Detect pots shouldn't reveal players in crouch

Turtle_Bot

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

They don't work like Piercing Mark?

detect pots do the following, and they're great for what they do. You can even make single effect ones for dirt cheap, perfect for respectable builds that include a source of Major Sorc/Brut.

-Reveal all crouched or non cloak invisible players on different factions/teams to all players on your faction within 45 meters for a full 15 seconds

-Reveal cloak users to the user of the potion within 45 meters for a full 15 seconds

Even without the potions, crouch doesn't seem like it works as good as it used to. I've had a big uptick in the number of players charging me from across room while I'm crouching with the closed eye the past few patches... either that or those toxic target markers show through crouch.

Unless it was changed in the last patch, detect potions only reveal cloaked (invisible) enemies up to 20m range, not the full 45m that it reveals crouched players at.

DrNukenstein

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Unless it was changed in the last patch, detect potions only reveal cloaked (invisible) enemies up to 20m range, not the full 45m that it reveals crouched players at.

Here is the current description for detect pots



It does not mention a difference in range for stealth vs invisibility, where's it say that it's only 20m for cloak?

Edit, my bad for exaggerating... it's only a mere 43.5 meters.

Kartalin

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Stealthblades have it bad.

Detect pots
Conspicuous Poison
Camo Hunter / Mage Light
Structured Entropy
Haunting Curse
Ice Comet
Whirling Blades

too many to list here

Don’t forget Elemental susceptibility, which we refer to as the Ick, to the point that a couple of us in Bowz in the Hood run purge.

Avran_Sylt

Kartalin wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Stealthblades have it bad.

Detect pots
Conspicuous Poison
Camo Hunter / Mage Light
Structured Entropy
Haunting Curse
Ice Comet
Whirling Blades

too many to list here

Don’t forget Elemental susceptibility, which we refer to as the Ick, to the point that a couple of us in Bowz in the Hood run purge.

It can honestly almost kill me entirely if I don't have any heal pots. Typically need to use brawler before the ticks since my build has very little form of regen, ontop of poping me out of stealth periodically. (brawler or the tick pops me out)

Turtle_Bot

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Unless it was changed in the last patch, detect potions only reveal cloaked (invisible) enemies up to 20m range, not the full 45m that it reveals crouched players at.

Here is the current description for detect pots



It does not mention a difference in range for stealth vs invisibility, where's it say that it's only 20m for cloak?

Edit, my bad for exaggerating... it's only a mere 43.5 meters.

I've heard constant conflicting views about the range at which it detects cloak based stealth, and tbh, I don't think we ever got an official statement from ZOS confirming or denying this difference between cloak and crouch based stealth detection (unless I missed it).

From my own personal experience though, detect pots only reliably reveal cloak based stealth enemies up to around the 20-25m range, definitely not the 40-43m range that it reveals crouched based stealth enemies and if I am recalling correctly, they changed this back because of the backlash when they were originally changing the detection radius of these pots (they had it set to 100m for testing purposes in the PTS iirc).

Here's also a screenshot of the ESO-wiki for detect pots



Since the base range for crouch based stealth detection is roughly 20m and the base range for cloak based stealth detection seems to be 0m, it's quite easy to see how detect pots would only reveal cloak based stealth up to 20m.

This definitely needs confirming by ZOS one way or the other though, especially given how unreliable (wrong) or just completely obscure/vague many of the descriptions on the tooltips tend to be in this game (something that really needs a massive tidy up and has been needed since the start of the game).

Sabre

Detect pots absolutely should detect everyone in range of the detection. Wanting to sneak around and not be detected is simply not realistic or fair to other players. The existence of absolute invisibility in stealth or cloak is bad enough (vs a transparent camo effect more visible during movement than sitting still) - the countermeasures such as detection spells and detection pots are much needed.
One could argue that pvp stealth should only be possible if one is not moving vs. being able to sneak around.

Total invisibility in stealth is a nice pve feature and has been in most elder scrolls games since Arena - but invisibility in pvp is another matter. Maybe it should be done away with in pvp altogether lol except for maybe a potion.

Wanting to have stealth to gank people and demand that they not be able to protect themselves from such a nuisance as a glass cannon gank build is a ridiculous one-sided premise.

Avran_Sylt

Sabre wrote: »

Detect pots absolutely should detect everyone in range of the detection. Wanting to sneak around and not be detected is simply not realistic or fair to other players. The existence of absolute invisibility in stealth or cloak is bad enough (vs a transparent camo effect more visible during movement than sitting still) - the countermeasures such as detection spells and detection pots are much needed.
One could argue that pvp stealth should only be possible if one is not moving vs. being able to sneak around.

Total invisibility in stealth is a nice pve feature and has been in most elder scrolls games since Arena - but invisibility in pvp is another matter. Maybe it should be done away with in pvp altogether lol except for maybe a potion.

Wanting to have stealth to gank people and demand that they not be able to protect themselves from such a nuisance as a glass cannon gank build is a ridiculous one-sided premise.

Wearing enemy colors is entirely realistic.

"Fairness" is usually determined by effectiveness, and since most players likely don't use detect pots, it's unfair from a game directors point of view (unless they're corrupt) as for the most part the pots don't do much overall (general access is limited) while being exploitable as an offensive tool.

The camo effect does seem interesting for a stamina cloak ability, (but recall ESO has "magic")

And while detection spells and pots should exist, so too should countermeasures for said countermeasures. (but given the Elders Scrolls is a primarily PvE game they haven't really been broached).

Invisibility takes the role of the "sniper", or the "assassin". Removal of it just makes the game more stale in methods of approach.

And especially considering melee ganks, people can simply block if they're remaining stationary in a position of allure, the counter already exists, people just don't use it as they're used to never encountering anything that can kill them outright. (the only people I've ever seen in IC or Cyrodiil that block while holding a point are low CP players, so you know a bias has been established)

Trejgon

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Detect pots should not reveal players in crouch to other players that did not drink the detect pot.

Well that is issue with stealth mechanic in ESO being simplistic binary system - if anything detects you, everything is seeing you, and that extends to pvp as well. annoys me to no end in pve tho.

ProudMary

It's called a detect potion for a reason.

RedFireDisco

Detect should detect all.