Warden Problems to solve (From a PoV)

Skullstachio

I have taken notes, and also I tip my hat to Merpins and Nightingale as they have a good amount of foreknowledge regarding the warden.
So heres what I have been jumbling down below in my spare time.

Also if anyone has a way of improving upon the warden, feel free to mention them in the comments here for yourselves as I am not the only one who cares for the warden as a class.

Natures Gift II Suggestion:
When you overheal yourself or an ally, you gain 250 Magicka or 250 Stamina, whichever resource pool is lower.
You restore both 250 Magicka and Stamina when healing an injured ally* with a green balance ability.
This effect can occur once every 1.5 seconds.
(*this includes healing yourself with a green balance ability if any damage was taken.)

Comment: natures gift can now restore whichever resource pool is low with any overheal outside of the wardens toolkit, but to encourage the use of the wardens green balance class skills, the passive will now restore both magicka and stamina to the user whenever an injured ally is healed with a green balance sourced ability effect on top of the initial effect but with a slightly altered cooldown to match.

Maturation II: changed to Graht-Oaks Maturation.
You and up to 11 group members are granted Minor Toughness at all times, increasing Maximum Health by 10%.
While in combat: Overhealing yourself or group members with a green balance ability while they are affected by minor toughness grants 20 stacks of a non-refreshable warden exclusive buff "Graht-Oaks Maturity" for 20 seconds. This can only occur once every 20 seconds per target.
While Graht-Oaks Maturity remains, increases Damage Done with Class Abilities by 3% & Limits all incoming non-oblivion damage to 10% of Max Health, taking Direct Damage* Removes a Stack of Graht-Oaks Maturity and is lost upon all 20 stacks being removed.
(Note*: This includes direct damage caused by status effects like chilled, concussed, diseased, overcharged and sundered.)

Comment: the current availability of Minor Toughness as a buff is undoubtedly rare, only being available through the current iteration of Maturation and a morrowind set that is Warrior-poet prior to writing this, warrants a complete rework into a proper class exclusive, just as arcanists have a unique abyssal ink debuff on an ability, so too will wardens have a passive class exclusive buff.
Namely, Graht-oaks Maturity only increases class ability damage by a small amount for the user and affected players with Minor Toughness, while also providing a somewhat unique form of tanking through its ability to limit incoming damage.
Unlike the Dragonknights Magma Armor which lasts the whole duration, Graht-Oaks Maturity can last the full duration, but if you take direct damage a certain amount of times, you lose the buff entirely and have to wait for the cooldown to finish before gaining it again.
The thing with this incoming damage cap is it has a weakness (besides oblivion damage). in a 1v1 scenario, it would take a well built/optimised vestige to remove their opponents Graht-oak maturity buff well before the cooldown is finished, but in a 1vX situation, the weakness becomes more apparent as more sources of direct damage will contribute to the quick depletion/removal of graht-oaks maturity. Think of it as "Using an Axe to chop a Tree for lumber." chop a notch big enough in the right place and even the mightiest trees can fall. (Provided they don't fall on you and take the proverbial lumberjack with them.)

Dive & Morphs: needs a instant close range function in addition to its original function.

• Command a cliff racer to dive bomb an enemy, dealing [X] Magic Damage. If you are more than 7 meters away from the target, you set them Off Balance for 7 seconds.
• This ability changes to Spirit Claw against targets within 7 meters, instantly dealing [X] Magic Damage.

Cutting Dive:

• Command a cliff racer to dive bomb an enemy, dealing [X] Bleed Damage immediately and then causing them to bleed for [Y] Bleed Damage over 10 seconds. If you are more than 7 meters away from the target, you set them Off Balance for 7 seconds.
• This ability changes to Senche Render against targets within 7 meters, instantly dealing [X] Bleed Damage and then causing them to bleed for [Y] Bleed Damage over 10 seconds. The bleed from Senche Render Stacks with the Bleed from the cliff racer and refreshes both. Cannot be refreshed until both active bleeds from cutting dive expire on the target.

