a 50k HP build shouldNT do more damages than a 30k HP build

Xarc

This game is broken
now in cyrodiil we only meet 45k 50k even saw a 70k HP build (without any metamorphose)

I mean, i have nothing against tank builds, but we should have to choose between survivability and damages, it's not the case actually

Some damages/spells/heals are based on health, how it comes ?

Same way for speed : when a 60k HP build takes scroll and you cant catch him with full speed, there's a problem. I know some sets & race increase speed but still, there's a problem here

Please ZOS fix your game

TheDarkRuler

Each build has a role and a weakness. If a character is both tanky and deals damage, the sustain is probably weak. Also keep in mind that nerving health-based scaling would impact PVE meta alot too. And PVE playerbase is severely larger than PVP...

Twohothardware

They need to increase the weight max stamina and magicka has on damage so that you’re giving up a lot more to put points in health.

Tyrant_Tim

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to increase the weight max stamina and magicka has on damage so that you’re giving up a lot more to put points in health.

Or have heals scale with max stats instead of weapon and spell damage, I feel that would be a decent compromise.

That way you’re forced to pick three of the four categories, being sustain, mitigation, healing, and damage, instead of where we’re at now with players able to work in all four aspects to their build.

Zodiarkslayer

How about you are not allowed to use sets? Just blank armor, like with the companions.😳

This way PvP is all about passives, abilities and PLAYER SKILL! I think this would be the best thing to happen to PvP. ☝️

Tyrant_Tim

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

How about you are not allowed to use sets? Just blank armor, like with the companions.😳

This way PvP is all about passives, abilities and PLAYER SKILL! I think this would be the best thing to happen to PvP. ☝️

This would actually be a lot of fun while helping to create the ground work for any competitive play setting in the future.

Janni

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Each build has a role and a weakness. If a character is both tanky and deals damage, the sustain is probably weak. Also keep in mind that nerving health-based scaling would impact PVE meta alot too. And PVE playerbase is severely larger than PVP...

You clearly haven't seen the tanks I have seen... or played for that matter. Also I think this would be equally unhealthy for PvE as the basis is built around the party trinity. What PvE tank needs 6k weapon damage and 40k hp? (And EA doesn't count, that's an infinitely scaling difficulty)

OsUfi

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

How about you are not allowed to use sets? Just blank armor, like with the companions.😳

This way PvP is all about passives, abilities and PLAYER SKILL! I think this would be the best thing to happen to PvP. ☝️

Nice idea, but Ravenwatch has never been as popular as Grey Host because most players like all the whizz bangs that come with CP and proc sets. Why waste resources leaning further into the the stripped down play style for probably near-dead campaigns.

Jamie_Aubrey

Anyone that runs around towers with 50k and can kill 10 people attacking them should be looked at

Heelie

Always so many claims, but no reciets - ESO logs exist.

Kisakee

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

Anyone that runs around towers with 50k and can kill 10 people attacking them should be looked at

They should get applause for making a bunch of morons chasing them. Plus their ability to kill someone is highly restricted to a certain moment where they need to get everything lined up perfectly or they won't get any kills to that's peak performance for a couple seconds.

OsUfi

Dekrypted wrote: »

Saw an 80k hp warden today kill a 30k player. The 30k hp player wasnt that good at healing themselves, but if you have 80k hp you probably shouldnt be doing any real damage in PvP lol

Here's the thing, you're not taking into account the 30k hp guys build. Was he a bomber? A glass cannon? A newbie? People come into PvP in light to medium armour with little experience hoping to survive. That barely puts them above overground difficulty for anyone who has PvP'ed.

I still use my one bar high-health necro from this thread when playing in Cyro solo. I sit at about 56-60k health, bouncing to 88k-90k health in bone goliath form. I'm genuinely hopeless at PvP (as most of Grey Host EU can attest, though I still try). I've still killed people in 1 on 1 situations. I had 4 people once struggle to take me down at Cropsford, and I still took one with me.

With all that said, I get hit so hard by some players I have enough time to process that I'm being attacked but barely have time to get my Spirit Guardian out before my corpse is bouncing along the floor.

