Vent your frustrations here - Unbalanced DKs

Mansquito

Yes, yes, I am an incompetent player blah blah blah but, [snip]

Best heals in the game by a country mile - check
Insane resource regen from broken class passive - check
Elemental effect bonus against majority of players - check
Most OP ultimate that is actually just in a complete league of its own - check

One only has to look at the number of DKs in the game/Cyro to see how absurd it is, it's completely unfair on the other classes, especially the underpowered/nerfed ones, yet nothing is done about it. In fact, the devs in all their wisdom thought that in the PTS the DK class should get a buff instead. [snip]

I am not a fan of nerfing, so please, please buff other classes and their skills, ultimates and passives to the same level. That or nerf Corrosive Armour, Coagulating Blood and the ridiculous passive that grants resources depending on ulti spend.

At the moment Corrosive Armour coupled with Coagulating Blood just provides too many benefits. Can run tanky in medium and/or heavy sets ,don't need pen, just stack ulti regen. Don't need resource regen due to passive and spammable skill 'abuse'. On top of it, they also get damage reduction. Not to mention that you don't even have to run all damage as you get 15 to 20% on probably 75% of the player base thanks to all the flame skills.

It's hugely unbalanced. Come on fellow players who are fed up of chasing DK after DK after DK in towers only to get stomped by roaming groups of DKs and Wardens out in the wild. Join me in my rant and vent your frustrations here.

[edited for bashing]

AdamLAD

Agreed. Not much else to say....... buff sorc XD

Kaysha

Sad but true

tnanever

Yep. Dropped my subscription a while ago [snip]. I check back once in a while to see if it's any better - but it seems to be worse now. Sad.

And yes, buff sorc already.

[edited for bashing]

Thecompton73

So everyone's healing, mitigation and resource generation should be so out of whack no one ever dies on any class? People really need to think when they use the whole" bring every one up because I'm not in favor of nerfing anything" mantra just so they don't get jumped on by the DK defense force.

Meurto

All you need to do is see all the low rank DKs in cyro to get an idea of what is happening here. They have raised the floor so high on this class that you have to duck so you don't hit the ceiling.

nuttytom

WHO LET HIM COOK???????

TheMightyRevan

this is the place for some fumeing

DrNukenstein

We're still complaining about corrosive? you just have to wait it out for 12 seconds and avoid them when they're green. Just hope they don't fling poop (fossilize, another huge problem of a class skill) at you while you're running away.

Let's talk about leap. That skill is a big problem when multiple dks on the same side are using it at the same time. Why is it a big problem? read on to find out.

-Even with really really good internet, It freezes you for like a quarter second when one of them casts it and then it CC's you when it hits. The cc doesn't even matter when more than one is leaping because you get put in lag jail until they're all done ulting you and/or your team and you're all 8k past dead.
-It does way too much unavoidable damage in a large aoe. The base value of unmorphed leap is 4241. By comparison the base value of incap, a dodgeable single target ult that costs about as much or more when it stuns is 3718. Major evasion isn't even an argument when that just steps the damage down to being about the same as an incap... in an aoe that can and will hit everyone trying to cap a flag.
-One morph gives a shield that can eat more than entire burst combo at the opportunity cost of only costing 15 more ultimate and doing about 15% less damage
-Delayed impact. Means that followup whip is near unavoidable.

I'm not saying dk is the most problematic class in the game, but they have some very problematic (to play against) abilities.

malistorr

I personally haven't had an ESO+ account in a couple of years because of the sorry state of PVP. Until they fix the bugs, increase performance, and make the classes more balanced I either play the game without ESO+ and buying crowns or not at all. Last night I moved on to another game and may not come back. We'll see. I may monitor if things improve but if they do not, I've had enough of ESO and the micro-transactions. Good for ZOS I guess if people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars a year on this game. I refuse to be one of them since the dev clearly has ignored the PVP community for years. Remember the video clip of a high-ranking ZOS representative saying that new server hardware wouldn't help PVP performance???! LOL

And oh yeah, DKs are so very OP compared to other classes. I am an all-damage NB and it's rare I can find a DK that is bad or low-level enough that I can actually kill them 1V1. Maybe some people think that a class that can't be killed without being zerged down by at least a mid-sized group makes the game fun/better. I hate it and class balance is soo bad right now that it ruins the game.

NordSwordnBoard

Thecompton73 wrote: »

So everyone's healing, mitigation and resource generation should be so out of whack no one ever dies on any class? People really need to think when they use the whole" bring every one up because I'm not in favor of nerfing anything" mantra just so they don't get jumped on by the DK defense force.

