REPAIR that darn!!!!!!!!!!! ranking system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AnduinTryggva

Really!!!! I am so HIGHLY FRUSTRATED with that point system. Loosing 150 points for losing a match is just insane. Explain to us how you come to consider that dropping from rank 88 to rank 250 by losing two matches is something to be enjoyed by players!

NeKryXe

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Really!!!! I am so HIGHLY FRUSTRATED with that point system. Loosing 150 points for losing a match is just insane. Explain to us how you come to consider that dropping from rank 88 to rank 250 by losing two matches is something to be enjoyed by players!

Now you just need to win over 100 matches to get back to the same position. I bet you are now winning about 1 to 5 points on each victory. It's so pathetic it's even funny.

AnduinTryggva

ROFL. Just dropped from rank 324 to something beyond 800 on 3 lost matches...

Seriously, I think the only way is to boykott ranked matches.

That's what I am going to do as the little bit of extra reward is not worthwhile that bunch of frustration dished out to us players.

NoSoup

So late joining this season as a certain recently released star wars game drew me away. Log in last night and quickly got through to the ranked games. The very first game I played the player conceded before the patrons were drawn, I'll come back to this, but it netted me 200 points instantly. Then went on to win the next 5 games which brought me up to 414 points, ALL three of the next games gave me 0 points, stayed on 414. I then lost the next 3 games that took me to 7 points. So 9 wins, 3 loses = 7 points. 
At this point it was time to make my girl's dinner so I logged out but got hung up on that first game where the player instantly conceded. To have got 200 points I got the impression they had to be around a similar "match making rank" or higher, why would they concede like that? So I started thinking maybe it's a strategy, so while I was dealing with dinner decided to log in, queue and just concede every match to see what effect it has on the players I'm matched with. I mean, basically on zero points anyway and you don't go into negative. 
When I logged back in to play properly, I noticed a huge shift in the opponents I was getting matched with. Games took tediously longer as the other players really had to think out their moves but the lowest points I netted was 50 with most around 100. The really interesting one was the last two games I played. Got the same opponent two games in a row, I lost the first game which result in just 14 points being deducted, then won the next that gave 150 points. Now, based on my previous experiences I would bet my left nut that the opponent probably got 0 points for their win and lost 150 on the game I won. All this just goes to show how grossly out of balance the ranking system is.

petanko

Getting +0 for a win is even more enjoyable. It's so hard to adopt a system that (is not ideal, but) works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

NoSoup wrote: »

At this point it was time to make my girl's dinner so I logged out but got hung up on that first game where the player instantly conceded. To have got 200 points I got the impression they had to be around a similar "match making rank" or higher, why would they concede like that?

It's not conceding by purpose, it's a disconnect or crash.

NeKryXe

petanko wrote: »

Getting +0 for a win is even more enjoyable. It's so hard to adopt a system that (is not ideal, but) works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

NoSoup wrote: »

At this point it was time to make my girl's dinner so I logged out but got hung up on that first game where the player instantly conceded. To have got 200 points I got the impression they had to be around a similar "match making rank" or higher, why would they concede like that?

It's not conceding by purpose, it's a disconnect or crash.

How is it an Elo system when you ALWAYS lose -150 points on every loss and most of the times you never get more than +5 points on victories?

It already happened many times to me, losing 2 matches against the same player, and I always get -300 points removed from my score, then if I get matched again with that same player (it's very usual) and win, I rarely receive more than +5 points. This is not how Elo rating system works.

NoSoup

petanko wrote: »

Getting +0 for a win is even more enjoyable. It's so hard to adopt a system that (is not ideal, but) works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

NoSoup wrote: »

At this point it was time to make my girl's dinner so I logged out but got hung up on that first game where the player instantly conceded. To have got 200 points I got the impression they had to be around a similar "match making rank" or higher, why would they concede like that?

It's not conceding by purpose, it's a disconnect or crash.

Disagree. There is definitely an advantage to be gained by deliberately conceding/losing a bunch of games when you are on or near 0 points.

The effect it had on my scoring allowed me to go from rank 800 to 134 in a couple of hours. I never lost more than 100 points on a loss and had a couple of games where I only lost 20 points. Never, Never Never did I see this in the last couple of seasons, it was always a statutory 150 point hit on a loss. On top of that, every game I won netted points, with the smallest gain being 40.

There is absolutely an advantage to deliberately conceding a bunch of games and explains why it occurs more than you would expect for a "random disconnect"

NeKryXe

NoSoup wrote: »

petanko wrote: »

Getting +0 for a win is even more enjoyable. It's so hard to adopt a system that (is not ideal, but) works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

NoSoup wrote: »

At this point it was time to make my girl's dinner so I logged out but got hung up on that first game where the player instantly conceded. To have got 200 points I got the impression they had to be around a similar "match making rank" or higher, why would they concede like that?

It's not conceding by purpose, it's a disconnect or crash.

Disagree. There is definitely an advantage to be gained by deliberately conceding/losing a bunch of games when you are on or near 0 points.

The effect it had on my scoring allowed me to go from rank 800 to 134 in a couple of hours. I never lost more than 100 points on a loss and had a couple of games where I only lost 20 points. Never, Never Never did I see this in the last couple of seasons, it was always a statutory 150 point hit on a loss. On top of that, every game I won netted points, with the smallest gain being 40.

