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Train more... Harder... And better. 2bars World Records

  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
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    Not sure I've ever read anything about exclusivity in any of those threads. It might have everything to do with meaningfulness though, as people want their achievements and progress to matter again. It's also have nothing to do with "elites", as those are happily participate in it's use (though they're entitled to leave legitimate feedback of how insane the item still is in some scenarios), while midgame players that can't meet certain thresholds are feeling affected by it. It's an mmo, and when there's one single item piece that makes performance go "from 50 to 90", it's not looking particularly... Balanced? DPS alone isn't an issue as adding insane survivability akin to off-tank and denying resources mini game, which are both crucial for progression. No one cared about HA in solo content and veteran content as they've never were a "time trial" material for absolute mass of players, ones that were capable of such things had as much skill as any other player doing it any different. It's different HA builds now and reaction is obviously stronger from all flanks.

    Before torches are drawn I was pro-oaken not so long ago, now just indifferent to the matter as it has nothing to do with me in particular, but can't deny it's use cases can be seen close to broken for a lot of people, especially experienced with eso's combat throughout the years and all the changes that were made because 2-3% differences. I don't remember any other item set that made me feel I'm doing something wrong and possibly bannable, bar thrassian stranglers on release (or first PTS cycle?) doing solo arenas. It's the closest I can get describing it.

    Just my perspective without spitting venom around.
  • Liguar
    Liguar
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    - essentially, what it’s boiled down to, from my understanding is veteran trials should be exclusively for the elite players who want to brag.
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.
    It might have everything to do with meaningfulness though, as people want their achievements and progress to matter again.

    It was more this, that players using these builds do too much damage too easily and somehow invalidate achievements for others. And that we do this without wanting any challenges.

    I personally think that saying people who use the build can be satisfied with normal dungeons and not aim for harder content is a little dubious. There is a pretty big range in difficulty between normal dungeons I was able to solo/duo before getting my HA build and the absolute high end of achievements they are talking about.

    I'm also not sure why the HA argument is conflated with not wanting challenge, when in fact it allowed me to challenge myself in new content. Something that is challenging to me can be trivial to someone else.
    Edited by Liguar on 22 March 2023 06:47
  • Liguar
    Liguar
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    I, very much, doubt that is helping to direct new players to this game.... and that means that the revenue stream that upkeeps the servers, and pays the devs to create new material is taking a hit, before it even had a chance to come this way.......

    It's also current players and the reasons for getting plus.

    If I were squeezed out of being able to reasonably attempt more of the 4 man content and was limited to what I was doing before (fewer WBs, dungeon options, less overall time playing due to hand cramps and eyesore effects from higher apm builds) I would have little reason to subscribe to plus. Not even for the beloved crafting bag, or furnishing limits.
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
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    I can do a 2bar build easy and do fine in content with it, and it does hit more on the dummy in parses. However, I got wrists that will start to hurt after an hour in a prog raid with a 2bar build. Oakensoul build lets me do competently in raids while also not having the progressive pain of constantly doing a full rotation. I will say tho, a good build doesn't make up for personal skill and experience. Another DPS could be doing the same heavy attack build as me, but not do nearly as well because they won't do mechanics or stand in stupid. Dunk on those who do dumb things like stand in red or right behind the tank, not those who can still do well but don't want the physical pain of long rotations.
    For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless ConquerorvMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HM/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR
    Falls-With-Stars - Argonian Magicka Templar - Former EmpressDragon-in-Shadows - Argonian Nightblade Tank - Shadow BreakerEossos - Khajiit Magicka Templar HealerDeath-Singer - Argonian Magicka NightbladeDark-Star - Khajiit Magicka DragonknightIce-Dancer - Khajiit Magicka WardenTsalli-ko - Khajiit Stamina SorcererThe-Gold-Experience - Khajiit Magicka NecromancerKhiiral - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight
  • N3CR01
    N3CR01
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Every time I see a "nerf Oakensoul" comment, what I read is that the person is unable to compete, and wants the rules changed for them......

    Yep. Sad isn't it.
  • N3CR01
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    Liguar wrote: »
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.

    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    N3CR01 wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.

    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    As someone who did claim that HA negatively affects 4man, this is my reasoning: nearly every single pug now has at least one HA build and it feels more often than not that these people do not communicate, are “fake” healers, run ahead of tank, etc. I’ve also seen runs where it’s 4 HA sorcs. No tank, no healer, 4 HA sorc Trifecta.
    So to me something is horribly wrong, but it is not the possible damage output of HA builds but rather the tankiness and “I heal, I’m tanky, I don’t need the group” ideology support.

    Edit: Fake healer as in they have matriarch and that’s their heal. Hold left click and spam matriarch. It works… BETTER THAN A REAL HEALER which is concerning to me.

    I think Oaken HA is more of an issue in 4man than trials.
    Edited by Soarora on 22 March 2023 14:31
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Heal/DPS/Tank) and Trialist (Heal/DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Warden Brittleden - Sorc Tank
    • Trials: 9/11 HMs - 2/7 Tris
    • Dungeons: 26/28 HMs - 13/22 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
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    Soarora wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.

    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    As someone who did claim that HA negatively affects 4man, this is my reasoning: nearly every single pug now has at least one HA build and it feels more often than not that these people do not communicate, are “fake” healers, run ahead of tank, etc. I’ve also seen runs where it’s 4 HA sorcs. No tank, no healer, 4 HA sorc Trifecta.
    So to me something is horribly wrong, but it is not the possible damage output of HA builds but rather the tankiness and “I heal, I’m tanky, I don’t need the group” ideology support.

    Edit: Fake healer as in they have matriarch and that’s their heal. Hold left click and spam matriarch. It works… BETTER THAN A REAL HEALER which is concerning to me.

    I think Oaken HA is more of an issue in 4man than trials.

