Help on Choosing a Nightblade as in race and mag vs stam?

flguy147ub17_ESO

Hello, i have played every class except NB so i think i finally want to give it a go. So this is for PVP only related.

1. What is the big differences between going Mag vs Stam for a NB?
2. Also for each one what is the best race for both mag and stam? If there is a couple equal races then please let me know.

Thank you

fred4

These days I see no reason to play a pure stamblade. While that class has always had somewhat high magicka sustain requirements for Cloak, Shadow Image and, in the past, Mass Hysteria, nowadays you will likely want to add Merciless Resolve and Healthy / Shrewd Offering to that list. The former, because it hits harder than Relentless Focus, and the latter because a class burst heal is hard to pass up, is more reliable than Rally, and frees you from having to use 2H. In other words, you probably best be a hybrid rather than a pure stamblade. You'll need dual sustain. You may even go so far as using Concealed Weapon over Surprise Attack for the +10% damage bonus, at which point you've crossed over into magblade territory, but you're probably still a hybrid with more or less a melee stamblade playstyle. Stormweaver's Cavort is another option that really blurs the line, since you can be a magicka build with stamina playstyle using that mythic. (It's OK, interesting, but not optimal I would say).

What arguably makes you a true magblade is using a destro staff with either Swallow Soul or Force Shock as the spammable along with copious amounts of light armor. Light armor will make you feel the squishiest a nightblade can feel, but is one of the ingredients that goes into cloak sustain. This is what I play. A nightblade that can permanently sustain Cloak gives you some incredible freedom. You choose when to engage. Perma-cloaking, e.g. cloaking every 3 seconds, means NPC guards don't detect you (while they always detect crouching players that get too close) and you have an edge over players, including other nightblades, that merely crouch. This often results in first strike advantage on those players. Not that it's very honorable to strike the poor PvEers who sneak from quest to quest in IC. You run into some capable (stam)blades that primarily just crouch, but also those questers.

If you wish to be stealthy, but are not a pure magblade, then being a vampire is a must, e.g. so you negate the speed penalty from crouch. You should go level 2 as well, for the extra weapon / spell damage and probably level 3 for the Undeath passive.

In terms of Cloak and/or Crouch sustain, you can back bar the Darloc Brae set. This allows you to dispense with light armor, if you so choose, but it's a pain of a set to manage. Also, any build that goes heavily in the direction of Cloak tends to sacrifice significant damage regardless of how it's done, due to the sustain and speed needed. If you're disengaging from combat with Cloak as your main means of survival, you have to be fast. A way to get Major Expedition, Swift jewelry and/or the Wild Hunt ring are the order of the day to make Cloak work effectively as a pure magblade with limited dodge roll sustain. Having at least 1K stam sustain (dual regen food, 1x Magma Incarnate and the like) is IMO also still a must.

For a higher damage more competitive nightblade you'll want to give up some of the mag sustain and you probably want to wear some medium armor. You'll probably have to give up some speed and possibly use Shadow Image in conjunction with either Cloak morph as your escape tool. Tankier setups that don't cloak and that use Refreshing Path to activate the Concealed Weapon damage buff are also possible. Stamina bow builds are another option. Then there's bombers. You really have a lot of choices.

For a perma-cloaking, light armor magblade Breton is ideal, especially in no CP. I love that playstyle, but it is a utility playstyle. It allows you to farm Tel Var and bring them home. Your speed and cloak sustain are your defense, but you really have to be on your toes when you're visible. Unless you're wearing both Mara + Rallying Cry, which feels nice but really nerfs your damage on a perma-cloaking speed build, you will feel very squishy when not in cloak.

Bosmer is a traditional stamblade race for the sustain and speed bonus. Altmer, Orc, Imperial, Dunmer, Khajiit are all good, I would say. I don't think I'd be a Nord, Argonian nor Redguard.

Kaysha

fred4 gave you a pretty comprehensive answer. So I´ll just add my short version.