DK defense force: Equip corrosive, resistance is futile.

CompM4s

DrNukenstein wrote: »

We're still complaining about corrosive? you just have to wait it out for 12 seconds and avoid them when they're green. Just hope they don't fling poop (fossilize, another huge problem of a class skill) at you while you're running away.

Let's talk about leap. That skill is a big problem when multiple dks on the same side are using it at the same time. Why is it a big problem? read on to find out.

-Even with really really good internet, It freezes you for like a quarter second when one of them casts it and then it CC's you when it hits. The cc doesn't even matter when more than one is leaping because you get put in lag jail until they're all done ulting you and/or your team and you're all 8k past dead.
-It does way too much unavoidable damage in a large aoe. The base value of unmorphed leap is 4241. By comparison the base value of incap, a dodgeable single target ult that costs about as much or more when it stuns is 3718. Major evasion isn't even an argument when that just steps the damage down to being about the same as an incap... in an aoe that can and will hit everyone trying to cap a flag.
-One morph gives a shield that can eat more than entire burst combo at the opportunity cost of only costing 15 more ultimate and doing about 15% less damage
-Delayed impact. Means that followup whip is near unavoidable.

I'm not saying dk is the most problematic class in the game, but they have some very problematic (to play against) abilities.

Just saying running away for 12 seconds is terrible defense for justifying corrosive armor. You know so many people stack ult regen so they have a huge uptime of corrosive.

DrNukenstein

CompM4s wrote: »

Just saying running away for 12 seconds is terrible defense for justifying corrosive armor. You know so many people stack ult regen so they have a huge uptime of corrosive.

No doubt corrosive is hard to play against. It's even tricky to tell when it's up at sight when buffs are stacked. But when you see your big damage move hit for 800, you can at least try to run away and go fight someone else. It's avoidable, unlike leap which is both the most potent engage and kill secure in the game. At least one of the AOE, the cc/laglock, or overtuned damage needs to go.

Kaysha

The balance is so extremely in favor of DKs right now, that it does not make sense to do any PvP at all. I´ve been playing this game since beta and I have to say that it has never been as bad as this. To be honest, I´ve never seen an imbalance like this in the games I played before or during ESO, being DAoC (hello alb sorc) or WoW (hello undead rogue).

AdamLAD

The most unbalanced a class has ever been was warden a few years ago when it could get 50k to 60kHP 6k weapon damage 10k pen in heavy, unlimited sustain with crimson and vatren 2H with malacath (25%) You could survive entire zergs, build up ultimate with balahorgs to 500 turn round and completely obliterate about 10 people with dawnbreaker, vatren 2h, beetles and crimson. Nothing comes close to how broke that was.

Theignson

DKs are monsters now. Long ago they were also very strong (stam DK). But for about two years, I had no use for my Stam DK which was my original character-- they were weak in Pvp.

Now DK is super strong and is a hybrid.

This is how it goes. Templar was very strong last year but have been nerfed into the ground.

HowlKimchi

tnanever wrote: »

Yep. Dropped my subscription a while ago [snip]. I check back once in a while to see if it's any better - but it seems to be worse now. Sad.

And yes, buff sorc already.

[edited for bashing]

How are you checking back once in a while? Just checking the forums and watching youtube videos? Because I was like that for about a year. Then I redownloaded the game and I'm having a blast. The performance is waaaayy better from when I quit last time.

Sure DKs *can be* overpowered, but they're not insurmountable. They're super slow compared to my stamsorc anyway so I can just disengage.

MEBengalsFan2001

Kaysha wrote: »

The balance is so extremely in favor of DKs right now, that it does not make sense to do any PvP at all. I´ve been playing this game since beta and I have to say that it has never been as bad as this. To be honest, I´ve never seen an imbalance like this in the games I played before or during ESO, being DAoC (hello alb sorc) or WoW (hello undead rogue).

Warden's are right there with them. Warden get 12%% damage buff using a frost staff, 5% from bird of prey, crit damage increase from having animal abilities slotted, free cleanse from betty, damage reduction from frost cloak and a longer uptime on its buff, roots from using ice abilities which IMO is a better root than talons, access to major and minor breach in one ability.

As I said in another discussion Wardens and DK are nearly identical in how you can play them. Both are better at melee range, both have great CC, great heals, great buffs and debuffs. Both are tough to take down when 1v1 if you are playing a Templar, Necro or Sorc.

In fact you can add NB into the Warden and DK discussion.

I keep hearing a few things with PVP. Lower healing potential. Bring the other classes damage up to DK, Warden and NB.

