PvP If solo or small team - future

hhk · February 2023

Where to start!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

As a solo or small-scale player I'm frustrated with the limitations imposed on our gear setup in PvP combat without champion points (NO-CP). Often, we find ourselves fighting against one to three players or a "zerg," which requires us to rely on our abilities and available resources. Unfortunately, these resources have been consistently weakened over the years, making it difficult to combat zergs effectively.

1. Health Recovery in PvP = It is nothing you build or rely on anymore
2. Major protection = Down from 30% to 10%..
3. Healing received = lowered
4. Overall dmg has increased
5. Mist Form = Getting pretty much useless for prime-time situations.

Indeed, it is true. The majority of players rely on quick attacks, including pew pew, (sniping, and fragging.) How could Mist-Form (three projectiles) protect me from attacks that hits within a matter of seconds? (prime time) Frankly, I wouldn't even consider saving a slot for that skill in my ability bar..

In my opinion, it makes no sense to nerf a skill because only a small fraction of players understand how to use it. We need changes that will help players to play in small teams or solo to compete effectively against zergs. As it stands, we are creating a one-way street that favors players who "don't even have healing skills only a bow or a staff". We need a more balanced approach to make ESO PvP more enjoyable for all players.

Don't get me wrong, there are still options out there, I am talking about the current trend.. the trend itself does not look very enjoyable...

Evrieleth · February 2023

They stated multiple times that they want numbers to always win, no matter the individual skill of the player. It doesn't matter if you put effort and time in mastering your class and putting together a good build, they want every player to feel powerful with near to no effort. That's the route they're going to, both PVP and PVE. The entire concept of raising the floor and lowering the cieling is flawed, you should reach the cieling by learning the game, nothing should be handed for free. But since they keep listening to the complaints of people who don't understand the game, ESO is in the miserable state that is in now. There are people that tryhard you just by spamming heavy attacks and when they inevitably get 1vX'd they whisper you in rage that you are a cheater, because no one should make them feel like they're not an hero. Sadly that's the people the devs are catering to.

As for mist's change i don't really mind, i prefer Race Against Time anyway.

Artim_X · February 2023

NoCP camps seem dead on PC NA. Maybe they should re-enable proc sets in a NoCP environment to bring back set variety.

OBJnoob · February 2023

Evrieleth wrote: »

They stated multiple times that they want numbers to always win, no matter the individual skill of the player. It doesn't matter if you put effort and time in mastering your class and putting together a good build, they want every player to feel powerful with near to no effort. That's the route they're going to, both PVP and PVE. The entire concept of raising the floor and lowering the cieling is flawed, you should reach the cieling by learning the game, nothing should be handed for free. But since they keep listening to the complaints of people who don't understand the game, ESO is in the miserable state that is in now. There are people that tryhard you just by spamming heavy attacks and when they inevitably get 1vX'd they whisper you in rage that you are a cheater, because no one should make them feel like they're not an hero. Sadly that's the people the devs are catering to.

As for mist's change i don't really mind, i prefer Race Against Time anyway.

Funny really because I feel the exact same but in the opposite way. I think the problem is that people assume, because others may run in a group, that they haven't taken the time to master their class or learn the game. When the truth may be that not only have they done that but they've also taken the time to study group dynamics.

An Xer may separate one group member from their group, beat their butt, and leave with the impression that this group player is bad. But the group player may know very well how to make an X build, happens to be on something more team oriented, and can't compete in this scenario.

That same Xer will realize the strength of the group when encountering the group as a whole and quickly cry foul when they get rolled over by a concerted offensive effort backed by group buffs and heals-- which that one "weak" member of the group is an integral part of.

So who has got the hero complex? The player that builds to be impotent 1v1 and relies on teamwork? Or the guy that wants groups to be subject to special game-imposed restrictions so that he can compete against 5, 10, 20 people??

In an MMO, particularly in a zone like cyrodiil, it should be clear that the intended style of warfare would be GvG.

It does not seem to me like ZOS shows favoritism towards groups. In fact it seems to me like sets and abilities designed to combat groups are CONSTANTLY being fed to us and then promptly nerfed when, surprise surprise, groups make use of them too.

These sets turn out to be the most broken, exploitable, and out of balance things because the only thing that would ever let 1 player beat 5 players of equal skill IS something broken exploitable and out of balance.

Evrieleth · February 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

Evrieleth wrote: »

They stated multiple times that they want numbers to always win, no matter the individual skill of the player. It doesn't matter if you put effort and time in mastering your class and putting together a good build, they want every player to feel powerful with near to no effort. That's the route they're going to, both PVP and PVE. The entire concept of raising the floor and lowering the cieling is flawed, you should reach the cieling by learning the game, nothing should be handed for free. But since they keep listening to the complaints of people who don't understand the game, ESO is in the miserable state that is in now. There are people that tryhard you just by spamming heavy attacks and when they inevitably get 1vX'd they whisper you in rage that you are a cheater, because no one should make them feel like they're not an hero. Sadly that's the people the devs are catering to.