An 80k hp warden should absolutely take down someone less experienced than them, especially if they're built for PvE or in light armour or just inexperienced.

I'm sorry to say if an 80k hp player is taking you down on the reg, "skill issue."

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Xarc

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to increase the weight max stamina and magicka has on damage so that you’re giving up a lot more to put points in health.

Maybe.

To be honnest I dont care what is needed to make it, as long as they fix their game

SandandStars

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

How about you are not allowed to use sets? Just blank armor, like with the companions.😳

This way PvP is all about passives, abilities and PLAYER SKILL! I think this would be the best thing to happen to PvP. ☝️

I would 100% love this.

But they’ve designed the game’s business model around new sets selling new content.

gariondavey

This is all because of the free 1000 wd and 5k stam + mag + 3k hp we got a few years ago in cp rework.

You take those away for pvp, and pvp becomes extremely different lol.

IZZEFlameLash

Well, I wouldn't be against the idea of diminishing returns on health investment after certain threshold. Such as reduction in damage after 35k health or something.

OsUfi wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Saw an 80k hp warden today kill a 30k player. The 30k hp player wasnt that good at healing themselves, but if you have 80k hp you probably shouldnt be doing any real damage in PvP lol

Here's the thing, you're not taking into account the 30k hp guys build. Was he a bomber? A glass cannon? A newbie? People come into PvP in light to medium armour with little experience hoping to survive. That barely puts them above overground difficulty for anyone who has PvP'ed.

I still use my one bar high-health necro from this thread when playing in Cyro solo. I sit at about 56-60k health, bouncing to 88k-90k health in bone goliath form. I'm genuinely hopeless at PvP (as most of Grey Host EU can attest, though I still try). I've still killed people in 1 on 1 situations. I had 4 people once struggle to take me down at Cropsford, and I still took one with me.

With all that said, I get hit so hard by some players I have enough time to process that I'm being attacked but barely have time to get my Spirit Guardian out before my corpse is bouncing along the floor.

An 80k hp warden should absolutely take down someone less experienced than them, especially if they're built for PvE or in light armour or just inexperienced.

I'm sorry to say if an 80k hp player is taking you down on the reg, "skill issue."

Well, I guess 80k hp Warden can kill because some skills scale off of health in terms of damage and healing effectiveness. Cannot think of any other classes that can procure a kill on their own at 80k health outside of Warden and possibly NB. Maybe odd Templar with j-beam on low health targets. But that is not really the player securing their own kill.

But yeah, often times when I see high health full tanks securing a kill, it is either ult dump with other friends, troll moves to feed people to the fish or the opponents just never healing at all while wearing full squishy setup.

Arcanasx

50k hp builds that kill are usually running balorghs and sometimes clever alchemist too.

They basically use their tankiness to survive/stalemate and once they feel like they've built enough ult and have a potion ready to be used, they'll attempt a balorghs ult dump to secure a kill.

SkaraMinoc

Remember when players had 15k health in PvP? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Elyu

Arcanasx wrote: »

50k hp builds that kill are usually running balorghs and sometimes clever alchemist too.

They basically use their tankiness to survive/stalemate and once they feel like they've built enough ult and have a potion ready to be used, they'll attempt a balorghs ult dump to secure a kill.

Although I think this thread is part of the wider combat-balance conversation, this quote highlights an important point.

Namely - there should be trade-offs.

If you want dmg, you should sacrifice survivability, or vice versa.

As others on this thread have pointed out, you should have to build specifically for burst, rather than running an 'opportunist' build like how stealthy gankblades are supposed to be, but without having to be sneaky and choose your moments, instead of just run around with 60k health in 7 heavy armour, having the benefits of both high offensive stats, for regular healing skills (i.e. vigor) AND the health based heals like dragons blood.

FoJul

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

And PVE playerbase is severely larger than PVP...

This is the reason ESO can never get fair balancing. Always one side or the other tugging the rope.

Edit: PvP would be widely larger, if there was balance, and new content. PvE'rs get loads of new content every year. PvP gets what exactly? A nerf to a skill that people are exploiting in PvE, so now that entire class suffers in pvp?

Make it make sense.

