PvP, broken sets, and the people crutching on them.

xylena_lazarow · February 12

RetPing wrote: »

I really don't understand what kind of fun or fulfillment you can have while crutching on those things.

Have you tried meta builds? They're fun, I promise. I used to do that too, I'd wear weaker sets out of misplaced pride, and it held me back both in terms of performance and in terms of having fun. Way more fun once I embraced the meta.

SmellyUnlimited · February 13

RetPing wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Can't blame the people running the OP sets. Blame ZOS for creating them.

I don't agree with you. I blame also people for cheesing their way, what fun there is in that?

I really don't understand what kind of fun or fulfillment you can have while crutching on those things.
Yeah, maybe one or two times can be fun but doing that thing over and over? Seems a really sad gameplay to me.

When you’re fighting against cheese, how can you not want to cheese yourself when it’s the only way to be competitive? Dude decked out in heavy Way of Fire, Masters DW, Vate staff, against someone not wearing a proc set will be a very one sided engagement (skill level being equal). You just get tired of dying constantly I think is what it amounts to.

xylena_lazarow · February 13

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Dude decked out in heavy Way of Fire, Masters DW, Vate staff, against someone not wearing a proc set will be a very one sided engagement (skill level being equal).

This is categorically false, there are particularly strong stat builds for NB, DK, and Sorc right now.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 17

RetPing wrote: »

I don't agree with you. I blame also people for cheesing their way, what fun there is in that?

I really don't understand what kind of fun or fulfillment you can have while crutching on those things.
Yeah, maybe one or two times can be fun but doing that thing over and over? Seems a really sad gameplay to me.

Winning is fun. Not getting buried in two seconds flat is fulfilling. Pretty much as simple as that.

WaywardArgonian · February 17

The meta is the meta for a reason. It's the most effective build available. Going off-meta means you either found something brilliant (which would then technically qualify it as the actual meta), or you accept that you'll have an inherent disadvantage in most encounters. You are free to do so, but complaining about players running meta set-ups is not a battle you are going to win.

I also remember when the campaign-wide no-proc test was announced and people were claiming how all those subpar players crutching on proc sets would finally get exposed. Instead, the same players kept dominating because they were best able to adapt to the new circumstances and actually good at the game. So be careful to assume that people crutch on broken sets/classes; rather, they are probably increasing the advantage they already had over you and are now even harder to get rid of. There are a few exceptions to this rule like Oakensoul 1.0, which allowed mediocre players to beat good players not running said mythic, but generally the players who know how to (ab)use broken sets tend to belong to the better segment of the playerbase.

Durham · February 18

Simple fix that ZoS does not want to address simple rule changes from PVE to PVP...

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StaticWave · February 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RetPing wrote: »

I really don't understand what kind of fun or fulfillment you can have while crutching on those things.

Have you tried meta builds? They're fun, I promise. I used to do that too, I'd wear weaker sets out of misplaced pride, and it held me back both in terms of performance and in terms of having fun. Way more fun once I embraced the meta.

I used to be like that, holding myself back out of pride, then I said screw it and started using meta proc sets. Game felt pretty easy because I'm doing so much dmg for little investment. Theory crafting was pretty easy because the sets take care of my damage/healing.

Then eventually it got stale and I went back to stat builds. It's a downgrade, but the game felt more of a challenge and that's fine by me lol.

xylena_lazarow · February 23

StaticWave wrote: »

Then eventually it got stale and I went back to stat builds. It's a downgrade, but the game felt more of a challenge and that's fine by me lol.

Stat Sorc is strong though, if you really want to flip the script, run the MDW/Vatesh build on a Nightblade!

IMO the worst meta ever was the "Warden tanks in 3 stat damage sets" one, procs barely existed during these years. Diversity of builds and playstyles was terrible, players were pretty much stuck in a binary state of either "unkillable" or "instantly dead" until the Daedric prince Malacath bestowed us his ring, and damage returned to the game...

xDeusEJRx · February 24

StaticWave wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RetPing wrote: »

I really don't understand what kind of fun or fulfillment you can have while crutching on those things.

Have you tried meta builds? They're fun, I promise. I used to do that too, I'd wear weaker sets out of misplaced pride, and it held me back both in terms of performance and in terms of having fun. Way more fun once I embraced the meta.

I used to be like that, holding myself back out of pride, then I said screw it and started using meta proc sets. Game felt pretty easy because I'm doing so much dmg for little investment. Theory crafting was pretty easy because the sets take care of my damage/healing.

Then eventually it got stale and I went back to stat builds. It's a downgrade, but the game felt more of a challenge and that's fine by me lol.