    I can think of a few reasons for that... one, they get the attitude and treatment we see in these threads.... why would they want to be all in on a team that treats them like crap?

    Second, they have been gatekept out of content for so long, that they didn't learn their part in a team, and are at the learn or burn stage of the game..... trust me, a few times licking the floor and watching the Death Recap screen, usually fixes that.

    Lastly, they were always bad players... and would play that way NO MATTER what build they had.....can't do much with those, except just avoid them when you can... eventually, they either get lonely and get it together, or get lonely, and go off to another game that is more conducive to their methodology.

    Auldwulfe
  • N3CR01
    N3CR01
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    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland!

    Oh, the HORROR! :open_mouth:

  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
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    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    That is glorious.....

    Auldwulfe
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Soarora wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.

    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    As someone who did claim that HA negatively affects 4man, this is my reasoning: nearly every single pug now has at least one HA build and it feels more often than not that these people do not communicate, are “fake” healers, run ahead of tank, etc. I’ve also seen runs where it’s 4 HA sorcs. No tank, no healer, 4 HA sorc Trifecta.
    So to me something is horribly wrong, but it is not the possible damage output of HA builds but rather the tankiness and “I heal, I’m tanky, I don’t need the group” ideology support.

    Edit: Fake healer as in they have matriarch and that’s their heal. Hold left click and spam matriarch. It works… BETTER THAN A REAL HEALER which is concerning to me.

    I think Oaken HA is more of an issue in 4man than trials.

    I can think of a few reasons for that... one, they get the attitude and treatment we see in these threads.... why would they want to be all in on a team that treats them like crap?

    Second, they have been gatekept out of content for so long, that they didn't learn their part in a team, and are at the learn or burn stage of the game..... trust me, a few times licking the floor and watching the Death Recap screen, usually fixes that.

    Lastly, they were always bad players... and would play that way NO MATTER what build they had.....can't do much with those, except just avoid them when you can... eventually, they either get lonely and get it together, or get lonely, and go off to another game that is more conducive to their methodology.

    Auldwulfe

    Unless I’m having a bad day and am negative because of that, I’m super accommodating to people who communicate. I’ve stuck around with groups that hit like they’re using wet pool noodles because they actually talked in chat. It’s a good first impression and vibing is much more fun than just doing a dungeon. I’ve seen others do the same, even had a guildie stop mid run to craft someone brand new gear to help them out. People need to suck it up and see there’s great experiences waiting for them… if they Communicate. There’s bad ones too of course but there’s bad in every good.

    And going off of that, I’m happy to explain their part (where to stand, what mechs to look out for, etc) but only if they seem like they’d be receptive to it. It is unfortunate that theres no place to actually learn that though. I actually learned where to stand off of a random youtube video I came across on accident once… thanks zos for actually having a combat tutorial /s.

    I suppose at least they’re doing damage if they made their HA build correctly but I fear that their attitude WON’T change because they’re meeting dps checks and not dying.

    It also concerns me how often I see in these threads HA players argue that “it’s a game”, as in endgame should be casual-friendly. As if people are going to brute force being casual through endgame. If endgame were completely casual friendly we’d have this situation all over the place and it would be miserable. Though, endgame is pretty dead maybe it’d be best if the game were completely casual and all the endgamers went somewhere else /shrug.
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Heal/DPS/Tank) and Trialist (Heal/DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Warden Brittleden - Sorc Tank
    • Trials: 9/11 HMs - 2/7 Tris
    • Dungeons: 26/28 HMs - 13/22 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
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    Soarora wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Soarora wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.

    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    As someone who did claim that HA negatively affects 4man, this is my reasoning: nearly every single pug now has at least one HA build and it feels more often than not that these people do not communicate, are “fake” healers, run ahead of tank, etc. I’ve also seen runs where it’s 4 HA sorcs. No tank, no healer, 4 HA sorc Trifecta.
    So to me something is horribly wrong, but it is not the possible damage output of HA builds but rather the tankiness and “I heal, I’m tanky, I don’t need the group” ideology support.

    Edit: Fake healer as in they have matriarch and that’s their heal. Hold left click and spam matriarch. It works… BETTER THAN A REAL HEALER which is concerning to me.

    I think Oaken HA is more of an issue in 4man than trials.

    I can think of a few reasons for that... one, they get the attitude and treatment we see in these threads.... why would they want to be all in on a team that treats them like crap?

    Second, they have been gatekept out of content for so long, that they didn't learn their part in a team, and are at the learn or burn stage of the game..... trust me, a few times licking the floor and watching the Death Recap screen, usually fixes that.

    Lastly, they were always bad players... and would play that way NO MATTER what build they had.....can't do much with those, except just avoid them when you can... eventually, they either get lonely and get it together, or get lonely, and go off to another game that is more conducive to their methodology.

    Auldwulfe

    Unless I’m having a bad day and am negative because of that, I’m super accommodating to people who communicate. I’ve stuck around with groups that hit like they’re using wet pool noodles because they actually talked in chat. It’s a good first impression and vibing is much more fun than just doing a dungeon. I’ve seen others do the same, even had a guildie stop mid run to craft someone brand new gear to help them out. People need to suck it up and see there’s great experiences waiting for them… if they Communicate. There’s bad ones too of course but there’s bad in every good.

    And going off of that, I’m happy to explain their part (where to stand, what mechs to look out for, etc) but only if they seem like they’d be receptive to it. It is unfortunate that theres no place to actually learn that though. I actually learned where to stand off of a random youtube video I came across on accident once… thanks zos for actually having a combat tutorial /s.

    I suppose at least they’re doing damage if they made their HA build correctly but I fear that their attitude WON’T change because they’re meeting dps checks and not dying.

