Can physical traits really cross Racial boundaries?

ArchMikem

ESO's Character creation gives us limited cosmetic variety depending on the Race, but Lore I believe stated that interracial breeding between Men and Mer when successful has the child taking after the Mother, while still acquiring secondary traits from the Father. If this is the case, would, say, a Dunmer getting fair skin and blond hair from a Nord Father be possible?



Actually wouldn't this more resemble what the Chimer looked like, before their Daedric alteration?

Soarora

Ah the great debate of interracial offspring. Although it's commonly accepted in the lore community that by lore offspring take after their parents race... it's all based on a book written by Imperial students. Something that's always bothered me is that the community rarely ever, if ever, takes unreliable narrators into account. With this in mind, you can choose to believe the Imperial students or that interracial mixes create interracial offspring. This also bleeds into how much the father's traits can appear-- it's all up to you.
Personally, I go with: offspring are interracial but claim to be the mother's race, several traits from the father. Such as I have a breton-bosmer hybrid who's short and has longer ears than normal. So by my rules, sure, I don't see why not.
By stricter rules as written by the Imperial students, it'd probably be more restricted to hair color and not skin color as well.

colossalvoids

I'm actually glad we're having such boundaries to have some sort of consistency with races and imagery. Generally it's written vague enough for you to decide if that's fitting for your personal narrative but not supported by basic character creation which you can at times surpass by cosmetics in this particular game or mods in other titles if it's so desirable.

Amottica

It is certainly possible as we have the Bretton. We are always welcome to RP as we choose with such things, however, it is unlikely to be added to the game for obvious reasons.

Dr_Con

Honestly that looks like a dunmer serial killer who is wearing the skin of a nord or breton

Naryu is that you?

RaddlemanNumber7

Things I think are worth considering...

Dunmer eye and skin colouration are a curse, not genetic. If it's Dunmer, it's cursed. Only living gods get to opt out.

But, the Vestige is made out of chaotic creatia. So, maybe no rules apply.

Ultimately, it's the Player's choice.

VaranisArano

Where I come down on the topic is that interracial couples aren't that uncommon in Tamriel, so it says something when the common wisdom is that the children take after the race of their mother.

Like, yes, we can claim "unreliable narrator," but if they were wrong, it's exceptionally easy to disprove. The children of interracial couples have innate racial skills that match their mother. It's particularly obvious in past games, where you've got racial powers such as the ability of a Dunmer child to call on their ancestors in the Sanctuary spell or the Nord Battle Cry. Unlike in the real world, it's very easy to determine what race someone is in Tamriel.

It's very tempting to say "Oh, but that's gameplay" because the Devs clearly aren't going to design a bunch of intermediate appearances for interracial children. But even then, we don't see a lot of mixed appearances in lore OR gameplay.

What we see in game and in the lore is pretty simply explained by the common wisdom that the children take after the race of their mother in every major way. There's no body of counterexamples that I'm aware of, even though if that book were wrong, we'd expect to see plenty of contradictions. On the flip side, when gameplay matches lore, I think that's a pretty strong argument in favor of the lore being accurate.


As far as the original question, to be Dunmer is to be under Azura's curse, shown through the changed ashen skin and eyes. That's a magical change and thus a major part of their racial identity. So I'd argue that just as the child of a Dunmer mother is going to have the racial skills/passives/powers of a Dunmer, they would also have the Azura-cursed skin and eyes.

chessalavakia_ESO

Lord Bacaro Volorus is probably one of your better candidates to argue that on rare very rare occasions some traits come from the male as well. But, it's not exactly common and could be argued that it's an error.



His mother was a Breton and his father was an Imperial and one could argue he looks more Imperial.

This thread from reddit might interest you but, it does contain some lore spoilers.

https://old.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/10k5ve1/lord_baconator_is_the_1st_npc_to_resemble_their/

Soarora

VaranisArano wrote: »

Where I come down on the topic is that interracial couples aren't that uncommon in Tamriel, so it says something when the common wisdom is that the children take after the race of their mother.

Like, yes, we can claim "unreliable narrator," but if they were wrong, it's exceptionally easy to disprove. The children of interracial couples have innate racial skills that match their mother. It's particularly obvious in past games, where you've got racial powers such as the ability of a Dunmer child to call on their ancestors in the Sanctuary spell or the Nord Battle Cry. Unlike in the real world, it's very easy to determine what race someone is in Tamriel.

It's very tempting to say "Oh, but that's gameplay" because the Devs clearly aren't going to design a bunch of intermediate appearances for interracial children. But even then, we don't see a lot of mixed appearances in lore OR gameplay.

What we see in game and in the lore is pretty simply explained by the common wisdom that the children take after the race of their mother in every major way. There's no body of counterexamples that I'm aware of, even though if that book were wrong, we'd expect to see plenty of contradictions. On the flip side, when gameplay matches lore, I think that's a pretty strong argument in favor of the lore being accurate.


As far as the original question, to be Dunmer is to be under Azura's curse, shown through the changed ashen skin and eyes. That's a magical change and thus a major part of their racial identity. So I'd argue that just as the child of a Dunmer mother is going to have the racial skills/passives/powers of a Dunmer, they would also have the Azura-cursed skin and eyes.

I don't recall any interracial lore figures who are stated to be the race of their mother, though I will not claim they do not exist. I like your thinking despite my disagreement. And I didn't even think about the curse, oops.

I believe bretons tend to be the loophole argument but I suppose one could argue that the nedes as a "proto-race" had some kind of innate ability to change, like how the aldmer were able to completely become different races fairly quickly.

KingArthasMenethil

To quote someone in regards to interracial stuff.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Lost_Fort_Faleria (Ayleid-Imperial Hybrid, features skipping generations)
- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Brief_History_of_the_Empire_v_2 (Cassynder and Uriel IV Septim)
- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aeliah_Renmus (Redguard-Imperial Hybrid)
- The existence of the Breton Race (Nede-Altmeri Hybrid)
- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Augustine_Viliane_Answers_Your_Questions (Dumonte Dynasty, Bretons with elven features due to modern day mixing with Direnni Altmer)
- https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah (Jagar Tharn being Bosmer-Imperial-Dunmer-Altmer, see also his Arena Portrait)

But if we look at the outdated "Notes on Racial Phylogeny"
"Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present"
Generally doesn't mean always so by that book you'd be able to get the racial traits of the father.