too much in this game is time-limited

adriant1978

Can we talk about how over-reliant ESO is on FOMO?

Whether it's non-stop events, crate seasons, login rewards, golden vendor, luxury vendor, or even just the fact that many direct purchase items only stay in the Crown Store for a few weeks and then disappear it feels like the entire setup is designed to punish players who aren't constantly playing.

People take breaks from games for a whole host of reasons. Me, I tend to be quite focused when it comes to my gaming; when I'm playing a game I like to stick just to that game and logging into others that I'm not actively playing just to check today's limited time only deals is annoying and distracting. It's also very depressing to come back to ESO after a break, wondering what new cool stuff might be available to buy, and find that it's all been and gone while I was away and the best I can hope for is that it might return for another limited time only at some unspecified point in the future, which might also be when I'm not playing.

I've played a few other MMOs off and on, and ESO seems to be by far the worst offender for this. Do they really make more sales by only having the Awesome Sword of Doom available for three weeks in November 2022? I find it very difficult to believe that there wouldn't be more purchases if more items were in the Crown Store on a permanent basis, but I suppose ZOS have metrics which say otherwise.

freespirit

I realised very early on that there was going to be stuff in this game I would never own!

Back in I think 2017, they released a couple of Crown Store only Mottifs(Frostcaster was one of them), up until then I had been religiously collecting every motif but as soon as I saw that tatic I knew this was just the beginning.

Admitedly they haven't done it with motifs that often but they do it ALL the time with other items..... I have been subbed continuosly since launch, if it's not available to earn in game I generally don't get it!!

I slip up occasionally with houses and furnishings but I try just to use my sub crowns, my fomo is almost cured but not completely!!🤣

wilykcat

I don't get FOMO with online games anymore.

If there's time limited stuff I do want, I preview it and take screenshots. Also if I can afford it and I really like it-- then I'll get it. Otherwise I will wait for the time limited content to expire. I then get excited and curious to see what new stuff will be added into the shop later.

Tandor

To be honest, nothing in this game is absolutely necessary to get, however desirable some things may be to some players, and I've never understood the view that those who come and go with the game should be able to get everything that is available to those who stick all the time with the game. It's easy enough for those who do feel that there are sometimes things they particularly want just to keep an eye on what's happening in the game while they're taking a break from it and pop back when they feel they need to.

adriant1978

Tandor wrote: »

I've never understood the view that those who come and go with the game should be able to get everything that is available to those who stick all the time with the game.

Not that I personally think it should make a difference, but I'm going to jump to my own defence here and point out that I have maintained an active subscription since launch, so I feel I qualify as having "stuck with the game".

LukosCreyden

Its how they get people to consistently log in to the game, as such, do not expect it to change at any point.

Tandor

adriant1978 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've never understood the view that those who come and go with the game should be able to get everything that is available to those who stick all the time with the game.

Not that I personally think it should make a difference, but I'm going to jump to my own defence here and point out that I have maintained an active subscription since launch, so I feel I qualify as having "stuck with the game".

That's entirely fair enough, but it's not the same as logging in consistently and without that it's difficult to justify getting all the things that derive from doing so - although you have the option and incentive as an active subscriber to keep an eye on the game you're paying for with a view to logging in when there's something you want.

Kiralyn2000

So you're saying it's like basically every online/live-service/etc game, ever?


Don't worry, you'll get event burnout soon, and no longer care that there's Yet Another Event with a bunch of stuff you don't care about to collect. /meh

(yes, the solution to "FOMO" is over-exposure related apathy. )

adriant1978

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

So you're saying it's like basically every online/live-service/etc game, ever?

No, I'm actually saying that ESO is particularly bad in this regard.

I don't really want to start naming other MMOs, but I play two others about as often as I play ESO, and these games don't have anything like the emphasis on "for a limited time" in their equivalents of the Crown Store; by and large once a virtual item is released, it stays in the store and is always available for purchase.

I can go back to these games after some time away, see another player with a cool cosmetic, and immediately go buy it for myself. As opposed to ESO where hitting up UESP eventually reveals that it was only for sale for 3 weeks a couple of months ago and I missed it.

omnidoh

FOMO works because it relies upon a basic fundamental human drive: Fear.
Fear is the foundation of everything, and is the primary motivation for every action in all things biological.
There are two other secondary motivators; Curiosity and Apathy, the latter being an absence of either of the former two, but it's not like Zenimax or any other human-designed org is doing anything inherently evil, they're just exploiting a behavior response intrinsic to all living things, and humans are currently no exception.

