Players lacking manners in dungeons

SkaraMinoc

Soarora wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

When a new dungeon comes out, I solo it first and complete the quest at my own pace including learning boss mechanics and completing all the secrets. Then I go join dungeon queue.

Dungeon queue is for completing dailies and farming gear. You can say hello at the beginning or ask for the quest but if you're not speedrunning the dungeon then you're slowing others down. Please respect other player's time.

Dungeon queue is for completing dungeons. Normal queue may be known to be the spot for gear farms and dailies, but not so much veteran. There's a difference between running as a group and sprinting ahead without a care in the world. Heck, I slot rapids on one of my tanks in trash-- but I run veterans. I avoid normals for the same reason most people complain about normals: the speedrunning.

I meant normal dungeon queue for speedrunning dailies and gear. Vet DLC dungeons I would just run at a regular pace unless group wants to go for achievements.

Vulkunne

derkaiserliche wrote: »

So during the event (and before too) i was surprised how many players are lacking basic manners. So i would like to remind some of you, that manners are important for the future of the game and the community of Eso. For Dungeons i suggest the following. Your opinion or different views on it the topic is welcome of course:

- Greet at the beginning
- Inform the other players if you need the quest, so the group knows you might fall behind or need specific quest bosses
- Dont aggro all minions and rush to the next boss without communication. Noone wants to "wipe", just so you get through your falkreach dungeon faster by 2 minutes
- Dont play half-afk - everyone can notice quickly, if you just do one autoattack in every fight, then switching to youtube again to watch a video
- Dont fakeheal in Dungeons, where the group needs heal. (Some dlcs and most veterans)
- Dont fakeheal with low cps - if you arent even a good dd, you should not dare to queue as a fakeheal
- Saying goodbye or thanking for the run would be nice at the end

Hello OP.

So, all of this sounds good. I have a question though, where does this end?

Let's stop and set aside our feelings for just a min and think about this. There are probably about a hundred (or more) different rules we could come up with. Now advance this a step further and say we force these rules on everyone. Will it fix the problem or will this by itself instead create more problems?

I have a solution to this. Its called leadership and its sorely missing in society today. Confidence is kin to leadership so being Confident, being a cool customer probably will go further in the end, rather than ZOS or some other smug person enforcing their rules on everyone.

Don't you see? By trying to force everyone to comply with what you think, in essence you are demonstrating the same bad behavior. I say ultimately this is a matter of choice and you, I, everyone can choose whether or not to run with people or not. Or you can be strong and confident and you know what... others may just pick-up on that and your problems will go away on their own.

oicero

How about fake tanks with 17k health pool joining on random and
1- As soon as fakey boi, sees it is one of the pain in the ass DLC dungeons which even mini bosses one shot you if you don't have a tank, he leaves and ruins for others. As you know most likely you won't be able to find the forth. And beside of this if you're a DPS, you queued like 15-20min in a good day to find one and because of this *** you have to wait another 20.

or how about a fake dps
2- Wields the "Pale Order" ring and I try to heal that *** but he doesn't get any so I realise he wields that crap in a group and keeps dying because during some mechanics no mob to hit, pots on CD, magicka/stamina pools are empty, takes damage over and over with that health pool. He even dps 5k-ish... and the other dps is bursting his ass to cover...

As being told there are questers or newbies all the time. You can't just run like it's the last day of your life. When I see one of those (he even skips all the bosses to run to the last one, first I vote kick, if it doesn't work, I leave.

What I see in ESO all the people in a rush, in a hurry somehow. Everyone runs like crazy people including me.

ZoS can solve this IF they want. There always be anarchists or "chaotic evil" if you will.

It's all about respect the others.

Jaraal

Blood_again wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Posting a list of your grievances / preferences for how people should act in a random dungeon unfortunately isn't going to have any effect, one (of many) reasons being the infinitesimally tiny chance that that the random strangers the dungeon finder groups you with will have even seen this post.

I double this. Intersection of {Forum visitors who read this post} and {Players who you met in dungeons} is just tiny.

Don't forget the third variable of {Forum visitors who read this post and are actually motivated to make changes to their behavior by it.}

Sarannah

Sadly there is no communicating with these types of players, the speedrunners and the fake roles. As the very act of these types of players is selfish, otherwise they wouldn't sign up for a fake role or speedrun in the first place. Fake roles know they are not signing up for their appropriate roles, so they choose to be selfish and skip the line while not caring about how it may impact other players negatively, so communicating with these types of players won't help. Speedrunners are speedrunning for the simple fact noone can stop them from doing so, they do not care one bit about the other three players they ended up with or how they negatively impact them, the very act of speedrunning is a selfish choice.

This is why in groupplay we need clear rulesets and boundaries! That way everyone can have a good experience in groupplay.

