Crypt of Hearts 2 hardest HM ever

mocap

Players don't know how to activate it and chat immediately erupts into heaps of insults. DD blames the tank regarding ghost. Tank blame the DDs regarding overDPS. Then either someone quit or a vote kick begins. That is total cringe for base game dungeon.

Just add HM scroll.

jaws343

It really is fairly simple with even a mediocre amount of communication going into it:

Tank holds the ghosts as far away from the boss as possible. DPS go slow on the boss until enough ghosts are out. The DPS burn boss. As long as the tank is pulling the ghosts away from the boss, and not taunting the boss, there is zero risk of the ghosts being killed.

Lebkuchen

It's not just Crypt of Hearts 2. Dungeons (and trials) have always been a place where some impatient players just insult, kick and leave, instead of trying to communicate, explain and progress until it's over. If they don't have the time and patience to play hardmodes with inexperienced players, why would they use the dungeon finder to find a group?

I guess the easiest way to avoid conflict would be to give solo players comparable amounts of keys and transmute crystals from other sources. Maybe solo arenas could work.

Luke_Flamesword

DPS go slow on the boss until enough ghosts are out.

It's very intuitive to not damage boss too much as DD

Punishing for having too much dps doesn't sound like good implementation of HM. It should be all about activating additional challenge which fails only when group is wiped, which gives chance to try again. It's just stupid when you can loose HM by accident and just finish whole dungeon without chance to try again. PUGs should have room for mistakes and problems with communication.

jaws343

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

DPS go slow on the boss until enough ghosts are out.

It's very intuitive to not damage boss too much as DD

Punishing for having too much dps doesn't sound like good implementation of HM. It should be all about activating additional challenge which fails only when group is wiped, which gives chance to try again. It's just stupid when you can loose HM by accident and just finish whole dungeon without chance to try again. PUGs should have room for mistakes and problems with communication.

I mean, that is what communication is for...

There are plenty of non-intuitive hardmodes.

jecks33

as tank I have to spam in group chat "don't kill the ghosts" every f***ing time but dds keep killing the ghosts even if I'm on the opposite side of the arena. This happens with 90% of pug groups.

It's a nightmare....

Kartalin

*imagines having a pug dungeon group that can over-dps*

UNSeki

jaws343 wrote: »

It really is fairly simple with even a mediocre amount of communication going into it:

Tank holds the ghosts as far away from the boss as possible. DPS go slow on the boss until enough ghosts are out. The DPS burn boss. As long as the tank is pulling the ghosts away from the boss, and not taunting the boss, there is zero risk of the ghosts being killed.

The tank can still use a ranged taunt on the boss. This way, the tank is the only one taking damage and the healer can focus him.

Blood_again

mocap wrote: »

Just add HM scroll.

Please don't do it.

It is one of the mechanics that demonstrate people how important is the communication and mechanic awareness in group. It shows that high dps and "kill everything you can see" are not the ultimate solutions. It pushes any group to communicate to achieve the common goal which is golden I think.
I think it is one of the best pre-trial places to prepare people for trial mechanics.

I experienced HM fail there many times, because people sometimes just don't care. But I have no regrets. This mechanic worth it.

CoronHR

yeah i don't know, we just did hm and there were five ghosts alive when the boss pulled the sword. but we didn't get hm. does have to be exactly four? does the boss have to complete pulling the sword before you can kill the ghosts? he goes for the sword, and then you can kill the ghosts right? it's an annoying hm mech, this one, imo

N3CR01

It took me ages to get a no death run on CoH2... not because of the final boss, but the one before it.
Everyone always says they know what to do then either dies to the explosion or kills someone else with it.

AlterBlika

Maybe pugs didn't want HM to begin with if they never cared to read quest stages where it's written

ElderSmitter

mocap wrote: »

Players don't know how to activate it and chat immediately erupts into heaps of insults. DD blames the tank regarding ghost. Tank blame the DDs regarding overDPS. Then either someone quit or a vote kick begins. That is total cringe for base game dungeon.

