Necromancer, a heavily neglected class

StarOfElyon

Ankael07 wrote: »

I try to kill people with Reanimate Blastbones ulti and I just wasted my last 3 uses of it.

1st time blastbones jumped at the target but didnt register any damage, 2nd time blastbones decided to jump on a random npc and final time they just watched the enemy player before exploding by themselves.

Wasted nearly 1500 ulti points trying to kill 1 player. I dont even know why I bother anymore

This want to use this ultimate so badly but it's just not worth it 😭

GrimStyx

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

I try to kill people with Reanimate Blastbones ulti and I just wasted my last 3 uses of it.

1st time blastbones jumped at the target but didnt register any damage, 2nd time blastbones decided to jump on a random npc and final time they just watched the enemy player before exploding by themselves.

Wasted nearly 1500 ulti points trying to kill 1 player. I dont even know why I bother anymore

This want to use this ultimate so badly but it's just not worth it 😭

It's a duel option and besides it requires corpses, and 50% the necro skills that generate corpses are useless, even I stopped using bone armor and just use a daedric trick, armor can be replaced with additional healing, damage or escape. For pvp from the ult, it’s mostly a comet or the more popular and strong Dawnbreaker, it’s even funny that the necro was made so carelessly by the developers that for it to be at least some kind of effectiveness, most of the main abilities have to be replaced with secondary branches

techprince

Added some potential solutions.

YandereGirlfriend

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Necromancer could be such a fan class and might just need some minor tweaks. Maybe that’s just me. Just what I would do, these could suck idk:

1. I’d make skulls spammable faster
2. I’d also change the secondary effect of the magicka morph of blastbones to apply a dot to those hit.
3. Skeletal summons has a proc element to it where you’ll have a chance to do more damage. Basically the summons will have a chance to throw a piece of themselves at the target doing more damage. Proc will create a corpse as well. In order for this to work well I would change this ability to be a permanent pet or “thrall” in necro talk. So you don’t lose a corpse the skeleton thrall will “drop a piece of itself” every 20 secs until killed. Death still drops a corpse too.
4. Bone totem will fear upon cast and pulsate every 2 secs afterwards for its duration, also creates a corpse.
5. Sets that summon something now also drop corpses as well

That’s just a few ideas I had. Idk.

Hard disagree on the second point.

Say it with me people: the secondary effect of stalking blastbones is the only thing keeping the class remotely usable in PvP.

Stalking Blastbones gets, at MINIMUM, a 10% damage buff over the other morph, and often far exceeds that. It isn't uncommon at all in PvP to receive the full 50% buff. It's what allows Stalking to hit as hard as it does. Remove that effect, and Necro would have 0 damage whatsoever.

Editing to add: on your fifth point, sets that summon pets like Mad Tinkerer or Scavenging Demise do create corpses when the pet expires; the problem is that the corpses last approximately 1 second so you don't have a whole lot of time to consume it.

BB targeting is bugged since forever so it will just leap from like 28 meters away rather than follow a target and increase the bonus damage.

CameraBeardThePirate

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Necromancer could be such a fan class and might just need some minor tweaks. Maybe that’s just me. Just what I would do, these could suck idk:

1. I’d make skulls spammable faster
2. I’d also change the secondary effect of the magicka morph of blastbones to apply a dot to those hit.
3. Skeletal summons has a proc element to it where you’ll have a chance to do more damage. Basically the summons will have a chance to throw a piece of themselves at the target doing more damage. Proc will create a corpse as well. In order for this to work well I would change this ability to be a permanent pet or “thrall” in necro talk. So you don’t lose a corpse the skeleton thrall will “drop a piece of itself” every 20 secs until killed. Death still drops a corpse too.
4. Bone totem will fear upon cast and pulsate every 2 secs afterwards for its duration, also creates a corpse.
5. Sets that summon something now also drop corpses as well

That’s just a few ideas I had. Idk.

Hard disagree on the second point.

Say it with me people: the secondary effect of stalking blastbones is the only thing keeping the class remotely usable in PvP.