I'm in the same park, that's why I keep both setups in my back pocket. My normal stat builds and then the cheesy meta sets for whenever it feels like the PvP is extra cheesy that day.

StaticWave · February 25

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RetPing wrote: »

I really don't understand what kind of fun or fulfillment you can have while crutching on those things.

Have you tried meta builds? They're fun, I promise. I used to do that too, I'd wear weaker sets out of misplaced pride, and it held me back both in terms of performance and in terms of having fun. Way more fun once I embraced the meta.

I used to be like that, holding myself back out of pride, then I said screw it and started using meta proc sets. Game felt pretty easy because I'm doing so much dmg for little investment. Theory crafting was pretty easy because the sets take care of my damage/healing.

Then eventually it got stale and I went back to stat builds. It's a downgrade, but the game felt more of a challenge and that's fine by me lol.

I'm in the same park, that's why I keep both setups in my back pocket. My normal stat builds and then the cheesy meta sets for whenever it feels like the PvP is extra cheesy that day.

Same. I have all the meta proc sets in my back lol. I'll put them on when the fight is too cheesy, like a Jerall DK with mDW/Vate lol.

StaticWave · February 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Then eventually it got stale and I went back to stat builds. It's a downgrade, but the game felt more of a challenge and that's fine by me lol.

Stat Sorc is strong though, if you really want to flip the script, run the MDW/Vatesh build on a Nightblade!

IMO the worst meta ever was the "Warden tanks in 3 stat damage sets" one, procs barely existed during these years. Diversity of builds and playstyles was terrible, players were pretty much stuck in a binary state of either "unkillable" or "instantly dead" until the Daedric prince Malacath bestowed us his ring, and damage returned to the game...

Stat sorc is definitely strong, but the class has a high learning curve in terms of survivability. It's what puts people off the class most imo. They see a good sorc do so well so they try the class and realize the healing/survivability is pretty bad.

Warden was definitely an outlier but I think the meta was fine, at least from my perspective.

Tberg725 · February 26

I took A LONGGG break from eso.. recently came back because of friends wanting to roll in the pvp event and played in Ravenwatch it was the most fun I’ve had playing pvp in YEARS no proc cheese

olsborg · February 26

Tberg725 wrote: »

I took A LONGGG break from eso.. recently came back because of friends wanting to roll in the pvp event and played in Ravenwatch it was the most fun I’ve had playing pvp in YEARS no proc cheese

It is fun playing without proccsets that carry people too hard. The shame is ravenwatch is only active during primetime.

RetPing · February 26

Yestarday I played on Blackreach - PC EU.
The amount of organized groups crutching on RoA to destroy new people was shameful.

I can only imagine how they feel now about PvP.

TechMaybeHic · February 26

RetPing wrote: »

Yestarday I played on Blackreach - PC EU.
The amount of organized groups crutching on RoA to destroy new people was shameful.

I can only imagine how they feel now about PvP.

I can't believe how long RoA has been allowed to go. Ignoring CC rules is tge worst thing ever done in this game, and it's had some dooozies

xylena_lazarow · February 26

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I can't believe how long RoA has been allowed to go. Ignoring CC rules is tge worst thing ever done in this game, and it's had some dooozies

That's why it's completely ridiculous for players to lump something like MDW, which is just pressure damage the same as Deadly Strike, in with idiotic pull procs that literally play the game for you like Rushing Agony or Dark Convergence.

Kartalin · February 26

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

RetPing wrote: »

Yestarday I played on Blackreach - PC EU.
The amount of organized groups crutching on RoA to destroy new people was shameful.

I can only imagine how they feel now about PvP.

I can't believe how long RoA has been allowed to go. Ignoring CC rules is tge worst thing ever done in this game, and it's had some dooozies

It doesn't ignore cc immunity but it probably should give immunity which it currently does not.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

That's why it's completely ridiculous for players to lump something like MDW, which is just pressure damage the same as Deadly Strike, in with idiotic pull procs that literally play the game for you like Rushing Agony or Dark Convergence.

I genuinely roll my eyes when I see people say that. Proc sets don’t “play the game for you”. And RoA especially doesn’t do anything for you without other sources of damage. You still have to hit them, you still have to be in a good position to kill someone, and you still have to be able to get enough damage out to get over the nearly unkillable tanks.

Last week, I watched two tanks stand in one spot getting slammed by an entire ball group and half a zerg for fifteen minutes straight without going under 30% health. Get rid of those builds, and then we can talk about deleting meta sets. Until then, I’m going to continue to bomb and pull and Rending Slash my heart out.

sharquez · February 27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJj9-iVcZ1A

Pull effects are a staple of PVP games everywhere. You don't have to like them but they are not going anywhere.