NPCs seem more aggressive

SeaGtGruff

I haven't read the patch notes, so I don't know whether this was an announced change, or whether I just happened to get 3 NPCs who were more aggressive than usual, or maybe it had to do with the specific cards in the Tavern and how much priority the NPCs gave to buying them if possible. Has anyone else noticed this? In particular, none of the 3 NPCs I played against used the "pay 2 gold to replace a card with a 2-gold card" tactic, but instead began immediately purchasing what they considered to be the best available cards. I still managed to win all 3 matches, but it was a good bit more challenging than I'd been expecting.

fizl101

Patch notes said npcs would be improved. I wont see it until the console update so I havent tried them yet

SeaGtGruff

I'm curious what everyone thinks of them now. To me, it felt more like playing against another player. I always play the Expert NPCs, so I don't know how the other NPCs are now.

Necrotech_Master

the only thing i really noticed is that they are a bit smarter handling the tavern

i was seeing even the novice ones actually grabbing tavern cards instead of prioritizing converting coins to writs with the treasury (which was usually always their first move lol)

SeaGtGruff

Yeah, that's what I mean by "aggressive"-- choosing to buy cards from the get-go instead of converting 1-gold cards to writs.

I hesitate to say that they're "smarter" about handling the Tavern, because they still go overboard (IMHO) with the tactic of removing cards from the Tavern. The very first match I played after the update, the NPC went first and bought a card that let them remove "up to" 2 cards from the Tavern-- so every single time they played that card, they removed 2 cards, even if they were removing really good cards that they themselves could have bought during that same turn.

Araneae6537

Sometimes it’s funny browsing posts by Recent, not seeing the sub-forum where they were posted in. I saw this thread and imagined mobs ambushing you as you went for a stroll! That would quickly become annoying, but while I wouldn’t want most NPCs to be more aggressive out in the world, I would be glad for some improved or at least varied combat AI!

Jusey1

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing i really noticed is that they are a bit smarter handling the tavern

i was seeing even the novice ones actually grabbing tavern cards instead of prioritizing converting coins to writs with the treasury (which was usually always their first move lol)

Ye'h, but this also honestly makes them dumber in a way? Because now the go to strategy against novice is even easier because they are more likely to pick up an agent card (assuming the AI went the Psijic Deck) to help you with your win.

Note: Mind you, I don't want ZOS to ever buff novice NPCs to actually use the Patreons, I love the go to strategy of winning quickly against them for resource grinds. Just saying that the buff to their tavern spending helps this if they picked the Psijic deck.

Necrotech_Master

Jusey1 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only thing i really noticed is that they are a bit smarter handling the tavern

i was seeing even the novice ones actually grabbing tavern cards instead of prioritizing converting coins to writs with the treasury (which was usually always their first move lol)

Ye'h, but this also honestly makes them dumber in a way? Because now the go to strategy against novice is even easier because they are more likely to pick up an agent card (assuming the AI went the Psijic Deck) to help you with your win.

Note: Mind you, I don't want ZOS to ever buff novice NPCs to actually use the Patreons, I love the go to strategy of winning quickly against them for resource grinds. Just saying that the buff to their tavern spending helps this if they picked the Psijic deck.

i think if they ever end up getting the NPCs to actually play as smart as players, they need to give them much better rewards lol

Jusey1

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think if they ever end up getting the NPCs to actually play as smart as players, they need to give them much better rewards lol

They have good rewards, just not high chances for the best stuff so you get a lot of common materials but that's still good if you're a crafter.

BlueRaven

They are much more aggressive and I am not really enjoying it.

My agents don't even last one turn, they immediately keep killing them. It's not really fun game play for me.

I decided to take a step back and just do proficient players now. I am hoping it won't affect the rewards.

Personofsecrets

Been noticing the same issue on ladder. St. Pelin over and over and over.

Ilsabet

I've been playing proficient NPCs for the daily, and I haven't noticed much of a change compared to pre-update. They're still spamming the coin exchange, and it's still very easy to win on patrons.

There have been a couple of instances where they've bought a card instead of using the coin patron, which surprised me at the time, but it hasn't happened enough to make a difference.

SeaGtGruff

BlueRaven wrote: »

They are much more aggressive and I am not really enjoying it.

My agents don't even last one turn, they immediately keep killing them. It's not really fun game play for me.

I decided to take a step back and just do proficient players now. I am hoping it won't affect the rewards.

So far, I've still been able to win every match against the Expert NPCs, although they've given me more of a run for my money than they used to. Mind you, I used to lose the occasional match to the Expert NPCs if they happened to snatch up a couple of really good Power or Gold cards during the first 2 turns and were then able to plow over me for the rest of the match, so I'm guessing I may lose at least as often as before, and possibly a little more often. However, the main thing is knowing what their strategy is most likely going to be for any given deck so you can work on countering their strategy as soon as possible.

I hope ZOS never makes the NPCs as skilled as the best ToT players, at least not the two lowest-ranked NPCs. And I think ZOS should try to program the NPCs so they don't always use the same strategy for any given deck. The NPCs should have a bit of personality if possible, meaning each particular NPC should ideally use slightly different strategies than the others, to help make them seem more interesting and alive.

spartaxoxo

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Been noticing the same issue on ladder. St. Pelin over and over and over.