Just add HM scroll.

It literally says leave 4 wraiths alive.

mocap

NPCs indeed do voice mechanics often, briefly and to the point. But let's be honest - how can you listen to them when you have other things to worry about?

Braffin

mocap wrote: »

NPCs indeed do voice mechanics often, briefly and to the point. But let's be honest - how can you listen to them when you have other things to worry about?

It helps a lot to slow down purposefully if mechanics are still unfamiliar to the group. Figuring out those mechanics together is one of the most satisfying parts of learning new encounters. Part of that process is looking for hints the game is throwing at us, for example by all the talk during fights.

My advice: Don't make winning unfamiliar encounters the first priority, but understanding them. After a few failures and analyzing the reasons for them the understanding will come, making said encounters trivial in all subsequent fights.

If that's possible while doing highly outdated content (CoH 2 released 2015) in a team of randoms, which are more likely just interested in doing a quick daily, is another question tho.

El_Borracho

Its not hard. But I never run this in a pug on veteran when its a pledge. Its just asking for frustration. Same goes for BC 2 and Wayrest 2

Necrotech_Master

CoronHR wrote: »

yeah i don't know, we just did hm and there were five ghosts alive when the boss pulled the sword. but we didn't get hm. does have to be exactly four? does the boss have to complete pulling the sword before you can kill the ghosts? he goes for the sword, and then you can kill the ghosts right? it's an annoying hm mech, this one, imo

the ghosts have to be alive when he goes to pull the sword (this will despawn the ghosts i believe)

as long as there is at least 4 or more alive when he pulls the sword it should count it

i remember doing that dungeo0n HM back in 2014 lol, quite a bit more challenging then than it is today lol

AvalonRanger

mocap wrote: »

Players don't know how to activate it and chat immediately erupts into heaps of insults. DD blames the tank regarding ghost. Tank blame the DDs regarding overDPS. Then either someone quit or a vote kick begins. That is total cringe for base game dungeon.

Just add HM scroll.

Agree. I think that ZOS doesn't understand decent game design.....always.
Recently, they made tutorial zone before boss fighting for the new DLC dungeon.
But it's still vague or bit unexpected.

Hapexamendios

I have to disagree. I like that there are some hard modes that add a little variety to what you need to accomplish rather than just reading a scroll.

Daoin

i have a better idea, please remove the possibility of being pulled into pledges when joining a random dungeon queue i think watching a group squabble and ask for a wipe in fungal 1 because the hm scroll was not used is laughable. or better yet dont expect random groups to want to do every hm because individuals are pulled into a pledges and use the group finder, attacking the ghost = dont want or dont know....time to move on and finish regardless

AvalonRanger

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I have to disagree. I like that there are some hard modes that add a little variety to what you need to accomplish rather than just reading a scroll.

"I like that there are some hard modes that add a little variety...."

Agree, but...It is really hard work to explain HM mech for the newbies.
(And Dardshade2 HM lever mech is also bit vague HM sign.)

mocap

Daoin wrote: »

attacking the ghost = dont want or dont know....time to move on and finish regardless

Original post was created before keys reward changes, when Normal = Vet non HM (1 key).
This days, struggle HM just for keys is indeed kinda pointless.

Wonder if people are still posting in zone chat "LF... 6 keys"

Necrotech_Master

mocap wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

attacking the ghost = dont want or dont know....time to move on and finish regardless

Original post was created before keys reward changes, when Normal = Vet non HM (1 key).
This days, struggle HM just for keys is indeed kinda pointless.

Wonder if people are still posting in zone chat "LF... 6 keys"

the extra keys are only given for the DLC pledge, the non-dlc pledges are still the same (1 key for normal or non-hm vet, and 2 keys for vet HM)

the DLC pledge is 2 keys normal, 3 vet, 4 vet HM, but honestly i find it easier and quicker to just run the dlc pledge on normal and still get the 2 keys which is the same as a vet HM non dlc pledge lol