Shadowy Disguise is overloaded and needs readjustment

warm_blanket

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

StaticWave

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yup. Again... Major resolve, major savagery, guaranteed crit, 300 weapon damage if vampire (and you are, lol,) major berserk if using Concealed (and you are, lol.)

This is precisely why NB is currently the only class that have absurd amounts of offensive stats. It''s why NB can literally run ANY build and still have kill potential because of how many flat stats and damage amplifier it has.

For example, this is a very tanky NB build I created to demonstrate my point:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=589955



When fully buffed in CP, without continuous or other buffs, these are the stats I get:

Front Bar:



The 300 flat WD from Assassin's Will isn't included in the calculator, so I have to manually add it:



Back Bar:



Keep in mind, this is a TANK build. Rallying Cry and Markyn are the only 2 sets with some damage component, yet we're able to achieve these stats:

Offensive:
- 6.2k weapon damage
- 115% crit damage
- 44% crit chance
- 15k pen
- 26k mag
- 1.9k stam regen and 1.7k mag regen
- 10% Major Berserk
- 20% Unnamed Vulnerability from Incap

Defensive:
- 33k resistance front bar and 36k resistance back bar
- 3.2k crit resistance
- Chance to get Major Expedition, Major Vitality, Major Mending, Major Protection, or Major Heroism
- Major Evasion, 4s snare/root immunity and snare/root cleanse, free dodge roll every few seconds
- Minor Cowardice
- Minor Expedition
- Cloak

Your healing is unmatched because you're able to stack both Major + Minor Mending with Major Vitality and even Major Protection if you're lucky, while also having 36k resistance and 3.2k crit resistance. Your damage is also very good too, since you have 44% crit chance, 115% crit damage, 6.2k weapon damage, and 26k mag, with Major Berserk and 20% Vulnerability on top. With Major Heroism, Bloodspawn, and NB passive giving ult for using potions, you're basically going to crap out Incaps left and right.

I can guarantee you this though: If you attempt to wear this build on another class, you're going to be disappointed because while you are tanky, you just don't have the damage to kill people. NB is the only class that can pull this build off effectively. Even Warden needs to run Thrassian if it wants to achieve the same stat density as NB. But wait, NB can literally just do the same thing lol...

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Simple Solution:

Remove the passive major savagery and major prophecy, instead make the passive reduce detection radius by 5 meters, when the skill itself is activated it will not make you invisible, instead if will heal like Dark Cloak.

The difference between the two morphs will be reduced detect radius OR Minor Protection, the base ability will just heal and provide no passive buffs.

Bushido2513

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

OBJnoob

Bushido2513 wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

Well. I know I've been towing a pretty hard line about the whole thing, but I think this goes too far. You make this change and suddenly NBs do have a reason to complain.

Isn't turning around and fighting when revealed exactly what we keep telling them to do? Just like a NB should be prepared to fight when revealed a person revealing a NB should be prepared for what they get!

Bushido2513

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

Well. I know I've been towing a pretty hard line about the whole thing, but I think this goes too far. You make this change and suddenly NBs do have a reason to complain.

Isn't turning around and fighting when revealed exactly what we keep telling them to do? Just like a NB should be prepared to fight when revealed a person revealing a NB should be prepared for what they get!

This is correct, they should have a fighting chance but the damage is just free flowing at this point just for getting revealed and not because it was setup. Even still then you add the high healing on top and it just becomes a little too easy to fight back with overwhelming force and defenses.

Galeriano

It's not just shadowy disguise it's nightblade class in general. One or two overloaded abilities for a class is not a big deal but when You have class like nightblade where it's becoming hard to find ability that isn't packed with nice secondary effects it starts to becoming a bit silly.

It's kinda ironic to sometimes read how people playing classes like sorc ask developer to provide them with one or two basic major/minor buff/debuff like major prophecy or breach while on the other hand so many things is being given to a nightblade it's hard to keep track of it.

OBJnoob

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

Well. I know I've been towing a pretty hard line about the whole thing, but I think this goes too far. You make this change and suddenly NBs do have a reason to complain.

Isn't turning around and fighting when revealed exactly what we keep telling them to do? Just like a NB should be prepared to fight when revealed a person revealing a NB should be prepared for what they get!

This is correct, they should have a fighting chance but the damage is just free flowing at this point just for getting revealed and not because it was setup. Even still then you add the high healing on top and it just becomes a little too easy to fight back with overwhelming force and defenses.

I mean... Yes, you're right.

I dunno. My opinion is probably too specifically MINE to be agreed upon by all. But. I'm happy with the invisibility functionality of cloak and I wouldn't want them to take what is basically a debuff for being revealed.

