Why are healers getting that much hate the last few weeks?

Ren_TheRedFox

Hey guys,

the other day I noticed that lately many have a hate for healers in PvP. Many of these people think that we are bad and spoil their day because we are "doing our job"... healing .... I don't know why but apparently by now everyone who heals is a bad player because they let their group members live and the damage dealers can't kill anyone.... Personally I think that's the biggest nonsense because healers have always existed just like damage dealers .... No one complains when damage dealers filled can kill 50 people but everyone is suddenly extremely crappy because one person can leave 50 people alive.
But the problem is not the healer but something else....
We all know that since Mara's Balm was released many damage dealers have become tankier and barely killable. Besides that, many also use a Resto staff as their backbar weapon just to have access to Life Giver. And still the people who really like to heal get all the hate for it and I think this is not ok. I would be interested to know what you think about this, because I personally am about to take a break from the game because of all the hate I get as a "healer", even though I love this game so much.

VaranisArano

Fellow PVP healer here.

Battlegrounds is a game mode that tends to do better when clashes are fast paced and people die/win relatively quickly. Healers can be really beneficial, but their impact is usually to draw out fights. Which can be annoying for the losing side. If you're winning, you're doing something right.

But I mainly play in Cyrodiil, where the negativity I get as a group healer doesn't really happen in-game, so much as when players on the forums like to talk about how low-skill healers like me are once they pull us out of our groups.

To which I laugh.

Because, uh, yeah...I'm a healer. My whole build is meant to provide support for my group. When you successfully pull me away from my group, what am I gonna do? Heal you to death?

And again, if you're winning, you're doing something right.

Sorry to hear you've had a rash of negative experiences. I hope you can continue to enjoy playing a healer in PVP!

Kusto

Team that has a healer in BGs usually wins. That's why the hate. Pvp is supposed to be about skill not rng. When I solo queue and some other team gets a healer and I only get noobs then how is this fair.

disintegr8

Kusto wrote: »

Team that has a healer in BGs usually wins. That's why the hate. Pvp is supposed to be about skill not rng. When I solo queue and some other team gets a healer and I only get noobs then how is this fair.

PVP is not about skill, it's about who has the fastest ping and the least amount of lag.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Kusto that's not another player's fault. Healers enjoy BGs too but it's not our fault that we end up being mixed in groups with other healers. That's more likely a game issue so blaming other people and hate whispering them to spoil their day crosses the border.

FeedbackOnly

Healers are always first to be blamed....

Aelorin

For PvP: Every group is allowed to take as much healers as they want. There needs to be a balance in tank/damage/healing. The problem that I hear is that dmg dealers are too tanky, I don't think that is the healers fault.

In PvE: Healers are needed in end game content, no problems there I think.

Fun fact: I was healing the other day, and my cat jumped at the desk. I said to group, if something weird happens it's the cat.
They responded: Yeah yeah, don't blame the healer, blame the cat Fun times hahaha.

DocFrost72

Kusto wrote: »

Team that has a healer in BGs usually wins. That's why the hate. Pvp is supposed to be about skill not rng. When I solo queue and some other team gets a healer and I only get noobs then how is this fair.

The healer isn't the reason you queued solo. If you want a healer in your team, you could always find one!

You might have to stop bashing them first though.

Dr_Con

Heals in PVP go together like white on rice

Might as well tell people to stack heals on loading screens.

ZDunlain

I am a dedicated healer in PvP with lot of time and experience, first of all, mostly all players that I play with are very greateful with my support. I found some situations where I got hate, for example one guy called me healbot like healing is for noobs (man we need to know how to positionate, when cleanse, when apply support procs and have all sinergies on time for people that dont stop moving, what to do when we get focused because in 3 minutes of fight you will get all the enemy team focus, even less time when you use the first healing skill). That guy told me that I am a noob and he is a 1vX and I was like yeah, 40k HP warden doing circles in a rock or keep, what a joke, and the problem is being a healer hahahahaha.

Lot of people also don't realize that most of the time they are alive near a healer, is because the healer, not their skills, then those guys call you healbot, yea, I am sure they can survive 3 coldfires and some oils on them. Healers are a force multiplier.