Stalking Blastbones gets, at MINIMUM, a 10% damage buff over the other morph, and often far exceeds that. It isn't uncommon at all in PvP to receive the full 50% buff. It's what allows Stalking to hit as hard as it does. Remove that effect, and Necro would have 0 damage whatsoever.

Editing to add: on your fifth point, sets that summon pets like Mad Tinkerer or Scavenging Demise do create corpses when the pet expires; the problem is that the corpses last approximately 1 second so you don't have a whole lot of time to consume it.

BB targeting is bugged since forever so it will just leap from like 28 meters away rather than follow a target and increase the bonus damage.

Yes I am aware they changed it to leap from 28 meters.

However, if you've used it in PvP, you'd know it doesn't always leap immediately, thus getting more of a buff.

Additionally, the timer for the damage buff starts as soon as you press the ability, meaning that the time that Blastbones is climbing up out of the ground is boosting its damage. You can see this by simply comparing your damage between Blighted and Stalking on the same build - Stalking will always come out to be higher.

LukosCreyden

Necromancer has like four decent skills, and that is being quite generous.
It really needs something in the Q3 update. And by something, I mean a rework.

OtarTheMad

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Necromancer could be such a fan class and might just need some minor tweaks. Maybe that’s just me. Just what I would do, these could suck idk:

1. I’d make skulls spammable faster
2. I’d also change the secondary effect of the magicka morph of blastbones to apply a dot to those hit.
3. Skeletal summons has a proc element to it where you’ll have a chance to do more damage. Basically the summons will have a chance to throw a piece of themselves at the target doing more damage. Proc will create a corpse as well. In order for this to work well I would change this ability to be a permanent pet or “thrall” in necro talk. So you don’t lose a corpse the skeleton thrall will “drop a piece of itself” every 20 secs until killed. Death still drops a corpse too.
4. Bone totem will fear upon cast and pulsate every 2 secs afterwards for its duration, also creates a corpse.
5. Sets that summon something now also drop corpses as well

That’s just a few ideas I had. Idk.

Hard disagree on the second point.

Say it with me people: the secondary effect of stalking blastbones is the only thing keeping the class remotely usable in PvP.

Stalking Blastbones gets, at MINIMUM, a 10% damage buff over the other morph, and often far exceeds that. It isn't uncommon at all in PvP to receive the full 50% buff. It's what allows Stalking to hit as hard as it does. Remove that effect, and Necro would have 0 damage whatsoever.

Editing to add: on your fifth point, sets that summon pets like Mad Tinkerer or Scavenging Demise do create corpses when the pet expires; the problem is that the corpses last approximately 1 second so you don't have a whole lot of time to consume it.

BB targeting is bugged since forever so it will just leap from like 28 meters away rather than follow a target and increase the bonus damage.

Yes I am aware they changed it to leap from 28 meters.

However, if you've used it in PvP, you'd know it doesn't always leap immediately, thus getting more of a buff.

Additionally, the timer for the damage buff starts as soon as you press the ability, meaning that the time that Blastbones is climbing up out of the ground is boosting its damage. You can see this by simply comparing your damage between Blighted and Stalking on the same build - Stalking will always come out to be higher.

I've used it in PvP for a long time but the damage never really changes no matter what. It's meh.

J18696

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Necromancer could be such a fan class and might just need some minor tweaks. Maybe that’s just me. Just what I would do, these could suck idk:

1. I’d make skulls spammable faster
2. I’d also change the secondary effect of the magicka morph of blastbones to apply a dot to those hit.
3. Skeletal summons has a proc element to it where you’ll have a chance to do more damage. Basically the summons will have a chance to throw a piece of themselves at the target doing more damage. Proc will create a corpse as well. In order for this to work well I would change this ability to be a permanent pet or “thrall” in necro talk. So you don’t lose a corpse the skeleton thrall will “drop a piece of itself” every 20 secs until killed. Death still drops a corpse too.
4. Bone totem will fear upon cast and pulsate every 2 secs afterwards for its duration, also creates a corpse.
5. Sets that summon something now also drop corpses as well

That’s just a few ideas I had. Idk.