It WOULD be cool if the vampire weapon damage wasn't tied to it and so uniquely theirs. But I wouldn't want that to hinge upon how they were revealed.

And adding major savagery to it was over the top as well. But ZOS almost never flat out reverts a change, so I think we're living with that one for a while.

IZZEFlameLash

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

If you like the high risk high reward playstyle then go ahead and glass yourself up. If you can't kill anyone on an invisible glass cannon NB then that's a you issue. They have plenty of damage. But don't reap all the rewards and then complain about the risks.

Incidentally NBs aren't forced into a high risk playstyle anymore. That might be what you choose but that isn't all they're good for. Just because you choose not to use Shade, Vigor, Mirage, Fear, Healthy Offering, doesn't mean the NB class-- who has all these survival tools-- needs to be balanced around you.

All the other players that actually know how to PvP will be obscenely strong and cancerous to the game.

That being said... I don't necessarily think Shadowy Disguise needs to be weaker either. I don't think it should give major savagery, but the ability to be invisible is fine BECAUSE there are counters. A ramping cost might be in order-- mostly just because other similar skills have one. But I'm not upset that NBs get to walk around invisible. I am however a little upset that people would suggest it isn't strong enough. Upset and deeply confused. If you think the NB identity is "do whatever you want then go invisible to continue doing whatever you want," then you're just wrong.

The other part of what has been so upsetting about the comments made by those who were using that as an excuse to claim that its not strong enough, is that they also had the gall to turn around and tell those calling for the weaker classes to receive buffs to simply update their builds while at the same time refusing to update their own builds to take advantage of the countless tools given to their class and using that as the entire basis for their claims to prevent any balance being done on their class but also as an excuse to attempt to prevent any buffs from being given to the weaker classes...

Couldn't have said this (bolded part) any better myself. That basically has been the way rhetoric on anything NB + class balance related have gone for almost a decade now.

Solariken

I'm okay with the overall strength of Cloak. My gripe is the class burst healing potential. I think self healing would be a more appropriate weakness for NB since it's so easy to reset a fight. I also think Major Resolve should be removed from the class and it should be the only class without it, just like Necro is the only class without Major Brutality/Sorcery.

Zabulus

StaticWave wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

-

It's the little things like this that I am against. NB has become very hard to kill while also dishing out insane burst, and that is NOT okay.

NB Hard to kill ???
Let's talk about tank DK, tank Arca, evading Sorc, tank Necro, warden ?

In fact : all the classes are harder to kill than NB.
When i see a NB in a group it's always my first target, because he will go down fast.

Bushido2513

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

Well. I know I've been towing a pretty hard line about the whole thing, but I think this goes too far. You make this change and suddenly NBs do have a reason to complain.

Isn't turning around and fighting when revealed exactly what we keep telling them to do? Just like a NB should be prepared to fight when revealed a person revealing a NB should be prepared for what they get!

This is correct, they should have a fighting chance but the damage is just free flowing at this point just for getting revealed and not because it was setup. Even still then you add the high healing on top and it just becomes a little too easy to fight back with overwhelming force and defenses.

I mean... Yes, you're right.

I dunno. My opinion is probably too specifically MINE to be agreed upon by all. But. I'm happy with the invisibility functionality of cloak and I wouldn't want them to take what is basically a debuff for being revealed.

It WOULD be cool if the vampire weapon damage wasn't tied to it and so uniquely theirs. But I wouldn't want that to hinge upon how they were revealed.

And adding major savagery to it was over the top as well. But ZOS almost never flat out reverts a change, so I think we're living with that one for a while.

Well to be honest it wouldn't be terrible if the vamp passive had a cooldown but even past all that if I do somehow deal with the damage and try to counter it's going to be an issue if they just outheal my counter and either keep up offensive or reset the fight.

Not trying to just kill off NB by any stretch but there needs to be more effort on their part for the things they have access to.

Vaqual

Solariken wrote: »

I also think Major Resolve should be removed from the class and it should be the only class without it, just like Necro is the only class without Major Brutality/Sorcery.

This just makes me sad.

OBJnoob

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

Well. I know I've been towing a pretty hard line about the whole thing, but I think this goes too far. You make this change and suddenly NBs do have a reason to complain.

Isn't turning around and fighting when revealed exactly what we keep telling them to do? Just like a NB should be prepared to fight when revealed a person revealing a NB should be prepared for what they get!

This is correct, they should have a fighting chance but the damage is just free flowing at this point just for getting revealed and not because it was setup. Even still then you add the high healing on top and it just becomes a little too easy to fight back with overwhelming force and defenses.

