Snake in the Stars, good or bad?

WeylandLabs

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

WeylandLabs wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Supershutze wrote: »

The problem with sets that directly counter healing isn't actually a problem.

Every half decent pvp build in existence relies almost exclusively on healing for defence. This is because healing has no counter, whatsoever.

Snake in the stars per-nerf would have been extremely powerful, but that just means it's doing it's job; a set designed to counter healing is going to counter builds that rely heavily on healing... which at the moment is all of them.

The entire point of sets like this is to reduce TTK to the point where fights actually go somewhere, **but for some reason people are afraid of dying in PVP.**

Snake in the Stars, released in the pathetic state it's in, pitifully fails to accomplish it's entire reason for existing.

Didn't ZOS try a set that applied "absorb the next X in healing" several patches ago? That was actually a better idea than this.

Either way, everyone loves to complain about. healing, but they complain MORE about anything that interferes with their healing. End result, healing debuffs and healing interference sets are over nerfed, and ZOS keeps boosting healing.

The real solution is to follow proc set scaling and make healing skills scale with max mag/stam only (and damage skills scale only with wep/sp damage) and break the link between stacking damage to boost your offense and your defensive healing. That will NEVER happen tho - pvp'ers love their unkillable builds.

You have to make a YouTube channel and showcase paper theory from practical application today. That's why there is success in nerfing practical items sets now it's strictly based on dueling scenarios and not open world solo, gvg, ball and zergs. That doesn't play and you cant test that on the PTS for ballgroups and/or 'Gvg and solo open world. They take one aspect highlight a bias viewpoint throw on a build that's only for 1v1's and points out only the negative aspects for that situation.

Thus resulting in sets coming into live DOA like snake, this has happened for years now and wont change anytime soon. The pts lacks players wanting to pvp and its pointless to even pvp because its for nothing.

My opinion - Set nerfs or buffs shouldn't be based on one aspect with only dueling in mind. You can gauge a set better at live then make the adjustments towards the damage, heals or utility . The pts was or should be only to find bugs and broken mechanics in a set. Not balance it in one controlled setting or situation to have bias or favoritism towards something that could possibly interfere with your playstyles builds and content.

Having disruptive items in gameplay is healthy in any game today for business and entertainment purposes.

There are several reasons why set testing belongs on the PTS and not the live server:

Availability: All sets are easy accessible on the PTS thanks to having crates for all but craftable sets, unlimited transmute stones, enchantments and upgrading materials. If a set would be deemed to be good based on patch notes and then only released on live server, the item pieces will be sold for very high value, making the acquiring of the set very expensive and therefore testing it not even desirable through high expenses plus the unnecessity, when the set gets nerfed in an incremental patch right after you acquired it.

PTS being easy to "change": I just listed some arguments, why changing the live server has big impact for the econimic for example. But the PTS is very accesible for changes, since the impact of changes there do not have consequences like changes on the live server, making it easy to test things and get feedback for the devs aswell. If a change would destroy the economics or balance and would come to live server right away, you can imagine the reaction of the playerbase. That is why there is a PTS.

Incremental live changes: I just mentioned that changes to the live server could be detrimental. Having sets being tested on the live server as you suggest, would request the devs doing lots of incremental patches, so that the set chan be adjusted frequently without crazy OP sets lasting for months (regular patch cycles). More and frequent incremental patches, even though requested from the players, will make the chances for the devs to *** up something go up. I guess this is why we dont have these regular small patches often and only, when something is utterly broken.

I agree with you, that the amount of players testing on the PTS is too small and do only test new things in some vacuum scenario. But most of the experienced players have a very good idea of how a sets function will translate into other scenarios or content after testing it in a vacuum. Many people even already know right away just by reading patch notes, what new sets will be underwhelming, decent, strong or even OP.

Like the feedback !

I understand all the reason why the PTS exists, my argument is that "experienced" players cannot translate that into practical application on the PTS. And in ESO today there is so much cognitive bias in gameplay that its marketable. Players go out of there way to try and buff/nerf sets, playstyles and mechanics now to favor there own playstyle and builds. You cant really know what a set will do on live until its actually is on live and in open world, with utility and creative factors that play a huge part or should I say played.

Example : Mara's balm has been nerfed 3x already and is still OP because of how players are using it. But it past PTS easy with nothing wrong, who missed that duck ? - players are still having fun with it. And because it was a support set and support sets don't have a huge bias on them that is marketable. Damage sets on the other hand, well now If a player dies due to the set's RNG killing them in a random ( not controlled ) situation not of they're liking the entire game is broken. I really hope you can understand my point as much as I understood yours.