Hard disagree on the second point.

Say it with me people: the secondary effect of stalking blastbones is the only thing keeping the class remotely usable in PvP.

Stalking Blastbones gets, at MINIMUM, a 10% damage buff over the other morph, and often far exceeds that. It isn't uncommon at all in PvP to receive the full 50% buff. It's what allows Stalking to hit as hard as it does. Remove that effect, and Necro would have 0 damage whatsoever.

Editing to add: on your fifth point, sets that summon pets like Mad Tinkerer or Scavenging Demise do create corpses when the pet expires; the problem is that the corpses last approximately 1 second so you don't have a whole lot of time to consume it.

BB targeting is bugged since forever so it will just leap from like 28 meters away rather than follow a target and increase the bonus damage.

Yes I am aware they changed it to leap from 28 meters.

However, if you've used it in PvP, you'd know it doesn't always leap immediately, thus getting more of a buff.

Additionally, the timer for the damage buff starts as soon as you press the ability, meaning that the time that Blastbones is climbing up out of the ground is boosting its damage. You can see this by simply comparing your damage between Blighted and Stalking on the same build - Stalking will always come out to be higher.

Yeah thats not how the skill works the damage isn't based on a timer its based off how far it travels to reach the target so the animation of it being summoned isn't buffing it

CameraBeardThePirate

J18696 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Necromancer could be such a fan class and might just need some minor tweaks. Maybe that’s just me. Just what I would do, these could suck idk:

1. I’d make skulls spammable faster
2. I’d also change the secondary effect of the magicka morph of blastbones to apply a dot to those hit.
3. Skeletal summons has a proc element to it where you’ll have a chance to do more damage. Basically the summons will have a chance to throw a piece of themselves at the target doing more damage. Proc will create a corpse as well. In order for this to work well I would change this ability to be a permanent pet or “thrall” in necro talk. So you don’t lose a corpse the skeleton thrall will “drop a piece of itself” every 20 secs until killed. Death still drops a corpse too.
4. Bone totem will fear upon cast and pulsate every 2 secs afterwards for its duration, also creates a corpse.
5. Sets that summon something now also drop corpses as well

That’s just a few ideas I had. Idk.

Hard disagree on the second point.

Say it with me people: the secondary effect of stalking blastbones is the only thing keeping the class remotely usable in PvP.

Stalking Blastbones gets, at MINIMUM, a 10% damage buff over the other morph, and often far exceeds that. It isn't uncommon at all in PvP to receive the full 50% buff. It's what allows Stalking to hit as hard as it does. Remove that effect, and Necro would have 0 damage whatsoever.

Editing to add: on your fifth point, sets that summon pets like Mad Tinkerer or Scavenging Demise do create corpses when the pet expires; the problem is that the corpses last approximately 1 second so you don't have a whole lot of time to consume it.

BB targeting is bugged since forever so it will just leap from like 28 meters away rather than follow a target and increase the bonus damage.

Yes I am aware they changed it to leap from 28 meters.

However, if you've used it in PvP, you'd know it doesn't always leap immediately, thus getting more of a buff.

Additionally, the timer for the damage buff starts as soon as you press the ability, meaning that the time that Blastbones is climbing up out of the ground is boosting its damage. You can see this by simply comparing your damage between Blighted and Stalking on the same build - Stalking will always come out to be higher.

Yeah thats not how the skill works the damage isn't based on a timer its based off how far it travels to reach the target so the animation of it being summoned isn't buffing it

This is incorrect. You can test it yourself quite easily by dueling a nightblade - if you cast blastbones on the nightblade and they enter stealth, blastbones will grow in damage for each second they remain in stealth. The description of the skill even specifies that it's time based and ZOS confirmed when they changed Blastbones leap range that the timer starts as soon as the ability is cast. Don't spread misinformation on something you don't understand.

