Vampire

Skander

When we gonna nerf the undeath passive

seems a no brainer having free mitigation in a game that gives 5 skills per bar couse nothing is free

mocap

Undeath 30% reduction works only when player is almost dead. It's not same like Major/Minor Protection. Then why is everyone so angry about this?

Twig_Garlicshine

Vamp stage 3 is more of a Pvp crutch than any gear set ever was.
The advantage is huge, the detriment is ignorable.
World of Vamps exists because of this crutch.

There are ways to solve this pvp issue without affecting pve.

Nser

mocap wrote: »

Undeath 30% reduction works only when player is almost dead. It's not same like Major/Minor Protection. Then why is everyone so angry about this?

This used to be the case, but since the Greymoor rework Undeath kicks in as soon as you take damage from full health.
Strongest when you are near dead, but between 100% and 50% health you can still expect an up to 15% mitigation

Nser

@Skander
Ive made a "Nerf Undeath" post some time ago, would love to hear your thoughts

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/628520/fixing-vampire-undeath-and-restoring-health-regen-somewhat

mocap

Nser wrote: »

This used to be the case, but since the Greymoor rework Undeath kicks in as soon as you take damage from full health. Strongest when you are near dead, but between 100% and 50% health you can still expect an up to 15% mitigation

If nothing has changed in the calculated defense formulas, then 15% damage mitigation on top of 33k resistances means about +6% real damage reduction. Is it still worth it? Do all the players who are screaming so loudly about the need to nerf this passive know this?

Udrath

Blocking with ice staff/shield while in execute range with the undeath passive is what makes it good. They should just change it to major protection for x seconds after dropping to x health.

IncultaWolf

Udrath wrote: »

Blocking with ice staff/shield while in execute range with the undeath passive is what makes it good. They should just change it to major protection for x seconds after dropping to x health.

I'd love to see it get changed to major protection after you drop below 50% health

Stncold

The sad part about undeath is that really does need to be nerfed but if it does get nerfed it'll be the nail in the coffin for templars because it's the only thing keeping templars that are built for what passes for damage from the class from falling over in 2 seconds.

WreckfulAbandon

Finally, the stars have aligned. A Skander nerf thread I can get on board with.

Bluestin

Stncold wrote: »

The sad part about undeath is that really does need to be nerfed but if it does get nerfed it'll be the nail in the coffin for templars because it's the only thing keeping templars that are built for what passes for damage from the class from falling over in 2 seconds.

As a non-vampire Templar, yeah it's pretty bad. Still vampire Undeath absolutely needs a change, either making it become Major protection (10% Damage reduction) that kicks in at 50%, or moving it to stage 4 vampirism, making it untyped 15% damage reduction, and making the damage reduction abstain from reducing any incoming fire damage.

Bashev

Just bring back the knockdown from silver shards and make it fire damage and outlines the vampires.

Nothing annoys pvp-ers more than a spammable damage skill that CC. Make it also to ignore block. That will be the needed counter.

Also could lead to builds that hunt vampires, what is more fun than that? Let the vampires have advantage vs normal humans and suffer vs vampire hunters.

SkaraMinoc

From here.

Undeath is equivalent to Trial by Fire at low health.

The green area highlights the general range of Undeath, depending on existing sources of mitigation.



For example, 30k armor w/ minor protection would land you in the shaded area. No existing mitigation would be above the green area and a tank w/ protection and resolve, defensive CP, etc. would be below the green area.

Credible_Joe

Bashev wrote: »

Just bring back the knockdown from silver shards and make it fire damage and outlines the vampires.

Nothing annoys pvp-ers more than a spammable damage skill that CC. Make it also to ignore block. That will be the needed counter.

Also could lead to builds that hunt vampires, what is more fun than that? Let the vampires have advantage vs normal humans and suffer vs vampire hunters.

I agree with bigger weaknesses. Maybe a fighters guild passive that adds silver damage to your attacks & abilities as long as you have FG abilities slotted. More slotted (per bar), more silver damage. That way you wouldn't have to slot a specific skill that might not work for your build just to address vamps, the same way vamps don't have to slot a skill to get their mitigation.

Most builds slot 1 - 2 FG abilities already, and it would incentivize adding more or adjusting your build, the same way there's a huge incentive to be vamp if you're PvPing.

However, this would also inordinately affect werewolves, since they aren't unreasonably tanky the way vamps are. It might be worth buffing werewolves slightly to mitigate this. Maybe an asymmetrical solution where slotted FG abilities increase damage against vamps and reduce damage from WW's, if their DPS gets buffed.

There's a way to balance this trifecta, and it's frustrating seeing it like this.

Udrath

Currently my only solution right now against vampires is to use stamina/magicka cost increase poisons and dawnbreaker.
At stage 3:
+8% Regular Ability Cost

Cost increase poisons can add another 10% to regular ability cost. Which gives them 18% increased cost. Add another 4% if they are stage 4. The CP perks like Pain Refuge and Survival Instincts are a big part into why vampire is strong, but in battlegrounds and no-cp they are fairly balanced in my opinion. A vampire in a CP enabled campaign can be very hard to kill because at low HP+block+cp perks can mitigate a ton of damage while at execute range if they just block.

Base block mitigation is 50% - +4% with fortification passive.
Ice staff/shield - 20% block mitigation
Bracing anchor - 20% block mitigation
Ward master - 10% damage reduction while blocking
Pain refuge - maximum 20% damage reduction
Vampire - up to 30% damage reduction


So that's 94% block mitigation and potentially 60% and higher damage reduction while blocking. That's not even including major/minor buffs and debuffs and passives. Let me know if this is wrong.