Necro in pvp

seventy_kg

Necro has been by far the worst pvp class for a while, this class is missing way too many things to be even viable in pvp

major sorcery/brutality, major breach, a decent spammable, on-command cc, just to name a few things Necro is missing

not to mention blastbone is a "I'll hit the target when I'm in a good mood but half of the time I'll stand there and do nothing" type of skill

honestly when you compare blastbone with merciless resolve, or compare scythe with concealed weapon, you'd think nightblade is a pay to win class

at least make Necro decent, you'll see 30 nb and 20 dk before you see one Necro in cyrodiil

SandandStars

it’s true

don’t hold your breath for pvp help with necro though

picking next month’s dye colors is a higher priority

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's PvP related.

Thank you for your understanding

CameraBeardThePirate

OK first: I completely agree that necro needs a lot. It lacks basic tools that every other class has, the corpse consumption gameplay is an active hindrance to the class, and far too many abilities are, simply put, garbage.

However, I'd like to address Blastbones. People tend to overexaggerate just how bad Blastbones is. Since the change to make it leap at 28 meters out, it really isn't that bad anymore. It has the single highest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (and that's before scaling from Stalking). In the majority of content, the AI pathing isn't bad at all. Where the ability starts to break down is in massive Zerg-y fights or fights with a lot of line of sight. This is no different than a lot of other abilities.

Should/could Blastbones' tracking be improved? Absolutely. But I just want to throw a word of caution out there that changing blastbones from the ground up like a lot of players suggest could hurt the class more than it helps. As is, blastbones is one of the only things propping the class up - especially in the damage department.

Twohothardware

They need to rework the class spammables for both Necro and Warden. Skulls and birds are slow, easy to dodge, clunky to weave, and don’t deal enough damage. They’re form over function.

SandandStars

Yes. Dozens of threads state that skulls and birds are too slow for pvp. Slow to the point that they are 100% useless and no one ever uses them.

Been seeing posts on this for years.

Apparently speeding them up, just to the point where they could even land, occasionally, in pvp, is not an option.

2 utterly gimped, integral (class spammable) skills amid a pile of imbalanced chaos.

Udrath

Doesn’t do to bad with a standard dizzy swing build. It’s pretty decent now with the change too ultimate cost on colossus. Beckoning armor is an underrated ability also at catching people trying to kite.

Biggest problem with the class is the passives, they’re all pretty terrible. Be nice if the spirit mender did damage to enemies and healed you for damage caused, and the disease damage tether worked on 1 player with a shorter duration to use the small delayed burst.

Twohothardware

Necro needs Major Sorcery/Brutality tied into one of its main skills, so you’re not giving up precious bar space to slot crap skills like Entropy from the Mages Guild.

The main class spamable Skulls needs sped up and the damage buffed. It’s clunky in rotation in PvE and too slow to land in PvP.

Necro needs a reworked CC. The current options are not even worth slotting. I’d like to see Grave Grasp replaced with what that one Monster Set does, where it knocks the enemy up in the air with the necro-looking hand.

The graveyard skill also needs rework because the class source of Major Breach is tied to it, but yet no one is running it in PvP. The AOE damage is too little, and it’s stationary with no snare. It should have like a 50–70% snare on it.

Zabulus

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's PvP related.

Thank you for your understanding

Thx for this usefull post.

seventy_kg

put merciless resolve on any class and they'll become the new meta

CameraBeardThePirate

seventy_kg wrote: »

put merciless resolve on any class and they'll become the new meta

Here's the thing, and it may be an unpopular opinion:

Spec bow may be slightly overtuned right now, but rather than nerfing it, ZOS should look at toning back the countless other things Nightblade has going for it. Nightblade is a burst class. If their burst combo (Spec Bow) doesn't kill people, the class ceases to function. It puts nightblade into a weird place where it's either going to feel horrendous on the receiving end of a nightblade or feel horrendous to play as a nightblade, with very little room for a middle ground.