I mean... Yes, you're right.

I dunno. My opinion is probably too specifically MINE to be agreed upon by all. But. I'm happy with the invisibility functionality of cloak and I wouldn't want them to take what is basically a debuff for being revealed.

It WOULD be cool if the vampire weapon damage wasn't tied to it and so uniquely theirs. But I wouldn't want that to hinge upon how they were revealed.

And adding major savagery to it was over the top as well. But ZOS almost never flat out reverts a change, so I think we're living with that one for a while.

Well to be honest it wouldn't be terrible if the vamp passive had a cooldown but even past all that if I do somehow deal with the damage and try to counter it's going to be an issue if they just outheal my counter and either keep up offensive or reset the fight.

Not trying to just kill off NB by any stretch but there needs to be more effort on their part for the things they have access to.

No, it wouldn't be terrible if the vamp passive had a cooldown. It wouldn't be terrible if invisibility just didn't proc it either. Having people going ham on mist form might be kinda annoying too, but at least that would feel like a vampire passive being earned and used.

Or maybe it should function like AW and Molten Whip. Every time you activate a vampire ability you get 100 weapon damage, stacking up to 3 times, lasting 6 seconds.

As for NB specifically, not involving the vampire thing, I've always been a fan of lowering the tooltips on AW. I can see why people would just rather they just not heal quite so well... I agree that would be the more thematic change. I think lowering AW would be better for balance though.

I'm basically forced to run some meta brawler blob at the moment because anything else at all lives under constant threat of 20k AWs.

Bushido2513

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Seriously, it'd be worth putting on your bar even if it didn't make you go invisible.

Like you can click it, get immediately revealed, and you're still strong AF.

That's the big problem with cloak in its current state. The reason metablades ditched camo hunter for cloak is the passives - that you can also go invisible is just seen as a bonus.

It's the reason why a ramping cost isn't a good solution atm, you don't actually need to spam cloak to proc the passive buffs, so ramping the cost up won't do anything significant.

You gotta have the crit buff proc on cast for a few secs instead of having it permanently. Maybe decouple the vamp WD buff from nb invis as well.

Funny joke because it's absolutely true. I revealed a nb yesterday and the player just turned around and started hitting me with hard hitting attacks.

Almost feels like damage passives should only kick in if you choose to leave stealth and not if you're forced to leave it.

Well. I know I've been towing a pretty hard line about the whole thing, but I think this goes too far. You make this change and suddenly NBs do have a reason to complain.

Isn't turning around and fighting when revealed exactly what we keep telling them to do? Just like a NB should be prepared to fight when revealed a person revealing a NB should be prepared for what they get!

This is correct, they should have a fighting chance but the damage is just free flowing at this point just for getting revealed and not because it was setup. Even still then you add the high healing on top and it just becomes a little too easy to fight back with overwhelming force and defenses.

I mean... Yes, you're right.

I dunno. My opinion is probably too specifically MINE to be agreed upon by all. But. I'm happy with the invisibility functionality of cloak and I wouldn't want them to take what is basically a debuff for being revealed.

It WOULD be cool if the vampire weapon damage wasn't tied to it and so uniquely theirs. But I wouldn't want that to hinge upon how they were revealed.

And adding major savagery to it was over the top as well. But ZOS almost never flat out reverts a change, so I think we're living with that one for a while.

Well to be honest it wouldn't be terrible if the vamp passive had a cooldown but even past all that if I do somehow deal with the damage and try to counter it's going to be an issue if they just outheal my counter and either keep up offensive or reset the fight.

Not trying to just kill off NB by any stretch but there needs to be more effort on their part for the things they have access to.

No, it wouldn't be terrible if the vamp passive had a cooldown. It wouldn't be terrible if invisibility just didn't proc it either. Having people going ham on mist form might be kinda annoying too, but at least that would feel like a vampire passive being earned and used.

Or maybe it should function like AW and Molten Whip. Every time you activate a vampire ability you get 100 weapon damage, stacking up to 3 times, lasting 6 seconds.

As for NB specifically, not involving the vampire thing, I've always been a fan of lowering the tooltips on AW. I can see why people would just rather they just not heal quite so well... I agree that would be the more thematic change. I think lowering AW would be better for balance though.

I'm basically forced to run some meta brawler blob at the moment because anything else at all lives under constant threat of 20k AWs.

Those are actually good suggestions for a change to vamp passive. Like gee I get it procing off mist form, that's just synergy and a reward for using the vamp skill but to give it to NB because they just happen to go on demand invisible doesn't make sense or just only make it happen for mist form and stage 4 vamp sneek. Otherwise NB is really the only one that can easily use it without even trying to.