To quote ZOS' dev comment from the Harrowstorm update (when they changed the leaping functionality of Blastbones):

"Keep in mind that Stalking Blastbones guarantees at least a 10% damage increase over the base morph, so even in situations where it jumps immediately, this morph isn’t completely wasted; it just will not reach its highest scaling unless the Blastbones needs to gain line of sight on the target you initially cast it on."

StarOfElyon

I hate that blastbones can so easily be crowd controlled and leave you with basically no offense because blastbones can not break free.

Melzo

It would be better if they suggested how to change other skills, otherwise the necromancer will continue to live with one skill. To be honest, I don't really care about the bugs that are in the blastbones. Better they repaired all 14 skills. When you have a choice of 4 skills, it's *** up.

Seraphayel

I think the entire corpse mechanic should be a stackable buff like Crux for the Arcanist. The targeting is problematic, especially in PvP and hinders the class to be as good as it can be.

Every corpse should just give you a buff that can be stacked up to 2 or 3. Skills that required a corpse for usage now are either around the caster or lock to the target that you choose.

One huge problem solved, the class would be way less clunky to play while still retaining the corpse mechanic.

CameraBeardThePirate

Seraphayel wrote: »

I think the entire corpse mechanic should be a stackable buff like Crux for the Arcanist. The targeting is problematic, especially in PvP and hinders the class to be as good as it can be.

Every corpse should just give you a buff that can be stacked up to 2 or 3. Skills that required a corpse for usage now are either around the caster or lock to the target that you choose.

One huge problem solved, the class would be way less clunky to play while still retaining the corpse mechanic.

You should still have to target corpses in my opinion, but the tethers should be reworked to consume corpses in the area in order to apply a sticky DoT or HoT to everyone within the radius.

GrimStyx

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I think the entire corpse mechanic should be a stackable buff like Crux for the Arcanist. The targeting is problematic, especially in PvP and hinders the class to be as good as it can be.

Every corpse should just give you a buff that can be stacked up to 2 or 3. Skills that required a corpse for usage now are either around the caster or lock to the target that you choose.

One huge problem solved, the class would be way less clunky to play while still retaining the corpse mechanic.

You should still have to target corpses in my opinion, but the tethers should be reworked to consume corpses in the area in order to apply a sticky DoT or HoT to everyone within the radius.

I already wrote somewhere about Shocking Siphon, when applied to a corpse, instead of spawning tether, it should explode the corpse, deal instant AoE damage and apply a sticky dot on enemies in the area of ​​the explosion, but this only applies to the processing of one skill and its interaction. It would be possible to at least improve the ultimate with the resurrection of blastbones, and strengthen the skeleton mage when he is summoned next to a corpse, while absorbing this corpse, perhaps you can still somehow improve Deaden Pain, increase the duration of the major buff, and the duration of the healing, so that it could be used as a continuous treatment, and also, to receive a long-term buff on damage resistance, well, obviously longer in duration than it is now, moreover, the healing should be stronger with each absorbed corpse, in theory, with the maximum absorption of corpses, it should heal much better than most long-term self-healing abilities, but it still needs to work at least somehow normally even with one absorbed corpse, because until the moment when the player can accumulate corpses for absorption in order to get the long-awaited powerful heal, he can already be killed. In short, for such changes, corpses must accumulate very quickly, since in the event of a rework, abilities with absorption will become very relevant, and each will require the consumption of a corpse, there may not be enough for all the necessary abilities, but it seems to me that this will be the only way to somehow return necro to the game

washbern

This class needs major rework. Hopefully one that also does away with a 2 second rotation.

I would main the *** out of this class if blastbones didn't suck so much!

JerBearESO

Would be nice if the tethers could target players and simply allow to target corpses optionally or for some kind of bonus effect. Targeted tether would be sweeeeeet

OtarTheMad

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Necromancer could be such a fan class and might just need some minor tweaks. Maybe that’s just me. Just what I would do, these could suck idk:

1. I’d make skulls spammable faster
2. I’d also change the secondary effect of the magicka morph of blastbones to apply a dot to those hit.
3. Skeletal summons has a proc element to it where you’ll have a chance to do more damage. Basically the summons will have a chance to throw a piece of themselves at the target doing more damage. Proc will create a corpse as well. In order for this to work well I would change this ability to be a permanent pet or “thrall” in necro talk. So you don’t lose a corpse the skeleton thrall will “drop a piece of itself” every 20 secs until killed. Death still drops a corpse too.
4. Bone totem will fear upon cast and pulsate every 2 secs afterwards for its duration, also creates a corpse.
5. Sets that summon something now also drop corpses as well

That’s just a few ideas I had. Idk.

