Redguards still need help.

StarOfElyon

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).

"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.

Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

BasP

Those changes would be nice indeed. Considering my main character is a Redguard Stamden (a great choice for a PvE DD, I know), I'd welcome any buffs to the race.

Lore-wise, I don't think it would be too far-fetched to replace the reduced effectives to snares from Martial Training with a small critical chance buff too. Considering Redguards are well-trained and disciplined warriors, one can imagine that they'd be able to find an opening in their opponent's defense and strike at the right time (translating into a critical hit). Or something like that, anyways.

StarOfElyon

BasP wrote: »

Those changes would be nice indeed. Considering my main character is a Redguard Stamden (a great choice for a PvE DD, I know), I'd welcome any buffs to the race.

Lore-wise, I don't think it would be too far-fetched to replace the reduced effectives to snares from Martial Training with a small critical chance buff too. Considering Redguards are well-trained and disciplined warriors, one can imagine that they'd be able to find an opening in their opponent's defense and strike at the right time (translating into a critical hit). Or something like that, anyways.

If I was to choose any potential damage passive for the Redguards to receive, it would probably be a boost to weapon passives.

BasP

Oh nice, that would be good (and fitting) too. I'd definitely like it.

NordSwordnBoard

These are what Warrior passives look like:
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
Grants 1000 Max Health. When you deal damage, you heal for 2125 Health. This can occur once every 4 seconds.

Redguard passives are geared towards sustain, and few people need much sustain these days. Waiting for a META shift back to these being useful could be an indefinite wait.

Roylund

This is what I came up with in this thread

Martial Training - Reduces the cost of weapon abilities by 12% Doubles the bonuses obtained from weapons ONLY when using weapon skills.

Weapon cost reduction is far more specific than magicka or stamina reduction. The bonus should be much higher than what Bretons and Imperials have. If Redguards are martial masters and fearsome warriors then they should also have bonuses tied to how destructively they wield those weapons. Do sword swings just feel lighter to them or are they actually employing their expertise to deal more damage? Doubling weapon bonuses like mace pen, sword dmg, dagger crit, etc. I think is fair in light that Redguards have ZERO defensive bonuses (no resistance of any kind, no health passive), that the bonus is lost upon switching to a different weapon, and that the bonus only applies to weapon skills. The number itself could be tweaked but the idea should remain.

StarOfElyon

Please ZOS. I'm begging. Get Redguards out of the trashbin.

Luckylancer

Adrenaline Rush - When you deal damage, you restore up to 1005 Stamina and gain upto 258 weapon and spell damage for 6 seconds. Stamina and damage gain are inversed propotional to your missing stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

If you are max stamina all the time you gain others' max 258 damage bonus. If you lack sustain you get balanced sustain. If you are totaly drained you just get some stam.

MashmalloMan

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

These are what Warrior passives look like:
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
Grants 1000 Max Health. When you deal damage, you heal for 2125 Health. This can occur once every 4 seconds.

Redguard passives are geared towards sustain, and few people need much sustain these days. Waiting for a META shift back to these being useful could be an indefinite wait.

If it did, no one would use RG still because weapon cost reduction was ill conceived from its conceptiion in 2019 and the stam return every 5s is only in combat. Even if it was 100% uptime, it's not stronger than Wood Elfs Regen after multipliers and they have pen/movement speed/detection range which isn't matched remotely by 15% snare reduction.

I said it then, I'll say it now, the longer the game receives content, the less potent that 8% cost reduction becomes because more options become available the further they expand the game. This couldn't be more true with Scribing on the horizon, but it was especially evident when hybridization came about.

It's not 2017, stam builds aren't running 4-6 weapon skills anymore. The only way RG had a chance of squeeking ahead of Wood Elf is when every single build for pve had Volley, Poison Injection, Balista, Rending Slashes, Whirling Blades, Deadly Cloak, and Flurry slotted... now, I can barely make space for a single weapon skill, why would I ever use Redguard?

StarOfElyon

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda salty the Orcs got the speed passive and not the Redguards. The snare reduction is barely noticeable.

Faulgor

As has been suggested repeatedly, they should have a bonus to weapon traits like the Heartland Conqueror set.
That's flexible and on point.

the1andonlyskwex

ZOS can't buff redguards without being accused of manipulating racial balance to sell race change tokens. As a result, they probably won't do it, no matter how necessary it might be.

StarOfElyon

Faulgor wrote: »

As has been suggested repeatedly, they should have a bonus to weapon traits like the Heartland Conqueror set.
That's flexible and on point.

And I have agreed with that in the past.

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).

"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.

Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

I altered my post and gave a flat recovery bonus to their adrenaline rush passive. I adjusted the stamina return when dealing AND taking damage. I took into account the flat recovery. I did some mathing and I believe this gives them roughly the same amount of stamina return as the current passive without being as punishing for not hitting a target every five seconds.

Edit: PLEASE listen ZOS. These changes will help what is objectively the worst race to play. @ZOS_GinaBruno

StarOfElyon

It is so frustrating that on this supposed sustain-race I still have to build a lot into stamina sustain so that I can't build for magicka sustain without sacrificing damage or survivability. I push the absolute minimum for magicka sustain without making my character unplayable. Because without damage, this simply doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LdD-opRXpQ

StarOfElyon

Sure would be nice if Redguards finally got some love. I'm planning to make a Redguard necromancer. 🥺

BasP

It would definitely be nice if Redguards finally got an upgrade. The new abilities outside of the Weapon skill lines that were added with Scribing have made the current Martial Training passive even more underwhelming/ outdated.