Screaming Cliff Racer:

• Command a cliff racer to dive bomb an enemy, dealing [X] Magic Damage. If you are more than 7 meters away from the target, you set them Off Balance for 7 seconds. After dealing damage you increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 100 for 10 seconds, which doubles in duration when damaging overcharged targets.
• This ability changes to Overcharged Spirit Claw against targets within 7 meters, instantly dealing [X] Magic Damage that applies guaranteed overcharged status effect. After dealing damage you increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 100 for 10 seconds which doubles to 200 when damaging overcharged targets.
• If both effects are active when damaging overcharged targets with this ability, remove both buffs to gain the "Striders Wrath" buff for 20 seconds. Striders Wrath prevents the buffs from screaming cliff racer and overcharged spirit claw from occurring while active, increases weapon and spell damage by 400 and can be refreshed once every 15 seconds when damaging overcharged targets.
  
  Subterranean assault: needs rework (this was already suggested in two seperate thread comments a while back.)
  Assassin Beetle Barrage:
  • Mark the target enemy, after a 3 second delay, an assassin beetle surfaces to attack the target and enemies within 7 meters of the target, Dealing bleed damage. After the beetle completes the attack, 2 more assassin beetles follow up to attack the target, occurring once every 2 seconds after the first attack for 4 seconds.
  • The first beetle applies guaranteed sundered status to the affected targets, the second beetle applies guaranteed haemorrhaging status and the third beetle deals 200% more damage to targets below <50% Health while also applying the effects of the first two assassin beetles.
  Notes:
  • the assassin beetle barrage retains the full damage of its predecessor subterranean assault ability, but is instead divided by 3 (the damage is spread out by the number of assassin beetles.
  • The assassin beetle barrage ability requires a target to activate.
  
  Falcons Swiftness & morphs: needs a significant change.
  • While slotted on either bar: Summons a Falcon that fights for you until killed or unsummoned, The Falcon deals [X] Physical damage to the closest enemy every 2 seconds. The Falcon also returns when killed after 15 seconds or can be cast at a cost to return early.
  • While active: The ability can be cast while active to gain major expedition for 6 seconds, increasing your movement speed by 30%. While in combat: the Falcon passively prevents one cleansable snare once every 10 seconds, snares removed this way grants 12 seconds of major expedition.
  
  Falcons Eye
  • While slotted on either bar: Summons a Falcon that fights for you until killed or unsummoned, The Falcon deals [X] Physical damage to the closest enemy every 2 seconds with a heightened chance to apply the sundered status effect. The Falcon also returns when killed after 15 seconds or can be cast at a cost to return early.
  • While active: The ability can be cast while active to gain major expedition and reveal stealthed and invisible enemies around you for 6 seconds, increasing your movement speed by 30% and preventing exposed enemies from returning to stealth or invisibility for 4 seconds. While in combat: the Falcon passively prevents one cleansable snare once every 10 seconds, snares removed this way grants 12 seconds of major expedition?
  • New: Has a higher chance to apply it's own independent sundered status effect, activating falcons eye while the falcon is active also reveals nearby stealthed enemies.
  • Note: the sundered effect applied by this morph is, much like the wild guardian, independent of the caster, thusly opening up the possibility of having boosted weapon and spell damage twice rather than just one.
  
  Frost Eagles Glare
  • While slotted on either bar: Summons a Frost Eagle imbued with frost magic that fights for you until killed or unsummoned, The Frost Eagle deals [X] Frost damage to the closest enemy every 2 seconds with a heightened chance to apply the chilled status effect*. The Frost Eagle also returns when killed after 10 seconds or can be cast at a cost to return early. (*Note: the frost eagle is affected by the glacial presence passive but might not be reflected in it.)
  • While active: The ability can be cast while active to gain major expedition for 6 seconds, increasing your movement speed by 30%. While in combat: the Frost Eagle prevents one cleansable snare once every 10 seconds, snares removed this way apply the same cleansable snare to the target that cast it and grants 12 seconds of major expedition. (*note: this particular effect is cancelled out if snares were applied by a warden with the exact same ability slotted on either bar.)
  • New: summons a frost eagle that deals frost damage instead of physical damage with a greater chance to apply chilled, passively returns quicker from death and snares passively prevented are applied to the enemy that cast it.
  
