How are people dodging and breaking free at the same time?

Caecus0

Title is basically my question. I notice a lot in Battlegrounds that people will somehow be able to break free instantly after getting stunned and then be in a dodge roll before the animation even starts. Very frequently I will watch an animation of my ability pelt an enemy in the face while they are doing that battle cry animation... And it just ends up counting as a dodge.

I have a hard time believing people are just that fast considering ESO's net code.

EDIT 12/9/2023: I see people are seeing that I'm implying foul play or cheating. While I'm certainly suspicious, I'm open-minded to the possibility that people have found a legitimate way to complete these actions in quick succession... Which leads to my question: HOW are they doing it? What keybinds are they using? Are macros allowed? I bind both my Break Free and Dodge to my 2 thumb buttons on my mouse. I can do the Break-Free into a Dodge right in the same thumb motion. For stuns I know are coming (E.G. the sound of Incap Strike) I prepare for it and can break out fairly quickly... But despite that, it isn't enough to avoid getting hit by their first attack after the stun. That's why I'm a bit confused. It's also a bit frustrating since I will watch my ability animation hit them before their dodge animation and it doesn't land.

Bear in mind this is in BATTLEGROUNDS, meaning No-CP

IZZEFlameLash

And considering that this is no CP... interesting...

AlterBlika

You expected them to be slow or what

ItsNotLiving

I’m always on the side that nobody is actually cheating in the game, there are some reasons it looks like that most of the time it’s lag or the game has been out for a very long time and some people have gotten very good at certain combinations of actions that aren’t on the global cooldown. Break free into roll dodge is one of the main combinations things like light attack into ability into bash are another.

CrazyKitty

For the break free part of your question, there is a CP passive that gives an automatic break free every so often, I think it's 1 minute or something, can't remember exactly the cool down, but there is a CP passive that could explain the break free part of what you're seeing.

danko355

You shouldn’t have hard time believing people are that fast, because this combination is really super easy to use. Some people do it on autopilot, it’s in a muscle memory shaped after years of PvP. Otherwise you wouldn’t last long against nightblades with their incap into merciless combo and many other nasty things

Caecus0

AlterBlika wrote: »

You expected them to be slow or what

Not slow, but certainly not that fast considering lag.

loosej

Sets still work in bg, so Dauntless Combatant maybe?

https://eso-sets.com/set/dauntless-combatant

RoxyPhoenix

Interesting, while I do believe there are some individuals who abuse scripting and macro mechanics, majority of good pvp players are just that, good players with years of experience. I know how the OP feels, for the long time I thought that something is wrong, but after years of pvping I too, get messages on how I did this, or that, seemingly impossible things. And I never know what to say, muscle memory bro? And our good ol' friend Mr Lag.

Exeter411

Lag is likely what's happening, and it's effects are far greater than most players realize. About a year ago I had (brief) fight with a well known streamer. I couldn't undertand how he was resisting my attacks, molten whips right to the face and his health never budged, etc. The next day I took a look at his stream and realized he'd been streaming during our encounter. I scrolled through his recorded session until I found our fight to see how he did it, and it was illuminating. Where I thought I was attacking him, he'd actually already moved off to one side, or behind me. My attacks were right there on the screen, flailing empty air.

Lag. Gotta love it. And embrace AOE damage.

Caecus0

loosej wrote: »

Sets still work in bg, so Dauntless Combatant maybe?

https://eso-sets.com/set/dauntless-combatant

I did not know this set was a thing. This could be the case that some players are using this!

Caecus0

Exeter411 wrote: »

Lag is likely what's happening, and it's effects are far greater than most players realize. About a year ago I had (brief) fight with a well known streamer. I couldn't undertand how he was resisting my attacks, molten whips right to the face and his health never budged, etc. The next day I took a look at his stream and realized he'd been streaming during our encounter. I scrolled through his recorded session until I found our fight to see how he did it, and it was illuminating. Where I thought I was attacking him, he'd actually already moved off to one side, or behind me. My attacks were right there on the screen, flailing empty air.

Lag. Gotta love it. And embrace AOE damage.

Very interesting insight. I appreciate it!

I guess it is a bit frustrating because I have seen a lot of guides saying that stuns are more for draining stamina and guaranteeing the next attack. Deltia is such a streamer that has historically mentioned this.

I guess I thought that the stuns would be more useful even if they didn't last the full duration. It just seems to me that if a stun could be broken so quickly, wouldn't it mean it is actually BUFFING the player you stunned, depending on their "While immune to CC" buffs? It just seems very odd to me.

IZZEFlameLash

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I’m always on the side that nobody is actually cheating in the game, there are some reasons it looks like that most of the time it’s lag or the game has been out for a very long time and some people have gotten very good at certain combinations of actions that aren’t on the global cooldown. Break free into roll dodge is one of the main combinations things like light attack into ability into bash are another.

Yeeeah, that Cheat Engine debacle years ago and human nature would say the otherwise. There's no such thing as no cheater. As Cheat Engine debacle showed, they will cheat if something super accessible works in a moment's notice.

Now, there may be lower number, but there's no such thing as no cheater in any games save for multiplayer games that are completely dead and no one beside you is on.

cptfrog

What is the issue with people breaking free quick and then instantly roll dodging after?
After you break free all you need to do is wait for 1 single GCB and then you can instantly roll dodge after which is very fast.
Have you ever heard of Animation canceling?

What you are complaining about is nothing wierd.
It all depends on how fast x person is with the intitial stun to break free from it, i've seen people breaking free in 0.4s which is extremely fast, the avg of people in my group that play PvP is roughly between 0.6-0.8s and then you can just instantly roll dodge after if u'd like.

YetAnotherLinuxUser

macrobionics? but if they were they'd get a nice juicy banishment...