    It also concerns me how often I see in these threads HA players argue that “it’s a game”, as in endgame should be casual-friendly. As if people are going to brute force being casual through endgame. If endgame were completely casual friendly we’d have this situation all over the place and it would be miserable. Though, endgame is pretty dead maybe it’d be best if the game were completely casual and all the endgamers went somewhere else /shrug.

    Thing is, as I noted, the issue isn't with one mythic, though..... and nerfing it from those that it helps, due to physical limitations is just punishing people and gatekeeping, because other people are problematic.

    I have posted, several times, my build that does NOT use Oakensoul, and that is a heavy attack build, with only 3 keys, one of which you only tap once every 33 seconds that heals you about 10K to 16K every 3 seconds, while you hold the mouse button down.
    It is even MORE of what the haters of Oakensoul complain about..... except it doesn't have Oakensoul.
    I DELIBERATELY hamstrung it with identical weapons and bars..... just to hammer the point home......trust me, it gets even MORE dangerous, if I swap out the 2 keys on the back bar for more buff, or utility.... maybe a DOT. But, did the Hel Ra Citadel with it, and managed 37K average through....

    Cloudrest was a joke -- as flipping the bar meant absolutely nothing, I had the exact same skills, and just kept going......

    The problem is the synergy of Lightning Staves with empower, and HA buffing sets.....
    If the religiously anti-Oakensoul people would just stop stuffing their fingers in their ears, and screaming..... we could have an adult conversation about where the real issue is.

    Again, as I have said, ad nauseum, we don't see problems with Dual Wield and Oakensoul.... trust me, I tested it.... it didn't work well, at all, as the style does need flexibility that Oakensoul takes away.

    Didn't work well with 2 handed, Fire Staves, or Ice Staves, either......
    Yes, there was a recent posting about a bow version using it... but the ring is merely giving buffs that you only need if ALONE ... any group would provide it, and the difference it makes between having it on, and using a complete monster set, even one so simple as Slime Craw, is negligible..... but, I bet it generated a lot of clicks..... it got one from me.

    It would be SO MUCH BETTER if we could have adult conversations, and actually realize that many of us want the same things...... except the gatekeepers, and they are getting louder and louder.......

    Auldwulfe
    Edited by Auldwulfe on 22 March 2023 15:20
  • Zezin
    Zezin
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    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.
  • Zezin
    Zezin
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    can't really get minor aegis without a trial tank set, minor protection requires you to have a skill specifically for it, same with major resolve, minor courage either requires a tank to provide it with something like yoln or again using specific sets... you can't build in the mitigation of oakensoul while playing DPS effectively but to be hones I don't care that much about that, what I do care about as you probably know from other threads I'm in is the empower, HA oakensoul compromises nothing, it has everything without losing damage, sustain, healing or mitigation, it's also unique to HA specs as people not using HAs will still have the sustain and mitigation but not so much the healing and damage.


    edit: I've said this many times and I just think either you're ignoring it or IDK, I don't care that much about oakensoul, most people don't, I care about balance and Empower in it's current form is hurting it quite bad.
    Edited by Zezin on 22 March 2023 16:11
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    Issues with PUGs have been around since PUGs were a thing. If you want your group to use a certain playstyle or build, then form a group with players that meet that criteria.

    Oakensoul is not the root cause, or even the symptom, of the issues with PUGs.

    However, Oakensoul will allow a player to more easily reach Mid Tier DPS so they can attempt harder Vet Content. How is that a problem?
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
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    Zezin wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    can't really get minor aegis without a trial tank set, minor protection requires you to have a skill specifically for it, same with major resolve, minor courage either requires a tank to provide it with something like yoln or again using specific sets... you can't build in the mitigation of oakensoul while playing DPS effectively but to be hones I don't care that much about that, what I do care about as you probably know from other threads I'm in is the empower, HA oakensoul compromises nothing, it has everything without losing damage, sustain, healing or mitigation, it's also unique to HA specs as people not using HAs will still have the sustain and mitigation but not so much the healing and damage.

    Most of those show up in groups, anyways... so they really only benefit in solo play.
    I agreed, several times with the Aegis.... as it seemed, odd.... but the CP's can give a chunk of that, so again, not a huge thing....

    Thing is, I take Sergeant's Mail, and Order's Wrath -- do the Sergeant's in weapon and jewelry -- Order's in all light, for extra pen and crit --- use Slime Craw for Minor Berserk and MORE crit.... in medium to give me two types of armor for my Undaunted passives, AND a 2 piece chunk of the medium armor bonuses --- I can either go divines, and lean into crit --- or give up about 6% total, and go with reinforced and sturdy in a mix to cover the tankiness...
    Imperial for the extra 2K health, and 2k stamina, plus the 6% reduction in ALL skill costs.....
    Critical Surge... 33 seconds of Major Brutality / Sorcery, and it heals me for 3300 every crit, which is at least once a second......
    Empower from ANY Mage guild skill
    Daedric Prey --- and both pets, as they do a huge chunk of damage.....and with critical surge, I can even focus more on the offensive morphs, as I am already regenerating at a stupid rate .....
    Just about EVERY other buff is replaceable with CP ... or irrelevant, at this point, as I have the same damage, low button count, and long slow rotation...... with constant healing, which just makes you tanky.
    Being an Imperial, with everything in Magicka means that I sport 37K magicka, 28K health, and 18K stamina, before food.

    I mirror the back bar to the first, so that it doesn't matter, at all, which bar I am on... the only reason I even need to think on it, is if my enchantment needs recharge in a battle, or in Cloudrest... where it is just meaningless, as it's a joke with no change to either bar.

    I still run about 37K damage in live trial.... and I rarely EVER need to even use a potion..... and definitely not something like a tri-stat. I can focus ALL IN on just healing, and blast my way through anything.....