  Newest addition:
  Savage Beast II:
  Gain 657 Critical Chance (3%), for each Damage Over Time effect you have on an enemy, increase your Critical Chance by an additional 328.5 (1.5%) against them.
  When you cast an Animal Companions ability while you are in combat, you generate 4 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.
  

  Comment: on top of ulti generation, Wardens should get a slight bonus to critical chance (to note natures savagery in the right situations.) while also granting them slightly more critical chance against that target for each Damage Over Time effect the warden has put on the target, and yes, it does draw some inspiration from dro'zakars claws in terms of mechanics, but also, the intention behind this is also to allow the Savage Beast passive to have Some synergy with the advanced species passive which of course grants 4% critical hit damage for each animal companion ability slotted.

ESO_Nightingale

a lot of these reworks are fun fanciful ideas, but unfortunately not very realistic for the kind of things we'd actually see. ZOS usually goes for a less is more type policy with their changes.

here's my feedback for your ideas:

Nature's Gift:
i think that the conditions set out for this are still too strict and annoying to achieve. we simply need this passive to function for dps characters. i think the easiest thing to do would be just changing the restriction to healing yourself or an ally, not even with a green balance ability.

Maturation:
i see the idea behind this, however i think its too complicated. the issue is just that we can't reliably proc it on allies. the condition applying to the entire group upon healing something would fix the issue and allow dps characters to spread our own group buff easily like other classes can.

Dive:
i definitely think that adding an instant cast melee spammable portion to this ability would make it feel significantly better, however i don't like the gameplay idea of forcing you to try to interact with both the ranged and new melee portions of the spammable to get the most out of it. on paper it sounds cool, but as we all know in practice, trying to shuffle around to get off balance feels horrible and i think that would carry over to the rework. in addition, i think adding an auto overcharged proc and keeping magic damage on dive is not the best way to go when trying to standardise the damage types of warden. we're no-longer a magic damage focused class and overcharged fantasy should be preserved for another class, probably nightblade due to the fact that they have a lot of overcharged proc on debilitate.

Subterranean Assault:
yeah i agree, one of the scorch morphs needs a legit rework into another type of skill, or at least different enough to promote some newer playstyle or rotation style and deep fissure should go back to hitting once every 3 seconds. waiting 6 seconds between a hit feels legitimately awful.

Falcon's Swiftness:
i actually think that this skill is okay as it is at base and with bird of prey. though the minor berserk should persist through barswap. my issue is with deceptive predator. its kind of middling. i'd honestly argue that they should give it an aoe conal stun instead of a pet so we can actually get our instant stun back, but the pet idea is interesting. i also don't think that physical damage is fitting of a bird that would rip and tear with its beak and talons. Bleed and Frost damage are the 2 types best associated with warden, and i feel that we should stick with those and expand upon them. stealth reveal is very interesting though. i do like it as a legit bonus, heck, you could actually throw that on base deceptive predator and i think people would use the morph in pvp.

ItsNotLiving

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

a lot of these reworks are fun fanciful ideas, but unfortunately not very realistic for the kind of things we'd actually see. ZOS usually goes for a less is more type policy with their changes.

here's my feedback for your ideas:

Nature's Gift:
i think that the conditions set out for this are still too strict and annoying to achieve. we simply need this passive to function for dps characters. i think the easiest thing to do would be just changing the restriction to healing yourself or an ally, not even with a green balance ability.

Maturation:
i see the idea behind this, however i think its too complicated. the issue is just that we can't reliably proc it on allies. the condition applying to the entire group upon healing something would fix the issue and allow dps characters to spread our own group buff easily like other classes can.