Also one guy told me in Cyrodiil zone chat that healers are the problem there, and server (EU) performance problems is because of healers fault with all the HoT. Man, yes, not the 2012 server architecture and, in my opinion, the poor maintenance of Cyrodiil all over these years. Also the guy that said this was another 35k HP stamdk, arguing with me that DK are underperforming on this patch. Well the same history, people that don't know anything about healing.

Also when they insult you, I usually reply with "Bro who are you HAHAHAHAHA" and ignore them, the best way to deal with haters.

Also the curious thing is that I have three builds with my fav character, one to heal randoms, another to heal my ball group and the last one a stamplar. And I have many killing blows with my stamplar on the guy that called me healbot.

Keep healing and enjoy the game the way you like!

axi

I would say hate in generał is going more towards crosshealing rather than healers but certain setups like 45k+ HP warden healbots are lately becoming an issue. Healers becoming tankier than tanks is a bit silly.

NordSwordnBoard

Simplest reason may be they could kill that player before, and with you healing they can't. Maybe they even lose because of your healing. This is good, unfortunately you're the scapegoat the enemy ego needs to feel better.

Ren_TheRedFox

@axi those people with 45k+ HP are not healers at all in my opinion.... Sure Polar Wind scales off your max HP but I rather have more Magicka or Stamina to be able to cast other skills which scale of those two stats. It's true that people got tankier but a healer has to be tanky but also has to be "healy".... I'm a dedicated BG healer and I never run more than 35k HP cause I'm not a tank ... I'm a healer. I know that people are almost unkillable now in PvP cause they're so tanky but I blame sets like Mara's Balm at that point cause thanks to that set everyone has access to purges now without using a purge skill... DKs are generally tanky but boosting that up with a purge set made them even tankier and yet people complain about Healers instead of those sets. I really don't get it why though....

jaws343

Kusto wrote: »

Team that has a healer in BGs usually wins. That's why the hate. Pvp is supposed to be about skill not rng. When I solo queue and some other team gets a healer and I only get noobs then how is this fair.

Yeah, in the random queue, a healer can basically break a match.

A nice little anecdotal example.

A few years ago, I was just messing around during one of the mayhem events, running my pure PVE build in BGs. The build did a lot of sustained damage, but was incredibly glass cannony for PVP.

In most matches, without a healer, my K/D was in the 10/10 range. I got kills, but I mostly died when looked at.

In one match however, the team I landed on had a healer. Well, that healer recognized that I was doing the most damage on the team and decided to focus heal me. Kept me alive the entire match, where I went 30/0 and our team ran away with the match.

That's the general problem with healers in BGs. They can so overwhelmingly skew a team that isn't even close to a fair match up. It's one thing in the group queue, where teams can be optimized, it's entirely different in solo where you have no control.

Ren_TheRedFox

@jaws343 it is true that healers are a game changer in BGs. But guys we're also players just like everyone else... We love it to keep our group members alive and I don't see a problem in it to queue up for a solo BG as a healer. At the end of the day we're also paying to play this game and we shouldn't have to deal with that much hate. I agree with you about the group BG thing cause then most teams only have 1 healer and 3 dps but that's smth you won't get right now cause the group queues take ages and people leave the queue after a bit.... I queued up with friends for a BG and we waited 1 hour and 6 minutes or smth like that to be able to get into a BG and I think that's the big problem here. I personally think this problem could be solved if we would be able to select our roles before we queue up for a solo BG like the dungeon roles cause then every team would have only 1 healer instead of 2, 3 or even 4 cause I had that several times too and for me personally it was funny to be in a full healer time but I know it wasn't for my enemies .... But like I said .... it's not our fault and we shouldn't get the hate for it.

Daoin

I would also say if you queued for level random solo 50+ BG and theres an option to group join then had the cheek to call the other team members noobs its because a personal point was not resolved i.e the other team just happened to win that one. and the hate spread. i have done alot of BG's with healer and its great fun, never had much hate thrown at me but it has been and its going to happen no matter what class you are at some point in random solo.

Rogue_WolfESO

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

people complain about Healers instead of those sets. I really don't get it why though....