1. see above. Pick what you like and don´t care about mag vs stam
2. Khajiit or Dunmer

flguy147ub17_ESO

fred4 wrote: »

These days I see no reason to play a pure stamblade. While that class has always had somewhat high magicka sustain requirements for Cloak, Shadow Image and, in the past, Mass Hysteria, nowadays you will likely want to add Merciless Resolve and Healthy / Shrewd Offering to that list. The former, because it hits harder than Relentless Focus, and the latter because a class burst heal is hard to pass up, is more reliable than Rally, and frees you from having to use 2H. In other words, you probably best be a hybrid rather than a pure stamblade. You'll need dual sustain. You may even go so far as using Concealed Weapon over Surprise Attack for the +10% damage bonus, at which point you've crossed over into magblade territory, but you're probably still a hybrid with more or less a melee stamblade playstyle. Stormweaver's Cavort is another option that really blurs the line, since you can be a magicka build with stamina playstyle using that mythic. (It's OK, interesting, but not optimal I would say).

What arguably makes you a true magblade is using a destro staff with either Swallow Soul or Force Shock as the spammable along with copious amounts of light armor. Light armor will make you feel the squishiest a nightblade can feel, but is one of the ingredients that goes into cloak sustain. This is what I play. A nightblade that can permanently sustain Cloak gives you some incredible freedom. You choose when to engage. Perma-cloaking, e.g. cloaking every 3 seconds, means NPC guards don't detect you (while they always detect crouching players that get too close) and you have an edge over players, including other nightblades, that merely crouch. This often results in first strike advantage on those players. Not that it's very honorable to strike the poor PvEers who sneak from quest to quest in IC. You run into some capable (stam)blades that primarily just crouch, but also those questers.

If you wish to be stealthy, but are not a pure magblade, then being a vampire is a must, e.g. so you negate the speed penalty from crouch. You should go level 2 as well, for the extra weapon / spell damage and probably level 3 for the Undeath passive.

In terms of Cloak and/or Crouch sustain, you can back bar the Darloc Brae set. This allows you to dispense with light armor, if you so choose, but it's a pain of a set to manage. Also, any build that goes heavily in the direction of Cloak tends to sacrifice significant damage regardless of how it's done, due to the sustain and speed needed. If you're disengaging from combat with Cloak as your main means of survival, you have to be fast. A way to get Major Expedition, Swift jewelry and/or the Wild Hunt ring are the order of the day to make Cloak work effectively as a pure magblade with limited dodge roll sustain. Having at least 1K stam sustain (dual regen food, 1x Magma Incarnate and the like) is IMO also still a must.

For a higher damage more competitive nightblade you'll want to give up some of the mag sustain and you probably want to wear some medium armor. You'll probably have to give up some speed and possibly use Shadow Image in conjunction with either Cloak morph as your escape tool. Tankier setups that don't cloak and that use Refreshing Path to activate the Concealed Weapon damage buff are also possible. Stamina bow builds are another option. Then there's bombers. You really have a lot of choices.

For a perma-cloaking, light armor magblade Breton is ideal, especially in no CP. I love that playstyle, but it is a utility playstyle. It allows you to farm Tel Var and bring them home. Your speed and cloak sustain are your defense, but you really have to be on your toes when you're visible. Unless you're wearing both Mara + Rallying Cry, which feels nice but really nerfs your damage on a perma-cloaking speed build, you will feel very squishy when not in cloak.

Bosmer is a traditional stamblade race for the sustain and speed bonus. Altmer, Orc, Imperial, Dunmer, Khajiit are all good, I would say. I don't think I'd be a Nord, Argonian nor Redguard.

Thanks man for taking the time out for the great reply on your knowledge of the class.

rymere83

Im doing the same as I never played nightblade but have everything else. Im leveling Khajiit vampire hybrid

rymere83

I have a follow up question. What are some good sets for pvp?

fred4

rymere83 wrote: »

I have a follow up question. What are some good sets for pvp?

