DLC Dungeon)
I can't say for certain which vDLC(s) is the worst because it really just depends on the group. I have some PUG's that do just fine without any problems, but then the very next PUG can be a complete nightmare and in some cases unable to complete the dungeon. Really the worst vDLC is any while in a PUG with a Fake Healer (literally fake, as in a DPS player who skipped the queue by queuing as a Healer) and/or players who don't want to or can't follow the mechanics. Just FYI mechanics are not only the Tank's job -- everyone needs to cooperate in a lot of the vDLC's and if you don't then in some cases it can be nearly impossible to complete them. I have even had to solo some of the vDLC bosses (ON A TANK!!!) because the group was incapable of following instructions.

I also need to say that the toxicity from the Normal Dungeon queue has absolutely carried over into the Veteran Dungeon queue. I called this years ago when they introduced the Transmute Crystal rewards and when I seen how bad the Normal Dungeon queue was getting... Fake Healers, Leeroy Jenkins (speed-runners that rush ahead pulling adds/bosses and either die or cause other players to die), and players who are unprepared for the content or expect to get carried because they "want something from this dungeon".

PS: Most of the problems that we have in Dungeons are created and allowed by the developers. Players will just use whatever is given to them and are allowed to get away with. And the players will not change until the developers makes some changes...

Lot of true stuff here. I’d just add that what needs to change is most likely the incentive structures rather than options.

N00BxV1

BejaProphet wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

The only thing I do in game these days is solo queue as a Tank for Veteran Dungeons using the Activity Finder (multiple Randoms and Pledges usually on multiple characters). I have earned all Veteran Base Game Dungeon and most of the Veteran DLC Dungeon achievements purely using PUG's. And anyone who says that they have problems with Normal Dungeons or Veteran Base Game Dungeons (these are a non issue!!!) hasn't a clue about the daily struggle with PUG's in a lot of the Veteran DLC Dungeons... Like sometimes I get seriously close to just quitting the game altogether out of pure frustration because of the way people behave these days.

(For reference, "vDLC" = Veteran DLC Dungeon)
I can't say for certain which vDLC(s) is the worst because it really just depends on the group. I have some PUG's that do just fine without any problems, but then the very next PUG can be a complete nightmare and in some cases unable to complete the dungeon. Really the worst vDLC is any while in a PUG with a Fake Healer (literally fake, as in a DPS player who skipped the queue by queuing as a Healer) and/or players who don't want to or can't follow the mechanics. Just FYI mechanics are not only the Tank's job -- everyone needs to cooperate in a lot of the vDLC's and if you don't then in some cases it can be nearly impossible to complete them. I have even had to solo some of the vDLC bosses (ON A TANK!!!) because the group was incapable of following instructions.

I also need to say that the toxicity from the Normal Dungeon queue has absolutely carried over into the Veteran Dungeon queue. I called this years ago when they introduced the Transmute Crystal rewards and when I seen how bad the Normal Dungeon queue was getting... Fake Healers, Leeroy Jenkins (speed-runners that rush ahead pulling adds/bosses and either die or cause other players to die), and players who are unprepared for the content or expect to get carried because they "want something from this dungeon".

PS: Most of the problems that we have in Dungeons are created and allowed by the developers. Players will just use whatever is given to them and are allowed to get away with. And the players will not change until the developers makes some changes...

Lot of true stuff here. I’d just add that what needs to change is most likely the incentive structures rather than options.

Yes the incentive structure needs a rework. There needs to be more/better incentives for running Dungeons...

> We get 10 Transmute Crystals for the Daily Random Normal Dungeon, but only 10 Transmute Crystals for the Daily Random Veteran Dungeon. The Daily Random Veteran Dungeon should obviously reward more than the Daily Random Normal Dungeon.

> We get 1 Transmute Crystal for each additional Random Normal Dungeon, but only 1 Transmute Crystal for each additional Random Veteran Dungeon. Again, the Veteran rewards should be more than the Normal rewards.

This seems to be a problem with most of the game's rewards, you're often not rewarded for your time and effort. Point being: It takes ~2 minutes to do a set of Crafting Writs that will reward ~5K Gold plus other resources that are often worth even more. But it takes hours of running several Veteran Dungeons and selling everything that you loot to a vendor (since all the gear is bound) just to earn anywhere near the amount of Gold that you'd get from just one set of Crafting Writs...

And trust me, if you're not in a Trading Guild and you only run endgame content, then you will probably always be broke because it costs more than you earn just to run. I can't even afford Tri-Pots most of the time just to use while running the content that I enjoy...

Necrotech_Master

any dungeon with a speedster that runs ahead of the group

one of the worst cases ive seen was a run in scalecaller peak, someone ran off aggroing everything and got up to the first boss, and then pulled everyone into the fight, which killed everyone because both of the bosses were sitting on top of each other right where you get pulled to, and that poison aura dot is deadly even on normal

needless to say i just dropped group after that death, i wasnt going to frustrate myself with a whole dungeon of that nonsense

Suddwrath

Direfrost Keep HM.

It's a base game dungeon, but low DPS + players not breaking free = an excruciatingly long fight. I usually swap to DPS bars/sets for the fight if the group damage is too low since the boss cannot be taunted anyways.

El_Borracho

Suddwrath wrote: »

Direfrost Keep HM.

It's a base game dungeon, but low DPS + players not breaking free = an excruciatingly long fight. I usually swap to DPS bars/sets for the fight if the group damage is too low since the boss cannot be taunted anyways.

LOL. You should have been around when they had the break free glitch years ago. Oh, what fun.

Paramedicus

surprised noone mentinoned Moongrave Fane. First and second boss can be pretty wild if peepz dont underastand mechs.

anyway, I must say that pugs have some respect for the vet DLC. Most of my pug runs are successful, and it's rare for a team to be so bad they can't finish. Or maybe the pug gods just love me and i get better teams, while you guys get the rest, idk.

Sockermannen

I’m gonna say direfrost keep

Not because there is anything wrong with the dungeon itself but it seems to be the one where i run into most of the really bad fake roles.

DDs doing a combined 10k with just light attack spam.

Low CP fake tanks that pull as much damage as real tanks while racking up more deaths than Sean Bean but it’s ok because ”it’s just a base game dungeon lol”

I’ve had people just wander of during the first boss by the brazier because ”i don’t want to fight anymore i want to explore”.

Also the whole break free mechanic at the end can get messy if people don’t know how to do it (and a shocking amount of people don’t or can’t be bothered to)

If there is any dungeon i won’t do on pledge day without guild mates around it’s that one.

pelle412

Any dungeon with bad dps players is tedious. This is why many tanks prefer to run with people they know.

mocap

Players who endlessly try HM on last boss but don't know a damn thing about mechanics. And for some reason they don't ask anything in chat.

Soarora

mocap wrote: »

Players who endlessly try HM on last boss but don't know a damn thing about mechanics. And for some reason they don't ask anything in chat.

If I know the group can’t do HM I pull before they can activate it. If they’re stubborn about doing it when they just can’t… then its time to leave.