Janni

Caecus0 wrote: »

Exeter411 wrote: »

Lag is likely what's happening, and it's effects are far greater than most players realize. About a year ago I had (brief) fight with a well known streamer. I couldn't undertand how he was resisting my attacks, molten whips right to the face and his health never budged, etc. The next day I took a look at his stream and realized he'd been streaming during our encounter. I scrolled through his recorded session until I found our fight to see how he did it, and it was illuminating. Where I thought I was attacking him, he'd actually already moved off to one side, or behind me. My attacks were right there on the screen, flailing empty air.

Lag. Gotta love it. And embrace AOE damage.

Very interesting insight. I appreciate it!

I guess it is a bit frustrating because I have seen a lot of guides saying that stuns are more for draining stamina and guaranteeing the next attack. Deltia is such a streamer that has historically mentioned this.

I guess I thought that the stuns would be more useful even if they didn't last the full duration. It just seems to me that if a stun could be broken so quickly, wouldn't it mean it is actually BUFFING the player you stunned, depending on their "While immune to CC" buffs? It just seems very odd to me.

The thing to remeber is that some of the best players out there have killer internet. If they are a professional streamer this is especially true. That's not to say that they aren't good but you have to consider their strategies and builds with that in mind. I learned a long time ago that absolutely none of those builds work for me with my internet. I have to play a completely different way and always assume everything I'm seeing onscreen is at least half a second behind.

Bushido2513

Actually it's a pretty simple thing people aren't always aware of in games and computing.

There is you, the server and the other player.

What you see on your screen is a representation of the server processing both your inputs. It's not all exactly happening in real time by far, just let's say very fast

So you input a cc, they input a cc break and then roll dodge. The server queues up these actions to then parse and display. You throw your next attack but the serve is now parsing the player's dodge and then says your attack will miss.

A lot of this has to do with things you can't see in the way networking and the servers processing code works but just understand it's not a 1 for 1 instant thing, it's more of a best effort processing thing.


Another interesting effect, you can actually avoid a lot of AOE damage and some damage in general in the game by being extremely fast. This is because when a person does an AOE attack the server says it hits this area, if you're moving fast enough the area that gets hit will fairly often not be the area that the server shows you in to the other player.

On my fast build I watch people miss dawnbreakers all the time and I don't think it's bad aim just them declaring the attack where the server indicated I was to them when they hit the ult.

This was also seen in the more laggy times with pvp when templar jabs couldn't really hit because of this position desync

So all that is to say that sometimes you will just see things in a way that looks out of order or all at once and that's just the server doing the best it can to gather all the inputs from across the network then relay an outcome to you the player.

huskandhunger

Caecus0 wrote: »

Title is basically my question. I notice a lot in Battlegrounds that people will somehow be able to break free instantly after getting stunned and then be in a dodge roll before the animation even starts. Very frequently I will watch an animation of my ability pelt an enemy in the face while they are doing that battle cry animation... And it just ends up counting as a dodge.

I have a hard time believing people are just that fast considering ESO's net code.

EDIT 12/9/2023: I see people are seeing that I'm implying foul play or cheating. While I'm certainly suspicious, I'm open-minded to the possibility that people have found a legitimate way to complete these actions in quick succession... Which leads to my question: HOW are they doing it? What keybinds are they using? Are macros allowed? I bind both my Break Free and Dodge to my 2 thumb buttons on my mouse. I can do the Break-Free into a Dodge right in the same thumb motion. For stuns I know are coming (E.G. the sound of Incap Strike) I prepare for it and can break out fairly quickly... But despite that, it isn't enough to avoid getting hit by their first attack after the stun. That's why I'm a bit confused. It's also a bit frustrating since I will watch my ability animation hit them before their dodge animation and it doesn't land.

Bear in mind this is in BATTLEGROUNDS, meaning No-CP

It is a break free poison that will automatically break you free if CCd it is very common

SandandStars

It’s got to be related to server lag or some other glitch. It happens to me sometimes— I get hit by colorless pool or some other cc, and instantly breakfree & roll, which is astounding because 99% of the time I get stuck and can’t break free at all for 5 or 6 seconds (and get killed) due to lag/server issues.

Been playing bgs for ~3 years, and my reflexes are fairly consistent. ESO pvp server performance is not.

I should clarify: I am actually hitting break free when this happens. It’s just that 1 in 50 times it actually works when I hit it.

IZZEFlameLash

SandandStars wrote: »

It’s got to be related to server lag or some other glitch. It happens to me sometimes— I get hit by colorless pool or some other cc, and instantly breakfree & roll, which is astounding because 99% of the time I get stuck and can’t break free at all for 5 or 6 seconds (and get killed) due to lag/server issues.

Been playing bgs for ~3 years, and my reflexes are fairly consistent. ESO pvp server performance is not.

I should clarify: I am actually hitting break free when this happens. It’s just that 1 in 50 times it actually works when I hit it.

Yeah, same as my experience. Can't break free consistently despite hitting break free at full stam immediately after getting CC'd. Performance is terrible. Like yeah, 200ms ping due to distance for me but performance degradation is really even more noticeable.

jasonleitch1_ESO

Server lag could contribute to the issue that you are seeing.

For fast break free and dodge roll I changed my keybindings to my mouse wheel (using a logitech g502 lightspeed so you may need other options depending on your mouse and preferences).

dodge roll - mouse wheel (scroll up, scroll down, center press)
breakfree - mouse wheel (left click, right click)

As I rarely zoom my camera in and out, I bound the camera zoom to the "+" and "-" on the number pad.

This allows me to break free with a finger wiggle and dodge roll with slight movement of the scroll wheel.

The down side with these keybindings is that I accidently dodge roll while looking at the map or scrolling through my bags, not a big issue overall.