Rallying Cry (front bar or back bar, balanced)
Mara's Balm (defensive / tanky, best double barred)
Plaguebreak (front bar offense, maybe not best for NB though)
Wretched Vitality (back bar sustain)
Clever Alchemist (back bar most likely, but can be front barred)
Nightmother's Gaze (front bar, if not using a Major Breach skill)
Stygian (offense, needs to be double barred)
War Maiden (Ravenwatch magblade front bar offense)
Seducer (back bar cloak sustain)
Darloc Brae (speciality sustain, very much an acquired taste)
Vicious Death (bomb build)
Scavenging Demise (with Lethal Arrow spam)
Rush of Agony (Ambush / Lotus Fan into ulti bomb or AOE build)
Dark Convergence (possibly with Vicious Death for ranged bomb build using Elemental Ring skill)

Zoal (defensive / melee get out of jail free card with Slippery CP)
Balorgh (widely used, offensive)
Magma Incarnate (balanced two piece or high-value one piece)

Markyn
Sea Serpent's Coil
Stormweaver's Cavort (for magblade)
Wild Hunt

Master Bow
Blackrose Bow
Vateshran 2H

OBJnoob

@fred4 I'm the worst NB in the world but since I got some stygian rings from the golden a week or two ago I decided to drive myself crazy with one more try. I have stygian front barred and rallying cry backbarred. Trying to be a melee gank build more or less but without being omg squishy.

Are you SURE stygian needs to be double barred? The writing seems to indicate otherwise, and I was under the impression it carried over.

fred4

OBJnoob wrote: »

@fred4 I'm the worst NB in the world but since I got some stygian rings from the golden a week or two ago I decided to drive myself crazy with one more try. I have stygian front barred and rallying cry backbarred. Trying to be a melee gank build more or less but without being omg squishy.

Are you SURE stygian needs to be double barred? The writing seems to indicate otherwise, and I was under the impression it carried over.

Most sets that have a timed effect carry over to the other bar. Stygian does not. If you bar swap, the 5-piece bonus is gone (re-check, if you want). All weapon damage and pen makes it a decent set that some people swear by, but the bar swap issue blunts it. Should be decent with Oakensoul.

fred4

OBJnoob wrote: »

@fred4 I'm the worst NB in the world but since I got some stygian rings from the golden a week or two ago I decided to drive myself crazy with one more try. I have stygian front barred and rallying cry backbarred. Trying to be a melee gank build more or less but without being omg squishy.

Are you SURE stygian needs to be double barred? The writing seems to indicate otherwise, and I was under the impression it carried over.

I have never gelled with stamblade myself. I keep pointing people to React Faster's video, who is using Rallying back bar + Nightmother's Gaze front bar, but I don't play that myself. I tried, but I'm a diehard permacloaking magblade. It's a playstyle that's just so different from stamblade. I always miss defending with Cloak and RAT over dodge rolls, the freedom you have from not aggroing NPCs and so on, when I try to switch to a stamblade with higher damage, but limited mag sustain.

I think medium armor feels tankier than light, though. It shouldn't make that much of a difference, but subjectively it does. If you want to brawl, but especially if you want to brawl in light armor, then Mara + Rallying feels so much more comfortable than Rallying alone. Of course I like speed and cloak sustain on top of that, which makes me very much a Tel Var farmer and AvA player for lack of damage, not much of a dueller or 1vXer, nor a ganker. If the target is sufficiently weak, you can gank anyone regardless, but after playing the game for a while that isn't the point anymore. I thus kind of accept my role. I like the utility of my build, I like how it plays more than being result-focused. I don't count duelling prowess as a main aim anymore. I tend to have objectives like helping the campaign or making Tel Var. I can't kill good players on my own, I generally won't kill bad ones for sport, but I might kill them in order to own Imperial City for example.

I can't tell you where the sweet spot lies for you. Heavy armor duelling stamblades have always existed. Some don't cloak. If you are tankier, you need to rely less on speed, nor your ganking burst to try and outright kill people before they kill you. In that case Sea Serpent may be the way to claw back some damage. I would say Rallying Cry is such a good set with some crit and a damage component, it's very hard to beat. It is up and down, though. Especially if you get ganked yourself, unless you're really disciplined with your Vigor, there will be downtime. It doesn't feel all that tanky on it's own. It's the combination with Mara where I went "whoa, this feels tankier". This is despite the fact the Mara heals are not all that big and it's burst heal sporadic. I think Mara is one of those sets that just has a really good proc condition, e.g. it very much heals you when needed.