IMO, if the devs simply lowered healing you would see more players on DK, Warden and NB simply because they have better tools to survive that are not heals. Roots provide DK and Warden the ability to use a speed boosting ability like Birds of Prey to escape heal up and return to the fight. NB would still be hard given invisibility and how bad the counters work to see a NB are even if you are using more than a potion to see them.

I'm all for lowering healing when you are playing as a damage dealer or tank. I'm all for lowering a players resistance or decreasing damage mitigation if a player is playing a damage dealer or healer. I'm all for damage dealers doing a bit more damage than a tank or healer. What I'm talking about is making ROLES matter in PVP content. Having Battle Spirit impact your stats based on your role selected.

I would be fine with the devs adjusting battle spirit by role only after all classes skills get some type of baseline value that is adjusted based on a variety of factors such as does the ability buff the player, does it debuff a target, is it a AoE, is it burst or a DoT, etc... the more variables the lower the base damage is. For instance, Warden Deep Fissure should do less damage than say Scorch.

We may see players dropping a morph for a base ability if that base ability damage is high enough to forgo the morph for its bonus feature.

Caribou77

Gotta love it when people try to defend Corrosive.

The only people still playing DK are simps who are happy “winning” without competing.

Honestly, I’d be unable to enjoy pvp if DK was my main/favorite class.

It’s in a ridiculously unbalanced place. That is not debatable.

Holycannoli

DrNukenstein wrote: »

We're still complaining about corrosive? you just have to wait it out for 12 seconds and avoid them when they're green. Just hope they don't fling poop (fossilize, another huge problem of a class skill) at you while you're running away.

When the solution to a skill/ultimate being used is "run away" it means it's broken.

It's not the only problem with PvP at the moment but it is a problem. IMO the ridiculous tanky meta is a bigger problem overall. Bring back the days when DoTs were dangerous and tanks couldn't just wade through hordes of enemies while burning down siege.

kurbbie_s

DrNukenstein wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Just saying running away for 12 seconds is terrible defense for justifying corrosive armor. You know so many people stack ult regen so they have a huge uptime of corrosive.

No doubt corrosive is hard to play against. It's even tricky to tell when it's up at sight when buffs are stacked. But when you see your big damage move hit for 800, you can at least try to run away and go fight someone else. It's avoidable, unlike leap which is both the most potent engage and kill secure in the game. At least one of the AOE, the cc/laglock, or overtuned damage needs to go.

the point is you shouldnt have to run away from a fight. You should be able to stand your ground and use your skills to fight them off. Not run.

DrNukenstein

Well technically you can try to stack a bunch of DOTs on them while keeping space, but I don't use dots so I just run until I see them taking significant damage again.

I am 100% serious that leap is the bigger problem. It does way too many things for it's cost and hits too big of an area, while also benefitting from this games performance issues. I mean people hate on a lot of playstyles that make them mad, but the worst and most obnoxious of all is when 3 players of this games most popular class use their foreheads to push their R key and bazooka themselves into a crowd of players on any of the less loaded classes.

And it's not just the ult, it's the follow up too. There's leap>whirling blades (my favorite thing to see on my recap). There's leap>whip for when you really want to make someone feel like they're special. There's proxy det>leap>rush of agony>doesn't even matter what they do at that point. There's leap>reverse slice if they like 2h more than dw. The sky is the limit, and there's tons more that I'm not listing here. Point is it's a high damage, delayed impact, nearly unavoidable move that enables an equally unavoidable follow up.

And it's not so bad when it's just one or 2 dk's on the same time. But it's really common to see a 3 or 4 dk team.

I think a very good, small, "throw us a bone" pvp feature would be if the game would distribute classes between teams so that unless the team is premade or there are 10+ of the same class in the match each team is well rounded with diverse class representation.

KingLewie_III

When roughly 75% of players you see in PVP are DK, there’s a problem.

The 3 seconds of inability to control your character after being hit with a leap needs fixed immediately.

I’ll also never feel like corrosive is balanced. You get 12 seconds of God Mode, 100% pen and 97% mitigation at the same time. An ult gen build can hold some ridiculous uptime on this ultimate as well, and the visual effect it has can be easily overlooked when stacked with all the other buffs.

Meanwhile Templar and Necro have been left to rot. At least Sorc got mentioned in the patch notes, but I foresee that being nerfed when someone makes a Stamsorc with a 15k shield that two taps everything it touches. Happens everytime they try to throw Sorc a bone.

