So, time to nerf Arcanist or not?

xylena_lazarow · March 2

Bushido2513 wrote: »

the copy paste build with a player that knows how to take advantage of it to at least some degree up to the range of player that flat out abuses the more op parts of the class

time to copy paste that sweet 5pc [Strawman Amulet] setup

Wait a couple weeks and people will forget Arcs exist. Your turn, Sorcs!

CameraBeardThePirate · March 2

moo_2021 wrote: »

Stamina or hybrid arcanists who appear to use Stinging Slashes and Wrath of Elements for pressure, Rune and Flail for CC, and spam the huge 1s shield to stay alive.

Lack of reliable offensive abilities is easily solved by proc sets, while they have best defense, sustain and CC toolkit.

They definitely don't have the best CC toolkit. Flail is a strong immobilize, but their stun is extremely easy to block entirely - you should almost never be getting hit by it with just a tiny bit of practice in recognizing the animation.

RetPing · March 2

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Stamina or hybrid arcanists who appear to use Stinging Slashes and Wrath of Elements for pressure, Rune and Flail for CC, and spam the huge 1s shield to stay alive.

Lack of reliable offensive abilities is easily solved by proc sets, while they have best defense, sustain and CC toolkit.

They definitely don't have the best CC toolkit. Flail is a strong immobilize, but their stun is extremely easy to block entirely - you should almost never be getting hit by it with just a tiny bit of practice in recognizing the animation.

Are you seriuos?
That skill that make you lose control of your char is totally broken.
Arcanist is a joke.

Starlight_Knight · March 2

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Stamina or hybrid arcanists who appear to use Stinging Slashes and Wrath of Elements for pressure, Rune and Flail for CC, and spam the huge 1s shield to stay alive.

Lack of reliable offensive abilities is easily solved by proc sets, while they have best defense, sustain and CC toolkit.

They definitely don't have the best CC toolkit. Flail is a strong immobilize, but their stun is extremely easy to block entirely - you should almost never be getting hit by it with just a tiny bit of practice in recognizing the animation.

With the terrible performance in ESO as it is, this skill is atrocious , they took the CC off the wardens shalks because it was rightly op, utility skills shouldnt be damage skills, the class has is broken and its CC is very broken sending you wobbling all over the place. and if you're lucky you can break it in time to get CC'd again by it,

Bushido2513 · March 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

the copy paste build with a player that knows how to take advantage of it to at least some degree up to the range of player that flat out abuses the more op parts of the class

time to copy paste that sweet 5pc [Strawman Amulet] setup

Wait a couple weeks and people will forget Arcs exist. Your turn, Sorcs!

Only because they and mdw are getting a nerf as well. Sorc thing won't change much after a short flavor of the month cycle

cuddles_with_wroble · March 4

Why does the shield heal as much as polar wind but also it’s a 12k shield.

ZOS balance at its finest… zero thought, zero actual balancing. Classic

Syiccal · March 4

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Why does the shield heal as much as polar wind but also it’s a 12k shield.

ZOS balance at its finest… zero thought, zero actual balancing. Classic

Only if they have 3 crux available

CameraBeardThePirate · March 4

Syiccal wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Why does the shield heal as much as polar wind but also it’s a 12k shield.

ZOS balance at its finest… zero thought, zero actual balancing. Classic

Only if they have 3 crux available

It also straight up doesn't heal for as much as polar. Impervious has a base tooltip of 4800 at 3x crux, Polar heals 2 targets, has a base tooltip of 4950 without having to play a crux mini game, AND ALSO has a strong HoT attached. As far as the healing goes, Impervious isn't even close to Polar.

The shield is slightly overtuned, but the heal portion of impervious is NOT the problem.

Araneae6537 · March 4

DK and NB are top tier in PVP, and the latter is relatively challenging to play well. Arcanists have some strong abilities, but they are easy to see and avoid, so good for defending points or taking advantage of snared enemies, but not itself likely to get a high kill count. IMHO, sorc, templar, and warden could use some adjustment as I think each was over-nerfed. No ability really hits hard and warden lacks an execute while templar only has an execute. Sorc has many abilities that look interesting and should be more useful in both PVE and PVP. Warden and necro can be difficult to kill, but that’s about it.

