Telvanni peninsula on uesp

isadoraisacat

Does anyone remember uesp saying necrom is NOT in the telvanni peninsula? Because now it says it is it.

This was edited 23 hours ago On uesp prior it said necrom was not part of it.

I just want a confirmation that this is a retcon because prior the telvanni peninsula did not include necrom.

I know uesp is unofficial but they seem to be always on the pulse of what is accurate.

Soarora

UESP can be frustrating sometimes (like writing Skyrim mods like they're canon and saying that Mannimarco is an Aldmer), they're probably just following what information ZOS gives us, especially since it's been a long time since we've seen Necrom.

LunaFlora

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

isadoraisacat

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Yes but it used to specifically state necrom was not in the region now it has retroactively changed and does not mention that line only the zone now in eso.

I’m aware it’s not supposed to be part of it… but this feels like they are going to retcon the lore again.

isadoraisacat

Soarora wrote: »

UESP can be frustrating sometimes (like writing Skyrim mods like they're canon and saying that Mannimarco is an Aldmer), they're probably just following what information ZOS gives us, especially since it's been a long time since we've seen Necrom.

I get that I’m just curious if this is pushing towards a retcon since necrom was not normally in the “telvanni peninsula “ there have been many threads addressing this but now seems is being retconned because of the chapter.

isadoraisacat

Soarora wrote: »

UESP can be frustrating sometimes (like writing Skyrim mods like they're canon and saying that Mannimarco is an Aldmer), they're probably just following what information ZOS gives us, especially since it's been a long time since we've seen Necrom.

The only mods I consider canon are the mods included in Skyrim anniversary as they are baked into the base game now I consider them now part of the canon.

But otherwise any other mods are not canon. Unless Bethesda ads then into the game themselves or says other wise.

isadoraisacat

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Elsonso

Well, given that Necrom is entirely surrounded by water, it could be considered to be on an island.

isadoraisacat

Elsonso wrote: »

Well, given that Necrom is entirely surrounded by water, it could be considered to be on an island.

Sure it could be considered many things. But I’d like to here if this is a mistake or retcon.

Because prior it wasn’t part of this location.

LunaFlora

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Elsonso

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

There is no retcon that I can see. This is because the "Telvanni Peninsula" does not appear to be a geographic description. It is a political one.

Another thing to remember is that peninsulas can be part of larger peninsulas and still retain identity with the larger one. Do you know how many peninsulas Florida has? They are still considered to be part of Florida.

isadoraisacat

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

Soarora

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

UESP can be frustrating sometimes (like writing Skyrim mods like they're canon and saying that Mannimarco is an Aldmer), they're probably just following what information ZOS gives us, especially since it's been a long time since we've seen Necrom.

The only mods I consider canon are the mods included in Skyrim anniversary as they are baked into the base game now I consider them now part of the canon.

But otherwise any other mods are not canon. Unless Bethesda ads then into the game themselves or says other wise.

What I recall is that the paid mods in the special edition store are written as if they're canon, though personally I consider no mod, not even the anniversary mods, to be canon. Especially the Sheogorath one that seems to go against established lore. (You don't just give away the symbol of your seat of power...?!) But I digress, I hope that ZOS changes the name but based on the Telvanni cities it seems to be a part of the peninsula now. The reasoning for this seems to be (based on the Divayth Fyr Q&A) that Dunmer holdings shift often and maps aren't always accurate. So I suppose it's Telvanni at this point in time, but that does not mean it is in any other point in time.

Elsonso

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

Yes, because we can see now that the map was not accurate. Sloppy lazy map makers. The bane of Tamriel.

isadoraisacat

Soarora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

UESP can be frustrating sometimes (like writing Skyrim mods like they're canon and saying that Mannimarco is an Aldmer), they're probably just following what information ZOS gives us, especially since it's been a long time since we've seen Necrom.

The only mods I consider canon are the mods included in Skyrim anniversary as they are baked into the base game now I consider them now part of the canon.

But otherwise any other mods are not canon. Unless Bethesda ads then into the game themselves or says other wise.

What I recall is that the paid mods in the special edition store are written as if they're canon, though personally I consider no mod, not even the anniversary mods, to be canon. Especially the Sheogorath one that seems to go against established lore. (You don't just give away the symbol of your seat of power...?!) But I digress, I hope that ZOS changes the name but based on the Telvanni cities it seems to be a part of the peninsula now. The reasoning for this seems to be (based on the Divayth Fyr Q&A) that Dunmer holdings shift often and maps aren't always accurate. So I suppose it's Telvanni at this point in time, but that does not mean it is in any other point in time.