The key difference is as others have posted, humans are unique in that we can both recognize and act against our primary motivations, which is itself an irony since actions against them are driven by them, thus there is no escape or alternative to them. Just variations on a theme, which is as old as life itself.

Zeni will change according to environmental pressure, just as everything else does.
Nothing happens spontaneously.
Everything occurs through attrition via force.

Want change?
Force it.
Complaints are in the end, just words, and words are meaningless unless they inspire or are followed by action.
Action (or deliberate inaction) is the force, and force brings change.

menedhyn

The ‘limited time’ approach to crown store items in particular has riled me in the past. The practice excludes people unable to purchase crowns at short notice for whatever sound financial reason they have to buy items they desire in a narrow window of availability. I know a few folks in that category. It’s not solely about having a regular online presence.

Alas, the system won’t change.

Tenthirty2

I was reluctant to post my thoughts on this because I don't want to give people the wrong impression. So I'll start by saying that BOTH my ideas below are predatory as heck for sales tactics and I condone neither.

But from a sales-logic standpoint ZoS is using the wrong tactic.
FOMO is bad for business and customer experience, IMO it doesn't generate nearly the revenue that regular sales could.

I'd be happy to see them ditch crates, take everything in them and list it on the store.
The "limited time" houses and other limited time items? what BS. They're not discounted, just there and gone, just because.
Make them ALL available continually. You will get more consistent sales I feel.
Maybe even make some of them earnable in-game...

FOMO only works for the customers that were able to buy it before the window closed. But you cut out the profits from the customers that WOULD still buy it, if it were continually available.

People don't want to go to a store seeking the item they'd like only to be told nope, it's gone.
Not because we "ran out" of it, we're just not selling it, because we want to make you want it more...
WHAT.

If someone sees something they want, then find out that it was a limited-time item and they missed out, that's bad for business.
Company gets ZERO sales and an irritated customer.

By the time that item comes around again, IF it comes around again, the customer will likely have forgotten about it, or just learned to live without.

Now, if the item they want is listed for sale in the store continually, instant gratification kicks in, they go buy it.
Company gets $$$ and a happy customer.

I'm no marketing guru, but I've been in the examples above several times and I am aware of others who have also.
Had the things I saw been in the store for sale, I would have absolutely picked them up immediately.

FOMO is ineffectual and outdated.
Instant gratification, now that is a powerful influencer for many people.

PrimeSeptim

That's every online game nowadays...

The only thing to do is to stop caring and snap out of the 'gotta have it all!!' mentality.

Most stuff in the crown store returns eventually or ends up in a crate though anyway - nothing's gone forever.

They know what they're doing and it works brilliantly. There's plenty of times I want to take a lengthy break but I can't because of the FOMO. I know when I get back I'll be regretting how much I've missed out on. I had a 2 year break at one point (I think when Orsinium was the latest thing) and missed out on so much probably.

I'm snapping out of it a bit though but it's hard. Most of the daily rewards can be missed. I don't do dailies too much now. Most events I'll just take 2 minutes to get the tickets. But still, I can't stop logging in every day. It's all or nothing.

Usually I just log in for 5 minutes, get mail, logout, play something else. So it's not too much of a burden.

One day I shall break these chains than bind me to this place.

Dr_Con

you're not entirely wrong but they have a specific free to play model (after the small free to entry) and they gotta pay the bills somehow.

Destai

I definitely agree. It’s really why I stopped spending money in the store and even skip most events. The rewards aren’t there for me, so I just focus on what activities I enjoy in the game.

Snamyap

Btoop wrote: »

[snip]

It only takes a couple of whales to outweigh millions of sardines.

[edited to remove quote]

Anumaril

I'm also really tired of the FOMO, particularly where the Crown Store is concerned (which is its own problem tbh). There are a host of things I'd like to buy, but I've got to wait literal years for them to eventually cycle back onto the store. Some are even things which cycled into the store recently, or onto Crates which were recently on the store but I missed. So for those items I'll be waiting probably two years or more for them to return.

Also, it seems that ZOS cycles things back onto the Store/Crates depending on the interest the wider playerbase has on seeing that thing return. So the chances of getting things which are not super popular get even slimmer. Having things perpetually in the Crown Store (including all the Crate varieties) would be something I support 100%.

But realistically that won't happen. ZOS have clearly determined that FOMO is a far more profitable system than just having everything available for the player to buy.

SeaGtGruff

If you don't like being controlled by FOMO, then stop being afraid of missing out.

Most of the limited-time items that come to the Crown Store will eventually return, anyway.

rpa

Just give up your FOMO and there is no problem. I'm myself terribad in keeping up with limited time offers of any kind and in the end it's not me who loses anything because that.