Hard disagree on the second point.

Say it with me people: the secondary effect of stalking blastbones is the only thing keeping the class remotely usable in PvP.

Stalking Blastbones gets, at MINIMUM, a 10% damage buff over the other morph, and often far exceeds that. It isn't uncommon at all in PvP to receive the full 50% buff. It's what allows Stalking to hit as hard as it does. Remove that effect, and Necro would have 0 damage whatsoever.

Editing to add: on your fifth point, sets that summon pets like Mad Tinkerer or Scavenging Demise do create corpses when the pet expires; the problem is that the corpses last approximately 1 second so you don't have a whole lot of time to consume it.

BB targeting is bugged since forever so it will just leap from like 28 meters away rather than follow a target and increase the bonus damage.

Yes I am aware they changed it to leap from 28 meters.

However, if you've used it in PvP, you'd know it doesn't always leap immediately, thus getting more of a buff.

Additionally, the timer for the damage buff starts as soon as you press the ability, meaning that the time that Blastbones is climbing up out of the ground is boosting its damage. You can see this by simply comparing your damage between Blighted and Stalking on the same build - Stalking will always come out to be higher.

Yeah thats not how the skill works the damage isn't based on a timer its based off how far it travels to reach the target so the animation of it being summoned isn't buffing it

This is incorrect. You can test it yourself quite easily by dueling a nightblade - if you cast blastbones on the nightblade and they enter stealth, blastbones will grow in damage for each second they remain in stealth. The description of the skill even specifies that it's time based and ZOS confirmed when they changed Blastbones leap range that the timer starts as soon as the ability is cast. Don't spread misinformation on something you don't understand.

To quote ZOS' dev comment from the Harrowstorm update (when they changed the leaping functionality of Blastbones):

"Keep in mind that Stalking Blastbones guarantees at least a 10% damage increase over the base morph, so even in situations where it jumps immediately, this morph isn’t completely wasted; it just will not reach its highest scaling unless the Blastbones needs to gain line of sight on the target you initially cast it on."

Just reinforces that the abilities' secondary effect needs to be changed because not everyone in Cyrodiil or BGs is a NB that spams stealth and if the BB doesn't immediately launch and "needs to gain line of sight on the target" before going.. it'll just despawn as it still kind of just stands around too often.

For me, the damage never really changed no matter what situation I was in so the magicka morph wasn't worth it anymore. At least with the stamina one I get defile.

techprince

The corpse mechanic is horrible. They don't last long and I have to target them so very frustrating in PvP.

techprince

It's funny how Force Pulse is a better cleave spammable than Ricochet Skulls.

Melzo

Waiting pts. If they do nothing there, then there is nothing to expect in the future, given that the patch is dedicated to balancing.

techprince

Melzo wrote: »

Waiting pts. If they do nothing there, then there is nothing to expect in the future, given that the patch is dedicated to balancing.

Extremely underwhelming patch notes for Necromancers.

StarOfElyon

Nothing at all changes for me. Le sigh.

LukosCreyden

but WHY though. This is the thing that bugs me.

@ZOS_Kevin , why are people so adverse to communication when it comes to topics that are being thrown around the forum for so long? Surely, a word or two can be spared when it comes to the overall dissatisfaction with this class?

Melzo

LukosCreyden wrote: »

but WHY though. This is the thing that bugs me.

@ZOS_Kevin , why are people so adverse to communication when it comes to topics that are being thrown around the forum for so long? Surely, a word or two can be spared when it comes to the overall dissatisfaction with this class?