Sergykid

KingLewie_III wrote: »

When roughly 75% of players you see in PVP are DK, there’s a problem.

The 3 seconds of inability to control your character after being hit with a leap needs fixed immediately.

I’ll also never feel like corrosive is balanced. You get 12 seconds of God Mode, 100% pen and 97% mitigation at the same time. An ult gen build can hold some ridiculous uptime on this ultimate as well, and the visual effect it has can be easily overlooked when stacked with all the other buffs.

Meanwhile Templar and Necro have been left to rot. At least Sorc got mentioned in the patch notes, but I foresee that being nerfed when someone makes a Stamsorc with a 15k shield that two taps everything it touches. Happens everytime they try to throw Sorc a bone.

25 are dk, rest is 25 warden 25 nb and 25 other classes.
leap is 1 second and that if u don't block it.

corros has a 97 cap, not mitigation. If a dot hits 1000 and dk has corros up, it will still get hit with 1000, so no mitigation. If a sorc frag hit 5000 again it will not mitigate it 97%, but max 3% of dk hp so maybe 1000.
also if dk depends on ult pen then will be mostly useless out of it, and if ult gen build then again quite useless cuz no stats or defenses

Thecompton73

Caribou77 wrote: »

Gotta love it when people try to defend Corrosive.

The only people still playing DK are simps who are happy “winning” without competing.

Honestly, I’d be unable to enjoy pvp if DK was my main/favorite class.

It’s in a ridiculously unbalanced place. That is not debatable.

Nah, all those players have moved onto running React's NB build which is nearly as durable but has a burst that will kill just about anyone if they get caught by it.

flguy147ub17_ESO

I returned after about a 3 year break about 7-8 weeks ago. I mainly play BGs, just unsubbed and uninstalled due to DKs only and i even have a DK but refuse to play a broken class. I can hit them with everything combo wise with Dawnbreaker and it will tickle them and they just turn around and kill me in like couple secs what seems like in game almost instant. I have over 30k resist with 31.8k heath. Its just not fun at all knowing i have zero chance against any DK that is above average with a solid build.

KingLewie_III

Sergykid wrote: »

KingLewie_III wrote: »

When roughly 75% of players you see in PVP are DK, there’s a problem.

The 3 seconds of inability to control your character after being hit with a leap needs fixed immediately.

I’ll also never feel like corrosive is balanced. You get 12 seconds of God Mode, 100% pen and 97% mitigation at the same time. An ult gen build can hold some ridiculous uptime on this ultimate as well, and the visual effect it has can be easily overlooked when stacked with all the other buffs.

Meanwhile Templar and Necro have been left to rot. At least Sorc got mentioned in the patch notes, but I foresee that being nerfed when someone makes a Stamsorc with a 15k shield that two taps everything it touches. Happens everytime they try to throw Sorc a bone.

25 are dk, rest is 25 warden 25 nb and 25 other classes.
leap is 1 second and that if u don't block it.

corros has a 97 cap, not mitigation. If a dot hits 1000 and dk has corros up, it will still get hit with 1000, so no mitigation. If a sorc frag hit 5000 again it will not mitigate it 97%, but max 3% of dk hp so maybe 1000.
also if dk depends on ult pen then will be mostly useless out of it, and if ult gen build then again quite useless cuz no stats or defenses

You can build for ult and defense pretty easily just with bloodspawn and daedric trickery. Then just camp a backbar until your corrosive pops.

Iriidius

DK was buffed in update 32 and 33 after beeing one of the worst classes for years and already received nerfs in update 34 and 35.
leap is good ultimate but not op, dawnbreaker has almost same initial dmg and a strong dot(dk use dots anyway), some dks use dawnbreaker over leap, streak or toppling charge are also gap closers with stun.
To make full use of corrosive you have to build without penetration, which reduces your dmg outside corrosive and your dot dmg very much and you have to built for ultimate regen. Dks with penetration and low ult regen often dont even have corrosive slottet. Corrosive armor definitely has drawback, you loose penetration outside corrosive and complete dot penetration, cant use leap and your mitigation is limited to 3% of you max hp, not 3% of attack dmg, leaving you vulnerable to attacks with multiple low dmg hits like Dots, AOE Dots(hurricane, blade cloak), channels(flury, Jabs), rending sleshes, force shock, draugrkin usw.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Kaysha wrote: »

The balance is so extremely in favor of DKs right now, that it does not make sense to do any PvP at all. I´ve been playing this game since beta and I have to say that it has never been as bad as this. To be honest, I´ve never seen an imbalance like this in the games I played before or during ESO, being DAoC (hello alb sorc) or WoW (hello undead rogue).