As for mist's change i don't really mind, i prefer Race Against Time anyway.

Funny really because I feel the exact same but in the opposite way. I think the problem is that people assume, because others may run in a group, that they haven't taken the time to master their class or learn the game. When the truth may be that not only have they done that but they've also taken the time to study group dynamics.

An Xer may separate one group member from their group, beat their butt, and leave with the impression that this group player is bad. But the group player may know very well how to make an X build, happens to be on something more team oriented, and can't compete in this scenario.

That same Xer will realize the strength of the group when encountering the group as a whole and quickly cry foul when they get rolled over by a concerted offensive effort backed by group buffs and heals-- which that one "weak" member of the group is an integral part of.

So who has got the hero complex? The player that builds to be impotent 1v1 and relies on teamwork? Or the guy that wants groups to be subject to special game-imposed restrictions so that he can compete against 5, 10, 20 people??

In an MMO, particularly in a zone like cyrodiil, it should be clear that the intended style of warfare would be GvG.

It does not seem to me like ZOS shows favoritism towards groups. In fact it seems to me like sets and abilities designed to combat groups are CONSTANTLY being fed to us and then promptly nerfed when, surprise surprise, groups make use of them too.

These sets turn out to be the most broken, exploitable, and out of balance things because the only thing that would ever let 1 player beat 5 players of equal skill IS something broken exploitable and out of balance.

I'm not talking about an organized group, why would a solo player go bother fighting a full raid? If they try to chase one player down they usually kill him instantly or get trolled in a tower untill they get bored. I'm talking about the average zergling, those who will just spam overload or toxic barrage and most of the times get killed when they get reflected by spell wall for example.

I never said anything about being able to compete with 20 people because the game allows it, i'm all for good fights and never complained about any nerfs they did even if they impacted directly my playstyle. I adapted and worked around them. The thought i always had was: "if they think that X or Y is so OP that carry this player, why don't they use it?". Everyone is subject to the same rules so if i use something, you can use it too. No one can beat 5 players of equal skill even with the most broken sets, if you win a 1v5 it's because you are clearly a better player and that has nothing to do with sets or group build, it's a matter of game mechanics and slow reaction in which the 5 who lose to the 1 are clearly lacking.

Those lacking players and devs listening to them, is the reason why ESO has become a joke of an MMO. Just look at templar's Jabs, no one with half a brain could die to just jabs spamming and still they nerfed into the ground because some braindead NB tried to constantly cloak in front of a jabbing templar

Evrieleth · February 2023

Artim_X wrote: »

NoCP camps seem dead on PC NA. Maybe they should re-enable proc sets in a NoCP environment to bring back set variety.

NO thanks. No-CP is so much more enjoyable to play without all that procs nonsense, if they had to re-enable procs on No-CP the only one they should reintroduce should be stats and buff procs, not other effects.

Reintroducing sets like Clever Alchemist, Powerful Assault, Daedrick Trickery or any sets that work like those would be good. But keep that Dark Convergence/Rush of Agony crap away from No-CP.

OBJnoob · February 2023

@Evrieleth well, sorry for misunderstanding you then.

But so I'm left not knowing what you meant though. How do you mean the game is making it so bad players can be better? The one example/reference I did understand was about heavy attacks. But empower was removed from PvP so... I don't get it.

Evrieleth · February 2023

@OBJnoob my heavy attack reference is not about how effective they are, the exact opposite. Was about players playing in ineffective ways and then complaining when they get beaten by players who actually min/max their build, leading to changes that badly impact the game and its balance.

About the game making bad players better, that's what they say since forever with all that lowering the cieling and raising the floor stuff, which results in changes poorly recieved by the community while completely missing their goal. Just look at update 35. The game can be played at many levels, that's why you have normal, veteran and HM for PVE content. PVP it's the same you can play it at many levels, it's on you which one you want to play.

The problem is that devs clearly cater towards casuals who don't really understand the game and prefer to see others brought down instead of putting a little bit of effort into actually put together a good build or simply learning from their mistakes

OBJnoob · February 2023

I don't remember seeing heavy attacker's in PvP complaining about dying. I definitely remember people complaining about dying TO the heavy attackers. And so heavy attacks were nerfed for PvP.

Evrieleth · February 2023

I regularly get whispers from players obviously playing suboptimal builds, calling me a cheater after i kill them. I even got a long in-game mail from someone telling me how i should feel bad about using animation canceling to get an advantage on other players, so this kind of trend is definitely in the game. You can even see on forums how many posts about nerfing X or Y there are, and when you actually read them you understand where they come from

OBJnoob · February 2023

Well. I guess I'm just glad I play on Xbox. Not having a keyboard is a pretty good deterrent to salty messages. You have to REALLY be mad, lol.