There are actually few left. Change three skills from the first branch and one skill from the second, or rather a morph that does nothing and the animation of its skill is hands up. And it seems more than a normal class. Maybe today I will dream that I was able to win on a necromancer. Maybe even in the top 7. From the toilet.

MindOfTheSwarm

The main issues with Necro are so vast that it really needs gutting and rebuilding. Some of the skills are decent and the passives are very good, but they can’t make up for the classes shortcomings.
I think Blastbones should just be reworked into a skeleton melee pet. I know it’s generic, but it fits the Necromancer fantasy better.
I understand the concern with pets, but for every Necro will be one less Sorc.

Melzo

I would like to change the skeleton archer to a melee skeleton and make this skill a permanent pet like a sorcerer. It would deal the same amount of damage as it does now, but would give a buff for 20 spell damage and an active skill. For example, he swings an ax and stuns all opponents nearby. Or something like that. A lot of people liked it and a lot of people didn't, but the change would be much better than the state of the art today.

CameraBeardThePirate

Melzo wrote: »

I would like to change the skeleton archer to a melee skeleton and make this skill a permanent pet like a sorcerer. It would deal the same amount of damage as it does now, but would give a buff for 20 spell damage and an active skill. For example, he swings an ax and stuns all opponents nearby. Or something like that. A lot of people liked it and a lot of people didn't, but the change would be much better than the state of the art today.

No thank you. Necro already has bar space issues. Adding a permanent pet that you'd have to double bar would only exacerbate those issues.

Melzo

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

I would like to change the skeleton archer to a melee skeleton and make this skill a permanent pet like a sorcerer. It would deal the same amount of damage as it does now, but would give a buff for 20 spell damage and an active skill. For example, he swings an ax and stuns all opponents nearby. Or something like that. A lot of people liked it and a lot of people didn't, but the change would be much better than the state of the art today.

No thank you. Necro already has bar space issues. Adding a permanent pet that you'd have to double bar would only exacerbate those issues.

It's like you use this skill in pvp. I said some people like it and some don't, but it will bring good changes. But the most important thing is that the necromancer must have at least one permanent pet and not this morel that they offer.

And even if this skill gets a buff for spell damage or crit chance or even both at once. Why does a necromancer become stronger, given that he doesn’t deal damage at all. The maximum that you will get is the convenience for using potions. But it won't make you stronger. First of all, it is required to rework the mechanics of damage and stun. And these buffs can be obtained from potions and from sets and from allies. I've been playing for two years but I still don't understand the thirst for these two buffs.

Melzo

By the way, developers could implement both morphs. Make one permanent pet and the other temporary. This would suit every player perfectly.

OtarTheMad

Melzo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

I would like to change the skeleton archer to a melee skeleton and make this skill a permanent pet like a sorcerer. It would deal the same amount of damage as it does now, but would give a buff for 20 spell damage and an active skill. For example, he swings an ax and stuns all opponents nearby. Or something like that. A lot of people liked it and a lot of people didn't, but the change would be much better than the state of the art today.

No thank you. Necro already has bar space issues. Adding a permanent pet that you'd have to double bar would only exacerbate those issues.

It's like you use this skill in pvp. I said some people like it and some don't, but it will bring good changes. But the most important thing is that the necromancer must have at least one permanent pet and not this morel that they offer.

And even if this skill gets a buff for spell damage or crit chance or even both at once. Why does a necromancer become stronger, given that he doesn’t deal damage at all. The maximum that you will get is the convenience for using potions. But it won't make you stronger. First of all, it is required to rework the mechanics of damage and stun. And these buffs can be obtained from potions and from sets and from allies. I've been playing for two years but I still don't understand the thirst for these two buffs.

I agree completely. The offensive abilities need to be tweaked and adding buffs is not the answer. Like I said in another thread, ZOS can put sorcery on the skeletal summons but I’m still not slotting it. The offensive abilities need to be tweaked, offense is really Necros problem. Not healing, not tanking, just offense.

Also, have they fixed fear totem yet? It doesn’t fear 2 seconds after cast like it says it does.