SerafinaWaterstar

I also wish they would stop the crates & just put stuff in the crown store to sell.

Personally I would spend more on purchasing shiny things if I knew I was getting exactly what I wanted. I will not spend my hard earned money on the ‘chance’ of getting that shiny in a crate.

I ignore FOMO items, mainly because the majority are now in crates. And however lovely & shiny, I will not gamble.

So they are losing money from me.

Danikat

"If you don't like it then don't do it" works for individual players, but considering (as many people have pointed out) the purpose of all these limited time activities and offers is to give players an incentive to log in more often and do more when they are online that's not a good solution from the developers perspective because it's completely counter-productive.

I started with that assumption because the game had been out for nearly a year when I bought it and I already knew from other MMOs I didn't have enough free time to keep up with other players. (For a few years I'd given up on MMOs entirely because they were all too much of a time sink.) Most of the time I'm fine with missing things or taking a long time to get to them, but occasionally it bothers me. I genuinely like the indriks and wanted to get at least some of them, and there were specific colours I wanted, but that meant I had to do enough of the events in that quarter to collect all the feathers and berries and since I have limited time to play that often meant putting everything else on hold during an event to get them. (At the time we didn't know they'd come back later.)

But that's probably good for ZOS because it means I was going out of my way to log in regularly and it will take me even longer to get through the permanent content so there's less risk of me quitting because I run out of things to do.

The problem is with other events where I don't like the rewards as much I find myself with a choice between putting the same sort of effort in for something I don't really want, spending the tickets I have on a few cheaper items and scrambling to get them back in case there's something I really want next time or skipping the event entirely and saving my tickets for later and the majority of the time I'm going to choose the 3rd option.

Ideally they'd find some way to balance constantly adding things for the people who can play for 8 hours a day every day, or enjoy the FOMO rewards and stuff for people who get turned off by it and are more likely to skip limited time offers than go out of their way to get them.

They've started doing some of that by making old event items available again when the event comes back around and I think that's a good move. There's some deadlands things I skipped because I didn't like them that much, but if I know I can get them gradually over time I'm more likely to go for it. If they can find a way to do the same with other limited time offers I think it would be a good compromise.

evan302

Regarding the store, I'm sure sales are being lost through FOMO, but whether that outweighs the purchases from those who just can't bear to miss out on something is very hard to say.
Personally, the longer I have to think about buying something with Crowns, the less likely I am to splash out. A few weeks or months waiting gives me plenty of time to convert the crown-price to RL currency and to consider:
a) Is it worth it?
and
b) Do I really want it?
But people like me aren't the target for these predatory sales techniques.

FOMO with events works up to a point, but once circumstances force you to miss out on something I feel it loses a lot of its power. It's disappointing to realise you're never going to complete your collection, or get a particular reward but it's also freeing. Once you get in the mindset of accepting you can't have everything, the pressure to log on just for the rewards is significantly reduced.
I hope I never do get to the stage of logging in to ESO for the rewards alone. It's all very well giving incentives, but if the game itself isn't entertaining, it can be counter-productive. Logging in to get your reward and then sitting around bored is a feeling lots of MMO players are familiar with. if I hit that stage with a game, I might keep it up for a while, but I've already got one foot out the door. I'm also far less likely to come back.

The trouble is, ZoS have been doing things this way for a long time, it clearly turns a profit and that's probably good enough for them. I doubt they're going to invest a lot of time and money seeing if they could do things differently, even if different might give greater customer satisfaction or even be more profitable.
A lot of companies fall into the trap of doing things the same way they always have. Usually this continues until those methods either fail spectacularly or change is forced upon them by something like a change in the law.

Personally, I'd love to see a change. I'd like more rewards available in-game at all times (play how you want right?), and I'd like to be able to buy what I want, when I want, from the store. Sadly, I don't see it happening.

redlink1979

I don't have FOMO. And we all shouldn't.
This is a game, not a second job.

Blood_again

Actually a very small amount of things is one time only.
Most of content in crown store, special npcs, festivals etc is obtainable again after some time.

For example you can obtain festival-specific motifs, styles and other items next year at the same time. If some items were removed from festival vendor, you can get it through bag for lower price.
Goldy, Coldharbor furnisher and almost all crown store items (including boxes) are repeatable.
I can remember even some "exclusive" items, which were declared then as "temporary exclusive" and came to the crown store after a year or two.