PS: If I do ever quit this game, it will be for how the MMO part is (dis)functioning.
PPS: Fake roles and speedrunners shouldn't be playing MMO's, they just want a dungeon to consist of just one boss in a room and load into that room right away. That is not an MMO, nor how dungeons work.

Calastir

I've done so many rnd's, I often give away all the gear I collected at the end of a run.
But since most people just leave without a word, I often don't even get a chance to offer this.

So people's rudeness is even a detriment to themselves.

kaushad

If you want people to talk in a place where half the group will run ahead anyway, establish a shorthand. Yes, I'll type paragraphs on forum, because nobody is waiting for me to stop and play. As for fake roles, that's on the developers. We have to choose DPS, tank or healer, even if none are true.

wilykcat

kaushad wrote: »

If you want people to talk in a place where half the group will run ahead anyway, establish a shorthand. Yes, I'll type paragraphs on forum, because nobody is waiting for me to stop and play. As for fake roles, that's on the developers. We have to choose DPS, tank or healer, even if none are true.

Guild Wars 2 dungeons don't really have those 3 roles required.
They can remove roles. Solves queue times, can easily replace players who leave dungeon, anyone is grouped up and complete the dungeon, all classes are kind of hybrid based on the builds/abilities equipped. There is no need for a specific healer, tank, and dps roles for queuing. Also players in ESO don't really do what the role says to do anyways. The dungeons and dungeon finder can do some re-work. Maybe its time for ESO to do something like that. Its an idea.

Blood_again

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Dungeon queue is for completing dailies and farming gear.

School bus is for golf players, because I just said it, aha.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

You can say hello at the beginning or ask for the quest but if you're not speedrunning the dungeon then you're slowing others down. Please respect other player's time.

You actually require respecting your time while you don't care about others' one.
Group play means your time is others' time too. Your group mates spend their time on queue and grouping with you the same as you do.
The moment you're convinced that the queue is your own and group mates must play the only way you think proper is the moment where group play ends.

One day you'll realise that non-premade fastrunning is the decease that chokes the dungeon community. You push newcomers out of dungeoning instead of helping and attracting them.
Honestly, even those elitists who tried to dictate their builds and tactics in agressive manner were better. They at least communicated with group mates, not just took them as a furniture in group.

You wanna fastrun? Premade your group and nobody will slow you down.

Calastir

wilykcat wrote: »

There is no need for a specific healer, tank, and dps roles for queuing. Also players in ESO don't really do what the role says to do anyways.

Some dungeons in ESO can hardly be finished without an actual tank and healer combo. People should perform their part or receive a mild form of penalty for wasting other player's time and effort like a queuing penalty. Hopefully that will motivate them to slot at least a taunt or heal next time.

wilykcat

It was a suggestion. I was talking about how guild wars 2 does their dungeons and queuing. Then mentioned it won't be a bad idea for eso to do some dungeon and LFG dungeon queues rework.

Blood_again

Calastir wrote: »

People should perform their part or receive a mild form of penalty for wasting other player's time and effort like a queuing penalty. Hopefully that will motivate them to slot at least a taunt or heal next time.

I guess that it is technically possible, but too difficult to balance.
Too strict requirements - people who learn or experiment with builds will be punished by mistake.
Too loose - fakes will exploit it anyway.

It's better to attract people, not punish.
I would vote for the fourth role in dungeon finder: Yolo. Meaning "I don't care roles".
As a result Yolos group with Yolos in 4-pack for speedrun without Tank and Heal. Non-yolos have their Tank, Heal and DDs as they hoped - good or bad ones.

Someone always scare people with "your queue time will raise" at this point.
I guess, non-yolos will breath more freely without fakes. +5 minutes to queue is not a big price for that.
Yolos will have statistically less Spindle and FG1, but they are pro, they'll manage. Also VoM with 4 Yolos are faster than FG1 with one

derkaiserliche

Thank you for the feedback guys.

I am glad to see that most of you agree with me for now. I would like to adress some points made.

1) Not everyone speaks english. --> Yes i am aware of that, but there are ways to greet someone without speaking a "foreign" language. The automatic translated greet in the white chat for example. And i prefer to see chinese symbols over nothing at all tbh.

2) Random dungeons are for random groups. --> Yes i could start asking my guildmates to join, but i still feel that if every kind person isolates themselves from the random dungeons groups, new players will only have the leftovers to play with. As a result they get a bad experience from the game and probably start behaving the same sooner or later.

3) By trying to force everyone to comply with what you think, in essence you are demonstrating the same bad behavior.
--> I think there is a big difference between manners and gamerules. I dont want to enforce rules, i want to remind people to be friendly and respectful towards others. Most of my points are pretty easy to follow and common sense for most players. So i am not demonstrating bad behaviour by telling someone to not fakeheal with 50cp. He is in the wrong to begin with.

