TARNISHED NIGHTMARE IS ACTING LIKE PROXY DET AND VICIOUS DEATH

Seyer530

This set is bugged. It is working like an AOE that increases its damage exponentially just like Proxy Det and Vicious Death, increasing its damage based on how many people it hits. It is absolutely stupid and broken and needs to be remedied immediately because of course, the toxic players in Cyrodiil are abusing it like crazy. Please stop making broken sets like this for the game, you are losing players as it is and this makes decent, good people who give you money for this game not want to play anymore.

virtus753

Can you provide more information here, such as a screenshot or logs with actual numbers from the current patch (since the latest incremental)?

I cannot reproduce this on the PTS. The damage does not scale regardless of whether I'm hitting one dummy or six or fifteen. If there is a bug such that this set scales, it must have been introduced in the most recent patch. Without specific numbers, though, it won't be possible to figure out what's happening.

Combat Metrics shows the actual values per hit per target. For me it is showing that the damage is not scaling with more targets.

No matter how many dummies I attack at once, I see only three base damage values for Tarnished Nightmare. Almost all hits are 1327, with the occasional 1229 or 1451. I will try to work out the math on this later, but I'm thinking these variations are likely due to the timing of the buff and debuff of Sundered.

These numbers stay at those values no matter how many dummies I attack or how long I keep proccing the set.

I'd be very curious to see the numbers on live right now but haven't kept enough pieces of the set to test it.

splitsand

Every AoE ability and set should act like this. This is healthy for the current state of cyro and stacking HoT's and shields. I hope it is very much intended and that they continue to add sets like this to discourage huge stacks and ball groups that are ruining the PvP experience for most.

React

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

GrigorijMalahevich

This is a feature, not a bug.

The mid ball groups have ruined the game for your average Cyrodiil player and what is currently happening is just karma.

P.S. imagine dying to a single player as a ball group, sounds like a l2p issue tbf.

Tattooo

It sounds like an awful bug, yet I am happy about it existing because there is so little counterplay to big groups stacking in Cyrodiil.

Maybe this could be implemented as a feature? The sets damage itself is quite small.

sharquez

I'd say just adjust the text to mention it and call it a feature.

virtus753

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

This is a feature, not a bug.

The mid ball groups have ruined the game for your average Cyrodiil player and what is currently happening is just karma.

P.S. imagine dying to a single player as a ball group, sounds like a l2p issue tbf.

Tattooo wrote: »

It sounds like an awful bug, yet I am happy about it existing because there is so little counterplay to big groups stacking in Cyrodiil.

Maybe this could be implemented as a feature? The sets damage itself is quite small.

sharquez wrote: »

I'd say just adjust the text to mention it and call it a feature.

Can you please link or post proof of this set actually scaling on live? It does not on the PTS.

GrigorijMalahevich

virtus753 wrote: »

Can you provide more information here, such as a screenshot or logs with actual numbers from the current patch (since the latest incremental)?

I cannot reproduce this on the PTS. The damage does not scale regardless of whether I'm hitting one dummy or six or fifteen. If there is a bug such that this set scales, it must have been introduced in the most recent patch. Without specific numbers, though, it won't be possible to figure out what's happening.

Combat Metrics shows the actual values per hit per target. For me it is showing that the damage is not scaling with more targets.

No matter how many dummies I attack at once, I see only three base damage values for Tarnished Nightmare. Almost all hits are 1327, with the occasional 1229 or 1451. I will try to work out the math on this later, but I'm thinking these variations are likely due to the timing of the buff and debuff of Sundered.

These numbers stay at those values no matter how many dummies I attack or how long I keep proccing the set.

I'd be very curious to see the numbers on live right now but haven't kept enough pieces of the set to test it.

maybe he is lying, some false flag alarm with the goal to confuse the issue

Eldemar_Kron

oh, so we finally got some decent counterplay vs ballgroups.
Funny that it was unintended..

That would be good to properly build that feature in coz set was just copying Frenzied Momentun tooltip of proc dmg but in format of 5p set with some minor differences... that's boring.

GrigorijMalahevich

virtus753 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

This is a feature, not a bug.

The mid ball groups have ruined the game for your average Cyrodiil player and what is currently happening is just karma.