So don't be afraid. Those "buy now or never" banners on the stores are just a trick to make you feel FOMO. You have thousands of repeatable things promoted as "limited time only" again and again. There are only about few tens of them are really limited.
The Indrik Vendor is the best sample. Trust me we have good chances to see another vendor with later festival collectibles soon enough.

adriant1978

Blood_again wrote: »

Actually a very small amount of things is one time only.
Most of content in crown store, special npcs, festivals etc is obtainable again after some time.

This is true, but when they do reappear it's invariably for a limited time once again, so unless you're watching the store like a hawk it's easy to miss things both the first and second time around.

Kesstryl

menedhyn wrote: »

The ‘limited time’ approach to crown store items in particular has riled me in the past. The practice excludes people unable to purchase crowns at short notice for whatever sound financial reason they have to buy items they desire in a narrow window of availability. I know a few folks in that category. It’s not solely about having a regular online presence.

Alas, the system won’t change.

This is usually me. I often don't have disposable income, and when I do, items I want are already gone. I also tend to hoard crowns and not spend them because something just might come out that I really really want so that curbs my general spending. I'd probably buy more if things were in the cash shop for a longer period of time.

Danikat

evan302 wrote: »

Regarding the store, I'm sure sales are being lost through FOMO, but whether that outweighs the purchases from those who just can't bear to miss out on something is very hard to say.
Personally, the longer I have to think about buying something with Crowns, the less likely I am to splash out. A few weeks or months waiting gives me plenty of time to convert the crown-price to RL currency and to consider:
a) Is it worth it?
and
b) Do I really want it?
But people like me aren't the target for these predatory sales techniques.

They will lose some sales, but I've been told by marketing professionals that these sorts of tactics do work, and not just in games.

One odd example is selling out of season Christmas decorations. Most of the time in most places it's not worth it (which is why you don't see them sold all year round) but there's two exceptions: hand made and 'artisan' ones sold at craft fairs and locally made or themed ones sold in tourist spots. People will buy those all year round because they know they won't have the opportunity later on.

Of course that's a bit different because it's a genuine limitation, not an artificial one, but I'm told that distinction often doesn't matter to the buyer as long as it's not too obviously arbitrary.

Of course it's a balancing act - if you make it too annoying or you're putting too much pressure on customers they won't buy - but apparently done right FOMO can be an effective sales tactic.

Blood_again

adriant1978 wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

Actually a very small amount of things is one time only.
Most of content in crown store, special npcs, festivals etc is obtainable again after some time.

This is true, but when they do reappear it's invariably for a limited time once again, so unless you're watching the store like a hawk it's easy to miss things both the first and second time around.

I agree. Some stores like boxes and festivals are sequential and easy predictable. Some like Goldy and furnisher are looking pure random.
Well, they use an aggressive marketing tools. I don't like it because of pressure. I can't blame it because they work on their goals. Me and ZoS play vs each other in this part of the game. Some kind of pvp for my wallet

adriant1978

Yes, I'm necroing my topic but I felt the need to vent about how this is still every bit as bad and true as it was when I first posted.

Poked my head back into the game after a long-ish break and decided to try my hand at Scribing. Thought Nahlia's armor looked cool. Where can I find this, I wondered, thinking to freshen up my character after their recent absence from Tamriel. Oh, from Order of the Lamp Crown Crates which were around back in June last year. Not getting that then.

Later I received a Skill Style collectible and figured I would like some more of these. Nothing in the store but eventually discovered that most of them were part of something called Class Style Pack: Tamriel United, which I missed back in January so let's forget that as well.

Meanwhile the only things which stay in the Crown Store on a permanent basis appear to be the same old tired handful of items like the Noble Suit which have been in the game practically since launch.

Now I'm sure someone will be a long in a minute to defend this practise and tell me that it's my own stupid fault for not devoting my life to this game and logging in on a daily basis to keep track of the new time limited shinies ...

Islyn

Tandor wrote: »

To be honest, nothing in this game is absolutely necessary to get, however desirable some things may be to some players, and I've never understood the view that those who come and go with the game should be able to get everything that is available to those who stick all the time with the game. It's easy enough for those who do feel that there are sometimes things they particularly want just to keep an eye on what's happening in the game while they're taking a break from it and pop back when they feel they need to.

If they're paying all the time - they're sticking with the game all the time I mean.... ?

Is there not an email newsletter in advance of new things coming out? if so - this kinda invalidates OPs concern.

If not, why not?

mdjessup4906

People check email?

Just tell me when the hostile plants are coming back so I can put it in my calendar. I dont mind things being on rotation to a degree, but make it more frequent by far. And have some actual variety. Does everything have to be "themed?"

They could put an itemized list with dates on their website. Guess that makes too much sense.