Yeah I basically have to play tanky if I want to be able to live long enough to enjoy combat.

Side note I also enjoy seeing nbs running around with power extraction. So not only do you get your major buff, you deal damage, debuff me and buff yourself. Then if you just hit cloak you get another damage boost???? These aren't even hard combos or anything that requires timing or really even thinking too hard.

Also too I do want to say for fairness that this will affect different classes and builds in different ways. So if you play a beefy Warden, DK, or Arcanist these things may not be a big issue to you. For me as a sorc with low grade healing it can be more of a challenge if I don't build even more tanky than a NB has to. Just not an overall well balanced gameplay experience to me.

OBJnoob

-puts on a gray wig.- I remember... Back in the day... Sorcs -vs- NBs used to be a very fun fight. I played a squishy hit and run stamsorc. Hurricane revealed NBs, and Stamsorc's had the speed advantage.

You could get straight up deleted by a NB if you weren't fast enough, but if you managed to reveal them and time a few dodge rolls right you'd end up with the initiative and probably win the fight because they were even squishier than me.

It felt very equal and very fast paced. The advantages and disadvantages of each were clearly defined.

Fighting a NB these days feels like fighting a DLC raid-boss lol. Every spammable chunks you, and when they go invisible you know you have to hold block cuz it's the execute phase. For you, not the boss.

warm_blanket

OBJnoob wrote: »

As for NB specifically, not involving the vampire thing, I've always been a fan of lowering the tooltips on AW. I can see why people would just rather they just not heal quite so well... I agree that would be the more thematic change. I think lowering AW would be better for balance though.

I'm basically forced to run some meta brawler blob at the moment because anything else at all lives under constant threat of 20k AWs.

fwiw any 20k bow proc you see on your recap has been boosted by 2k from concealed weapon. CW is yet another overloaded ability, and probably the most impactful one for the class overall. Getting effectively free 10% damage just for slotting a class spammable is insane.

That being said it's important not to nerf the nb damage ceiling. The one thing they should always be good at is massive burst damage from stealth. It's just too easy to reach the damage ceiling atm, it should require more investment/setup in terms of barspace/gear/GCDs.

Not to go offtopic but a good way of nerfing nb in general is just to spread out the power of it's currently overloaded skills into the rest of its kit.

For example with CW it would be fine to move the major berserk proc to another underused skill, eg whenever you cast mark target you get major berserk for a few seconds. Now to reach the same 20k bow proc the nb player would need to slot an extra skill, and use up an extra GCD - the damage ceiling hasn't changed but it requires more investment to reach.

Mark target is actually not a bad candidate in this example too since it's the biggest telegraph of incoming burst in the game, so any player on the receiving end of a fat bow proc would have had far more than fair warning to mitigate it.

OBJnoob

@warm_blanket Yes I agree. Take some of the power from their 2 or 3 kills and definitely give it back elsewhere. There's PvE, for one thing.

emilyhyoyeon

warm_blanket wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

As for NB specifically, not involving the vampire thing, I've always been a fan of lowering the tooltips on AW. I can see why people would just rather they just not heal quite so well... I agree that would be the more thematic change. I think lowering AW would be better for balance though.

I'm basically forced to run some meta brawler blob at the moment because anything else at all lives under constant threat of 20k AWs.

Not to go offtopic but a good way of nerfing nb in general is just to spread out the power of it's currently overloaded skills into the rest of its kit.

For example with CW it would be fine to move the major berserk proc to another underused skill, eg whenever you cast mark target you get major berserk for a few seconds. Now to reach the same 20k bow proc the nb player would need to slot an extra skill, and use up an extra GCD - the damage ceiling hasn't changed but it requires more investment to reach.

another example with Drain Power:

Power Extraction:
deals damage
minor cowardice
minor courage

Sap Essence:
deals damage
heals

Put one of Power Extraction's buffs somewhere else in the kit or remove it entirely. Personally I'd rather see the minor courage go since the minor cowardice is useful for PVE tanks, especially with major on Aspect of Terror, and sources of minor courage are a lot more plentiful than cowardice.

Bushido2513

warm_blanket wrote: »

For example with CW it would be fine to move the major berserk proc to another underused skill, eg whenever you cast mark target you get major berserk for a few seconds. Now to reach the same 20k bow proc the nb player would need to slot an extra skill, and use up an extra GCD - the damage ceiling hasn't changed but it requires more investment to reach.