4) The only things I communicate when in a PUG are "chest" and "Thanks for group." I'm there to run a dungeon, not to socialize.
--> Thats all i am asking for. I dont expect someone to ask me how my day is going so far. Just basic manners.


I know this topic doesnt adress most of the players, but maybe it reminds some of you, that there are people (like me), that would like to see a "hi" back at the beginning for his personal dungeon experience

mattaeus01b16_ESO

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

When a new dungeon comes out, I solo it first and complete the quest at my own pace including learning boss mechanics and completing all the secrets. Then I go join dungeon queue.

Dungeon queue is for completing dailies and farming gear. You can say hello at the beginning or ask for the quest but if you're not speedrunning the dungeon then you're slowing others down. Please respect other player's time.

You assume that everyone can solo normal dungeons? And that they want to speedrun? Respect goes both ways. And from the most that Iv seen, the ones thats running off by themselves wants the rest of the party to respect their decision to ignore everything in game and just finish... Whiles the other 3 what? Have 20 hours of game play under them? May be new to MMOs? May have absolutely no gear that matches and are still wearing what they loot? But who cares because the other 3 should respect your time and decision to speedrun?

Supreme_Atromancer

Yeah the unwritten " social " contract I keep hearing about lol. The one where the people who happen to share my values, and play like I do all signed, and the ones who disagree, or know nothing of it, didn't. It clearly enshrines my right to dictate how the content is to be played. No, you can't see it. Its in Canada.

And given the absolute validity and legitimacy of this contract, if you don't do it my way, you're wasting my time, so kindly get out of my way. Please and thank you.

Idelise

If you want good manners during dungeoning, try FFXIV. People say their greetings, and goodbyes, wait for newbies, explain tactics...
...BUT.
It's something structural, built in-game (I doubt players would do it by themselves tbh). The game incentivises positive behaviour during dungeons by giving everyone a chance to give a commendation to a player at the end of the dungeon/raid. People do want to collect said commendations to unlock titles, and maintain a mentor status - all of which come with in-game bonuses. And you need a ridic amount of said commendations in the first place, I think around 1200 to get a mentor status - which is also taken away with each expansion. So... people have the motivation to act in a positive and constructive manner, especially since everyone participating in a dungeon has only 1 commendation to give out and they CANNOT give it to the friends they are queued with (otherwise the system would be abused). The result is an occasionally unhinged but otherwise positive and friendly community. I wish the commendation system was used by more MMOs.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it discusses behavior in dungeons.

Thank you for your understanding

Dragonredux

The transmute increase to 10 is the reason for this and always has been. Normal dungeons haven't been such a dreadful experience before that got introduced. I avoid Normal Dungeons like the plague now.

Dragonredux

Idelise wrote: »

If you want good manners during dungeoning, try FFXIV. People say their greetings, and goodbyes, wait for newbies, explain tactics...
...BUT.
It's something structural, built in-game (I doubt players would do it by themselves tbh). The game incentivises positive behaviour during dungeons by giving everyone a chance to give a commendation to a player at the end of the dungeon/raid. People do want to collect said commendations to unlock titles, and maintain a mentor status - all of which come with in-game bonuses. And you need a ridic amount of said commendations in the first place, I think around 1200 to get a mentor status - which is also taken away with each expansion. So... people have the motivation to act in a positive and constructive manner, especially since everyone participating in a dungeon has only 1 commendation to give out and they CANNOT give it to the friends they are queued with (otherwise the system would be abused). The result is an occasionally unhinged but otherwise positive and friendly community. I wish the commendation system was used by more MMOs.

Too bad the actual dungeon experience is a boring as sin.

Pull 2 mob packs go to wall + pull 2 move packs go to wall + boss.

Then

Pull 2 mob packs go to wall + pull 2 move packs go to wall + boss.

Then


Pull 2 mob packs go to wall + pull 2 move packs go to wall + boss.

Copy and paste that design and you got 95% of FF14 dungeons.

svendf

Dragonredux wrote: »

Idelise wrote: »

If you want good manners during dungeoning, try FFXIV. People say their greetings, and goodbyes, wait for newbies, explain tactics...
...BUT.
It's something structural, built in-game (I doubt players would do it by themselves tbh). The game incentivises positive behaviour during dungeons by giving everyone a chance to give a commendation to a player at the end of the dungeon/raid. People do want to collect said commendations to unlock titles, and maintain a mentor status - all of which come with in-game bonuses. And you need a ridic amount of said commendations in the first place, I think around 1200 to get a mentor status - which is also taken away with each expansion. So... people have the motivation to act in a positive and constructive manner, especially since everyone participating in a dungeon has only 1 commendation to give out and they CANNOT give it to the friends they are queued with (otherwise the system would be abused). The result is an occasionally unhinged but otherwise positive and friendly community. I wish the commendation system was used by more MMOs.

