Regarding the last update

Trundik

ToT puts too much favor to agent cards. It was before update 40 and now it gets even worse. Rhajin deck was great, I play with it a lot.

But now those 4 point agents within this deck have more hitpoints. They are cheap and its honestly not fun, when your opponent gets two of them in first two rounds and then set both to field. Then you have zero perspective to win, bc whole your resources in next two rounds will be spend to get rid of them and your opponent will buy new and best cards and you can't us anything including treasure patron. I don't know maybe designer of that changes doesn't play the game, but really random on beginning was and is biggest problem here. Latest changes make it less possible to overcome. I just surrendered when rate was 4-2, because situation above in 3rd round. Two agents, both 2 hp and +2 gold. I have single 1 str card and nothing except psijik patron to hit them. +4 gold, Karl in hands of my oppo and -4 each round in mine. Such powerfull cards shouldn't be worth that low. Undo it for sake of healthy mind please.

Also undo Hlaalu 5 point cards rwork that now can buy 6 point card instead of 5. This is OP. that 5 to 6 shift makes huge, balance crushing difference. Powerfull cards like that shouldn't be available in early rounds and price of five makes it available. When your oppo get it, while you are not - thats all gg, you can surrender.

[Snip]


[Edited thread title and post for inappropriate content/baiting]

SeaGtGruff

Trundik wrote: »

Also undo Hlaalu 5 point cards rwork that now can buy 6 point card instead of 5. This is OP. that 5 to 6 shift makes huge, balance crushing difference. Powerfull cards like that shouldn't be available in early rounds and price of five makes it available. When your oppo get it, while you are not - thats all gg, you can surrender.

I actually like this change, although it took me by surprise because I didn't notice it until the NPC started grabbing up 6-coin cards with it. I used to dislike that card before, because if I bought it then chances were I'd never get to use it to grab anything good, so I used to actively avoid buying it-- except then the NPC would buy it and miraculously be able to use it to grab up some great cards before I had a chance to buy them. Now it's actually worth buying, in my opinion.

Trundik

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Trundik wrote: »

Also undo Hlaalu 5 point cards rwork that now can buy 6 point card instead of 5. This is OP. that 5 to 6 shift makes huge, balance crushing difference. Powerfull cards like that shouldn't be available in early rounds and price of five makes it available. When your oppo get it, while you are not - thats all gg, you can surrender.

I actually like this change, although it took me by surprise because I didn't notice it until the NPC started grabbing up 6-coin cards with it. I used to dislike that card before, because if I bought it then chances were I'd never get to use it to grab anything good, so I used to actively avoid buying it-- except then the NPC would buy it and miraculously be able to use it to grab up some great cards before I had a chance to buy them. Now it's actually worth buying, in my opinion.

Buddy that is a problem. You can't make all cards strong. Yes, you can like it. And sure you will because card become better. But specially you shouldn't make cheap cards strong, because there is crap cards around and that card become game changer. Its available in first round and allows you to have free core cards later (most of them are 6 point worth). Do you need a gamechanger in first round? No, you don't. This is big NO for anyone who still want to see players playing ToT. Noone wants to play 1 round lottery.

As for previous that card version I would say that it was good enough. With 50/50 chance it allows you to buy some 5 point good cards. If there is no such cards in tavern, its not successful, but if there is such cards it could be good. It depends. But for 5 poin card it have good enough impact. You can just feed patron with it later or use as combo for another yellow card. In early game it takes place of 1 or 2 coin card, which means almost any contract card will be sold to you with discount in that way, or you just change this card for another. In hlaalu strategy logic it was good for its price. This logic presume that you will sacrifice yellow cards to patron. Now its as good as 6point agent, because requiers no another card to use. Again reason why I call it bad change its not its effect, but fact that its available from first round to buy and with very high chances will become gamechanger. Smooth game flow means more opportunities to change its direction, to use your mind and win thanks to it. Quick progress to late game means opposite. Ability to get free 6 poin cards will speed up game flow and makes it favor just luck of being able to buy that good card in first round. > Game loosing its sence.