I consider whatever zos / Bethesda say are canon canon. The mods are included in a new base game of the latest version of Skyrim there for they are canon.

But some mod where a guy is playing with a Light saber dressed as an anime cat girl that is not a canon. Mod.

But regardless from prior to this point necrom was not in the telvanni peninsula technically many have said this. So the question is are they retconning not mention lack of house indoril stuff ?

isadoraisacat

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

Yes, because we can see now that the map was not accurate. Sloppy lazy map makers. The bane of Tamriel.

The eso map has been stated many times to not match the prior canon.

I will not question or argue with ZOS. I just want a statement this is retconned. I will accept retcons form zos or Bethesda I just want to hear it from them changes were made to the lore. Because it doesn’t add up to me.

isadoraisacat

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

There is no retcon that I can see. This is because the "Telvanni Peninsula" does not appear to be a geographic description. It is a political one.

Another thing to remember is that peninsulas can be part of larger peninsulas and still retain identity with the larger one. Do you know how many peninsulas Florida has? They are still considered to be part of Florida.

The other problem is where is house indoril?
There has to be a retcon to explain that away.

isadoraisacat

Soarora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

UESP can be frustrating sometimes (like writing Skyrim mods like they're canon and saying that Mannimarco is an Aldmer), they're probably just following what information ZOS gives us, especially since it's been a long time since we've seen Necrom.

The only mods I consider canon are the mods included in Skyrim anniversary as they are baked into the base game now I consider them now part of the canon.

But otherwise any other mods are not canon. Unless Bethesda ads then into the game themselves or says other wise.

What I recall is that the paid mods in the special edition store are written as if they're canon, though personally I consider no mod, not even the anniversary mods, to be canon. Especially the Sheogorath one that seems to go against established lore. (You don't just give away the symbol of your seat of power...?!) But I digress, I hope that ZOS changes the name but based on the Telvanni cities it seems to be a part of the peninsula now. The reasoning for this seems to be (based on the Divayth Fyr Q&A) that Dunmer holdings shift often and maps aren't always accurate. So I suppose it's Telvanni at this point in time, but that does not mean it is in any other point in time.

Yes but that doesn’t explain how house indoril basically doesn’t exist at all.

I mean we all know the just come up with an idea and than retcon stuff around it so it fits. It is what it is… but I think something’s were over looked when naming this region.

Elsonso

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

Yes, because we can see now that the map was not accurate. Sloppy lazy map makers. The bane of Tamriel.

The eso map has been stated many times to not match the prior canon.

I will not question or argue with ZOS. I just want a statement this is retconned. I will accept retcons form zos or Bethesda I just want to hear it from them changes were made to the lore. Because it doesn’t add up to me.

With regard to the map section that was presented above... it is a rough political map depicting Morrowind province at an indeterminate point in time. It shows only the land mass outline and whatever cities and settlements they felt like including. No recon is needed to fill in details on that map, which can also correct mistakes, omissions, and "don't cares" in the map. This can even include rivers that, technically, make both the Necrom and the Telvanni Peninsula islands separated from the main Tamriel land mass.

isadoraisacat

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

Yes, because we can see now that the map was not accurate. Sloppy lazy map makers. The bane of Tamriel.

The eso map has been stated many times to not match the prior canon.

I will not question or argue with ZOS. I just want a statement this is retconned. I will accept retcons form zos or Bethesda I just want to hear it from them changes were made to the lore. Because it doesn’t add up to me.

With regard to the map section that was presented above... it is a rough political map depicting Morrowind province at an indeterminate point in time. It shows only the land mass outline and whatever cities and settlements they felt like including. No recon is needed to fill in details on that map, which can also correct mistakes, omissions, and "don't cares" in the map. This can even include rivers that, technically, make both the Necrom and the Telvanni Peninsula islands separated from the main Tamriel land mass.

Yes but during this time the political
Map should be house indoril… but telvanni cool so telvanni.

Tons of recons are needed in these entire series from top to bottom it is never consistent.

Ratzkifal

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

Yes, because we can see now that the map was not accurate. Sloppy lazy map makers. The bane of Tamriel.

The eso map has been stated many times to not match the prior canon.