DrNukenstein

I could see it happening with some draugrkin/dragons apetite+masters dw cheese. The free damage sets give you impressive (but not very lethal) damage even when everything else in your build is tank.

You'd have still have a lot of time to decide if you really want to keep wailing on this HP enthusiast though. You won't die out of nowhere to something like that, unless you got 3rd partied out of nowhere. I mean, even the legendary incap>specbow combo needs some stats behind it.

RebornV3x

There should be some draw backs for high health, heavy armor builds for PVP
have damage reduced by 2% for each piece of heavy armor equip if wearing 3 or more pieces
and second for every 1k HP above 35k you would do .25% less damage this would have a trade off run less tanky builds for more damage or go full tank and be a tank this would encourage more player to have less tanky builds which would then lower the Time to Kill in PVP and therefore help the game.

MindOfTheSwarm

I don’t see a problem with a high health player killing a lower health player if they survive the opening burst or combo. Bruiser builds are totally a thing and should be able to beat a high damage player in a prolonged battle. The problem is the burst they can pull off. Skills that scale with health are usually DoTs and these alone aren’t much of an issue and honestly need a bit of a buff imo. Sets on the other hand are the real elephant in the room.

Reverb

Heelie wrote: »

Always so many claims, but no reciets - ESO logs exist.

Point me to the cyrodiil logs

CameraBeardThePirate

Reverb wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Always so many claims, but no reciets - ESO logs exist.

Point me to the cyrodiil logs

/encounterlog still exists in Cyrodiil. It may be really tough to decipher with how many enemies you'll run into, and you can only see the builds of whomever is in your group, but it DOES still work.

Amottica

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Each build has a role and a weakness. If a character is both tanky and deals damage, the sustain is probably weak. Also keep in mind that nerving health-based scaling would impact PVE meta alot too. And PVE playerbase is severely larger than PVP...

Both good points.

I would also add that some players are more effective with their build than others with the same build. PvP is a place where this is most present since one cannot just memorize what they need to do at any given point.

Major_Toughness

So someone with a build that has high health and high weapon/spell damage, with a health-scaling heal, was able to kill someone of lower health, probably similar weapon/spell damage.

That's all we really know. It is very likely the 30k HP player was just worse and/or in a worse build. Maybe even worse class. We do not know that for sure, however based on the outcome, very likely.

The game has it's issues but focusing on HP is completely wrong. Especially when it's a warden with Minor Toughness and Polar Wind.

This also isn't anything new. High HP Wardens have been strong for years.

FoJul

Major_Toughness wrote: »

So someone with a build that has high health and high weapon/spell damage, with a health-scaling heal, was able to kill someone of lower health, probably similar weapon/spell damage.

That's all we really know. It is very likely the 30k HP player was just worse and/or in a worse build. Maybe even worse class. We do not know that for sure, however based on the outcome, very likely.

The game has it's issues but focusing on HP is completely wrong. Especially when it's a warden with Minor Toughness and Polar Wind.

This also isn't anything new. High HP Wardens have been strong for years.

Saw a 70k hp Arcanist that did some damage in OW... @Gopher was there to witness it. Shouldnt be possible...with vamp ult dude prolly at like 100k+

Gopher

FoJul wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

So someone with a build that has high health and high weapon/spell damage, with a health-scaling heal, was able to kill someone of lower health, probably similar weapon/spell damage.

That's all we really know. It is very likely the 30k HP player was just worse and/or in a worse build. Maybe even worse class. We do not know that for sure, however based on the outcome, very likely.

The game has it's issues but focusing on HP is completely wrong. Especially when it's a warden with Minor Toughness and Polar Wind.

This also isn't anything new. High HP Wardens have been strong for years.

Saw a 70k hp Arcanist that did some damage in OW... @Gopher was there to witness it. Shouldnt be possible...with vamp ult dude prolly at like 100k+

Just for reference, this arcanist was doing ~2.8k-3k dps. Nothing too insane, but way more damage than anyone with 70k hp should be allowed to do. With Arcanist shield scaling off health, this person was stacking shields and was probably sitting around 100k hp + shields, allowing him to simply facetank both of our combined dps. The playstyles that this meta is allowing people to use has been why me, and many of my friends have all but quit this game.