If you want to be a ganker or a dueller, though, Mara is not the set to use. You need something more potent. You've been in that sorc thread, right? I just don't get it. I was on my stamsorc. I was running Rallying + Mara on that class and my tooltips looked like crap, but sorc has those buffs, like +10% on high health targets. I'm also just running a Master 2H. Anyhow, I ran into a nightblade who was really sweaty and wouldn't let go, constantly firing spec bows, using Sea Serpent. He couldn't kill me. Neither could I kill him. Neither of our damage was that high, e.g. crit Incaps and spec bows staying under 10K.

So I don't know what to say. I think stories of 30K spec bows are disengenious, because in my experience they don't happen very often. I could 1vX bad players on my Brawler sorc and the NB I ran into was probably configured the same. Both builds worked in their role, I'm sure, but neither one of us could kill each other.

I wouldn't expect too much from Rallying and Stygian alone. I'm not sure what group buffs or campaign buffs result in 30K bows. You want to kill tanks, there are other factors too. The vamp weapon damage buff. Full Balorgh. Possibly Titanborn set at low health with Simmering Frenzy. That's been one way to gank people, but I've always felt builds like that are really limited. You pick your target, you try to do your one trick pony thing and that's it. With sufficient weapon damage any proc can also be strong. I got lured into a building recently where the stamblade turned around with a heavy attack, Deadland's Assassin proc and either 16K Incap or spec bow (far off the mythical 30K) against my squishy nightblade. Some people know how to make that work, but it's so reliant on things falling into place or playing psychological games.

OBJnoob

@fred4 Jeez that's too bad about stygian that really doesn't make sense to me. I'll probably test it later to be double sure-- but Im sure you're right.

Part of my problem with NB is just lack of playing the class. I had a tanky heavy armor dark cloak magblade about a year ago that functioned really well in Ravenwatch. Black Rose and Rattlecage, believe it or not. But that NB played very much like any brawler does... It's the more traditional NB that I'm garbage at.

Cloak doesn't seem to work very well for me. I'll be just fighting guards and constantly get decloaked. It's kinda weird and I'm really not sure how to explain it... Like I say, I'm perhaps just really bad.

That being said when I gave it a test run earlier it wasn't "terrible." My damage was good, so that's step 1. I got a little better at my own bars, which feel very foreign to other ways of playing, so that's good. I ended up redoing my CP because, well, Lord knows what I was doing when I set it up before. Playing in Ravenwatch by the looks of it, lol. So that should help next time.

Anyway... I'm going to force myself to try and play this way for a day or two. Give it the old college try so at least I'll know what exactly is wrong before I change things. But any advice you have is welcome.

So I'm using rally BB stygian FB balorghs and ring of wild hunt. Heavy trainee chest. 3 light 3 medium.

DW FB: cloak, RaT, healthy offering, concealed, assassin's will, Incap.
Frost Staff BB: siphoning strikes, fear, vigor, teleport shade, ele sus, Soul Tether

The goal isn't to be the gankiest around, but I want to successfully gank lesser targets almost always. And I want to be able to 1v1. So more of a prolonged gank style I guess.

I've got my FB weapon damage up around 6300 and that's not including stacks of AW or a back bar weapon damage enchant proc. I'm comfortable with that. My penetration is about 12k, and that isn't including ele sus, balorghs, or 1 of my CP stars. My crit chance is probably about 38% with minor savagery up.

My HP is about 28k... My stam AND mag recovery are both about 1200, not including a CP star I have.

fred4

OBJnoob wrote: »

Cloak doesn't seem to work very well for me. I'll be just fighting guards and constantly get decloaked. It's kinda weird and I'm really not sure how to explain it... Like I say, I'm perhaps just really bad.