We can all look at these things differently, however I not trying to convince anyone of my viewpoints. I understand if I show players logic and reason towards a view "popular experienced" players have an ingame identity or a group/guild affiliation/community to represent and market themselves.

But the seed was planted and I'm out of here !

Breakwell

It’s impossible to nerf organized group play. If you make it any stronger ball groups will use the set, just like dark convergence and plague. So by all means give us another tool bc there are work arounds to stacking HoTs.

Sergykid

so this set snakes in stars is supposed to not proc and deal damage on healing from proc sets like maras or histsap, correct?
cuz proc sets don't proc off proc sets.

Also the effect itself is supposed to not launch from debuffs like minor maim from chilled status effect, correct?
cuz status effects act like procs.

i'm only asking for certitude for near future debates

TechMaybeHic

Sergykid wrote: »

so this set snakes in stars is supposed to not proc and deal damage on healing from proc sets like maras or histsap, correct?
cuz proc sets don't proc off proc sets.

Also the effect itself is supposed to not launch from debuffs like minor maim from chilled status effect, correct?
cuz status effects act like procs.

i'm only asking for certitude for near future debates

I'd like to know as well as I've heard it procs in everything that heals

Necrotech_Master

Sergykid wrote: »

so this set snakes in stars is supposed to not proc and deal damage on healing from proc sets like maras or histsap, correct?
cuz proc sets don't proc off proc sets.

Also the effect itself is supposed to not launch from debuffs like minor maim from chilled status effect, correct?
cuz status effects act like procs.

i'm only asking for certitude for near future debates

the procs procing other procs is still kind of "depends on the situation"

normally as i see it the procs only wont proc off procs if they are both from yourself (leeching plate used to be able to proc bahraha curse, since one required just dealing dmg, but this doesnt work anymore)

snake procs when the enemy receives healing, regardless of the source (enemy self, enemy ally, or procs) because snake is your proc, enemy procs such as maras are counted as their procs, and in this situation a proc can proc a proc

Sergykid

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

so this set snakes in stars is supposed to not proc and deal damage on healing from proc sets like maras or histsap, correct?
cuz proc sets don't proc off proc sets.

Also the effect itself is supposed to not launch from debuffs like minor maim from chilled status effect, correct?
cuz status effects act like procs.

i'm only asking for certitude for near future debates

the procs procing other procs is still kind of "depends on the situation"

normally as i see it the procs only wont proc off procs if they are both from yourself (leeching plate used to be able to proc bahraha curse, since one required just dealing dmg, but this doesnt work anymore)

snake procs when the enemy receives healing, regardless of the source (enemy self, enemy ally, or procs) because snake is your proc, enemy procs such as maras are counted as their procs, and in this situation a proc can proc a proc

but they are the "owner" of the debuff. I place the debuff with my proc, and then the debuff is theirs, which will proc also from their own set procs.
also i think there's some other proc sets that don't proc placed on an enemy from their procs, just like this situation

SkaraMinoc

Good or Bad? Bad

I have yet to see anyone in a Cyrodiil ball group killed by Snake in the Stars.

In Battlegrounds, it doesn't have enough damage to kill anyone. I've seen it proc 3-4x a second against Warden healers and they just Polar Wind through it.

Very underwhelming.

Tarys

Set in its current state is way to weak ... no counter against the only heal-stacking/spamming thing in pvp aka ball groups. They just keep spamming their 12 hots and every dmg done by this set gets eaten up from the heals. So forcing the premades into a different (less "abusive") playstyle ain´t gonna happen. Plaguebreak still is the only set that changed something for them and after avoiding purge even that set no longer is a weapon against them but for them ...

maxjapank

Snowtreaders is a hard carry by healers in ball groups. The new heavy set won’t affect snowtreaders, though. But besides stacking heals, reworking snowtreaders would help. I also remember the days when Inevitable Detonation would really hurt ball groups. Back when we could not be stuck in combat, we’d have 4+ of us spamming that, and it would really hurt them. You’d see their health spiking over and over and they’d quickly run away. I’d suggest buffing Inevitable Detonation. Not proxy. But Inevitable having a cast time is not something ball groups really want to use, and even so, pugs will spread out more than ball groups.