Tell me your thoughts on the discontinuation of development of pvp.

eternalshockcable

As you know from the letter of the director pvp developments are discontinued.
How does this make your over all gameplay experience?

TybaltKaine

Gonna need a link to that letter boss.

geonsocal

I feel very - not surprised...

DUTCH_REAPER

Link to letter please

OBJnoob

I'm kinda "meh" about it. There are bugs that need fixing and balance issues. Hopefully they continue to plug away at that. If they don't add anything new for PvP... -shrug- I'm disappointed I guess, like everyone else. Some sort've arena would've been cool. Anything that can be competitive and properly ranked.

Other than that, honestly I understand. It's an old game by now. They can't keep adding stuff forever. Having played some other similar games in the past it seems to me that PvP is never the primary goal. Building a unique character... Exploring... Going out to get gear which includes dungeons and trials... All of that is what games like this center around. And PvP is just kinda a biproduct... A fun way where you can compare your character against others.

So it was always gonna take a backseat, ya know, sad as it may be.

I mean PvP hasn't gotten anything new in a long while. So being told we're getting nothing new is just the status quo. If anything I appreciate the transparency. The real shame is the state we might be left in-- the way things are now. Is the in-combat bug ever going to be resolved? Is Ravenwatch ever going to have an official list of sets that work?

Poss

Where you getting this?

Reverb

Cite your source

Dat

eternalshockcable wrote: »

As you know from the letter of the director pvp developments are discontinued.
How does this make your over all gameplay experience?

Can't just make a claim like that and not post a link my guy.... quick Google search shows last letter from direction put at end of 2022. If there is a new one out we need the link

EmilyElizabethESO

Does anyone have a link or know if this is true?

Reverb

EmilyElizabethESO wrote: »

Does anyone have a link or know if this is true?

OP has been posting creative writing exercises quite a bit. I’ve seen no official communication to back up the statement and assume this is more of their fanfic designed to get a response from people.

However the lack of focus on pvp development is well known by those of us who pvp, without needing an official statement.

EmilyElizabethESO

Reverb wrote: »

EmilyElizabethESO wrote: »

Does anyone have a link or know if this is true?

OP has been posting creative writing exercises quite a bit. I’ve seen no official communication to back up the statement and assume this is more of their fanfic designed to get a response from people.

However the lack of focus on pvp development is well known by those of us who pvp, without needing an official statement.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was announced.

ProudMary

eternalshockcable wrote: »

As you know from the letter of the director pvp developments are discontinued.
How does this make your over all gameplay experience?

Can you or someone else please link us to this letter?

I mainly PvP as do almost everyone I play with and need to spread the word.

Credible_Joe

I think OP is referring to a statement some time ago about how major system updates & additions are on hold until the hardware & codebase rework is complete. I'm not sure where to find it, but if I recall correctly, it wasn't an indefinite moratorium on PvP development, and it wasn't limited to PvP. It's the reason why the most drastic updates we've seen for the past years have been mini-games (ToT, antiquities), classes, companions, and overland / dungeon content.

All things that they know the engine can accommodate, or that they know won't burden the engine. Things the game was designed to be expanded on, or else could run with minimal interaction with the foundational system (mini-games). This is also probably why instead of reworking classes or game mechanics to address fundamental balance and gameplay issues, they opt to balance through metric adjustments and new item sets (disclaimer, this is presumption).

The most ambitious addition they've made lately are companions, which can't be all that different from combat pets. Giving them equipment and swappable skills probably stretched their limits, but in the end it fit in the system.

As we know, the alliance war puts the most strain on the hardware. Touching it in any way that's not assured to relieve that burden in some way is probably out of the question until they can expand the scope of the engine.

PvP is my favorite aspect of this game, and I'm also disappointed in the decline in the experience in the past years. But considering all of the above, I think the only thing to do for it is wait. Hopefully the codebase rework pans out, but this late in the game's life and with so many of the original developers having moved on, I'm not holding my breath for groundbreaking developments. I'd be satisfied with optimized performance.