That's guards not obeying the rules of the game. Some NPCs still have the old NB "barbed wire around your feet" skill. It's a DOT. It uncloaks you on every tick. ZOS largely fixed Cloak DOT issues against players. They never bothered to fix what NPCs can do. Guards also throw other CCs and negates around and, finally, an inflight projectile will immediately unloak you again, when it hits after you just cloaked.

Anyway... I'm going to force myself to try and play this way for a day or two. Give it the old college try so at least I'll know what exactly is wrong before I change things.

Or you'll get used to the build. Makes sense. New builds may not work. Tried and tested builds from other players typically also don't work. Not at first. It's all about your habits and muscle memory. It takes time to work that out and accurately judge a build.

But any advice you have is welcome.

I'll try .

DW FB: cloak, RaT, healthy offering, concealed, assassin's will, Incap.
Frost Staff BB: siphoning strikes, fear, vigor, teleport shade, ele sus, Soul Tether

I have a long history of rearranging my bars. In general what plays best is having a clear offensive and defensive bar. In other words having Cloak on your back bar along with buff skills (RAT, Siphoning) that don't uncloak you when you cast them. You ended up not doing that, which I can understand. Having the speed buff on an offensive skill (Concealed) has always been a problem for bar layout and you want to buff with Merciless in cloak as well. This is probably one of the reasons this feels so alien to play.

I am, funnily enough, not that much of a dodge rolling player. Years of playing magicka when shields were still the thing to use disabused me of that. Then I discovered 1H+S and got into the habit of blocking when being focused and I can't get away. However, in order to do that, you would really need the burst heal on the back bar while you're blocking with your blocking weapon. Not intermittent blocks, but "help, I'm being focused" blocks. Vigor doesn't cut it for that, but what can you do. I actually like your bar layout. I only think you're going to lean more heavily on dodge rolls or on Shadow Image than I do. I think you should try Stormweaver's Cavort with your build. Maybe Sea Serpent as well.

One of your problems is that you're a magblade, but you're locked into Brutality and Savagery potions with your build, which don't give you magicka (in general your mag sustain is far too low for my personal playstyle). The class passive gives you Minor Savagery, not Prophecy. This makes Magelight or Camou Hunter better for optimizing crit than a potion, because you get the flexibility to use Magicka potions and Detection potions. Some hybrid nightblades use Power Extraction for the Brutality / Sorcery. With your current build, absent Rally, you need to quaff your potion before you gank. I do this too, but I use Sorcery / Detection / Magicka potions by default. NB targets don't get away from me. I also get to see ambushes where the tanky bait is accompanied by nightblade(s) or simply crouched players lying in wait. As a cloaking build the magicka doesn't totally go to waste either. It often tops you up, but the lack of a potion for emergency use is an issue with this playstyle.

The goal isn't to be the gankiest around, but I want to successfully gank lesser targets almost always.

You'll gank PvEers any day on any build. So it depends what "lesser targets" means. You have significantly more weapon / spell damage than I do, but I couldn't live with that lack of sustain. I suspect this will make you a fairly pure ganker, whether you like it or not. You'll be in crouch waiting for passers by. You'll have to use the shade to stop / start and recover your resources. You won't be able to sustain in a duel. If you were stamina, you could integrate heavy attacks into your attack rotation for sustain and DW heavy attacks are reasonably fast. That's how you might sustain. Siphoning Attacks is not enough and an ice staff heavy that is not integrated into a time frame where you are on the offensive is slow to land, can miss and leaves you open to counter attack.

My crit chance is probably about 38% with minor savagery up.

It's probably not, see above. I'm assuming you use magicka potions.

An old school roly poly woodelf stamblade has about 2K to 2.5K unbuffed stam regen with Leeching Strikes on top. That would be a build you could get into a sustained fight with. I personally have something like 2.2K mag regen in a typical build, along with at least 1.2K stam regen. I also build in a way to optimise out of combat cloak sustain (which I can elaborate on, if you've never heard about out of combat regen differing from in combat). It means Atro mundus and high regen food (Ghastly or Hissmir Fisheye Rye) are mandatory, no sustain from sets, but 6x light armor, Breton, and Barrier ultimate (+10% mag regen from Alliance War Support skill line passive) on the back bar to sustain perma-cloaking. I'm not saying you should build that way. Not at all in fact. My way of building limits damage and is not recommended for competitive duelling. I just want to contrast what it takes to be a high movement "can stay in the fight" build.