Dive:
i definitely think that adding an instant cast melee spammable portion to this ability would make it feel significantly better, however i don't like the gameplay idea of forcing you to try to interact with both the ranged and new melee portions of the spammable to get the most out of it. on paper it sounds cool, but as we all know in practice, trying to shuffle around to get off balance feels horrible and i think that would carry over to the rework. in addition, i think adding an auto overcharged proc and keeping magic damage on dive is not the best way to go when trying to standardise the damage types of warden. we're no-longer a magic damage focused class and overcharged fantasy should be preserved for another class, probably nightblade due to the fact that they have a lot of overcharged proc on debilitate.

Subterranean Assault:
yeah i agree, one of the scorch morphs needs a legit rework into another type of skill, or at least different enough to promote some newer playstyle or rotation style and deep fissure should go back to hitting once every 3 seconds. waiting 6 seconds between a hit feels legitimately awful.

Falcon's Swiftness:
i actually think that this skill is okay as it is at base and with bird of prey. though the minor berserk should persist through barswap. my issue is with deceptive predator. its kind of middling. i'd honestly argue that they should give it an aoe conal stun instead of a pet so we can actually get our instant stun back, but the pet idea is interesting. i also don't think that physical damage is fitting of a bird that would rip and tear with its beak and talons. Bleed and Frost damage are the 2 types best associated with warden, and i feel that we should stick with those and expand upon them. stealth reveal is very interesting though. i do like it as a legit bonus, heck, you could actually throw that on base deceptive predator and i think people would use the morph in pvp.

I actually support giving Wardens a stealth bonus seeing as there’s two main RPG stealth users (Rogue archetype and Ranger archetype) and warden is what we have for a ranger it’s too bad none of the skills really go with fully ranged gameplay.

ESO_Nightingale

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

a lot of these reworks are fun fanciful ideas, but unfortunately not very realistic for the kind of things we'd actually see. ZOS usually goes for a less is more type policy with their changes.

here's my feedback for your ideas:

Nature's Gift:
i think that the conditions set out for this are still too strict and annoying to achieve. we simply need this passive to function for dps characters. i think the easiest thing to do would be just changing the restriction to healing yourself or an ally, not even with a green balance ability.

Maturation:
i see the idea behind this, however i think its too complicated. the issue is just that we can't reliably proc it on allies. the condition applying to the entire group upon healing something would fix the issue and allow dps characters to spread our own group buff easily like other classes can.

Dive:
i definitely think that adding an instant cast melee spammable portion to this ability would make it feel significantly better, however i don't like the gameplay idea of forcing you to try to interact with both the ranged and new melee portions of the spammable to get the most out of it. on paper it sounds cool, but as we all know in practice, trying to shuffle around to get off balance feels horrible and i think that would carry over to the rework. in addition, i think adding an auto overcharged proc and keeping magic damage on dive is not the best way to go when trying to standardise the damage types of warden. we're no-longer a magic damage focused class and overcharged fantasy should be preserved for another class, probably nightblade due to the fact that they have a lot of overcharged proc on debilitate.

Subterranean Assault:
yeah i agree, one of the scorch morphs needs a legit rework into another type of skill, or at least different enough to promote some newer playstyle or rotation style and deep fissure should go back to hitting once every 3 seconds. waiting 6 seconds between a hit feels legitimately awful.

Falcon's Swiftness:
i actually think that this skill is okay as it is at base and with bird of prey. though the minor berserk should persist through barswap. my issue is with deceptive predator. its kind of middling. i'd honestly argue that they should give it an aoe conal stun instead of a pet so we can actually get our instant stun back, but the pet idea is interesting. i also don't think that physical damage is fitting of a bird that would rip and tear with its beak and talons. Bleed and Frost damage are the 2 types best associated with warden, and i feel that we should stick with those and expand upon them. stealth reveal is very interesting though. i do like it as a legit bonus, heck, you could actually throw that on base deceptive predator and i think people would use the morph in pvp.

I actually support giving Wardens a stealth bonus seeing as there’s two main RPG stealth users (Rogue archetype and Ranger archetype) and warden is what we have for a ranger it’s too bad none of the skills really go with fully ranged gameplay.