P.S. imagine dying to a single player as a ball group, sounds like a l2p issue tbf.

Tattooo wrote: »

It sounds like an awful bug, yet I am happy about it existing because there is so little counterplay to big groups stacking in Cyrodiil.

Maybe this could be implemented as a feature? The sets damage itself is quite small.

sharquez wrote: »

I'd say just adjust the text to mention it and call it a feature.

Can you please link or post proof of this set actually scaling on live? It does not on the PTS.

are you actually asking for an exploit guide? a

caserdar

real good design, please also enable in ravenwatch campaign, cheers

virtus753

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

This is a feature, not a bug.

The mid ball groups have ruined the game for your average Cyrodiil player and what is currently happening is just karma.

P.S. imagine dying to a single player as a ball group, sounds like a l2p issue tbf.

Tattooo wrote: »

It sounds like an awful bug, yet I am happy about it existing because there is so little counterplay to big groups stacking in Cyrodiil.

Maybe this could be implemented as a feature? The sets damage itself is quite small.

sharquez wrote: »

I'd say just adjust the text to mention it and call it a feature.

Can you please link or post proof of this set actually scaling on live? It does not on the PTS.

are you actually asking for an exploit guide? a

Using combat metrics and logs is an exploit now? XD

Necrotech_Master

@virtus753 see this thread here, someone posted video of getting hit with a 30k tarnished proc https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655246/a-typical-day-of-tarnished-nightmare#latest

virtus753

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

@virtus753 see this thread here, someone posted video of getting hit with a 30k tarnished proc https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655246/a-typical-day-of-tarnished-nightmare#latest

Thank you, I’ll have a look!

Heresyall

All aoes should work the same way against players in cyrodiil

virtus753

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

@virtus753 see this thread here, someone posted video of getting hit with a 30k tarnished proc https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/655246/a-typical-day-of-tarnished-nightmare#latest

Thanks again for the link. I think Telel probably has it right that the death recap suggests that Tarnished Nightmare is likely being made to overperform somehow.

But that is an entirely different claim than that the set per se "scales exponentially" and thus "acts like Proxy Det and Vicious Death." I can't find any proof that that's what's happening. Absent proof that the set functions that way now on live, I would suspect a bad interaction with something else. It wouldn't be appropriate to detail that interaction or list steps to reproduce it, if that's the case, but it also wouldn't be appropriate to disseminate misinformation about the nature of the issue.

If people believe the set itself is bugged to scale exponentially, when it actually isn't, they may well avoid the set entirely and start reporting other players just for using it. If it's a bad interaction that certain players are abusing, then a distinction must be made between valid usage of the set and exploitation. That won't happen if the problem is misidentified and pinned on the set itself.

That's why I'm asking for Combat Metrics/logs on the set. Not details on bad interactions with other things.

Galeriano2

splitsand wrote: »

Every AoE ability and set should act like this. This is healthy for the current state of cyro and stacking HoT's and shields. I hope it is very much intended and that they continue to add sets like this to discourage huge stacks and ball groups that are ruining the PvP experience for most.

Zergs would be first to start abusing sets like that.

Kikazaru

Posting here from another thread.




Please fix before the fire spreads uncontrollably.

merevie

Counterplay?
An hour ago Ep was at Ash, and multiple sorcs were standing on the door, in 3 coldfire and 3+ oils, and the TOTAL damage tick from their streamer ballgroup?

6k

And yes, they too wear Tarnished.

Turtle_Bot

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

There should be more stuff that discourages ball grouping, but this set is just straight up bugged (to the point it makes OG wrothgar/convergence look balanced by comparison). 53k+ from a single instance of damage from a proc set no less is not ok.

It's not like it's even hard to achieve that damage, you just activate 1 ability then cloak into the middle of a group of enemies and watch them all instantly wipe to a 50k+ proc.

Would be more interesting if any class could reliably do this, but there's only 1 class in the game currently that has an on demand guaranteed critical hit that can proc this unintended interaction with this set.

Also, fun fact, this can be used at range too, so no need to even put yourself at risk by getting close to the group of enemies and the ranged version cannot be avoided/prevented because of how the ability that interacts with this set functions.