I think lack of sustain makes you relatively immobile. You can't dodge roll much in a fight. You can't sustain in a fight. Maybe better as a stamblade with integrated (DW) heavies that return stamina. You can gank and you will probably lean on the Shade more than on Cloak. You'll be forced to sit in crouch as you recuperate. This kind of playstyle fits in with Shadow Image and quite possibly a lack of speed more than with Cloak and speed. I make Cloak work by using RAT and being fast. Dodge rolling with a bow would also help. Wild Hunt, though, if you have a lot of speed you're able to stay in and move with fights and you more successfully disengage with Cloak alone, while you constantly move out of range of your shade. That is why I do not use Shadow Image. I think low sustain and Shadow Image both anchor you. With the overall speed available in the game, I'd go so far as saying Shadow Image is yesterday's news, although is does pave the way for ganking attempts, porting back into a keep or house afterwards.

Mass Hysteria isn't really a thing anymore, stunning people with Incap or off balance is. Yes, it can get players off your back and that was fun in the past. The problem is that it's offensive use was kneecapped when ultimates and Merciless got their 400ms delay, which is why I guess you have it on the back bar. I'd consider Mirage or Phantasmal Escape. Even if those overlap with Vigor and RAT respectively, you're after the dodge cost and AOE damage reductions. An alternative I've used in the past is considering my build mixed melee / ranged, e.g. having Swallow Soul and/or Impale on the destro bar. Impale is a good option after Merciless or Incap, because it times well (possibly into the same GCD). I never managed to do a well-timed bar swap during my burst, though, which is why I moved away from this bar layout again, preferring a clear separation of offensive and defensive bars. The reason I mention Swallow Soul, however, is that the healing from it is not to be underestimated. You can get 1K+ healing ticks from players. It keys off the damage you do. You'll get much higher healing, if you hit an NPC with it. Wouldn't live without it for IC boss farming.

OBJnoob

Let's see here...

NPCs: yup that's exactly what I'm experiencing. All of that. I was playing just a bit ago and was getting away from players fine.

My bars: I'm glad you like them! I put a little thought into them. Why vigor on back bar? It procs rallying more reliable than healthy offering. I'm not scared to spend a little time on this bar, light attacking to build up stacks and applying ele sus. Not at all a big deal for me to have cloak on front bar... When I get attacked I fear and shadow image away. Yes I do roll more than you, lol. And yes I have to crouch when able. But... I'm using stamina pots

Sustain: I changed my mundus from weapon damage to magic recovery. Oh, and I do use the magic version of siphoning strikes. Stam sustain isn't a problem... Wearing at least 3 well fitted and stam pots I can dance. When I have a negative effect on me and I've taken a potion my stam recovery is probably like 1500. My mag recovery now is about 1600... With a negative effects another 200 I think? From CP. In short you were right but I think I fixed it.

Mass Hysteria: I'm sure I'll experiment... I think the major cowardice is nice... It procs resolve for me on the back bar... And I mean, it's nice to be able to stun between ultimates. If I use the mirage thingy I'll take the one that gives the dodge roll reduction, lol.

In the end: it was too laggy tonight to do much of anything. We were gated so there was no spreading out to small-scale. I killed a few people but mostly everyone was glued to the pack and couldn't be, uh, extricated. I got behind enemy lines several times... Which may I say was both fun and boring at the same time? But once I was up top in a flipped keep running some enemies around. Killed like two I think... Drove the rest nuts. Highlight of the night.

Janni

I play a perma cloak magblade like @fred4's and I can say that despite being very squishy the freedom it provides is excellent even for beginners. Def pair it with wild hunt for that racecar zoom and some extra clearance when trying to cloak defensively. Speaking of cloak, I swear by it as a defensive tool even if you immediately break it afterward. It literally does act just like a magicka dodgeroll!