The original idea was a stealth reveal, not actual stealth. I can't imagine pvp players would agree with more stealth classes existing

moderatelyfatman

Nah, Warden needs a nerf.

ItsNotLiving

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

a lot of these reworks are fun fanciful ideas, but unfortunately not very realistic for the kind of things we'd actually see. ZOS usually goes for a less is more type policy with their changes.

here's my feedback for your ideas:

Nature's Gift:
i think that the conditions set out for this are still too strict and annoying to achieve. we simply need this passive to function for dps characters. i think the easiest thing to do would be just changing the restriction to healing yourself or an ally, not even with a green balance ability.

Maturation:
i see the idea behind this, however i think its too complicated. the issue is just that we can't reliably proc it on allies. the condition applying to the entire group upon healing something would fix the issue and allow dps characters to spread our own group buff easily like other classes can.

Dive:
i definitely think that adding an instant cast melee spammable portion to this ability would make it feel significantly better, however i don't like the gameplay idea of forcing you to try to interact with both the ranged and new melee portions of the spammable to get the most out of it. on paper it sounds cool, but as we all know in practice, trying to shuffle around to get off balance feels horrible and i think that would carry over to the rework. in addition, i think adding an auto overcharged proc and keeping magic damage on dive is not the best way to go when trying to standardise the damage types of warden. we're no-longer a magic damage focused class and overcharged fantasy should be preserved for another class, probably nightblade due to the fact that they have a lot of overcharged proc on debilitate.

Subterranean Assault:
yeah i agree, one of the scorch morphs needs a legit rework into another type of skill, or at least different enough to promote some newer playstyle or rotation style and deep fissure should go back to hitting once every 3 seconds. waiting 6 seconds between a hit feels legitimately awful.

Falcon's Swiftness:
i actually think that this skill is okay as it is at base and with bird of prey. though the minor berserk should persist through barswap. my issue is with deceptive predator. its kind of middling. i'd honestly argue that they should give it an aoe conal stun instead of a pet so we can actually get our instant stun back, but the pet idea is interesting. i also don't think that physical damage is fitting of a bird that would rip and tear with its beak and talons. Bleed and Frost damage are the 2 types best associated with warden, and i feel that we should stick with those and expand upon them. stealth reveal is very interesting though. i do like it as a legit bonus, heck, you could actually throw that on base deceptive predator and i think people would use the morph in pvp.

I actually support giving Wardens a stealth bonus seeing as there’s two main RPG stealth users (Rogue archetype and Ranger archetype) and warden is what we have for a ranger it’s too bad none of the skills really go with fully ranged gameplay.

The original idea was a stealth reveal, not actual stealth. I can't imagine pvp players would agree with more stealth classes existing

Oops I see now haha, I don’t think it should have invis like nightblade but maybe it can put you in hard stealth immediately or something.

Minstrel9806

I really like most of the proposed changes.
I agree with Nightingale regarding the Dive changes tho, it definitely needs a melee morph but not both.
I'd still get rid of the Cliff Racer completely tho, in my opinion it's one of the ugliest looking skills in the game, i would replace the magicka morph with an Ice Spike or something, like that one spell in Skyrim.

dmnqwk

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

Obviously it's very strange Shalks are the only poison source, and yes I know there would be an argument to change this to bleed, but this is more that we can quite happily apply both chill and haemorrage easily and it'd be nice if haemorrage got the same damage buff for us so we weren't forced to ensure we maximise chill in every build.

moderatelyfatman

dmnqwk wrote: »

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

Obviously it's very strange Shalks are the only poison source, and yes I know there would be an argument to change this to bleed, but this is more that we can quite happily apply both chill and haemorrage easily and it'd be nice if haemorrage got the same damage buff for us so we weren't forced to ensure we maximise chill in every build.

I did a parse on my stamden:
I have 4 skills that cause bleed damage (Carve, Fletcher Infection, Barb Trap and The Bear) for 5.1% of my total damage from Hemorrhaging.
I have 2 skills that cause ice damage (Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast) for 6.2% of my total damage from Chill.
I have no weapon glyphs with frost, don't use an ice staff.