I will not question or argue with ZOS. I just want a statement this is retconned. I will accept retcons form zos or Bethesda I just want to hear it from them changes were made to the lore. Because it doesn’t add up to me.

With regard to the map section that was presented above... it is a rough political map depicting Morrowind province at an indeterminate point in time. It shows only the land mass outline and whatever cities and settlements they felt like including. No recon is needed to fill in details on that map, which can also correct mistakes, omissions, and "don't cares" in the map. This can even include rivers that, technically, make both the Necrom and the Telvanni Peninsula islands separated from the main Tamriel land mass.

Yes but during this time the political
Map should be house indoril… but telvanni cool so telvanni.

Tons of recons are needed in these entire series from top to bottom it is never consistent.

No, not quite. It's honestly a bit messy because of how inconsistently the peninsula was drawn before. The description of what parts are controlled by which House were describing it relative to the inner sea. South of Vvardenfell along the coast of the mainland belonged to House Indoril, the mainland coast east of it belonged to the Telvanni. So depending on how that peninsula is shaped, Necrom would either end up being south of Vvardenfell, or east of Vvardenfell. ZOS ended up using a map where Necrom is east of Vvardenfell and that puts it in Telvanni lands if we follow the description to the letter.
However, I do think, being a Temple city, it should be Indoril controlled. The loremaster archive also gave us a good excuse on why it isn't Indoril controlled anymore. House Indoril is part of the Pact. House Telvanni isn't. That makes it impossible for House Indoril to enforce Pact law within Necrom as the surrounding lands (according to the old lore description relating to the current map) belongs to the Telvanni, meaning that you could not guarantee the freedom of an Argonian trying to travel from one Pact territory to another Pact territory, Necrom. So they have to give up on Necrom. But the Telvanni also cannot take over Necrom themselves, because it is a holy site to all Dunmer, which would provoke a war with all the other Houses (and the Pact) over access to Necrom. And so the peaceful solution is for Necrom to be neutral and for the Telvanni to not mess with it in the meantime.
Personally I would have preferred if it was actually still in Indoril control, just because that adds a messy sense of realism, kind of like the Northern Ireland situation in Brexit, or West Berlin during the cold war.

LunaFlora

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Telvanni_Peninsula
Necrom is found on a different peninsula found south of the Telvanni Peninsula, and the two are separated by an inlet.
it still says it but zos and bethesda are in control of lore uesp just documents it so it doesn't matter

Also if necrom is not in the Telvanni peninsula why is zos using the term… after that mistake than seeing uesp I really feel a retcon is being pushed.

Necrom seems more like a separate island on the map

Can you call this an island when it’s not detached ?

i was referring to the eso map on pts not the anthology map

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Good I did not delete this.

isadoraisacat

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Good I did not delete this.

This is what I’m talking about. Is this now a retcon? That’s all I want to know… it feels like they have retconned things in relation to the telvanni peninsula and what lies there as well as necrom as a place and as well as house indoril.

Dr_Con

In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

-Divayth Fyr, https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63811

Use what the in-game map uses to refer to Necrom when playing ESO. When playing any other TES game or mod, use what they use. Maps are tools for the mapmaker, there's your lore explanation for any confusion. And don't forget that the terrain of Tamriel can change as well as the political boundaries. Heck, maps IRL look way different now than they did 400 years ago, nevermind the fact that you have the Tribunal who could definitely level entire continents and change the landscape if they wanted.

kaushad

Dr_Con wrote: »

-Divayth Fyr, https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63811

Use what the in-game map uses to refer to Necrom when playing ESO. When playing any other TES game or mod, use what they use. Maps are tools for the mapmaker, there's your lore explanation for any confusion. And don't forget that the terrain of Tamriel can change as well as the political boundaries. Heck, maps IRL look way different now than they did 400 years ago, nevermind the fact that you have the Tribunal who could definitely level entire continents and change the landscape if they wanted.

Why all this focus on the map? We take our player characters to places depicted on the map. It's not as if some Telvanni cartographer just drew a line far to the south out of hubris. It's the Telvanni Peninsula because House Telvanni is in fact the only Great House with permenant holdings in the vast majority of eastern Morrowind because the developers said so.

That decision has made Morrowind as see it in ESO less diverse, which is to say less interesting. In another time, that region might be full of Indoril whatever it is that Indoril do. But if we don't have a game set in that time and place and we can't actually visit it, what does it matter?