My personal setup is 5/1/1 light with Turog's Pact on the frontbar and whatever 2 piece weapon I feel like running on the back. I usually swap between Spinners and Mother's sorrow for the other 5 piece but both of those are prolly super outdated these days. Like I said earlier, Wild Hunt is a must since I need to run like hell when going on the defensive plus it's just plain fun to zoom around. I also run 1 piece of Slimecraw but you could swap that out for really anything. I run really high mag regen since I am a dunmer. Like over 2k! But the infused turog's flamestaff with a fire enchant combine with crushing shock can make up for that a lot.

OBJnoob

@Janni I can see where the extra sustain you two run would be handy. And I agree cloak is still useful even when it "doesn't work." You can still blink out of sight for a second and one or two attacks probably miss in that instant even if you show right back up. Plus, for me, it activates stygian and makes my next attack crit. I really do spend a lot of time on my back bar-- it's just so much easier to build up stacks of AW from range-- if I've barswapped and pressed cloak it's because I'm ready to attack 8 out of 10 times.

Not that I don't use cloak in moments of "omg gotta go," but my character does have enough speed where I normally only have to spam it 3 or 4 times and then I can just sprint/roll. Major expedition, minor expedition, ring of wild hunt, celerity.

I'm not the cloakiest and I'm not the fastest either, but my playstyle is still fairly similar to yours.

Im looking forward to trying again tonight. Last night was really not ideal for nightblading, in my amateur opinion.

DrNukenstein

I'm glad to see Darloc Brae getting so many mentions. Works great on the body too for easier maintenance and an arena weapon back bar. The utility is 10/10 and opens up damage options like sated frenzy and stat food.

Lenny

fred4 wrote: »

These days I see no reason to play a pure stamblade. While that class has always had somewhat high magicka sustain requirements for Cloak, Shadow Image and, in the past, Mass Hysteria, nowadays you will likely want to add Merciless Resolve and Healthy / Shrewd Offering to that list. .

Can you share a build/gear set that I can implement this with? Don't mind playing a utility magblade, but after being gone for so long it would help to know what abilities I need and what gear I need to grind to get.

fred4

Lenny wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

These days I see no reason to play a pure stamblade. While that class has always had somewhat high magicka sustain requirements for Cloak, Shadow Image and, in the past, Mass Hysteria, nowadays you will likely want to add Merciless Resolve and Healthy / Shrewd Offering to that list. .

Can you share a build/gear set that I can implement this with? Don't mind playing a utility magblade, but after being gone for so long it would help to know what abilities I need and what gear I need to grind to get.

Sorry, I can't outright recommend my build anymore, because I don't PvP enough and don't care to investigate the options anymore. I'm not fully up-to-date myself. Recommending something else, untested, would not be a good idea. What OBJnoob is working on (see above) is probably as good a starting point as any, but I'll try and clarify a few things.

The first questions from anyone trying to answer your's are: For Ravenwatch (no proc + no CP)? For BGs (no CP)? For CP open world?

If you're acquiring just one new set, make that Rallying Cry (for CP). Don't grind it. Just shop in guild stores. Back bar it or front bar it. Use it in CP unless you want to be an outright ganker, bomber or other speciality build.

Next, let me explain my idea of utility. Number one is perma-cloak, so I can engage and disengage at will, avoid riding in Cyro and bring Tel Var home in IC. Perma-cloak means more for me than for OBJnoob. It means I don't run my magicka down while cloaking and while casting RAT quite frequently inbetween two cloaks, at the very least in build variations where I don't have Wild Hunt. If I have to watch my magicka lest I accidentally run it down to zero at any time and I have to stop moving, I'm not happy. Cloaking while I move is my default. I don't just run. I don't sprint. I cloak and move. Even in Cyrodiil that's almost as fast as a horse, if you're at speed cap. It's my defense against being sniped. This makes my sustain demands higher than pretty much everyone else's.