There is absolutely an advantage to deliberately conceding a bunch of games and explains why it occurs more than you would expect for a "random disconnect"

I've been trying your idea and I conceded a bunch of matches to test it. I already dropped more than 200 positions and I'm still losing -150 points in every match. Seems that it doesn't make any difference in what position you are, you'll always lose -150 points on every loss. That's a fixed value. I didn't find any benefit in doing it, it's just helping opponents to score more points.

After I dropped bellow top 20% I played one full match and I won (in fact) +40 points. So, that's interesting. I was stuck getting less than +5 points before drop 200 places. I'll see how it goes now, but I guess that I'll continue losing -150 points on losses and after reaching top 10% probably I'll no longer get more than +5 points on wins again.

I still think that they should always win at least +40 points no victories in any position.


*UPDATE*

I've been winning a few matches, I already returned to top 5%, and I'm still getting always more than +40 points. So, looks like after all conceding a bunch of matches is a good way to start getting points again when we get stuck bellow +5 points on wins. Quite interesting it really works.

Necrotech_Master

NeKryXe wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

petanko wrote: »

Getting +0 for a win is even more enjoyable. It's so hard to adopt a system that (is not ideal, but) works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

NoSoup wrote: »

At this point it was time to make my girl's dinner so I logged out but got hung up on that first game where the player instantly conceded. To have got 200 points I got the impression they had to be around a similar "match making rank" or higher, why would they concede like that?

It's not conceding by purpose, it's a disconnect or crash.

Disagree. There is definitely an advantage to be gained by deliberately conceding/losing a bunch of games when you are on or near 0 points.

The effect it had on my scoring allowed me to go from rank 800 to 134 in a couple of hours. I never lost more than 100 points on a loss and had a couple of games where I only lost 20 points. Never, Never Never did I see this in the last couple of seasons, it was always a statutory 150 point hit on a loss. On top of that, every game I won netted points, with the smallest gain being 40.

There is absolutely an advantage to deliberately conceding a bunch of games and explains why it occurs more than you would expect for a "random disconnect"

I've been trying your idea and I conceded a bunch of matches to test it. I already dropped more than 200 positions and I'm still losing -150 points in every match. Seems that it doesn't make any difference in what position you are, you'll always lose -150 points on every loss. That's a fixed value. I didn't find any benefit in doing it, it's just helping opponents to score more points.

After I dropped bellow top 20% I played one full match and I won (in fact) +40 points. So, that's interesting. I was stuck getting less than +5 points before drop 200 places. I'll see how it goes now, but I guess that I'll continue losing -150 points on losses and after reaching top 10% probably I'll no longer get more than +5 points on wins again.

I still think that they should always win at least +40 points no victories in any position.


*UPDATE*

I've been winning a few matches, I already returned to top 5%, and I'm still getting always more than +40 points. So, looks like after all conceding a bunch of matches is a good way to start getting points again when we get stuck bellow +5 points on wins. Quite interesting it really works.

that still sounds hilariously broken lol

i should try to reach rubedite tier at least once for the achievements, but i personally dont enjoy pvp tribute matches, so ive only done enough to get all of the card upgrades unlocked

Sotha_Sil

Ranking is definitely not fair. But I guess it was intentionally desgined that way to make us play ToT for ages. It's horrendous but not surprising from ZOS at this point.

NoSoup

So I'm leaning towards thinking that the ranking system doesn't reset when the season changes, and the internal match making rank continues throughout your entire acount career. This is the only way I can explain how intentionally losing a heap of matches has such a positive effect. The best time to do it is right after hitting Rubedite. Just concede 10 or so games and then you'll have a more enjoyable experience as you try to climb the ladder.

NeKryXe

NoSoup wrote: »

So I'm leaning towards thinking that the ranking system doesn't reset when the season changes, and the internal match making rank continues throughout your entire acount career. This is the only way I can explain how intentionally losing a heap of matches has such a positive effect. The best time to do it is right after hitting Rubedite. Just concede 10 or so games and then you'll have a more enjoyable experience as you try to climb the ladder.

Yep. That's probably right. I ended up in top 2% last season, and it's probably why I was getting so few points on victories on this season. Anyway, conceding a bunch of matches helped me to get more points on victories now, but I'm still losing -150 points on every loss even against higher level players.

Next season I'll be doing exactly what you are suggesting: concede a bunch of matches right after hitting Rubedite.

NoSoup

lol I played the same player FIVE times in a row last night. FIVE times!

Won the first 4 matches which reward a tad over 500 points net then lost the last match which game with a -100 hit, so gained just over 400 points for the whole 5 matches. We selected the exact same patrons on every game.

Would have been interesting to know how it affected the other player's position.

NeKryXe

Zos continues to despise us over this issues. ToT is great but the ranking system is an absolute trash has we all have been reporting constantly. And it's worse when the awful ESO servers are failing. Today I got removed from the server twice and instead of being able to return to the matches in my turn time, the game just assumed that I conceded and I got -300 points stolen from my score. This purely cheating. We are being cheated by Zos constantly.

I played Elder Scrolls Legends for many years, and every time I got booted from the game I was ALWAYS able to return. So, we know for sure that it is possible to return to a match after login, I even can do that in dungeons. So, clearly CHEATING! Also, the fact that the systems always opts to steal -150 when a player is booted from the server due to their incompetence, it's the confirmation that it is cheating.

WitchyKiki

They cant even properly nerf crow, why would they fix the ranking? lololol cmon.