I still wouldn't mind it if a 50% bonus to the effectiveness of weapon traits made it into their passives though, possibly replacing the relatively useless reduced effectiveness of snares.

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).

"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.

Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

StarOfElyon

We're suffering in silence over here

Here's a vid from Gloomfrost:
https://youtu.be/Rwan9cJuhdY?si=9Jux2IMrupubUBNo

LittlePinkDot

I want them to add weapon/spell damage to adrenaline rush.

Castagere

StarOfElyon wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Those changes would be nice indeed. Considering my main character is a Redguard Stamden (a great choice for a PvE DD, I know), I'd welcome any buffs to the race.

Lore-wise, I don't think it would be too far-fetched to replace the reduced effectives to snares from Martial Training with a small critical chance buff too. Considering Redguards are well-trained and disciplined warriors, one can imagine that they'd be able to find an opening in their opponent's defense and strike at the right time (translating into a critical hit). Or something like that, anyways.

If I was to choose any potential damage passive for the Redguards to receive, it would probably be a boost to weapon passives.

I have been asking for this for years. They are supposed to be the best weapon fighters in every TES game. Part of the martial passive should be a huge boost to bladed weapons.

StarOfElyon

Unsubscribed from ESO Plus. I think it's time for me to break the hopium addiction.

karthrag_inak

Redguards' issues can be solved with 2 simple adjustments

1. Cover with closely cropped fur of desired color and pattern
2. Add tail directly above formerly-bald-but-now appropriately furred bottom.

karthrag_inak

All redguards - succumb to the khajiit side. We have claws. And skooma.

(Khajiit jests, and hopes that redguards get well-deserved love and adjusmtents soon)

BXR_Lonestar

Redguard needs something to help it compete with damage output. Redguard's are currently the "sustain" option for stam characters, similar to bretons, but they lack the defensive passives of the bretons, and they have nothing that really helps you increase your damage output, except max stam, which only helps if you've basically created a stam spec DPS.

Some suggestions for helping them in this area:

1. Give them increased weapon and Spell Damage;

2. Give them innate increased crit chance

3. Give them increased penetration;

4. Or any of the above when a martial weapon is equipped (includes bows).

In the early days of the game, sustain was much harder, and thus, Redguard was a much better option, but a DPS character can now basically ignore sustain altogether and rely on their supports to enhance their sustain, meaning there is no need for a High-sustain option. This is also an issue for the Woodelf and the Argonian IMO (though the Argonian's sustain mechanic still makes it a great option for a tank).

BasP

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Some suggestions for helping them in this area:

1. Give them increased weapon and Spell Damage;

2. Give them innate increased crit chance

3. Give them increased penetration;

4. Or any of the above when a martial weapon is equipped (includes bows).

This is why I think an increased effectiveness of Weapon Traits, like a weaker version of Heartland Conqueror's 5th piece, would be cool. Depending on your weapon's trait, you could have more crit chance, more penetration, more weapon/ spell damage (via a stronger Infused Weapon Damage glyph) et cetera.

To me it also seems fitting to me that a race that is "innately more proficient with the use of weaponry than any other race" could wield their weapons to greater effect, which would fit the increased effectiveness of their traits.

But yeah, the current Martial Training is definitely underwhelming. On my Redguard Warden's off-meta Bow/Bow setup I use exactly one weapon skill, Volley, making that passive largely useless for me. Any damage buff would be welcomed by me...

StarOfElyon

BasP wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Some suggestions for helping them in this area:

1. Give them increased weapon and Spell Damage;

2. Give them innate increased crit chance

3. Give them increased penetration;

4. Or any of the above when a martial weapon is equipped (includes bows).

This is why I think an increased effectiveness of Weapon Traits, like a weaker version of Heartland Conqueror's 5th piece, would be cool. Depending on your weapon's trait, you could have more crit chance, more penetration, more weapon/ spell damage (via a stronger Infused Weapon Damage glyph) et cetera.

To me it also seems fitting to me that a race that is "innately more proficient with the use of weaponry than any other race" could wield their weapons to greater effect, which would fit the increased effectiveness of their traits.

But yeah, the current Martial Training is definitely underwhelming. On my Redguard Warden's off-meta Bow/Bow setup I use exactly one weapon skill, Volley, making that passive largely useless for me. Any damage buff would be welcomed by me...

And if you're outnumbered (not dealing damage) you get ZERO.... ZERO sustain from this race.

StarOfElyon

Hey I understand now why Redguards a have been so poorly designed and have been at the bottom for so long. Their passives SUCK so badly that you can't believe anyone who has tried to play a Redguard wouldn't immediately know that any other race would be better to pick.

Stx

I haven’t played in a few years but i think it’s hilarious they still haven’t buffed the weak races or even done a whole racial ability pass.

My idea from a few years back:

Weapon master: Increases the effectiveness of your weapon trait by 50%. This would give redguards some versatility and if your trait is damage focused, this would equal roughly 1600 penetration or 3.5% crit.

They can keep the stamina and the stamina proc.

StarOfElyon

Stx wrote: »

I haven’t played in a few years but i think it’s hilarious they still haven’t buffed the weak races or even done a whole racial ability pass.

My idea from a few years back:

Weapon master: Increases the effectiveness of your weapon trait by 50%. This would give redguards some versatility and if your trait is damage focused, this would equal roughly 1600 penetration or 3.5% crit.

They can keep the stamina and the stamina proc.

I remember seeing the idea come up a lot but I couldn't remember who said it first. Thanks for speaking on it again.

Even if they get that bonus, the sustain passive is still holding them back. It's extremely bad design considering that in PvP environments you can spend a lot of time on the defensive and without sustain it's a death sentence.