ProudMary

Credible_Joe wrote: »

I think OP is referring to a statement some time ago about how major system updates & additions are on hold until the hardware & codebase rework is complete. I'm not sure where to find it, but if I recall correctly, it wasn't an indefinite moratorium on PvP development, and it wasn't limited to PvP. It's the reason why the most drastic updates we've seen for the past years have been mini-games (ToT, antiquities), classes, companions, and overland / dungeon content.

All things that they know the engine can accommodate, or that they know won't burden the engine. Things the game was designed to be expanded on, or else could run with minimal interaction with the foundational system (mini-games). This is also probably why instead of reworking classes or game mechanics to address fundamental balance and gameplay issues, they opt to balance through metric adjustments and new item sets (disclaimer, this is presumption).

The most ambitious addition they've made lately are companions, which can't be all that different from combat pets. Giving them equipment and swappable skills probably stretched their limits, but in the end it fit in the system.

As we know, the alliance war puts the most strain on the hardware. Touching it in any way that's not assured to relieve that burden in some way is probably out of the question until they can expand the scope of the engine.

PvP is my favorite aspect of this game, and I'm also disappointed in the decline in the experience in the past years. But considering all of the above, I think the only thing to do for it is wait. Hopefully the codebase rework pans out, but this late in the game's life and with so many of the original developers having moved on, I'm not holding my breath for groundbreaking developments. I'd be satisfied with optimized performance.

They've been chipping away at PvP investments for 4-5 years now. It's really disappointing.

Telel

Well if some guy on the internet said it...

Joy_Division

You need an official source when the company has literally not had a developer dedicated to PvP, let alone a team, going on four years now?

I did take a break for almost two years, what exciting (or even boring) new features and content have been added in PvP that I missed? What have I not seen to have confidence that ZOS might devote resources to PvP despite not having any of its personnel assigned to that system?

CrazyKitty

ZOS' support for Cyrodiil PvP has been scaling back since 2018. It's just how it is and isn't likely to change. I'd love to be proven wrong.

DaisyRay

True or not, pvp just does not bring them any income really from what I can see. Before I joined ESO+ again (which was only for the craft bag), I went months without spending any money on ESO despite playing it. Even though it sucks, it kind of makes sense to not put a lot of money or effort into something that doesn't directly benefit the company. If they tried to add any pve type things to pvp, people would be complaining. I don't really see a way for them to do anything about it without losing out on time that could used in pve. Where the money is.

Rohamad_Ali

If pvp is discontinued, does this mean peace prevailed?

Genfe

DaisyRay wrote: »

True or not, pvp just does not bring them any income really from what I can see. Before I joined ESO+ again (which was only for the craft bag), I went months without spending any money on ESO despite playing it. Even though it sucks, it kind of makes sense to not put a lot of money or effort into something that doesn't directly benefit the company. If they tried to add any pve type things to pvp, people would be complaining. I don't really see a way for them to do anything about it without losing out on time that could used in pve. Where the money is.

This is completely false. Everyone I know from 6 years of primary pvp of playing has

All DLC
All expansions
Paid for costumes( before outfit station)
Exclusive mounts
All Classes
Any Race any Alliance
Buys Race Changes regularly
Gets the occasional Crown Crates

One friend of mine checked his bank account and about $11,000 of purchases in the last year alone.

DaisyRay

Genfe wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

True or not, pvp just does not bring them any income really from what I can see. Before I joined ESO+ again (which was only for the craft bag), I went months without spending any money on ESO despite playing it. Even though it sucks, it kind of makes sense to not put a lot of money or effort into something that doesn't directly benefit the company. If they tried to add any pve type things to pvp, people would be complaining. I don't really see a way for them to do anything about it without losing out on time that could used in pve. Where the money is.