    I have repeatedly noted that the issue is in the lightning staff synergy with sets that enhance heavy attack.....
    I've advocated for empower to be brought down to about 60%... or the cleave damage of tri-focus be redone at 40% / 80% instead of 50% / 100%

    And I really think looking at the latter might be the better issue, as you punish people that want to use empower with other weapons, like Ice Staves, or Fire staves.....although if they did something to improve those, while adjusting both, so they don't get tossed to the trash bin.... that could help, immensely.

    Can it be abused... yeah, put a DK in that HA role.... or pretty much ANYTHING with a DK.... that's abuse, and I play a couple of DK's... my tank and my fire mage.....

    Both my fire mage, and my ice mage Warden are well on their way with things that are going to be fun... going AOE with a focus on status, with Serpent's Disdain, and Occult Overload with either Frostbite, on my warden, or Burning spellweave, etc on my Firemage.

    I am realizing, though, as I max out skill lines, that I will, probably, not need Serpent's Disdain much longer, as the normal 4 second status effects are just fine (it adds 16 seconds to status effects - and now, I wonder if that would work on the mage guild empower???)..... but once I get anyone to die, the explosions just keep coming..... my ice mage is probably going to be Frostfire Furnace, and Frostbite.... with one of the cold monster sets...... thing is, picking sets to enhance like this is NO different than Oakensoul..... with that mythic, you lose a full bar AND, either a monster set, or the 5 piece bonus from another set.... it isn't just a lock into a single bar........ there are more tradeoffs that people are ignoring, in the desire to gatekeep the rabble from their holy trials.

    Thing is, Oakensoul could be used as a gateway to working on NEW ideas and playstyles.... it's useful, but not so critical that you can't survive without it.... you DON'T have to use it if you don't want to.... and more happy players means longer life in the game.... right now, that would be a win for everyone, as the competition is starting to show, and not in favor of ESO.

    Auldwulfe

    Edited by Auldwulfe on 22 March 2023 17:07
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Soarora wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Soarora wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    It's not just trials. The megathread I was in also ended with the notion that HA builds are negatively affecting 4 man content.

    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    As someone who did claim that HA negatively affects 4man, this is my reasoning: nearly every single pug now has at least one HA build and it feels more often than not that these people do not communicate, are “fake” healers, run ahead of tank, etc. I’ve also seen runs where it’s 4 HA sorcs. No tank, no healer, 4 HA sorc Trifecta.
    So to me something is horribly wrong, but it is not the possible damage output of HA builds but rather the tankiness and “I heal, I’m tanky, I don’t need the group” ideology support.

    Edit: Fake healer as in they have matriarch and that’s their heal. Hold left click and spam matriarch. It works… BETTER THAN A REAL HEALER which is concerning to me.

    I think Oaken HA is more of an issue in 4man than trials.

    I can think of a few reasons for that... one, they get the attitude and treatment we see in these threads.... why would they want to be all in on a team that treats them like crap?

    Second, they have been gatekept out of content for so long, that they didn't learn their part in a team, and are at the learn or burn stage of the game..... trust me, a few times licking the floor and watching the Death Recap screen, usually fixes that.

    Lastly, they were always bad players... and would play that way NO MATTER what build they had.....can't do much with those, except just avoid them when you can... eventually, they either get lonely and get it together, or get lonely, and go off to another game that is more conducive to their methodology.

    Auldwulfe

    Unless I’m having a bad day and am negative because of that, I’m super accommodating to people who communicate. I’ve stuck around with groups that hit like they’re using wet pool noodles because they actually talked in chat. It’s a good first impression and vibing is much more fun than just doing a dungeon. I’ve seen others do the same, even had a guildie stop mid run to craft someone brand new gear to help them out. People need to suck it up and see there’s great experiences waiting for them… if they Communicate. There’s bad ones too of course but there’s bad in every good.

    And going off of that, I’m happy to explain their part (where to stand, what mechs to look out for, etc) but only if they seem like they’d be receptive to it. It is unfortunate that theres no place to actually learn that though. I actually learned where to stand off of a random youtube video I came across on accident once… thanks zos for actually having a combat tutorial /s.

    I suppose at least they’re doing damage if they made their HA build correctly but I fear that their attitude WON’T change because they’re meeting dps checks and not dying.

    It also concerns me how often I see in these threads HA players argue that “it’s a game”, as in endgame should be casual-friendly. As if people are going to brute force being casual through endgame. If endgame were completely casual friendly we’d have this situation all over the place and it would be miserable. Though, endgame is pretty dead maybe it’d be best if the game were completely casual and all the endgamers went somewhere else /shrug.

    Thing is, as I noted, the issue isn't with one mythic, though..... and nerfing it from those that it helps, due to physical limitations is just punishing people and gatekeeping, because other people are problematic.

    I have posted, several times, my build that does NOT use Oakensoul, and that is a heavy attack build, with only 3 keys, one of which you only tap once every 33 seconds that heals you about 10K to 16K every 3 seconds, while you hold the mouse button down.
    It is even MORE of what the haters of Oakensoul complain about..... except it doesn't have Oakensoul.
    I DELIBERATELY hamstrung it with identical weapons and bars..... just to hammer the point home......trust me, it gets even MORE dangerous, if I swap out the 2 keys on the back bar for more buff, or utility.... maybe a DOT. But, did the Hel Ra Citadel with it, and managed 37K average through....

    Cloudrest was a joke -- as flipping the bar meant absolutely nothing, I had the exact same skills, and just kept going......

    The problem is the synergy of Lightning Staves with empower, and HA buffing sets.....
    If the religiously anti-Oakensoul people would just stop stuffing their fingers in their ears, and screaming..... we could have an adult conversation about where the real issue is.

    Again, as I have said, ad nauseum, we don't see problems with Dual Wield and Oakensoul.... trust me, I tested it.... it didn't work well, at all, as the style does need flexibility that Oakensoul takes away.