Necrotech_Master

i actually feel like the hp on agent cards is meaningless in most cases because so much stuff 1 shots them regardless of hp

black sacrament - 1 shot 1 agent
the cart one (dont recall the name) - 1 shot 2 agents
jarring lullaby + upgrade - 1 shot 2 agents
pounce and profit + upgrade - 1 shot 1 agent as combo 2
psijic patron - 1 shot 1 agent for 4 coins

take the knight commander upgrade from pelin deck, it has 5 hp and a combo 2 which heals the agent, i have maybe seen this combo bonus take effect once ever since tribute was released because the majority of anti-agent cards are 1 shots

the only real tactic with agents is ones that have taunt vs ones that dont, as that will limit what the opponent can target with those 1 shots

Trundik

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i actually feel like the hp on agent cards is meaningless in most cases because so much stuff 1 shots them regardless of hp

black sacrament - 1 shot 1 agent
the cart one (dont recall the name) - 1 shot 2 agents
jarring lullaby + upgrade - 1 shot 2 agents
pounce and profit + upgrade - 1 shot 1 agent as combo 2
psijic patron - 1 shot 1 agent for 4 coins

take the knight commander upgrade from pelin deck, it has 5 hp and a combo 2 which heals the agent, i have maybe seen this combo bonus take effect once ever since tribute was released because the majority of anti-agent cards are 1 shots

the only real tactic with agents is ones that have taunt vs ones that dont, as that will limit what the opponent can target with those 1 shots

All you talking except psijic patron isn't available in early game. In early game buying ability is main thing what you must care about and there is no rhajin dudes around, only 1 or 2 gold cards. Psijic patron makes you waste 4 of 5 or 4 of 6 your gold to hit agent, while in same turn you can't use treasure chest patron. It means literally what I wrote above: your opponent will have +gold agents and will buy new cards with increasd buying ability, while you won't buy anything using psijic and won't rise your buying ability at all (5-4 =1, so you can't buy 2 point cards for example). Affitional gold from agents at one side and suffering at another will cause great impact on game result. To deal with them you will need some strenght card, but there could be none at all if there is no str patron or none in tavern, while there is one. That agent gives +2 gold each round. If you won't shot him down asap, you loose. When he had 1 hp you could more or less deal with him with str 1 card, but now you can't. Also even if you have str card it may take two or 3 rounds before you get it rolled out.

To be clear I use rhajin in every game since I got him. Its one of two best non-random but brain-depended decks. And that 4 point agents was good before changes for its price, specially if you build rhajin combos. Bc agents hanging around help with that task. They also drain resources from your opponent, which is very important in beginning (well thats in case that you deal with them somehow). As rhajin user I know that this boost is op so I bring it here.

Necrotech_Master

i use rahjin all the time too, its part of the reason ive still maintained 95% win rate against the npcs lol

im just saying from my experience, its already too easy to kill agents without regard of how much health the agent has

you could give an agent 10 health and it would still be instant killed by a 2 cost black sacrament contract card

there have been times the npc has gotten 1-2 jarring lullabys and its nearly impossible to keep agents on the field because of that

Trundik

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i use rahjin all the time too, its part of the reason ive still maintained 95% win rate against the npcs lol

im just saying from my experience, its already too easy to kill agents without regard of how much health the agent has

you could give an agent 10 health and it would still be instant killed by a 2 cost black sacrament contract card

there have been times the npc has gotten 1-2 jarring lullabys and its nearly impossible to keep agents on the field because of that

Sigh. Black sacrament can help indeed, but lets discuss things that not have brilliant luck in core (sacrament appears in tavern exactly when you need it and wasn't removed by opponent). Its just 1 card which sometimes appears in tavern and its gone after using. Lets take for example that your opponent will have card to remove it from tavern. Chances are not even equal, bc there is more cards that can do that, than two, which actually can hit agents.

p.s.
Npcs can't play it properly anyway, its hard to loose for human. They are good only with orgnum, but its bc orgnum is so bad designed that even brainless npc can win with it.

Trundik

Lol I got it.