Udrath

I been messing around on a magicka necro and the class doesn’t do to bad. Somethings I learned is use sets and potions that reduce skill slot bloat and reduce the amount of buttons to press. Always feels like I’m missing uptime on an ability in fights so Chudan and spell power pots go a long way and help slot better skills.

They also can wear 5 light armor and do well because they have the ability to take 20% reduced damage. Undeath counters them hard since they lack an execute. Their combo is hard to land but really strong, blastbones > flameclench & colossus > force pulse spam

JerBearESO

I would rather see something unique added to skele summon. Everyone asking for major brut/sorc.... We can get that already! Minor would add actual power to the class. Could also consider major courage or force.

Also, just a heads up our spirit mender is now broken.... It often bugs and fails to heal now, so let's get some attention on that please @ZOS_Kevin

YandereGirlfriend

Another of the huge problems with Blastbones is that it is easily CC'd (which will 99% mean that it will decompose and die without doing anything, all the while preventing you from casting a replacement instance). Imagine if a Spec Bow or Shalks proc could be CC'd by a random zone player spamming Bombard or be snared by Oils, Caltrops, etc.

Necro needs a bunch of things but also can we please add execute scaling to Scythe. It is too obvious not to make that change.

Urzigurumash

JerBearESO wrote: »

I would rather see something unique added to skele summon. Everyone asking for major brut/sorc.... We can get that already! Minor would add actual power to the class. Could also consider major courage or force.

Also, just a heads up our spirit mender is now broken.... It often bugs and fails to heal now, so let's get some attention on that please @ZOS_Kevin

We can get all those too tho

Aranax1914

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OK first: I completely agree that necro needs a lot. It lacks basic tools that every other class has, the corpse consumption gameplay is an active hindrance to the class, and far too many abilities are, simply put, garbage.

However, I'd like to address Blastbones. People tend to overexaggerate just how bad Blastbones is. Since the change to make it leap at 28 meters out, it really isn't that bad anymore. It has the single highest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (and that's before scaling from Stalking). In the majority of content, the AI pathing isn't bad at all. Where the ability starts to break down is in massive Zerg-y fights or fights with a lot of line of sight. This is no different than a lot of other abilities.

Should/could Blastbones' tracking be improved? Absolutely. But I just want to throw a word of caution out there that changing blastbones from the ground up like a lot of players suggest could hurt the class more than it helps. As is, blastbones is one of the only things propping the class up - especially in the damage department.

I agree with you. But you said it yourself blastbones is one of the only things propping the class up. It is basically the only GOOD pvp skill the class has (excluding when it doesnt work which although is rare still feels awful). But, If they intend to buff necro or rework it i wouldnt mind a rework of the ability if they properly compensate it somewhere else so the class doesnt feel enslaved to the ability. Legit when in pvp it feels like my only purpose is to give this dude life, and if they so wish to hit the guy im hitting (which they usually do since you know i gave em life) i am extremely thankful and relieved. Theres also the fact that BB is legit one of the most readable source of incoming damage in the game; and with it being the ONLY good necro ability, lining up bursts feels extremely horrible for a necro.

The class shouldnt feel like this. The actual necromancer needs to be the powerhouse not their summons. I should be exploiting, commanding, and benefiting from these pets to do what i want ommitting ANY sort of inconsistency even if its rare. The class needs more AGENCY.

Aranax1914

I would rather see something unique added to skele summon. Everyone asking for major brut/sorc.... We can get that already! Minor would add actual power to the class. Could also consider major courage or force.

Hard agree. Minor sorc/brut would be really good for the class. Thematically aswell if ZOS doesnt want to give necro a major brut/sorc its fine just give minor. Can place the buff on the dismember passive and bam necro is already much better in skirmishes and 1v1s.

CameraBeardThePirate

Aranax1914 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OK first: I completely agree that necro needs a lot. It lacks basic tools that every other class has, the corpse consumption gameplay is an active hindrance to the class, and far too many abilities are, simply put, garbage.