How is this balanced?

ESO_Nightingale

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

Obviously it's very strange Shalks are the only poison source, and yes I know there would be an argument to change this to bleed, but this is more that we can quite happily apply both chill and haemorrage easily and it'd be nice if haemorrage got the same damage buff for us so we weren't forced to ensure we maximise chill in every build.

I did a parse on my stamden:
I have 4 skills that cause bleed damage (Carve, Fletcher Infection, Barb Trap and The Bear) for 5.1% of my total damage from Hemorrhaging.
I have 2 skills that cause ice damage (Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast) for 6.2% of my total damage from Chill.
I have no weapon glyphs with frost, don't use an ice staff.

How is this balanced?

Because your passives buff chilled damage and proc rates on your 2 winter's embrace abilities that already have innately high chilled proc rate.

Skullstachio

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

Obviously it's very strange Shalks are the only poison source, and yes I know there would be an argument to change this to bleed, but this is more that we can quite happily apply both chill and haemorrage easily and it'd be nice if haemorrage got the same damage buff for us so we weren't forced to ensure we maximise chill in every build.

I did a parse on my stamden:
I have 4 skills that cause bleed damage (Carve, Fletcher Infection, Barb Trap and The Bear) for 5.1% of my total damage from Hemorrhaging.
I have 2 skills that cause ice damage (Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast) for 6.2% of my total damage from Chill.
I have no weapon glyphs with frost, don't use an ice staff.

How is this balanced?

If you had cutting dive on there as a type of front bar spammable like I do, it would count as five bleed attack skills.

p.s. The Wild Guardians Hemorrhaging Status is independent of the wardens Hemorrhaging status so while cutting dive, growing swarm, carve & barbed trap all have relatively small chances (greater with CP's and charged weapons) of proccing the same hemorrhaging status effect sourced from the warden, the hemorrhaging status effect from the bear is a different source and counts as an extra bleed, allowing wardens to be the only class to double dip on hemorrhaging status effects with their toolkit in solo play and contribute to slightly greater DPS in group content.

Hence in my case on this particular topic, when using the 5 piece dro'zakars claws set, the bleed DoT's from carve, barbed trap, growing swarm and cutting dive and the hemorrhaging status caused by them brings the weapon/spell damage to 515 (5 stacks against the affected target), with the hemorrhaging status effect from the wild guardian making it 6 (or 618 weapon/spell damage.)

dmnqwk wrote: »

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

You may have just given me an idea to cook matey.(it will be added to the original post later or less.)

Skullstachio

Just in case it wasn't seen before in the original post which also serves as a followup to the aforementioned "idea to cook." And while it may not be an exclusive bonus that caters to the hemorrhaging status effect, it does somewhat play into the overall toolkit of the warden.

And yes, I made notes on the flat to % values of critical chance before coming up with this, and while I do have a few small doubts about the addition to savage beast, they are not necessary as I know there is always that one player who is always gonna find ways to break the game and make it worse for everyone else trying to just have fun with a game that alot of players genuinely care about.

Newest addition:
Savage Beast II:
Gain 657 Critical Chance (3%), for each Damage Over Time effect you have on an enemy, increase your Critical Chance by an additional 328.5 (1.5%) against them.
When you cast an Animal Companions ability while you are in combat, you generate 4 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Comment: on top of ulti generation, Wardens should get a slight bonus to critical chance (to note natures savagery in the right situations.) while also granting them slightly more critical chance against that target for each Damage Over Time effect the warden has put on the target, and yes, it does draw some inspiration from dro'zakars claws in terms of mechanics, but also, the intention behind this is also to allow the Savage Beast passive to have Some synergy with the advanced species passive which of course grants 4% critical hit damage for each animal companion ability slotted.

ESO_Nightingale

Skullstachio wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

Obviously it's very strange Shalks are the only poison source, and yes I know there would be an argument to change this to bleed, but this is more that we can quite happily apply both chill and haemorrage easily and it'd be nice if haemorrage got the same damage buff for us so we weren't forced to ensure we maximise chill in every build.