Pelin was being used over and over when I was playing last season too. I don't know when it became THE deck, but it's constant now for me on console. Wonder if it's about to be the same on PC. I barely see crow anymore but I know y'all say you've seen it a lot. Pelin Pelin Pelin, the occasional high ranked Rahjiin, and then Pelin Pelin Pelin Pelin Pelin. Over it.

Grizzbeorn

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Been noticing the same issue on ladder. St. Pelin over and over and over.

Pelin was being used over and over when I was playing last season too. I don't know when it became THE deck, but it's constant now for me on console. Wonder if it's about to be the same on PC. I barely see crow anymore but I know y'all say you've seen it a lot. Pelin Pelin Pelin, the occasional high ranked Rahjiin, and then Pelin Pelin Pelin Pelin Pelin. Over it.

The one game I've lost to an NPC so far was due to getting steam-rolled, constantly, by long-chain Pelin combos.
That lady was not playin'; she was out for blood.

SilverBride

I had stopped playing NPCs because they were too easy to beat. When I read that they would be smarter with the patch I picked up the daily and discovered they really were harder to beat than before. I still don't find them as difficult as another player but there is enough of a difference to get me to try the NPC dailies again.

PrinceShroob

They're a lot closer to real players now, but they still have several flaws. NPCs are very predictable when it comes to removing cards from the tavern, for example (they almost always remove the highest-costing card). They also will always buy cards from the tavern while a human might not. And they're very persistent with attacking agents, to their detriment (I have seen NPCs devote all their power to knocking Elder Witch down to 3 health, and then ignore her for several turns).

However, the update did fix some flaws in the previous iteration of the AI (NPCs would always use the Treasury on their first few turns but then never again, even if they could and had no other possible moves).

Jusey1

PrinceShroob wrote: »

And they're very persistent with attacking agents, to their detriment (I have seen NPCs devote all their power to knocking Eder Witch down to 3 health, and then ignore her for several turns)..

I did an interesting test on a poor Novice NPC about their aggressiveness against Agents... It builds as the match goes on it looks like for Novice ones. I was using the Rah'jiin deck and for a very long time, I had almost all of his non-taunt agents on the field for a long time, keeping the NPC's prestige at 0... Eventually, he started just SLAYING all the Agents after a while and every time I brought them back up, the NPC went straight for them with their power if they had any in a turn (granted, they were suffering from Rah'jiin patreon spam too though haha).

spartaxoxo

Are the NPCs still so aggressive against agents they will throw the match to end their lives? I am on console so don't have the new NPCs yet but I had a few matches where the npc needed to match my prestige, did so, then proceeded to kill my agents, resulting in my victory.

rbfrgsp

The update makes noticeable changes, which I like. One game today I in fact forgot I was playing the NPC it was such a good game. Played like a human; only a few glaring mistakes towards the end stopped it from being competitive, but many newer human players make the same missteps. Only realised it was ai after the game ended.

One behaviour that is new and (in my opinion) bad is that the NPC now seems to use ragpicker / Red Eagle to destroy contract agents it has in play. It did this in two games, and in both we had Hlaalu in play. It chose to unpick those contract agent cards instead of sacrificing them for prestige. No reason to do that.

SeaGtGruff

I've noticed both of those things, too.

The NPC will be playing a good game, but towards the end it seems to be stuck in card-buying mode, even if I'm about to win or have already gotten 40+ Prestige, and even if it could get a lot more Power or Prestige by doing something else.

It will even waste some of its Power on knocking out one or more of my agents. That last part actually does feel a bit like a human, since it can be tempting to do that as a way of showing your displeasure if you've clearly got no way to stop your opponent from winning at the end of your turn.

And it doesn't seem to be very savvy about using Hlaalu to sacrifice agents for Prestige.

But those behaviors aren't new; they've been around since long before this latest update.

Vulsahdaal

BlueRaven wrote: »

They are much more aggressive and I am not really enjoying it.

My agents don't even last one turn, they immediately keep killing them. It's not really fun game play for me.

I noticed this also, but that doesnt mean its not fun for me. I mean at first I was like WTF?? so I just sat back and watched.

It seems that these 'new, improved, smarter' NPCs are actually dumber than ever. It didnt take me long to figure out these guys are attracted to agents as crows are to shiny.

Just dont buy a contract agent unless you really need what you get right away, because it wont last another round.

Then buy a bunch of 'bait' agents to keep them spending all their power points they gain to try to knock them down (they still not smart enough to use psijic patron for most part).

Admittedly, its not much of a challenge, but at least Im easily amused.

Typical 'expert' NPC now since they have become 'smarter'

SeaGtGruff

I lost to one of the Expert NPCs yesterday. It was one of those cases where they got really lucky during their first turn by being able to buy a powerful Pelin card that I hadn't been able to afford yet, then they continued to be lucky about buying Pelin cards throughout the rest of the match. I never had much chance to catch up and they just kept getting farther ahead of me.

But I've won every other match since the update, usually by a decisive victory but occasionally the game ends up being a little bit closer. I swear that most of the times when the NPC gets well ahead of me, it's like they stop pushing ahead and just sort of go into card-acquisition mode at the expense of opportunities to increase their score, almost as if they're programmed to slow down and let the player try to catch up if they recognize that they're winning. But that isn't new-- they've done that since long before the latest update-- and it certainly isn't the way they behave all the time, otherwise the situation I described in my first paragraph would never occur.