So all-in-all, I think that DK, NB, and Arcanist are good PVP-wise, not good at everything but with clear strengths while it is the other classes that need some adjustment to have more options and be more fun to play. I do like that frost has been made more viable damage-wise for warden, although it might need a bit more to be competitive.

cuddles_with_wroble · March 5

That entire class is designed around anti fun gameplay, stack dots -> spam tentacle -> shield -> repeat. And you can live almost indefinitely under pressure if your built well and just rotate your shield and crux generators. Give it any other way to do damage and nerf the shield just slightly so it’s no so soul draining to fight.

Also the fact that impervious is only a slightly worse heal than polar and trades the hot for an insane shield is arguably not that much worse esp in solo play where the shield blocking damage to get your go bar up is very impactful, often times more so than the hit of polar which can be easily out dpsed if you have lots of people on you.

Camera is right, it’s not just the heal it’s the heal + the massive shield that makes it feel so strong.

Rhaegar75 · March 6

Arcanist is super tanky but if they tuned down their arsenal of proc sets you’d be left with a very sturdy class that lacks in the damage department

Bushido2513 · March 6

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Arcanist is super tanky but if they tuned down their arsenal of proc sets you’d be left with a very sturdy class that lacks in the damage department

Will be interesting to see how much this patch does or doesn't change things. Tired of Procanist.

Syiccal · March 6

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Arcanist is super tanky but if they tuned down their arsenal of proc sets you’d be left with a very sturdy class that lacks in the damage department

Will be interesting to see how much this patch does or doesn't change things. Tired of Procanist.

I honestly don't see it changing all that much, the MDW nerd isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, and procs being used. The procanist will still apply a lot of pressure and have the exact same defensive strengths.

BetterAtChess · March 6

Syiccal wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Arcanist is super tanky but if they tuned down their arsenal of proc sets you’d be left with a very sturdy class that lacks in the damage department

Will be interesting to see how much this patch does or doesn't change things. Tired of Procanist.

I honestly don't see it changing all that much, the MDW nerd isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, and procs being used. The procanist will still apply a lot of pressure and have the exact same defensive strengths.

Maarselok is finally getting fixed too according to the PTS patch notes (it's currently bugged and can stack multiple times).

Arcanist will still be very strong next patch IMO - maybe it will get tuned down a little when spellcrafting arrives.

Syiccal · March 6

Even with MDW and maarselock adjustments The status is effect changes will impact the arcanist quite a lot as they will be able to do more damage via their status pasivs

CountonMe · March 7

I just started PvP 3 days ago and already hate the Arcanist. they are so cringe.

moo_2021 · March 8

BetterAtChess wrote: »

Maarselok is finally getting fixed too according to the PTS patch notes (it's currently bugged and can stack multiple times).

Arcanist will still be very strong next patch IMO - maybe it will get tuned down a little when spellcrafting arrives.

Is the bug rather common? I saw every inconsistent Maarselok damage on me in combat metrics, alternate from 1/3 the damage to the usual ignorable pressure.

Turning down that and Twin Slash is good enough.

LittlePinkDot · March 9

Syiccal wrote: »

Also an arc doesn't really have any decent DMG or pressure outside of procs. The beam is avoidable and your not killing anyone with flail on it's own.

Shouldn't be using beam in PVP anyway.

LittlePinkDot · March 9

Syiccal wrote: »

Without procs it's near on impossible to kill anything with an arcanist that's not a potatoe. With master dw being nerfed I think arcs will have a harder time again. The defense on the hand is top tier.

Masters DW needed to be nerfed. No class should be able to do that kind of damage while putting everything into health. I'm glad the didn't nerf Impervious runeward. It works great on my PvE tank arcanist. And it works good enough on my PvP poison build arcanist without being overpowered since she can't just invest everything into health anyway.
ZoS made a smart decision nerfing Masters DW.

LittlePinkDot · March 9

Syiccal wrote: »

Janni wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Also an arc doesn't really have any decent DMG or pressure outside of procs. The beam is avoidable and your not killing anyone with flail on it's own.

