Does deadly strike work with toxic barrage?

JakelDK

At one point it looks like this was not the case (bug?) But I cant find any posts talking about if this was fixed or not. The lastes info i was able to find was from 2020 when the set apparently did not affect the ult (which it should seeing as it is a channeled ability)
So im just wondering if anyone can tell me if this works with toxic barrage or not before i invest in the set grind

virtus753

Dr_Con wrote: »

Deadly Strikes doesn't work on abilities that say "Cast Time," only "Channeled Time" and DoT portions of abilities.

Some common examples of "Cast Time" abilities include lethal arrow and crystal fragments. People frequently try to this set to see if these skills are buffed, specifically, when they are not. To know if an ability will not be buffed by Deadly Strikes just check the tooltip to see if it is a Channeled ability or an ability with a cast time.

To answer your question, Toxic Barrage (the Bow ultimate) is both a channeled ability and a DoT, both portions of this effect are buffed by Deadly Strikes.

The issue was it was bugged and not applying to Toxic Barrage for a while.

I can confirm it does in fact work now.

ETA: What likely happened was that Toxic Barrage was unintentionally skipped over when Deadly Strike changed from affecting only DoTs to affecting DoTs and channels, which happened (in an undocumented change) with Dragonhold/Update 24. That's when Jabs (explicitly) and Flurry (the later also undocumented except for a small implication in phrasing) were changed from DoTs to direct damage. Deadly Strike was adjusted so it would continue to buff Jabs and Flurry, but since each set and skill interaction needs to be adjusted whenever they change proc conditions, Toxic Barrage was apparently missed in the initial round of updates. At some point it was eventually fixed.

Dr_Con

Deadly Strikes doesn't work on abilities that say "Cast Time," only "Channeled Time" and DoT portions of abilities.

Some common examples of "Cast Time" abilities include lethal arrow and crystal fragments. People frequently try to this set to see if these skills are buffed, specifically, when they are not. To know if an ability will not be buffed by Deadly Strikes just check the tooltip to see if it is a Channeled ability or an ability with a cast time.

To answer your question, Toxic Barrage (the Bow ultimate) is both a channeled ability and a DoT, both portions of this effect are buffed by Deadly Strikes.

JakelDK

virtus753 wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

Deadly Strikes doesn't work on abilities that say "Cast Time," only "Channeled Time" and DoT portions of abilities.

Some common examples of "Cast Time" abilities include lethal arrow and crystal fragments. People frequently try to this set to see if these skills are buffed, specifically, when they are not. To know if an ability will not be buffed by Deadly Strikes just check the tooltip to see if it is a Channeled ability or an ability with a cast time.

To answer your question, Toxic Barrage (the Bow ultimate) is both a channeled ability and a DoT, both portions of this effect are buffed by Deadly Strikes.

The issue was it was bugged and not applying to Toxic Barrage for a while.

I can confirm it does in fact work now.

ETA: What likely happened was that Toxic Barrage was unintentionally skipped over when Deadly Strike changed from affecting only DoTs to affecting DoTs and channels, which happened (in an undocumented change) with Dragonhold/Update 24. That's when Jabs (explicitly) and Flurry (the later also undocumented except for a small implication in phrasing) were changed from DoTs to direct damage. Deadly Strike was adjusted so it would continue to buff Jabs and Flurry, but since each set and skill interaction needs to be adjusted whenever they change proc conditions, Toxic Barrage was apparently missed in the initial round of updates. At some point it was eventually fixed.

Thank you!

The_Titan_Tim

Can someone test this with Cruel Flurry vMA DW?
On console it’s bugged right now and the ultimate isn’t getting the increased damage.

virtus753

Fully edited: Cruel Flurry correctly does not work on Toxic Barrage.

Thought it was doing a strange 4-second buff, but it was Sundered doing a debuff.

Update: the first part of Toxic Barrage is direct damage. It is not a DoT and is therefore buffed by Master at Arms but properly not buffed by Cruel Flurry. It is not a bug.

It is likely that the devs do not consider Toxic Barrage to be a DoT ability in the same way they do not consider Hardened Armor to be a shield ability. They are thinking about what it does primarily. Just like they do not consider Whip a stamina ability even though it now costs stam to use. You can see that the DoT of Toxic Barrage is exactly parallel to Hardened Armor’s shield because it is only added by that one morph. The base morph Rapid Fire and the Ballista morph do not have a DoT component. Therefore the DoT is auxiliary and this skill is not a “DoT ability.”

The_Titan_Tim

virtus753 wrote: »

Fully edited: Cruel Flurry correctly does not work on Toxic Barrage.

Thought it was doing a strange 4-second buff, but it was Sundered doing a debuff.

Update: the first part of Toxic Barrage is direct damage. It is not a DoT and is therefore buffed by Master at Arms but properly not buffed by Cruel Flurry. It is not a bug.

It is likely that the devs do not consider Toxic Barrage to be a DoT ability in the same way they do not consider Hardened Armor to be a shield ability. They are thinking about what it does primarily. Just like they do not consider Whip a stamina ability even though it now costs stam to use. You can see that the DoT of Toxic Barrage is exactly parallel to Hardened Armor’s shield because it is only added by that one morph. The base morph Rapid Fire and the Ballista morph do not have a DoT component. Therefore the DoT is auxiliary and this skill is not a “DoT ability.”