I did a parse on my stamden:
I have 4 skills that cause bleed damage (Carve, Fletcher Infection, Barb Trap and The Bear) for 5.1% of my total damage from Hemorrhaging.
I have 2 skills that cause ice damage (Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast) for 6.2% of my total damage from Chill.
I have no weapon glyphs with frost, don't use an ice staff.

How is this balanced?

If you had cutting dive on there as a type of front bar spammable like I do, it would count as five bleed attack skills.

p.s. The Wild Guardians Hemorrhaging Status is independent of the wardens Hemorrhaging status so while cutting dive, growing swarm, carve & barbed trap all have relatively small chances (greater with CP's and charged weapons) of proccing the same hemorrhaging status effect sourced from the warden, the hemorrhaging status effect from the bear is a different source and counts as an extra bleed, allowing wardens to be the only class to double dip on hemorrhaging status effects with their toolkit in solo play and contribute to slightly greater DPS in group content.

Hence in my case on this particular topic, when using the 5 piece dro'zakars claws set, the bleed DoT's from carve, barbed trap, growing swarm and cutting dive and the hemorrhaging status caused by them brings the weapon/spell damage to 515 (5 stacks against the affected target), with the hemorrhaging status effect from the wild guardian making it 6 (or 618 weapon/spell damage.)

dmnqwk wrote: »

I would like to see the chill damage bonus also apply to Haemorrage- it could be added to Savage Beast as:
Your damage with Haemmorage is increased by X (X being the same as Chill, just no chance to apply buff).

You may have just given me an idea to cook matey.(it will be added to the original post later or less.)

honestly i think the problem is bleed sources, not its damage, at max stacks its better than burning which has always historically been strong. there are few guarenteed chances and no enchantment that deals bleed dmg. chilled does have these extra sources and an innate increase.

Skullstachio

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

honestly i think the problem is bleed sources, not its damage, at max stacks its better than burning which has always historically been strong. there are few guarenteed chances and no enchantment that deals bleed dmg. chilled does have these extra sources and an innate increase.

Just to follow up here on the bleed damage talk a little (note: I have been doing some testing on target dummies post console U41)

What I know for certain, especially given a slightly older topic about the cuddly grizzly in the room, since a fair bit of the bears damage is tied to its own independent hemorrhaging status effect (thank cold wind it is still there.) I reckon its direct damage is still the same, but now at base without any building into it, unless a vestige is specifically built for status chance (or using serpents disdain) the bleed from wild guardian could arbitrarily be on the low end even while it has a heightened chance to apply it (what is the wild guardians enhanced % chance of bleed application anyway as I never did quite figure it out.)

And I still wholeheartedly agree that the absorb health weapon enchantment should be changed to bleed as there has been a few topics/comments asking for it in the past.

ESO_Nightingale

Skullstachio wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

honestly i think the problem is bleed sources, not its damage, at max stacks its better than burning which has always historically been strong. there are few guarenteed chances and no enchantment that deals bleed dmg. chilled does have these extra sources and an innate increase.

Just to follow up here on the bleed damage talk a little (note: I have been doing some testing on target dummies post console U41)

What I know for certain, especially given a slightly older topic about the cuddly grizzly in the room, since a fair bit of the bears damage is tied to its own independent hemorrhaging status effect (thank cold wind it is still there.) I reckon its direct damage is still the same, but now at base without any building into it, unless a vestige is specifically built for status chance (or using serpents disdain) the bleed from wild guardian could arbitrarily be on the low end even while it has a heightened chance to apply it (what is the wild guardians enhanced % chance of bleed application anyway as I never did quite figure it out.)

And I still wholeheartedly agree that the absorb health weapon enchantment should be changed to bleed as there has been a few topics/comments asking for it in the past.

If we include a passive that makes hemo damage higher than it already is, all that does is brick any reason to make a frost dps oriented build with high chilled proc rate since hemo would just be better. It's already strong, but lacks the application rates that chilled does.