This is completely false. Everyone I know from 6 years of primary pvp of playing has

All DLC
All expansions
Paid for costumes( before outfit station)
Exclusive mounts
All Classes
Any Race any Alliance
Buys Race Changes regularly
Gets the occasional Crown Crates

One friend of mine checked his bank account and about $11,000 of purchases in the last year alone.

1.) I didn't state this as a fact. I said from what I can see, making it my opinion based on my personal experience.
2.) I have only been playing this game for about 3 years off and on. It makes sense that my experience is not the same as yours.
3.) Everything on your list is PVE related. Thus they will have people purchasing those things even if they decided to shut PVP down for good. Not that I hope they do because I love PVP.

My point was that there is no requirement to purchase anything if you only play PVP. PVP is free, if you have the game you can play without buying anything extra. This does mean you won't buy anything, but there is little money in PVP only things. That I can think of at least. Again, just my opinion.

Akasha_Mei

Hahaha zos doesn't care about the market for acquiring titles in Cyro, that's is heavy since High Isle DLC... Lots of players have a toon for each flag, they play following the market flowing...
Zos don't care because they sell alliance change tokens, extra character tokens, etc...
System of rewards is bad in Cyro, people become transfactionals and mercenaries for coin...

jle30303

When push comes to shove... What PVP needs is *players*.

And what players who do PVP need is *a fair chance to actually enjoy some success*. In other words, the best players need to not be so powerful that they can mow through 10-20 unskilled players without consequence: if you can't take a good player down one-on-one, you should at least be able to zerg him down ten-on-one. Or possibly even five-on-one.

Some observations I would make:

(a) The fastest-moving players are simply just too blooming FAST. At running around, changing direction, teleporting to get out of range. Never mind skills, they can physically run around a player faster than that player can actually turn around on the spot. This is just silly. If someone is in front of you and some distance away, then running round to be behind you before you are able to react is not a thing they should be able to do.

(b) Enough server and connection power needs to be made available, that lag and ping are eliminated as a factor. TOTALLY. When a player hits a button to use a skill, that skill should work, at once, the way it is described.

(c) Once it is made to WORK, then comes the question of balance, and actually making it as much fun for the big majority who aren't any good, as for the small minority who are. Once it works as designed, you may then address the question of altering the design: but all the altering the design does not matter if the game does not work as designed, *however* it is designed, be the design good or bad.

(d) PVP rewards that rely on currency and progression, are by and large WAAAAY out of whack in terms of their cost. The later PVP levels are themselves too far apart in terms of Alliance Points: and there are SO MANY things that require purchase with Alliance Points or Tel Var, that the person who gets alliance points a few hundred at a time, and Tel Var a few tens at a time, and loses most of the latter to other players before getting them home, doesn't stand a chance of getting almost any of the practical rewards.

(e) A special comment of contempt can be made for the PVP food recipes. Whose idea was it to make three tiers of recipes of which the *first* tier was itself so impractically rare that you can pretty much never expect to actually find the recipe? And the second one to cost literally hundreds of thousands of Tel Var *per item* as well as for the book - AND require, and consume, a second copy of the recipe book for the first? And the third one to be literally so rare that the recipe item costs literally hundreds of millions in the mall if it's ever available at all, AND require the consumption of a second copy of the second-tier recipe at its absurd price AND a third copy of the first-tier recipe? And its ingredient is literally so rare that it is pretty much never worth the using?

Iriidius

DaisyRay wrote: »

Genfe wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

True or not, pvp just does not bring them any income really from what I can see. Before I joined ESO+ again (which was only for the craft bag), I went months without spending any money on ESO despite playing it. Even though it sucks, it kind of makes sense to not put a lot of money or effort into something that doesn't directly benefit the company. If they tried to add any pve type things to pvp, people would be complaining. I don't really see a way for them to do anything about it without losing out on time that could used in pve. Where the money is.