I understand how that conclusion could be made as technically you are firing multiple arrows, I would suggest the wording on the ability changed to more accurately represent that it’s not a DoT.

If it said, “Ballista fires X arrows within 4 seconds, each dealing Y damage.” it would be more in line with Flurry and Puncturing Strikes.

virtus753

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Fully edited: Cruel Flurry correctly does not work on Toxic Barrage.

Thought it was doing a strange 4-second buff, but it was Sundered doing a debuff.

Update: the first part of Toxic Barrage is direct damage. It is not a DoT and is therefore buffed by Master at Arms but properly not buffed by Cruel Flurry. It is not a bug.

It is likely that the devs do not consider Toxic Barrage to be a DoT ability in the same way they do not consider Hardened Armor to be a shield ability. They are thinking about what it does primarily. Just like they do not consider Whip a stamina ability even though it now costs stam to use. You can see that the DoT of Toxic Barrage is exactly parallel to Hardened Armor’s shield because it is only added by that one morph. The base morph Rapid Fire and the Ballista morph do not have a DoT component. Therefore the DoT is auxiliary and this skill is not a “DoT ability.”

I understand how that conclusion could be made as technically you are firing multiple arrows, I would suggest the wording on the ability changed to more accurately represent that it’s not a DoT.

If it said, “Ballista fires X arrows within 4 seconds, each dealing Y damage.” it would be more in line with Flurry and Puncturing Strikes.

Yes, wording is definitely something to work on. There is no reliable indication whether something (especially a channel) is direct or DoT.

The only way to tell here is to test Master at Arms and Thaumaturge to see which works.

ZOS_Phoenix

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to the Combat & Character Mechanics category, which we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Necrotech_Master

virtus753 wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Fully edited: Cruel Flurry correctly does not work on Toxic Barrage.

Thought it was doing a strange 4-second buff, but it was Sundered doing a debuff.

Update: the first part of Toxic Barrage is direct damage. It is not a DoT and is therefore buffed by Master at Arms but properly not buffed by Cruel Flurry. It is not a bug.

It is likely that the devs do not consider Toxic Barrage to be a DoT ability in the same way they do not consider Hardened Armor to be a shield ability. They are thinking about what it does primarily. Just like they do not consider Whip a stamina ability even though it now costs stam to use. You can see that the DoT of Toxic Barrage is exactly parallel to Hardened Armor’s shield because it is only added by that one morph. The base morph Rapid Fire and the Ballista morph do not have a DoT component. Therefore the DoT is auxiliary and this skill is not a “DoT ability.”

I understand how that conclusion could be made as technically you are firing multiple arrows, I would suggest the wording on the ability changed to more accurately represent that it’s not a DoT.

If it said, “Ballista fires X arrows within 4 seconds, each dealing Y damage.” it would be more in line with Flurry and Puncturing Strikes.

Yes, wording is definitely something to work on. There is no reliable indication whether something (especially a channel) is direct or DoT.

The only way to tell here is to test Master at Arms and Thaumaturge to see which works.

i usually can tell by the dmg number color

the orange number is the dot, white number is direct

but i agree that it certainly could be more clear, since they have several ways to describe dots themselves (x dmg over y seconds, or x dmg per 1 second/every second)

virtus753

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Fully edited: Cruel Flurry correctly does not work on Toxic Barrage.

Thought it was doing a strange 4-second buff, but it was Sundered doing a debuff.

Update: the first part of Toxic Barrage is direct damage. It is not a DoT and is therefore buffed by Master at Arms but properly not buffed by Cruel Flurry. It is not a bug.

It is likely that the devs do not consider Toxic Barrage to be a DoT ability in the same way they do not consider Hardened Armor to be a shield ability. They are thinking about what it does primarily. Just like they do not consider Whip a stamina ability even though it now costs stam to use. You can see that the DoT of Toxic Barrage is exactly parallel to Hardened Armor’s shield because it is only added by that one morph. The base morph Rapid Fire and the Ballista morph do not have a DoT component. Therefore the DoT is auxiliary and this skill is not a “DoT ability.”

I understand how that conclusion could be made as technically you are firing multiple arrows, I would suggest the wording on the ability changed to more accurately represent that it’s not a DoT.

If it said, “Ballista fires X arrows within 4 seconds, each dealing Y damage.” it would be more in line with Flurry and Puncturing Strikes.

Yes, wording is definitely something to work on. There is no reliable indication whether something (especially a channel) is direct or DoT.

The only way to tell here is to test Master at Arms and Thaumaturge to see which works.

i usually can tell by the dmg number color

the orange number is the dot, white number is direct

but i agree that it certainly could be more clear, since they have several ways to describe dots themselves (x dmg over y seconds, or x dmg per 1 second/every second)

Usually that’s reliable, yep! But it is still registering Flurry (for example) as a DoT, which is problematic. I don’t know what else is bugged and so don’t trust the color.

Master at Arms and Thaumaturge are also likewise only mostly reliable. At two points after Flurry became direct, both those CP buffed it. Obviously that was in violation of their rules for damage types, so they fixed it the once, then reverted it accidentally, then fixed it again. There’s also an issue where sometimes a tooltip doesn’t properly reflect CP bonuses. When Master at Arms was reintroduced, it didn’t change any tooltips at all. Now it does, for most things at least - but who knows what might have been missed?

It’s good to have so many ways to check, but it’s not a good thing that we sometimes need all those things to be sure we understand what the developers intend.