Too bad the actual dungeon experience is a boring as sin.

Pull 2 mob packs go to wall + pull 2 move packs go to wall + boss.

Then

Pull 2 mob packs go to wall + pull 2 move packs go to wall + boss.

Then


Pull 2 mob packs go to wall + pull 2 move packs go to wall + boss.

Copy and paste that design and you got 95% of FF14 dungeons.

That´s a bit odd I have to say. That´s not, what I have seen playing that game from the start to Endwalker. Maybe they have changed some dungeons or the player´s you played with used that tactic.

Dungeons, trials and raids are part of the main story, which have to be done to continue the story. Class or job quest´s have bosses you have to defeat - to progress. Maybe you where grouped with some mentor´s, which job is to help you to progress, through the story and help you in anyway they can.

It´s a top ranking Mmo, which have been awarded more than once, with the community of the year award. They must do something right.

14 isn´t everyone´s cup of tea and same for ESO. We are not alike. We look for different things in a game. There is a reason, why it is placed at the top. I believe it have to do with the communication from the top manager´s to the player´s in the game.

It´s no secret - they do agree in alot with each other. The customers in 14 believe in the management of 14.

The management team have been clear from the start - they will not accept anything, which will create tensions other negative effect, which divide the community.

StackonClown

derkaiserliche wrote: »

So during the event (and before too) i was surprised how many players are lacking basic manners. So i would like to remind some of you, that manners are important for the future of the game and the community of Eso. For Dungeons i suggest the following. Your opinion or different views on it the topic is welcome of course:

- Greet at the beginning
- Inform the other players if you need the quest, so the group knows you might fall behind or need specific quest bosses
- Dont aggro all minions and rush to the next boss without communication. Noone wants to "wipe", just so you get through your falkreach dungeon faster by 2 minutes
- Dont play half-afk - everyone can notice quickly, if you just do one autoattack in every fight, then switching to youtube again to watch a video
- Dont fakeheal in Dungeons, where the group needs heal. (Some dlcs and most veterans)
- Dont fakeheal with low cps - if you arent even a good dd, you should not dare to queue as a fakeheal
- Saying goodbye or thanking for the run would be nice at the end

I normally type at the beginning - and everyone seems ok with it:

"preload: hi not questing nice job gg tyfg bye"

AvalonRanger

Just Stop to do too much nonsense fake build...that's the decent manner.

Amottica

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

Running 14 normals a day, I have seen bad players. And its tiresome.

My personal exp? I find that a good majority of the new players are being taught to scream and run threw dungeons.
Most people dont talk
For every real tank. There are 2 DPSs fake tanking... and doing noone of there jobs well.
For every real healer. There are 3 DPSs fake healer... Couldnt even manage a vigor on your bar, huh?

I can excuse low levels for not knowing... but high levels that are just there to use you to farm exp for them? Yeah, I can do without those people.

Take control of your own exp? I do... Either I leave the group if I am expected to heal, DPS and tank while the fake healer and fake tank run off and die while swinging their NERF 2handers around. Because Im not being paid to carry people threw dungeons.
Or I try to explain to them that... while its impressive on how fast they can run and that they are the only ones in ESO that I know personally that can run sooooo fast and yet die so unflamboyantly, that they might want to read the room and stick with the group. THIS usually leads them to bum-rush the the next boss and pull everyone in... Because its NOW A FEATURE! (Also, toxic as hell)

Personally, I would pick to leave if it wasnt for the fact that I just spent 10 mins in Q and I dont want to wait another 15 mins to reQ, so I can wait another 10 mins in Q, just so I can get people with the same attitude again.

Problem is, there are no checks in place for players when they join. And it will keep on happening.

Sooooo, we have endless dungeons coming out soon. Will all the good players be farming these? leaving the bad ones in Q to have to deal with each other? ... I digress

How about we put in a solo mode in these dungeons! Let them play with themselves.
Then, up Normal to a more MED base where it feels like you can actually see the mechanics before the bosses die. And forcing scrubs to do more then ruin others playing exp as a hole.

As someone who would queue as a real tank or a healer, I found the lower dps in many GF pug groups problematic. That and to many players seemed to be oblivious to obvious and easily avoidable mechanics that would one-shot them. My guild saved me by letting me know if I ran with them those kinds of issues would be nonexistent.

It is why I suggest to anyone who plans on playing ESO for a while to take the time to find a guild that fits their needs and that they fit into well. There is a guild out there for everyone except those who insist on doing all of this without a guild and roll the dice on what they get for a random group.