Wait till next patch

Whys that

Because beam damage is getting nerfed.
But I'm sure that was a PvE decision.

Doesn't affect my arcanist tank or PvP arcanist since neither use beam.

topsecretagentx · May 19

They need a nerf, they are better than any class. Tanking they have so many options, but I think DK can still compete, maybe some others can too I don't know. DPS on the other hand, well, Arcanist has basically an ultimate that it uses as a regular skill, the green beam. All they have to do is point it. They do not need to worry about position like melee DPS, do not have to rely on a sophisticated weave of DoTs or resetting ground AoEs when boss changes position. They just turn on the firehose and every other class falls behind. An Arcanist in basic crafted or overland gear can do more DPS than any other class in full trial gear. On the dummy, no. In real gameplay, yes. That is because that green beam hits everything in it's path and there are minimal conditions to meet to get it to full power. Takes maybe a second or two.

Those Arcanists are all over BGs, looks like Green Beam "Spray n' Pray."

Mesite · May 19

No nerf yet please, I'm still enjoying being powerful while it lasts. Usually I'm bottom of any league.

xylena_lazarow · May 19

Mesite wrote: »

No nerf yet please, I'm still enjoying being powerful while it lasts. Usually I'm bottom of any league.

Obsolete thread, mods should probably close it. Arc is now badly outclassed in most PvP scenarios by Sorc.

topsecretagentx · May 19

Sorcs are literally unbelievable in PVP right now. Who got the 25 kills in this BG? oh yeah, the Sorc:) It's pretty impressive.

Araneae6537 · May 19

No, Arcanist is far from best class in PvP. Classes that are lacking need to be brought up or in some cases, simply de-nerfed (undo U35 and give templars back their spear of light!)

LittlePinkDot · May 19

topsecretagentx wrote: »

They need a nerf, they are better than any class. Tanking they have so many options, but I think DK can still compete, maybe some others can too I don't know. DPS on the other hand, well, Arcanist has basically an ultimate that it uses as a regular skill, the green beam. All they have to do is point it. They do not need to worry about position like melee DPS, do not have to rely on a sophisticated weave of DoTs or resetting ground AoEs when boss changes position. They just turn on the firehose and every other class falls behind. An Arcanist in basic crafted or overland gear can do more DPS than any other class in full trial gear. On the dummy, no. In real gameplay, yes. That is because that green beam hits everything in it's path and there are minimal conditions to meet to get it to full power. Takes maybe a second or two.

Those Arcanists are all over BGs, looks like Green Beam "Spray n' Pray."

I don't know what you're talking about. They can hardly hit anybody with beam. It's so easy to just move out of the way and interrupt them.

I would never use that skill in PvP.

Urzigurumash · May 19

topsecretagentx wrote: »

Sorcs are literally unbelievable in PVP right now. Who got the 25 kills in this BG? oh yeah, the Sorc:) It's pretty impressive.

25 bad players tho remember, not a Sorc main but they are always right

topsecretagentx · May 19

Sorry, bud. I thought this was general discussion about an arcanist nerf, the thread title does not specify. They have, generally, complete and total hegemony in PVE. So much that nearly all 4-man content I run could be called "A Tale of Three Arcanists." By the time I hit the fourth skill in my rotation, everything is usually melted. It is like playing ESO without playing ESO at all, it is so fun!

And I guess you wouldn't use that skill in PVP, but plenty of them do. Also, that was what the phrase "Pray and Spray" in BG was meant to convey. Looks silly, mostly ineffective.

katorga · May 28

topsecretagentx wrote: »

Sorcs are literally unbelievable in PVP right now. Who got the 25 kills in this BG? oh yeah, the Sorc:) It's pretty impressive.

Sorc was always good for kill stealing in BGs, even when the class was F-tier and played by a sub-par player. Just spam mages wrath.

Now that ZoS brought their healing in line with the other classes, Sorc is pretty well balanced with the other S/A tier classes.

xylena_lazarow · May 28

katorga wrote: »

Now that ZoS brought their healing in line with the other classes, Sorc is pretty well balanced with

with Polar Wind on 55k Warden healers