    Didn't work well with 2 handed, Fire Staves, or Ice Staves, either......
    Yes, there was a recent posting about a bow version using it... but the ring is merely giving buffs that you only need if ALONE ... any group would provide it, and the difference it makes between having it on, and using a complete monster set, even one so simple as Slime Craw, is negligible..... but, I bet it generated a lot of clicks..... it got one from me.

    It would be SO MUCH BETTER if we could have adult conversations, and actually realize that many of us want the same things...... except the gatekeepers, and they are getting louder and louder.......

    Auldwulfe

    I mean, the only talks about nerfing HA I’ve specifically ever mentioned that I currently standby is removing minor aegis from oakensoul, I really see no point for it to be on there and what I recall is that you’ve agreed with that. Though, I do understand that HA sorc no matter what is rather strong due to its healing and defense capabilities… but it is also not in my best interest to argue for nerfs when I play PvP Stamsorc and PvE Tanksorc, and Healsorcs also exist.

    It would be nice if there was a balance between “disabled people can thrive” and “easy build make endgame trivial” but given zos’ approach to balancing I’m not certain it would happen, if it could at all. My attempt at figuring that out led me to buff 2-bar HA in such a way that it is more difficult than 1-bar but still reasonable, like not having all the power be focused in HAs while still having a slower rotation. I found HA weaving to actually be pretty difficult despite the relatively calm rotation. But I fear a discussion regarding nerfing HA damage in any way would absolutely not go well coming from me, or anyone who doesn’t do HA, given how I’ve seen people approach these discussions.

    And yeah, I really don’t care about the overload “but people weren’t doing mechanics” thing. Whether people have to be careful about what bar they get overload on or not does not affect me at all… I only heal cloudrest. As long as people are not killing each other or themselves and an easy HA build doesn’t somehow become CR meta I do not care. I will say though that I don’t actively avoid HA players but if the “it just goes to a 2-bar” were to remain I probably would given the opportunity… I don’t want more overload as a healer thanks haha.

    I feel like non-HA Oakensoul is what Oakensoul was for before Empower was added, and no one had a problem with it then except in PvP.

    I feel like there’s a lot of yelling all over the place and it’s making more and more people fed up and it’s all just blowing up. We’ve had so many threads now, so many active threads too, and none really go anywhere. I appreciate your insights and dedications to the threads, and it’s nice to actually calmly converse like this. Thank you.
    Edited by Soarora on 22 March 2023 18:42
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Heal/DPS/Tank) and Trialist (Heal/DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
    • CP 2000+
    • Warden Healer - Warden Brittleden - Sorc Tank
    • Trials: 9/11 HMs - 2/7 Tris
    • Dungeons: 26/28 HMs - 13/22 Tris
    • All Veterans completed!
  • axi
    axi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    Please show me an example of 100k+ one bar heavy attack sorc without oakensoul that will also reach similar levels of defense. We are talking about 100k DPS with 30k HP 28k resistances, and 100% uptime on self provided minor protection, aegis, mending and heroism.
    Edited by axi on 22 March 2023 19:13
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    axi wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    Please show me an example of 100k+ one bar heavy attack sorc without oakensoul that will also reach similar levels of defense. We are talking about 100k DPS with 30k HP 28k resistances, and 100% uptime on self provided minor protection, aegis, mending and heroism.

    I never said 100k... which isn't even the problem, anyways --- I said about 80 to 85k which is what MOST people get with Oakensoul .... and the real issue is the live trial damage, since anybody can beat a static dummy with all the buffs, and get high numbers.....

    I agreed that the HA Lightning attacks are carrying too much damage --- but I don't agree that it is Oakensoul, as you can get the same averages without... about 37K in a trial.... and do it with a slower rotation. As for defense... I would think having the equivelent of 6600 Health regen that doesn't get effected by Battle Spirit would be enough ..... as Crit Surge has a chance to heal on every tick of that heavy staff... at that point, picking any race with a health boost, and some basic bumps with food, should make you tanky enough to just endure through.... Add a potion focused on heal, and maybe add in unsnareable.... and you will not notice the rest .... defense isn't as important, directly, when you can just continuously heal through.... read up on ball groups.

    However, if you really want to burst skulls... make an Imperial, put everything in stamina - even your armor glyphs... since damage under hybridization scales off the higher, regardless of which it is, and heavy attacks don't use resources, and refill you with every attack... In theory, that should boost the damage higher... haven't tried it yet, but by everything else we have, it should work..... Not saying it makes sense, but with the system, it would work.

    Thing is, ad hominem attacks are not helping, because if they nerf the ring, they nerf the playerbase, and everyone loses.... and the persistent issue with the combo of HA boosting armor sets, empower, and the synergy of Lightning Staves will remain.....

    Screaming about a mythic that wasn't an issue 30 days ago, and that doesn't help in PVP, and therefore only effects gatekeepers and people profiting off of carries, is NOT helping anyone......

    I would say, again, if Oakensoul were the culprit, we would see it doing the exact same thing with 2Handed swords, Dual Wield Builds, Ice Staves, and Fire Staves ... I leave the bow out, because so many of the "oakensoul bow builds" actually rely on snipe or other skills, or class skills and AOE armor sets...... the bow is kind of just there to fill your hands..... and in my opinion, that whole thing is just clickbait to up viewership.... as putting Oakensoul in the description guarantees clicks.



    Auldwulfe
    Edited by Auldwulfe on 22 March 2023 19:44
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, specifically ...

    The issue remains with the lightning heavy attack, armor that boosts that, and Empower.... the source doesn't matter
    I would propose either a reduction of empower to 60%, or reduction of cleave from 50/100 to 40/80 be the first place to start..... much more than that, and you risk going overboard.... tuning as opposed to Drunken Nord Smashing (someone said it, and I liked it)

    I don't understand WHY aegis is on the ring.... take it off.... that 5% reduction in damage is virtually meaningless, anyways, if you have a good heal sustain built in with the slots and sets you do use... or just in CP usage.