Probably because those complainers are rocking the crutch sets to 1vX

ZOS_Phoenix

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Jierdanit

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

it is true that healers are a game changer in BGs. But guys we're also players just like everyone else... We love it to keep our group members alive and I don't see a problem in it to queue up for a solo BG as a healer. At the end of the day we're also paying to play this game and we shouldn't have to deal with that much hate.

Yeah you might just be players too, but usually a dps or even a tank wont make the BG horrible for everyone on the other teams, while a healer who isnt very bad can easily completely change the outcome of a BG.

I wouldnt mind healers if they had the same impact on a BG as other roles do, but currently 1 healer is worth at least 2 dps if the players are similarly strong.

chessalavakia_ESO

ESO's combat kind of runs into issues when players optimize much.

Healing is generally overpowered and healing scales quite well with damage.

Thus, if you don't have any healers adding a healer is highly beneficial to effectiveness. However, as healing scales quite well with damage you can run into situations where everybody on the team can heal which makes a character that just heals either a liability or a someone that produces a stalemate.

Necrotech_Master

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Healers are always first to be blamed....

i thought that was tanks lol

FirmamentOfStars

As others mentioned already, having a healer in your team while the others do no, is a great but random advantage in a bg, which usually leads to the feeling of helplesness for the enenmy. But this issue also is very dependent on the game mode of the bg and how enemy teams interact with each other. In high MMR bg matches, bgs do not even end at all with a winner during the 15 minute timer, when all teams have a healer, just because nobody dies at all.

But normally you get more hate in cyrodiil as a healer, because you either belong to a ballgroup (which is already a problem in itself since it really causes performance issues and is almost unkillable) or you heal randoms. Also here, you basically are not doing anything wrong, but you help people, who otherwise probably would die quickly. Many people argued before about how low a ballgroup is, since you just stack heals and more heals there and obviously, that argument is true and wrong at the same time.
Last thing is to heal randoms, mostly people that can be killed easely even when they are "en masse". I guess you receive hate there from these soloplayers, since you deny their easy kills. Tp some degree its also understandable, since soloers normally work pretty hard for their kills and for them having their effort just smashed by one healer can be frustrating.

Solariken

In a properly designed MMO the healers are made to be the squishiest because they are the most impactful. But in ESO healers are godmode megatanks that need 4+ players ult dumping at the same time to hope to bring down.

Couple that with the fact that ESO has skill-less smart heals that always find the lowest HP player for you and redundant HOTs that stack.

Healers get hate because it's by far the easiest role and to be honest, the most OP role in PvP.

Daoin

if you think healing is easy im guessing you dont have much healing experience, if your healing is going nowhere for some reason or another either you can change skills or leave the team. while the haters will chose not to just leave and instead throw around the hate no matter why. this can happen alot with any role honestly its not just healers. sometimes even if directed into the group and not yourself it can be just as bad to see like your being positioned by one player and have to say look just do your thing or leave will you or im just here for fun are best replies i have

Ren_TheRedFox

@Solariken I can tell you that healing by far is probably the hardest role to play cause not only you have to keep yourself alive but also your team. As healer you'll get focused from basically everyone who's not in your team... on top of that you have to make sure to keep yourself alive and also your group members ... cause a dead healer is not a good healer and a healer with a dead group is useless at that point. Besides you always have to make sure to keep your short buffs up like Major Mending which expires every 4 seconds soo basically you have to make heavy attacks every 2-3 seconds to have it up and I can tell you as someone who has healed for years in PvP now ... you won't be able too keep Major Mending up.

Solariken

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Solariken I can tell you that healing by far is probably the hardest role to play cause not only you have to keep yourself alive but also your team. As healer you'll get focused from basically everyone who's not in your team... on top of that you have to make sure to keep yourself alive and also your group members ... cause a dead healer is not a good healer and a healer with a dead group is useless at that point. Besides you always have to make sure to keep your short buffs up like Major Mending which expires every 4 seconds soo basically you have to make heavy attacks every 2-3 seconds to have it up and I can tell you as someone who has healed for years in PvP now ... you won't be able too keep Major Mending up.

