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Just Revamp the Original Classes

merpins
merpins
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Rather than just going in and trying to freshen up the original base-game classes with new, albeit worse, animations (like Templar), just go in and revamp them completely. Not everything needs to be changed, of course, but I'm not just talking a new coat of paint and new animations for old skills either.

I'm talking going in and reworking or scrapping skills that are either underutilized by players, or ones that are explicitly problematic for the game. Jabs was a bad change, but the rework to Mist Form is actually really interesting and good example of a good way to revamp problematic skills. Keep the skills that work and that players love, and use the original skill trees as a framework to redesign the classes a bit. Not every class needs a huge overhaul, but they could all use some TLC.

Templar is one that needs the biggest overhaul in my opinion. I've mained it since the game came out, and rather than trying and failing with animation changes like with Jabs (a complete failure in my professional opinion as an animator), the class itself could use a bit of a rework in some ways. Here's a couple bullet points:

1. Every ultimate in every skill line is either too weak or just bad. Radial Sweep and its morphs are not much stronger than a normal spammable skill, just with some added (relatively weak) damage over time tacked on. Its low cost is nice, and the fact that you get the passive buffs from the Aedric Spear skill line while its slotted is good, but only because Jabs is so bad that Templars don't even run it anymore. It might as well become a normal skill, ditch the damage over time or make it exclusive to one of the morphs, and have it replace Jabs at this point. Nova and its morphs are outperformed by basically every other non-class specific ult that Templar can get their hands on. Rite of Passage is both overkill when it comes to group healing while at the same time detrimental as you cannot move when casting it. Best time to cast it is in crunch time, and at that point if you stand still you or your party wipes, making it useless most of the time.
2. Excessive nerfs and skill changes without thinking about the actual overall health of the class has made it kind of a weak toolbox of a couple skills you can slot, but without a good spammable option as the OG is terrible to look at + does terrible damage ++ costs too much resources for the low damage it does manage to fart out. Backlash's only saving grace is minor breach on one of its morphs, but doesn't do enough damage to really justify it. With the change to Empower and AOE damage, solar flare's only good morph now does basically no damage and adds no real value not that it was used often before the changes, and the other morph is basically nothing. Radiant Aura used to give an AOE magic steal effect, but now just basically does nothing but sit in your bar giving some minor buffs, and though the other morph is still good, it's only good on stamina.
3. Old skills like Sun Fire see no play in any content at all, and like most classes, there are skills that are only used in PVE and some that are only used in PVP. That's not really a bad thing, the second part there, but these skills should have their place in both sides of content, not just one or the other.

I don't have much constructive to say here. These points from Templar kinda fit in different ways into every class. Sorc is missing things from its kit that would make it stand up to other classes. NB is so complicated to play that just thinking about playing it gives me carpal tunnel. DK is probably in the best spot out of all the classes, but still suffers dead skills in its kit that no one uses. I'll even tack on Warden and say the direction of forcing players that want to utilize magicka to use ice staves goes against the main identity of ESO, and also Cliff Racer still feels like garbage to use 6 years later.
Edited by merpins on 22 March 2023 00:13
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    Please, no. I chose my characters and classes based on the existing abilities and animations. Adding new OPTIONS to these classes would be great, but not changing or taking away what we have. I don’t think the jabs animation should have been changed. I like the relative subtlety of the Nightblade abilities while the, for me, obnoxious visuals of Dragonknight such as the fiery eye effect and defensive abilities are part of what others like about the class.

    Finally, I like that the original four classes had skill lines based on themes rather than utility. Having damage, tank, and heal skill lines is rather boring IMHO and makes the classes feel less integrated.
  • merpins
    merpins
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    Please, no. I chose my characters and classes based on the existing abilities and animations. Adding new OPTIONS to these classes would be great, but not changing or taking away what we have. I don’t think the jabs animation should have been changed. I like the relative subtlety of the Nightblade abilities while the, for me, obnoxious visuals of Dragonknight such as the fiery eye effect and defensive abilities are part of what others like about the class.

    Finally, I like that the original four classes had skill lines based on themes rather than utility. Having damage, tank, and heal skill lines is rather boring IMHO and makes the classes feel less integrated.

    That is absolutely fair. I agree with the jabs change, and also agree with that take for the most part. I'm not saying revamp the original four class' skill lines to make them in-line with the standard of the newest classes, as in having a dedicated dps, tank, and healer skill line (I also agree this is a boring way to go about it, just look at NB healer to see that a good healer doesn't have to have a dedicated healing kit to be actually good so long as it has healing options in the morphs). I'm saying to just scrap or change skills that are underutilized, and revamp the skills they already were planning on revamping. The Jabs change is a bad sign, imo. It tells me that ZoS is thinking about changing skills without actually thinking about the classes that the skills are from, and I'd much rather them change an entire class at the same time, keeping in mind how the class works and its themes, than them changing one skill every few patch cycles at random without actually taking into account the theme of the class like they did with Jabs.
    Edited by merpins on 20 March 2023 18:18
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    i dont think the classes as a whole need a revamp

    the jabs change made it easier to weave, though im not entirely happy with the spear model change either, i would have much preferred the original light spear that matches well, every other skill in the templar toolkit using the spear

    the only class that i could probably see getting real revamp is necromancer, a lot of the skills are far too weak or clunky to use (summons), they have no common buffs that other classes have (major brutality/sorcery baked in so they are forced to outsource it from the mages guild), and their skills do not mesh well with their passives (passives that boost dots, but only have 2 skills in the class kit that even have dots)

    and also based on the jabs spear model change, i hope they dont have any animation changes planned for the classes
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    Please, no. I chose my characters and classes based on the existing abilities and animations.

    So did I. 8 years ago.
    Pretty much everything has changed since then. Multiple times. And classes still largely suck.

    So what is a class? Why have classes?

    Traditionally, classes are fitted around two things: Role and/or playstyle.

    Roles are out of the window, ever since player demand made ZOS change direction and let every class fill every role. It's also impossible to return to unless they invent new roles besides Tank/Heal/DPS.

    Playstyles have always been a lackluster differentiator for ESO'S classes, and the often bemoaned homogenization has made things worse over the years. For as long as I can remember, rotations have been the same on every class - put down DoTs, weave with your spammable, repeat. Some classes (Warden, Necro) have delayed burst abilites, but that's about the extend of variety you get.

    There are inklings of different playstyles or unique mechanics to some classes that could be expanded upon, though. Necromancer's corpse mechanic comes to mind, as does the new combo system for the Arcanist (allegedly). DKs and Wardens also benefit more than other classes from certain status effects, Burning and Chilled respectively.

    These are the things they should have in mind IMO when revamping the classes. Ultimately, the goal should be to give each class distinct playstyles for each role, so that a Warden healer feels similar to a Warden tank while feeling different from a DK healer.
    E.g., why is chilled only relevant for Warden DPS? Chilled enemies could deal less damage when in your AoE heal, for example. Or become immobilized when blocked. Things like that are really simple, even without large class revamps, but would add a lot to class diversity.

    Otherwise, classes are just a choice between your favorite color.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
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