    We can be fairly sure the problem is in the lightning staff interaction... or we'd be flooded with Oakensoul dual wield heavy attack builds... and they just aren't there.

    We are also sure that DK go Brrrrr..... LOL

    Now, let's have a calm discussion on this, because nerfing a mythic is about as accurate as removing light attacks would be, to fixing this issue...... And, it would cost the player base, immensely, especially after U35.

    Auldwulfe
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    On a fun note, as resistances were mentioned... WITHOUT Oakensoul, I have 21.4% on everything except poison and disease which are 16.1% .... there are probably CP passives I haven't activated yet, for those...... so, 4% .... yeah, the screaming about over defense is 4% ....

    I did, however, by swapping out, get the equivelent of 6600 health regen, whenever I am in combat, so that's cool

    Auldwulfe
    Edited by Auldwulfe on 22 March 2023 20:01
  • axi
    axi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    axi wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    Please show me an example of 100k+ one bar heavy attack sorc without oakensoul that will also reach similar levels of defense. We are talking about 100k DPS with 30k HP 28k resistances, and 100% uptime on self provided minor protection, aegis, mending and heroism.

    I never said 100k... which isn't even the problem, anyways --- I said about 80 to 85k which is what MOST people get with Oakensoul .... and the real issue is the live trial damage, since anybody can beat a static dummy with all the buffs, and get high numbers.....

    I agreed that the HA Lightning attacks are carrying too much damage --- but I don't agree that it is Oakensoul, as you can get the same averages without... about 37K in a trial.... and do it with a slower rotation. As for defense... I would think having the equivelent of 6600 Health regen that doesn't get effected by Battle Spirit would be enough ..... as Crit Surge has a chance to heal on every tick of that heavy staff... at that point, picking any race with a health boost, and some basic bumps with food, should make you tanky enough to just endure through.... Add a potion focused on heal, and maybe add in unsnareable.... and you will not notice the rest .... defense isn't as important, directly, when you can just continuously heal through.... read up on ball groups.

    However, if you really want to burst skulls... make an Imperial, put everything in stamina - even your armor glyphs... since damage under hybridization scales off the higher, regardless of which it is, and heavy attacks don't use resources, and refill you with every attack... In theory, that should boost the damage higher... haven't tried it yet, but by everything else we have, it should work..... Not saying it makes sense, but with the system, it would work.

    Thing is, ad hominem attacks are not helping, because if they nerf the ring, they nerf the playerbase, and everyone loses.... and the persistent issue with the combo of HA boosting armor sets, empower, and the synergy of Lightning Staves will remain.....

    Screaming about a mythic that wasn't an issue 30 days ago, and that doesn't help in PVP, and therefore only effects gatekeepers and people profiting off of carries, is NOT helping anyone......

    Auldwulfe

    I am pretty sure when person You were responding to was talking about oakensoul being better than anything else out there he/she was not talking about 80-85k DPS so Your answer about being able to do the same without oakensoul is kinda missing the point[snip]. And yes I agree real trial damage is an issue and that is because in real trial while You loose almost nothing from heavy attack DPS You get lots of defense thanks to oakensoul which allows sometimes to completly ignore mechanics. That mechanic avoidance in return gives You even more DPS because other setups need to actively react to more things than oakensoul user. For example as an oakensoul user You can ignore liothis poison cone in vAS HM and continue Your rotation like it's nothing when other setups with lower defense will have to block and cause drop in their DPS and when storm heavens mechanic will start during poison cone they will be in way bigger trouble than oakensoul user since they will have to actively dodge/block/heal while moving back when oakensoul user can just move back while continuing rotation.

    On a side note I must say I find it ironic that people are using argument about average player on one bar rotation doing 80-85k DPS while at the same time two bar rotations are being glorified for pulling 130k+ while average two bar player is nowhere near that value and often will be under 80-85k. Food for thought

    You are looking at the issue of one bar heavy attacks oakensoul setups too one dimensionaly. It's not just lightning staff, it's not just oakensoul, it's not just empower. It's all things combined. And Your idea about nerfing either empower or lightning staves is not solving the issue completlyy because it will nerf heavy attack setups for everyone not just oakensoul users when it's only after oakensoul arrival when issues arted to occur. It would just put heavy attack setups back into obscurity. Yes lightning staves are doing lots of damage but without oakensoul heavy attack setups still need to follow the same ruleset as all the other DDs. Even as one bar users they need to keep uptimes up, and care about mechanics the same way as everyone else. Only after equiping oakensoul issues begin because when DPS of said setups stays the same they suddenly get more defense, and extremly simplified rotation with no drawbacks to it. Crit surge wont save You from high dmg hit. High health, high resistances and lot of dmg reduction will. This is why oakensoul heavy attack sorc can even withstand Z'maja one shot in vCR. You can be almost as tanky as a tank if You want and Your DPS is not taking a big hit because most of Your dmg comes from heavy attacks and most crucial offensive and buffs are provided by oakensoul so ironically desspite being a one bar setup You have a lot of flex spots.

    I actually have an one bar heavy attack sorc which is a stamina oriented orc. Being stamina oriented makes this build even more ridicolous because while I am pulling same dmg as magicka based counterparts I can dodge, block and sprint way more than them and I can use vigor as my heal without the risk of running low on stam and since heavy attacks replenish magicka I will never run low on mag. Imperial sounds like an overkill. You can get additional health just by spending Your attributes differently and 6% lowered everything doesnt sound that great when You have zero sustain issues on both resources.