Mark target is actually not a bad candidate in this example too since it's the biggest telegraph of incoming burst in the game, so any player on the receiving end of a fat bow proc would have had far more than fair warning to mitigate it.

I do and don't like this idea. Yeah the idea of saying hey if you want that damage you have to telegraph is interesting but it's also too much of a nerf as well and isn't really in theme with the whole strike from the shadows.

I'd alternatively suggest a cooldown on the buff so that you're rewarded for a precise strike vs just being able to rinse repeat or even having a decline mechanic where you just get less of a buff on repeated use. NB should hit like a truck but basically have to have worked for it and played smart

StarOfElyon

I would be fine with it if the vampire skill line didn't exist to just be a buff for cloak users. Undeath needs to get the nerf hammer. Strike from the shadows needs to be against monsters only.

Bushido2513

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I would be fine with it if the vampire skill line didn't exist to just be a buff for cloak users. Undeath needs to get the nerf hammer. Strike from the shadows needs to be against monsters only.

Agree to some degree but in PvE you're not really cloaking as part of the rotation. I would rather strike from the shadows be the same or buffed but only work when you leave mist form. Then everyone gets the same chance to use it and it's in theme with vampire

Foxtrot39

StaticWave wrote: »

[...]

NB currently has access to both Major + Minor Expedition and a 4s snare cleanse/immunity that gives a free dodge roll every few seconds.


[...]

You only get the free dodge after taking 10 direct hit so effectively you never get it for free

CameraBeardThePirate

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

[...]

NB currently has access to both Major + Minor Expedition and a 4s snare cleanse/immunity that gives a free dodge roll every few seconds.


[...]

You only get the free dodge after taking 10 direct hit so effectively you never get it for free

Well no - direct AoE damage counts towards the proc. You can't dodge direct AoE damage. The free dodge roll is a free dodge roll no matter how you slice it.

Take it off and you will notice the hit on your stam sustain.

StaticWave

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

[...]

NB currently has access to both Major + Minor Expedition and a 4s snare cleanse/immunity that gives a free dodge roll every few seconds.


[...]

You only get the free dodge after taking 10 direct hit so effectively you never get it for free

Light attacks are direct damage, and most people weave them. So yes, if you don’t roll dodge for 5 seconds, the next time you roll dodge it will be free.

And that’s the beauty of this skill. In a 5 heavy build in No CP, your roll dodge costs 4k+ stam. Now make that free and see how NB can be in heavy armor and still have decent sustain

silver1surfer69

The only way to deal with this is to build your own NB. When there are only NBs running around in pvp we have balance becuase it will be the only class.

Galeriano

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

[...]

NB currently has access to both Major + Minor Expedition and a 4s snare cleanse/immunity that gives a free dodge roll every few seconds.


[...]

You only get the free dodge after taking 10 direct hit so effectively you never get it for free

Well no - direct AoE damage counts towards the proc. You can't dodge direct AoE damage. The free dodge roll is a free dodge roll no matter how you slice it.

Take it off and you will notice the hit on your stam sustain.

To be fair not using this ability vs using it is really not that big change is sustain. Plenty of dodge based nightblades is not using phantasmal escape because well fitted+medium armor does good enough job.

StaticWave

Galeriano wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

[...]

NB currently has access to both Major + Minor Expedition and a 4s snare cleanse/immunity that gives a free dodge roll every few seconds.


[...]

You only get the free dodge after taking 10 direct hit so effectively you never get it for free

Well no - direct AoE damage counts towards the proc. You can't dodge direct AoE damage. The free dodge roll is a free dodge roll no matter how you slice it.

Take it off and you will notice the hit on your stam sustain.

To be fair not using this ability vs using it is really not that big change is sustain. Plenty of dodge based nightblades is not using phantasmal escape because well fitted+medium armor does good enough job.

Yea but the problem arises when a heavy armor NB in 6 impen/reinforced and Rally Cry can still roll dodge for free every 5 seconds lol.

Like we all know a NB in heavy and zero well fitted shouldnt be able to have free dodge rolls, but they can because Phantasmal Escape

JanTanhide

Stop the Nerf Train!

katorga

A lot of NB skills are the most overloaded in the game.

The fact that I can refresh my important buffs passively, and not wasting a GCD, is very strong. Almost like wearing Oakensoul, but without having to lose the second bar.

@StaticWave post with the build stats nails it. For any given set configuration, NB will be 30-40% more powerful than another class running the same sets.

Shadowy Disguise is so strong, it doesn't matter if you get revealed, you cast it for the buffs. Even if you put ramping cost on it, it won't matter because the buffs will last longer than 4s.