IMO it's the easiest role by a large margin. In BG you can just don heavy armor, hold block, and spam heals/ults.

At least DD have to put their guard down to go offensive, healers never have to come out of a turtle. On top of that, healing in ESO doesn't even require targeting unless you're using Psijic light attacks for some reason lol.

Honestly surprised anyone would say healing is difficult in ESO.

FirmamentOfStars

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Solariken I can tell you that healing by far is probably the hardest role to play cause not only you have to keep yourself alive but also your team. As healer you'll get focused from basically everyone who's not in your team... on top of that you have to make sure to keep yourself alive and also your group members ... cause a dead healer is not a good healer and a healer with a dead group is useless at that point. Besides you always have to make sure to keep your short buffs up like Major Mending which expires every 4 seconds soo basically you have to make heavy attacks every 2-3 seconds to have it up and I can tell you as someone who has healed for years in PvP now ... you won't be able too keep Major Mending up.

I disagree here. Obviously being a good healer is not easy at all, but already being an effective healer is very easy. Thats why healers get hated for, since many heal abilities are easy to apply and can save lives. You do not have to target an individual, a low health player could stand behind you out of sight and you still might save him with a 10k+ burst heal. A decent group makes the healers duty even easier, since they wont let you be the target of the enemy easely, will cover you and by having similar movement with you, ground aoe healing will be even more effective.

As said, being an effective healer is easy, being a good healer surely is more difficult, but I strongly believe that being a good solo player is by far more difficult.

Lebkuchen

Solariken wrote: »

[...]
Honestly surprised anyone would say healing is difficult in ESO.

Idk if you like to play in bigger groups, but you can feel it if you have good healers, or people who just spam random skills and die all the time. Situational awareness is needed for all roles, but i think the groupleader, negates and healers have the most stressful job in Cyrodiil. They always have to read the room and keep at least one eye open, while the rest of the group can relax and follow the callouts most of the time. And even the best healers can't keep a stupid group alive forever. It's always a team effort.

Smaller fights are different. But if you want to call healing in PvP easy, i dare you to join a big pug in Cyrodiil.

axi

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@axi those people with 45k+ HP are not healers at all in my opinion.... Sure Polar Wind scales off your max HP but I rather have more Magicka or Stamina to be able to cast other skills which scale of those two stats. It's true that people got tankier but a healer has to be tanky but also has to be "healy".... I'm a dedicated BG healer and I never run more than 35k HP cause I'm not a tank ... I'm a healer. I know that people are almost unkillable now in PvP cause they're so tanky but I blame sets like Mara's Balm at that point cause thanks to that set everyone has access to purges now without using a purge skill... DKs are generally tanky but boosting that up with a purge set made them even tankier and yet people complain about Healers instead of those sets. I really don't get it why though....

If someone ends a match with 2M+ healing than it's really hard to not call that person a healer. While polar wind is strong it's not the only heal that high HP warden healers are using. High health is playing two roles in that particular setup because it both boost a healing potential and also survivability of a healer himself. Wep/spell dmg have better scaling for heals than max mag/stam so stacking those is after certain point is pointles.

People have always complained about healers because of the way how healing works. it's way easier to effectively heal than to effectively deal damag. Many heals find the target that needs them the most automatically and in general are way easier to use than damage abilities. heals also require less stats in the scaling because on top of all regular stats damage also needs penetration so heals are reaching higher tooltips easier. Imagine if there would a ability in the game that would deal high burst damage with 100% penetration automatically on a target with the lowest HP within 36 meters. That ability would be called OP as hell yet this is excatly how many burst crossheals work. Now add the easiness of HoT stacking on top of that and You have a disbalance between healing and dealing damage.

Lebkuchen

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

[...] being a good solo player is by far more difficult.

I agree with everything you are saying. But Cyrodiil is not a solo player game. It's a bug war with buffs, sets, skills and roles that are supposed to make groups stronger than solo players. And that's what some solo players have big problems with. So they start hate-whispering the healers and supporters... Of course you can play solo too, but then you will have to accept that you can't just kill everyone one by one all the time.

Lebkuchen

Big war, not bug war