    As I already said if heavy attacks will be nerfed than it will be hit for everyone with and without oakensoul so from playerbase perspective it would be more beneficial to solve the issue of ofense and defense that oakensoul provides at the same time. Everyone would loose if ZoS would straight up nerf heavy attack setups because there would be no alternative. Personally I would love to see a situation where oakensoul heavy attack setups would pull noticably less DPS than non oakensoul heavy attack counterparts but oakensoul would still offer noticable amount of defense. That way oakensoul would become a tool to help people to get into content but there would be still incentive to improve if they would want to reach for some higher goals. As it is right now unless You are some dedicated scorepusher or extreme two bar light attack enjoyer, in vast majority of content there is really no point into building for something else than oakensoul setup.


    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by axi on 22 March 2023 21:21
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    axi wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    axi wrote: »
    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    Please show me an example of 100k+ one bar heavy attack sorc without oakensoul that will also reach similar levels of defense. We are talking about 100k DPS with 30k HP 28k resistances, and 100% uptime on self provided minor protection, aegis, mending and heroism.

    I never said 100k... which isn't even the problem, anyways --- I said about 80 to 85k which is what MOST people get with Oakensoul .... and the real issue is the live trial damage, since anybody can beat a static dummy with all the buffs, and get high numbers.....

    I agreed that the HA Lightning attacks are carrying too much damage --- but I don't agree that it is Oakensoul, as you can get the same averages without... about 37K in a trial.... and do it with a slower rotation. As for defense... I would think having the equivelent of 6600 Health regen that doesn't get effected by Battle Spirit would be enough ..... as Crit Surge has a chance to heal on every tick of that heavy staff... at that point, picking any race with a health boost, and some basic bumps with food, should make you tanky enough to just endure through.... Add a potion focused on heal, and maybe add in unsnareable.... and you will not notice the rest .... defense isn't as important, directly, when you can just continuously heal through.... read up on ball groups.

    However, if you really want to burst skulls... make an Imperial, put everything in stamina - even your armor glyphs... since damage under hybridization scales off the higher, regardless of which it is, and heavy attacks don't use resources, and refill you with every attack... In theory, that should boost the damage higher... haven't tried it yet, but by everything else we have, it should work..... Not saying it makes sense, but with the system, it would work.

    Thing is, ad hominem attacks are not helping, because if they nerf the ring, they nerf the playerbase, and everyone loses.... and the persistent issue with the combo of HA boosting armor sets, empower, and the synergy of Lightning Staves will remain.....

    Screaming about a mythic that wasn't an issue 30 days ago, and that doesn't help in PVP, and therefore only effects gatekeepers and people profiting off of carries, is NOT helping anyone......

    Auldwulfe

    I am pretty sure when person You were responding to was talking about oakensoul being better than anything else out there he/she was not talking about 80-85k DPS so Your answer about being able to do the same without oakensoul is slightly dishonest since You lowered standards just to match Your agenda. And yes I agree real trial damage is an issue and that is because in real trial while You loose almost nothing from heavy attack DPS You get lots of defense thanks to oakensoul which allows sometimes to completly ignore mechanics. That mechanic avoidance in return gives You even more DPS because other setups need to actively react to more things than oakensoul user. For example as an oakensoul user You can ignore liothis poison cone in vAS HM and continue Your rotation like it's nothing when other setups with lower defense will have to block and cause drop in their DPS and when storm heavens mechanic will start during poison cone they will be in way bigger trouble than oakensoul user since they will have to actively dodge/block/heal while moving back when oakensoul user can just move back while continuing rotation.

    On a side note I must say I find it ironic that people are using argument about average player on one bar rotation doing 80-85k DPS while at the same time two bar rotations are being glorified for pulling 130k+ while average two bar player is nowhere near that value and often will be under 80-85k. Food for thought

    You are looking at the issue of one bar heavy attacks oakensoul setups too one dimensionaly. It's not just lightning staff, it's not just oakensoul, it's not just empower. It's all things combined. And Your idea about nerfing either empower or lightning staves is not solving the issue completlyy because it will nerf heavy attack setups for everyone not just oakensoul users when it's only after oakensoul arrival when issues arted to occur. It would just put heavy attack setups back into obscurity. Yes lightning staves are doing lots of damage but without oakensoul heavy attack setups still need to follow the same ruleset as all the other DDs. Even as one bar users they need to keep uptimes up, and care about mechanics the same way as everyone else. Only after equiping oakensoul issues begin because when DPS of said setups stays the same they suddenly get more defense, and extremly simplified rotation with no drawbacks to it. Crit surge wont save You from high dmg hit. High health, high resistances and lot of dmg reduction will. This is why oakensoul heavy attack sorc can even withstand Z'maja one shot in vCR. You can be almost as tanky as a tank if You want and Your DPS is not taking a big hit because most of Your dmg comes from heavy attacks and most crucial offensive and buffs are provided by oakensoul so ironically desspite being a one bar setup You have a lot of flex spots.

    I actually have an one bar heavy attack sorc which is a stamina oriented orc. Being stamina oriented makes this build even more ridicolous because while I am pulling same dmg as magicka based counterparts I can dodge, block and sprint way more than them and I can use vigor as my heal without the risk of running low on stam and since heavy attacks replenish magicka I will never run low on mag. Imperial sounds like an overkill. You can get additional health just by spending Your attributes differently and 6% lowered everything doesnt sound that great when You have zero sustain issues on both resources.

    As I already said if heavy attacks will be nerfed than it will be hit for everyone with and without oakensoul so from playerbase perspective it would be more beneficial to solve the issue of ofense and defense that oakensoul provides at the same time. Everyone would loose if ZoS would straight up nerf heavy attack setups because there would be no alternative. Personally I would love to see a situation where oakensoul heavy attack setups would pull noticably less DPS than non oakensoul heavy attack counterparts but oakensoul would still offer noticable amount of defense. That way oakensoul would become a tool to help people to get into content but there would be still incentive to improve if they would want to reach for some higher goals. As it is right now unless You are some dedicated scorepusher or extreme two bar light attack enjoyer, in vast majority of content there is really no point into building for something else than oakensoul setup.