Warden's are right there with them. Warden get 12%% damage buff using a frost staff, 5% from bird of prey, crit damage increase from having animal abilities slotted, free cleanse from betty, damage reduction from frost cloak and a longer uptime on its buff, roots from using ice abilities which IMO is a better root than talons, access to major and minor breach in one ability.

As I said in another discussion Wardens and DK are nearly identical in how you can play them. Both are better at melee range, both have great CC, great heals, great buffs and debuffs. Both are tough to take down when 1v1 if you are playing a Templar, Necro or Sorc.

In fact you can add NB into the Warden and DK discussion.

I keep hearing a few things with PVP. Lower healing potential. Bring the other classes damage up to DK, Warden and NB.

IMO, if the devs simply lowered healing you would see more players on DK, Warden and NB simply because they have better tools to survive that are not heals. Roots provide DK and Warden the ability to use a speed boosting ability like Birds of Prey to escape heal up and return to the fight. NB would still be hard given invisibility and how bad the counters work to see a NB are even if you are using more than a potion to see them.

I'm all for lowering healing when you are playing as a damage dealer or tank. I'm all for lowering a players resistance or decreasing damage mitigation if a player is playing a damage dealer or healer. I'm all for damage dealers doing a bit more damage than a tank or healer. What I'm talking about is making ROLES matter in PVP content. Having Battle Spirit impact your stats based on your role selected.

I would be fine with the devs adjusting battle spirit by role only after all classes skills get some type of baseline value that is adjusted based on a variety of factors such as does the ability buff the player, does it debuff a target, is it a AoE, is it burst or a DoT, etc... the more variables the lower the base damage is. For instance, Warden Deep Fissure should do less damage than say Scorch.

We may see players dropping a morph for a base ability if that base ability damage is high enough to forgo the morph for its bonus feature.

ZoS shouldnt enforce role specialisation in PvP only because we have roles in Eso dungeons and Trials. Roles are only an option if you play in an organized group that always runs together where every role is performed by someone. If your group wants to use roles, you can already do that. Most ballgroups consist of 6 dds, 4 healers and 2 supports(not tanks, because there is no taunt in PvP, enemy players attack whoever they want, preferebly your squisiest target).
You cant specialize into a role if you play without group/with randoms. You cant even travel back to your group alone if you get killed or come back from break. You cant play a dd without selheal without healer except you are a ganker that oneshots victim or dies. You cant play healer if there is noone to heal. You cant play squishy healer without friendly targets to heal because you cant kill anyone alone and just get burstet. You cant play tank without self heal and healer because you just get parsed like a dummy.
Most PvP builds you find in Internet deal damage, heal themselves and take dmg and can also be used solo. Not only solo players but also most smallscalers and many zerg surfers and PuG members use solo builds because they dont always get healed enaugh or get seperated from theit group sometimes.

Bushido2513

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

Gotta love it when people try to defend Corrosive.

The only people still playing DK are simps who are happy “winning” without competing.

Honestly, I’d be unable to enjoy pvp if DK was my main/favorite class.

It’s in a ridiculously unbalanced place. That is not debatable.

Nah, all those players have moved onto running React's NB build which is nearly as durable but has a burst that will kill just about anyone if they get caught by it.

I'm not as sure on that one, the NB requires a bit more skill. DK is basically block heal and do whatever you want. NB requires a bit more buff management which is fine if you were used to playing NB before but if you're not it kinda can seem like a pain vs ESO and chill DK playstyle.

xMauiWaui

100% agree. Dk is too strong atm.

Corrosiv Ulti? Be fair we talk that since years. Maybee deal with it. And Mag Dk was trash with Corrosiv like 2-3 Year^^


But i wanna say, alot player think we can do a completly Balanced game. thats not true. Theres no 100% Balanced Game^^

I mean im 98% against Zos balance, but you will every see s Tier and B Tier Classes. And im happy if every class get a bit on S-Tier list sometime.


I mean i can feel the Sorc Players, but i mean how long dit i wait for get my Stam Sorc, Mag Dk or Mag NB to Top Tier? : D

axi

Kaysha wrote: »

The balance is so extremely in favor of DKs right now, that it does not make sense to do any PvP at all. I´ve been playing this game since beta and I have to say that it has never been as bad as this. To be honest, I´ve never seen an imbalance like this in the games I played before or during ESO, being DAoC (hello alb sorc) or WoW (hello undead rogue).

It has been worse than this many times in the past. DK itself right now despite being strong is nothing compared to DK at release.