This is completely false. Everyone I know from 6 years of primary pvp of playing has

All DLC
All expansions
Paid for costumes( before outfit station)
Exclusive mounts
All Classes
Any Race any Alliance
Buys Race Changes regularly
Gets the occasional Crown Crates

One friend of mine checked his bank account and about $11,000 of purchases in the last year alone.

1.) I didn't state this as a fact. I said from what I can see, making it my opinion based on my personal experience.
2.) I have only been playing this game for about 3 years off and on. It makes sense that my experience is not the same as yours.
3.) Everything on your list is PVE related. Thus they will have people purchasing those things even if they decided to shut PVP down for good. Not that I hope they do because I love PVP.

My point was that there is no requirement to purchase anything if you only play PVP. PVP is free, if you have the game you can play without buying anything extra. This does mean you won't buy anything, but there is little money in PVP only things. That I can think of at least. Again, just my opinion.

3.) The things on the list are not all PvE related, most of them are independent of the kind of content you do. PvP is the best place to show your exclusive mounts, they are nowhere more used and visible than in PvP where you have long riding times, in PvE openworld you have wayshrines for long travels and dont and in Trials and Dungeons you dont use mounts at all.
Any Race any Alliance is important mainly in PvP to get good races on other alliances (like Orc on EP and AD) and almost useless in PvE, because in PvE alliance doesn't matter. Race change is also often used for PvP only by PvP players. Alliance change is used exclusively by PvP players.
DLCs often have PvP items so PvPers have to buy them to stay competitive even when they dont care about the content. And PvPers usually have ESO+ and need it to manage the RotW and store crafting materials that they need very much to make builds in changing Meta.
PvE players don't have to be competitive most of the time, so they dont need newest gear and best race. Many players don't have ESO+ to avoid getting into DLC dungeons in random queue. Many PvE players are casual and dont spend money. There is also enaugh content in base game that you need long time to experience and don't have to buy chapters/dlcs immediately.
Maybe there will still be (PvE) players buying this things if you remove PvP, but most of the PvP players would probably leave the game or play less and not spend money if ZOS removed PvP.

jle30303 wrote: »

When push comes to shove... What PVP needs is *players*.

And what players who do PVP need is *a fair chance to actually enjoy some success*. In other words, the best players need to not be so powerful that they can mow through 10-20 unskilled players without consequence: if you can't take a good player down one-on-one, you should at least be able to zerg him down ten-on-one. Or possibly even five-on-one.

Some observations I would make:

(a) The fastest-moving players are simply just too blooming FAST. At running around, changing direction, teleporting to get out of range. Never mind skills, they can physically run around a player faster than that player can actually turn around on the spot. This is just silly. If someone is in front of you and some distance away, then running round to be behind you before you are able to react is not a thing they should be able to do.

(b) Enough server and connection power needs to be made available, that lag and ping are eliminated as a factor. TOTALLY. When a player hits a button to use a skill, that skill should work, at once, the way it is described.

(c) Once it is made to WORK, then comes the question of balance, and actually making it as much fun for the big majority who aren't any good, as for the small minority who are. Once it works as designed, you may then address the question of altering the design: but all the altering the design does not matter if the game does not work as designed, *however* it is designed, be the design good or bad.

(d) PVP rewards that rely on currency and progression, are by and large WAAAAY out of whack in terms of their cost. The later PVP levels are themselves too far apart in terms of Alliance Points: and there are SO MANY things that require purchase with Alliance Points or Tel Var, that the person who gets alliance points a few hundred at a time, and Tel Var a few tens at a time, and loses most of the latter to other players before getting them home, doesn't stand a chance of getting almost any of the practical rewards.

(e) A special comment of contempt can be made for the PVP food recipes. Whose idea was it to make three tiers of recipes of which the *first* tier was itself so impractically rare that you can pretty much never expect to actually find the recipe? And the second one to cost literally hundreds of thousands of Tel Var *per item* as well as for the book - AND require, and consume, a second copy of the recipe book for the first? And the third one to be literally so rare that the recipe item costs literally hundreds of millions in the mall if it's ever available at all, AND require the consumption of a second copy of the second-tier recipe at its absurd price AND a third copy of the first-tier recipe? And its ingredient is literally so rare that it is pretty much never worth the using?