Today one person complained in chat about 3 things in same time what he dislike in ToT. That game is too random he said. I told him to play rhajin, because it should help him with making it less random. Then he said that matches are too long and rhajin is worst patron, because gam will be longer with it. Another person agreed with that resolution.

Now I just read about Hermius mora patron and mr Carlson can wrote here for himself:

John: When we examined the game state of recent Tales of Tribute releases, we knew it was time to add a deck that focused on fast games and raw power instead of calculated action sequences.

Last phrase is pure gold. Literally it means that this patron is designed to satisfy demand of people who don't want to think too much and want to play fast. Sequences and consequences pretty similar here you know, like in chess. But those people and people who complain about random in ToT are same people Being not random and fast in same time that is two opposite demands. And then I get that recent disbalance in ToT is intended. They just listen and targeting exactly these people.... Which is pretty sad fact.

But guess what was third thing the guy had complain about? Right, it was Hermius Mora

Personofsecrets

Judging card balance on NPC play is completely inappropriate.

Trundik wrote: »

Lol I got it.

Today one person complained in chat about 3 things in same time what he dislike in ToT. That game is too random he said. I told him to play rhajin, because it should help him with making it less random. Then he said that matches are too long and rhajin is worst patron, because gam will be longer with it. Another person agreed with that resolution.

Now I just read about Hermius mora patron and mr Carlson can wrote here for himself:

John: When we examined the game state of recent Tales of Tribute releases, we knew it was time to add a deck that focused on fast games and raw power instead of calculated action sequences.

Last phrase is pure gold. Literally it means that this patron is designed to satisfy demand of people who don't want to think too much and want to play fast. Sequences and consequences pretty similar here you know, like in chess. But those people and people who complain about random in ToT are same people Being not random and fast in same time that is two opposite demands. And then I get that recent disbalance in ToT is intended. They just listen and targeting exactly these people.... Which is pretty sad fact.

But guess what was third thing the guy had complain about? Right, it was Hermius Mora

Yea, I saw that too. I couldn't have been more disgusted. The frayed rope holding onto any respect that I had for the game design industry groaned and snapped like crackling thunder.

What's also funny is that, for the most part, the designers DIDN'T SUCCEED at making a patron which sped up the game. Games where Mora adds options to player's decks creates weird game states which lead to additional calculation. Not only that, but the deck is incredibly single-dimensional compared to the other decks except for maybe Sorcerer King.

Mora couldn't have been a bigger departure from the more thoughtful lines of player that were built in to the game via Almalexia's original card pool. They could have just balanced the 10 or so problem cards and the game would have been greatly improved. Instead, they seem to think that balance means that "everyone get's broken cards" and they broke several cards in nasty ways. Quite honestly, I'm appalled by this type of thinking.

And can we even say that they take the game seriously and will nurture it into something amazing from a more general point of view when ignoring the terrible festering card balance? That answer is no because there remain easy to fix quality of life issues, they seemingly accidentally roll back a number of changes at random during the most recent update, they don't seem even capable of having fruitful communication here with those of us who care the most while ignoring including important updates into patch notes, and there continues to even be an incorrectly worded effect. It's all too a little haphazzard and I no longer expect great things to come.

Personofsecrets

I have a couple of more things to say...

A home has been found in casual play because designers have appealed too much to casual play. Therefore casual play que times are usuallly instant. I do not have the patience to sit in the 3 to 7 minute ranked que for any more times than is necessary to get season rewards.

Within casual play, I just got Morad where the opponent added Knight Commander to our decks on their first turn. Eventually they just quit still early on because I abuse the Knight Commander to hide another agent.

When designers appeal to casual players, they don't make the game better for casual players, but do make it worse for everyone.

My next game was against someone who is regularly forced to play against me in unranked. I choose to make it a Rajhiin game because we have all gold giving starter cards and if I do get a 5 cost Pounce/Grand first turn, then I basically win. Instead I get a customs seizure first turn. The second turn I get another Customs Seizure. Because I have virtually won the game at this point via what will be sheer economic force, I press the Rajhiin button on my 3rd turn and the opponent immediately quits. Such balance. Such fun.

When designers appeal to casual players, they don't make the game better for casual players, but do make it worse for everyone.