Major_Toughness

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

There should be more stuff that discourages ball grouping, but this set is just straight up bugged (to the point it makes OG wrothgar/convergence look balanced by comparison). 53k+ from a single instance of damage from a proc set no less is not ok.

It's not like it's even hard to achieve that damage, you just activate 1 ability then cloak into the middle of a group of enemies and watch them all instantly wipe to a 50k+ proc.

Would be more interesting if any class could reliably do this, but there's only 1 class in the game currently that has an on demand guaranteed critical hit that can proc this unintended interaction with this set.

Also, fun fact, this can be used at range too, so no need to even put yourself at risk by getting close to the group of enemies and the ranged version cannot be avoided/prevented because of how the ability that interacts with this set functions.

It works with Inevitable morph too. So every class can do it from range.

Turtle_Bot

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

There should be more stuff that discourages ball grouping, but this set is just straight up bugged (to the point it makes OG wrothgar/convergence look balanced by comparison). 53k+ from a single instance of damage from a proc set no less is not ok.

It's not like it's even hard to achieve that damage, you just activate 1 ability then cloak into the middle of a group of enemies and watch them all instantly wipe to a 50k+ proc.

Would be more interesting if any class could reliably do this, but there's only 1 class in the game currently that has an on demand guaranteed critical hit that can proc this unintended interaction with this set.

Also, fun fact, this can be used at range too, so no need to even put yourself at risk by getting close to the group of enemies and the ranged version cannot be avoided/prevented because of how the ability that interacts with this set functions.

It works with Inevitable morph too. So every class can do it from range.

not every class can guarantee the crit (which is the proc condition for the set).

Galeriano2

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wow, crazy bug.

There really should be more stuff like that in the game though. Maybe if proxy det actually did that kind of damage, it would discourage some of the behaviors (like ball grouping) that are running rampant and ruining the experience for everybody else..

There should be more stuff that discourages ball grouping, but this set is just straight up bugged (to the point it makes OG wrothgar/convergence look balanced by comparison). 53k+ from a single instance of damage from a proc set no less is not ok.

It's not like it's even hard to achieve that damage, you just activate 1 ability then cloak into the middle of a group of enemies and watch them all instantly wipe to a 50k+ proc.

Would be more interesting if any class could reliably do this, but there's only 1 class in the game currently that has an on demand guaranteed critical hit that can proc this unintended interaction with this set.

Also, fun fact, this can be used at range too, so no need to even put yourself at risk by getting close to the group of enemies and the ranged version cannot be avoided/prevented because of how the ability that interacts with this set functions.

It works with Inevitable morph too. So every class can do it from range.

not every class can guarantee the crit (which is the proc condition for the set).

Well You can just spam cast Inevitable det on multiple targets and some of them will get the crit that will trigger the proc. Even If one target stands close to others and detonation's explosion will crit on someone else it will proc tarnished with increased dmg value.

Major_Toughness

Set also has 3 lines of crit so it's hard to not have at least like 40% chance if you actually want to do this.

JerBearESO

They should cut its base damage in half and just give it the bugged effect at its core. We need more anti ballgroup options but it's too strong at base. A lesser version of plaguebreak that goes off on demand is good

Galeriano2

JerBearESO wrote: »

They should cut its base damage in half and just give it the bugged effect at its core. We need more anti ballgroup options but it's too strong at base. A lesser version of plaguebreak that goes off on demand is good

That set would become used in ball groups primarly.

ItsNotLiving

Enjoy 3 months of this, everyone say “Thank you ZoS”

Major_Toughness

Blowing up ball groups just like they do unopposed to the rest of cyrodiil? Don't see an issue tbh.

kenjiasai

JerBearESO wrote: »

They should cut its base damage in half and just give it the bugged effect at its core. We need more anti ballgroup options but it's too strong at base. A lesser version of plaguebreak that goes off on demand is good

Balls will be first to use it then just like vicious death, plaguebreak and various pull sets.

kenjiasai

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Blowing up ball groups just like they do unopposed to the rest of cyrodiil? Don't see an issue tbh.

Definitely not unopposed, while I can understand frustration they don't do anything special beyond being an organised group. Whaaat, organised group in mmo? Shocker.

Back on subject, the exploit is outrageous and needs to be fixed asap.