    You mean all I have to do is put on Oakensoul, and I can stand in stupid and take no damage?
    Last time I checked, you still have to dodge, block etc.... you can still be snared.... and like all mythics, you are deciding if you want the power from a mythic, all of which have drawbacks, in this case losing 6 skill slots, or if you want 2 full 5 piece sets and a full monster set, many of which do NOT have drawbacks.

    And yes, my resistances with Oakensoul are 4% higher, than without .... a whole 4%....
    And, let's be honest, if it is somehow wrong for people to have the buffs with Oakensoul, then it must be wrong for people to get the buffs from teammates if they don't have it......

    Again, in the end, the argument devolves back to gatekeeping, and keeping the plebs from the Holy Trials of the elite.....

    Oddly enough, I don't really use Oakensoul.... it was an interesting learning tool.... but that's about it..... but I do KNOW a huge number of people with physical disability, or age issues..... paying subscribers, by the way..... that do need it to make up for health issues.

    I understand those health issues, ... 30 years ago, as a combat army service member, I could run 11 miles with a 200 pound pack, and then jump into a battle and go out partying that night.....
    Now, I am a grandfather, and my run is capped at 5 miles... and that is a bit of a push to get there.... I have bursitis and arthritis, so not only pain and limited movement, but also occasional nerve twitches and odd responses, like telling my right index finger to push the mouse button causing the toes on my left foot to curl......

    Some days, I go for the easier one bar builds..... others I am fine, and do the two.... but I have no illusions that I'll be doing that in 10 years.
    What you are saying is that this game is so elite, it only needs activites from the proper type of player, with a proper level of ESO-ness..... and if you can't do things the prescribed way that the elites tell you... then you shouldn't be allowed to play past where they want you kept.... but keep putting in that subscriber money, because those same self described elites want the servers and devs working for them......

    As for the claim about unless you are a scorepusher, you won't build something other than oakensoul..... the thousands of casuals that log on, every day, and either RP, work housing, or just explore would refute that claim.

    For that matter, I have 6 active characters, right now, and the only one that even has the ring on is one I did a test run with, to try out something else, and see how it worked with some buffs.... and he's waiting for me to take him to the armory, and rebuild him.... and probably without the ring, he's a DK tank, and it takes too much, and taught me that even with buffs, tanks can't get away with the slot limits...... my firemage concept built on a DK... all about burn (I even joke about him being a Disco Inferno)... and stacking status with DOT.... Oakensoul is very bad for that, too

    My Ice Mage Warden... doing a bit of a shuffle, now that they changed Ice Wall... but probably not a whole lot ... still relies on stacking chilled, with frost sets, and Occult Overload explosions.......

    My Nightblade didn't even finish the delve I tried with Oakensoul, just to see how it worked, there.... I took it off...... And I am not some scorepusher.... it just didn't work well for me.
    Most of these people will use it for a bit, and then get over it.... right now, it is the Pillars of Nirn, in the first 30 days the set was out.... it is Mara's Balm at release...... and I am pretty sure, Snake in the Stars for the next period of time...... the new fad, the new thing...... and it will fade.

    Right now, the game is in an odd state -- I noted it back when U35 happened, that it was just the beginning.... now, I can out mage magicka builds by going all stamina.. etc.

    In the end, it's gatekeeping to ensure that the average players aren't allowed into the hallowed halls of trials, etc..... they can look upon their betters, via youtube videos.... but they are unworthy of treading those places themselves, unless they submit to proper subservience and obedience to specific 2 bar builds, with specific sets, and only push the buttons when they are told.......

    I, for one, am HAPPY that people are surpassing me.... and if they do it with Oakensoul, it does NOTHING to harm me, or my play, in any way, whatsoever..... Yes, I put in work, and if they get it easier.... then good on them, I am not a horse and buggy owner screaming that cars are bad, because they owners don't have to take time to care for their horse.

    I love it when I see a group... and for every single time a bad player is mentioned in these threads, I think back on the dozens of good ones.... people that are now reliable damage dealers, when I tank... that after I pull, take the creature down, and so on.

    We need MORE of them, not less.... so it would probably be a good idea not to chase them off.

    But, if you are really worried about it, you can always tell when Oakensoul is around..... horses that sweat in the mornings, cream that spoils overnight, and flames that burn pure blue..... all signs that Oakensoul is among you.......

    Auldwulfe
    Edited by Auldwulfe on 22 March 2023 21:27
  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
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    You were the person asking for an adult conversation, and now going about "elitists" and spoiled milk over a simple message containing some facts and basically defence for oaken's future and ha builds health in general. That's why people aren't responding a lot and "ignoring" even if you might have a point or two at times. You're not on war.
  • Mik195
    Mik195
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    Zezin wrote: »
    Liguar wrote: »
    N3CR01 wrote: »
    OMG, how exactly?
    This is getting all kinda stupid now.

    It was about achievements.

    Can you believe it? People using a different playstyle are getting achievements! In your own homeland! What are you going to do?

    It's not that it's a different playstyle, it's that it's better than anything else out there in that situation while at the same time being 10x easier with the mitigation of a tank on top of it.

    AND, it's completely doable without Oakensoul ..... can't fix an issue if it's constantly being diverted by a red herring.

    Auldwulfe

    Its completely doable for some people without Oakensoul and completely impossible for others. Even if I practiced for a million years, I probably couldn't play 2 bar because of nerve issues. Unless ZOS wants to give me a discount because I can't do trials, hard modes or other elite parts of the game, I appreciate them providing something that les me do more than I could before.

    With Oakensoul, I was just able to complete normal Dragonstar for the very first time. We've only been working on it for a year and a half and our clear was close enough that a fail next time is definitely a possibility.
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