However, I'd like to address Blastbones. People tend to overexaggerate just how bad Blastbones is. Since the change to make it leap at 28 meters out, it really isn't that bad anymore. It has the single highest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (and that's before scaling from Stalking). In the majority of content, the AI pathing isn't bad at all. Where the ability starts to break down is in massive Zerg-y fights or fights with a lot of line of sight. This is no different than a lot of other abilities.

Should/could Blastbones' tracking be improved? Absolutely. But I just want to throw a word of caution out there that changing blastbones from the ground up like a lot of players suggest could hurt the class more than it helps. As is, blastbones is one of the only things propping the class up - especially in the damage department.

I agree with you. But you said it yourself blastbones is one of the only things propping the class up. It is basically the only GOOD pvp skill the class has (excluding when it doesnt work which although is rare still feels awful). But, If they intend to buff necro or rework it i wouldnt mind a rework of the ability if they properly compensate it somewhere else so the class doesnt feel enslaved to the ability. Legit when in pvp it feels like my only purpose is to give this dude life, and if they so wish to hit the guy im hitting (which they usually do since you know i gave em life) i am extremely thankful and relieved. Theres also the fact that BB is legit one of the most readable source of incoming damage in the game; and with it being the ONLY good necro ability, lining up bursts feels extremely horrible for a necro.

The class shouldnt feel like this. The actual necromancer needs to be the powerhouse not their summons. I should be exploiting, commanding, and benefiting from these pets to do what i want ommitting ANY sort of inconsistency even if its rare. The class needs more AGENCY.

Absolutely agree with most/all of this. I just dislike the notion that blastbones should be completely changed into a full pet or moved away from a burst ability.

It could absolutely receive cool and exciting changes (a DoT added to one of the morphs would be awesome, thematic, and would actually give the DoT passive use in PvP, for example). It should not be changed into something akin to Warden Bear or Volatile Familiar. Doing so would gut Necro's identity even further.

The class needs more damage, period. Gutting Graverobber (after already nerfing Harmony) was a terrible decision by the devs that showed a lack of understanding in regards to Necro. The class needed that extra burst to function.

Whether they add back some damage on graverobber, rework the tethers to be less stationary, rework the Skeletal Mage/Archer to be functional (why in oblivion can't we command them?), or add something new, the class definitely needs something to supplement the damage from Blastbones - that doesn't mean blastbones needs to be entirely reworked though.

Alharion

I've been saying it from the start, well, I'm not the only one to see it, this class is extremely toxic for the balance of pvp between its infamous immobilisation and its super-powerful beam, it's a class that's clearly anti-game, you can't do anything with no CP, there's no point in even trying to play against an arcanist, because they always win. It feels like a hack'n slash now...

One solution to make it a little less execrable would be to make it so that the beam can only target one person and no longer allow the player to direct the beam as they see fit, it's an MMORPG not a hack'n slash!

The templar is also indigestible with his spam, and his finisher.

When you see the archer's slow attacks (for example) and the abusive spamming of certain spells, there's a big problem with the devs' thinking...

CameraBeardThePirate

Alharion wrote: »

I've been saying it from the start, well, I'm not the only one to see it, this class is extremely toxic for the balance of pvp between its infamous immobilisation and its super-powerful beam, it's a class that's clearly anti-game, you can't do anything with no CP, there's no point in even trying to play against an arcanist, because they always win. It feels like a hack'n slash now...

One solution to make it a little less execrable would be to make it so that the beam can only target one person and no longer allow the player to direct the beam as they see fit, it's an MMORPG not a hack'n slash!

The templar is also indigestible with his spam, and his finisher.

When you see the archer's slow attacks (for example) and the abusive spamming of certain spells, there's a big problem with the devs' thinking...

Not only are you in a post about Necros whilst complaining about Arcanist (and Templar lol), but complaining about Fatecarver being OP in PvP is a weird take that I can't imagine many people will agree with.