When (unskilled) players can 1v1 or at least 2v1 a player, they will still fight him 10-20v1, attack him on sight, dismount him when he is just riding by, detect him when he is using invisibility and use siege on him. Usually there is big numerically inbalance between factions and 1 or 2 factions have much higher population than the others and takes keep after keep from the weaker faction with little to no resistance zerging down every defender untill they leave this game. Even if they can1vX you they will still zerg you down. 1vXers are usually not the reason for numerical inbalance and bad PvP, without them there is also bad PvP or often no PvP fights at all and one faction dominates everything. Getting killed outnumbered all the time and never a fair fight makes players quit the game. As long as multiple players can attack a single player, a single player should have a chance to win against multiple players.
It is very often the X that have no interest in becoming good in ESO PvP and winning in fair fights by playing better, always attack with full group when one/few players would be enaugh and run away from every 1v1/fair fight.


Even the best players can't win against 10-20 players if the 10-20 are not incredible bad and have no clue what they are doing.

I also had experience with 1vXers/Tower Trolls attacking my PuG group than running around an objective a few years ago and found them pretty annyoing, but now when I go into Cyrodiil or IC on PC EU all I see is Zergs hunting solo players and that is much worse. Most 1vXers have quittet the game or zerg themselve now, because 1vXing has become much more difficult.

It is bad if bad players are powerless and get farmed by 1vXers because the 1vXers are much stronger/more skilled/ experienced, but atm good players get farmed by bad players using numerically superiority ((or bad players by bad player or good players by good players) or bad players by good players using numerically and strength superiority).

1vXers aren't the main problem. numerical differences/zerging is.

geonsocal

Well, as an almost exclusive eso PVPer - i think i spent close to $40 to $60 dollars or whatever moving 8 of my 19 toons over to a single alliance when faction lock was re-instituted in the main campaign...

Due to them throwing out new sets that help in pvp - i'm in on each year's "expansion"...the only thing i don't spring for are the DLC's...if there's some gear there i need, i just wait for the free eso event...

thankfully i figured out years ago how to successfully manage my inventory, so no eso plus for me anymore...

my biggest gripes:
- stuck in combat
- logging on to see the map all one color

CrazyKitty

DaisyRay wrote: »

Genfe wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

True or not, pvp just does not bring them any income really from what I can see. Before I joined ESO+ again (which was only for the craft bag), I went months without spending any money on ESO despite playing it. Even though it sucks, it kind of makes sense to not put a lot of money or effort into something that doesn't directly benefit the company. If they tried to add any pve type things to pvp, people would be complaining. I don't really see a way for them to do anything about it without losing out on time that could used in pve. Where the money is.

This is completely false. Everyone I know from 6 years of primary pvp of playing has

All DLC
All expansions
Paid for costumes( before outfit station)
Exclusive mounts
All Classes
Any Race any Alliance
Buys Race Changes regularly
Gets the occasional Crown Crates

One friend of mine checked his bank account and about $11,000 of purchases in the last year alone.

1.) I didn't state this as a fact. I said from what I can see, making it my opinion based on my personal experience.
2.) I have only been playing this game for about 3 years off and on. It makes sense that my experience is not the same as yours.
3.) Everything on your list is PVE related. Thus they will have people purchasing those things even if they decided to shut PVP down for good. Not that I hope they do because I love PVP.

My point was that there is no requirement to purchase anything if you only play PVP. PVP is free, if you have the game you can play without buying anything extra. This does mean you won't buy anything, but there is little money in PVP only things. That I can think of at least. Again, just my opinion.

There are no PvP only things though. To compete in PvP you have to get all the latest releases to get the latest gear. You have to PvE to farm the gear etc.

PvP players, per capita, spend more on the game than any other subset of the player base.