OtarTheMad

Alharion wrote: »

I've been saying it from the start, well, I'm not the only one to see it, this class is extremely toxic for the balance of pvp between its infamous immobilisation and its super-powerful beam, it's a class that's clearly anti-game, you can't do anything with no CP, there's no point in even trying to play against an arcanist, because they always win. It feels like a hack'n slash now...

One solution to make it a little less execrable would be to make it so that the beam can only target one person and no longer allow the player to direct the beam as they see fit, it's an MMORPG not a hack'n slash!

The templar is also indigestible with his spam, and his finisher.

When you see the archer's slow attacks (for example) and the abusive spamming of certain spells, there's a big problem with the devs' thinking...

As Beard said… this is a necro thread. Honestly though I disagree with your opinion that on the immobilization and beam Arcanist has. The immobilization is only an issue because of skill delay and major lag, same as other stuns and fears. The beam is insanely avoidable as well. It hits hard for sure but needs things to line up perfectly for it to work.

Templar beam is fine too, just line of sight it or use a knock back or fear ability on the caster and you’re fine.

Necro is at the bottom in pretty much every category in the game and I would rather ZOS use any time they have on class balance on them.

TechMaybeHic

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Alharion wrote: »

I've been saying it from the start, well, I'm not the only one to see it, this class is extremely toxic for the balance of pvp between its infamous immobilisation and its super-powerful beam, it's a class that's clearly anti-game, you can't do anything with no CP, there's no point in even trying to play against an arcanist, because they always win. It feels like a hack'n slash now...

One solution to make it a little less execrable would be to make it so that the beam can only target one person and no longer allow the player to direct the beam as they see fit, it's an MMORPG not a hack'n slash!

The templar is also indigestible with his spam, and his finisher.

When you see the archer's slow attacks (for example) and the abusive spamming of certain spells, there's a big problem with the devs' thinking...

As Beard said… this is a necro thread. Honestly though I disagree with your opinion that on the immobilization and beam Arcanist has. The immobilization is only an issue because of skill delay and major lag, same as other stuns and fears. The beam is insanely avoidable as well. It hits hard for sure but needs things to line up perfectly for it to work.

Templar beam is fine too, just line of sight it or use a knock back or fear ability on the caster and you’re fine.

Necro is at the bottom in pretty much every category in the game and I would rather ZOS use any time they have on class balance on them.

I'm guessing they can't just cloak out of the beams and are on a rampage about it. Probably thinks NB doesn't do enough damage also.

Aranax1914

I just dislike the notion that blastbones should be completely changed into a full pet or moved away from a burst ability.

Yea no I agree. Necro doesnt need to have pets akin to sorc and warden, as it ties into the thematic fleeting nature of corpses and the mechanical gameplay regarding dropping corpses and stuff. Its cool.

IMO i think they need to buff the skelatal archer/mage and make them actually useful and interesting while fully rework some of the other straight up boring/unusable skills like mystic siphon or that one ability that summons those patches on the floor (i dont remember its name), and honestly even bone totem (like a smaller morph rework or smth). I have mixed feelings about boneyard tbh. I dont want the class to be exclusively built to be a bomber and that ability is basically just that.

The passives need some work aswell. Death knell is decent on paper but is extremely impractical. Rapid rot is so boring and doesnt even fit the class abilities and its playstyle well. Dismember is a joke, last gasp is a joke, and health avarice, curative curse and near-death experience are all below-average. I have mixed feelings about death gleaning but ill honestly give it a pass.

JerBearESO

Would love if necro tethers could be targetable tethers. If I could put that damage tether ON someone it would be super cool and maybe worth a slot.

Also want to vote to not overhaul blastbones. That single skill is why I love necro. It would be nice if we could have more of a army of undead vibe though as an option, so changing one of the morphs to attack for awhile before exploding, and then getting the summon blastbones ult to work, would be cool.

Alternatively, making summon skele something where we can summon more than one at a time would be awesome, maybe 3 max, but we would want them to be a little smaller so they don't clutter things. I want to cammand an army! Hahaha