As ever, magicka regen outside of combat is not shown on your stat sheet and differs from in-combat regen. This means you want mag regen from certain sources only. You want the Atronach mundus. You want a high regen food. I really only consider two. Hissmir Fisheye Rye without Stormweaver's Cavort and Ghastly Eye Bowl with Stormweaver's Cavort. Stormweaver's itself only helps with magicka sustain in combat, not outside. However you don't need the stam sustain, if you use it, which indirectly bumps up your damage a little from the food change. Furthermore being a Breton (magicka cost reduction) is ideal if not 100% necessary, slotting Barrier on the back bar (where Cloak is) is mandatory for the +10% (in and out of combat) magicka recovery, and I use a Seducer back bar in no CP, e.g. Ravenwatch. 6x light armor is also mandatory for me, again for sustain reasons. Nothing else will do. I hate Darloc Brae, because it's so hard to tell whether you're crouching when you also cloak. The eye is the same. Those little sprinkles from the set are sluggish to appear and can be hard to see in combat situations.

My builds leave you open to being insta-killed. My health is low (around 24K), because of the foods I use. I'm super squishy, because of 6x light armor. My defense is cloak sustain, stamina sustain (or Stormweaver's) for dodge rolls, and very high speed. All Swift, gold jewelry if you happen to have it, and Wild Hunt or Stormweaver's are another prong of my "utility". I can just be where I want to be. Cloak and speed are a match made in heaven. Safety comes from the amount of movement I do. Can't hit what you can't see and can't track. Also can't hit the player who uses Miat's and most likely dodge rolls your opening burst. However, when another NB hears me cloaking and pops a detection potion before I do, I do get insta-killed sometimes.

My final point of utility is that I like to have a ranged attack option, which OBJnoob does not have outside of building Merciless stacks. He sustains, because he doesn't have a spammable on his ranged bar, only buff skills, reactive skills, and a free skill (Elemental Susceptability). I run Swallow Soul and Impale and use a fire staff. Why? Because it's good for farming IC bosses solo. Much better to have the Swallow Soul heal and be ranged than to fight them with Concealed. It's also, frankly, easier to zerg with than concentrating on Incap / Concealed / Merciless combos as your only attack. OBJnoob has duelling aspirations. I don't.

There are many good reasons not to build like I do. My hyper-focus on light armor for sustain, on shunning the awkward-to-use Darloc Brae option, on shunning vampire as I hate the look, all of that makes me squishy and have low weapon / spell damage. Rally and Mara combined fixes the squishiness, but leaves your damage in the gutter even more (well, Mara does). My focus on speed, either via Wild Hunt or high RAT sustain in a Stormweaver build, leaves further popular damage options on the table, e.g. Sea Serpent's Coil or Markyn. Swallow Soul is lacklustre damage compared to Concealed, but also Crushing Shock. You hit targets harder with the latter, due to the interrupt (Dark Dealing sorcs), due to status effects, due to Asylum staff and Draugrkin's Grip, if you so choose. Swallow Soul heals you instead, but leaves damage on the table. Don't build like I do .

P.S.: If you want something super easy, consider Oakensoul.

birdik

Mag NB, Dark Elf

OBJnoob

I like reading your posts @fred4 you seem very honest and humble.

Since my build is being used as an example I'll provide a little update... Still using the same gear and abilities as previously described.

I mean it's not bad. I've had countless successful 1v2s and some ganks. I would have more ganks but I prefer to start a fight with ele sus and a few light attacks so mostly people know I'm coming. One gank I was very proud of there were like 6 enemies still leftover inside a keep. I'm going to assume they were halfway good small scalers because they were giving my allies fits. I was just sitting back light attacking and casting ele sus. Anyway I eventually went invis and swooped in. Picked this one poor person out from the middle of the group-- no idea how I actually managed to hit who I was aiming at--- but I incapped them for like 12k then spec bowed for another 12k, animation canceling the spec bow as I rolled backwards. It happened so fast it was kinda funny... Assuming they had let some buffs run out... But you'd have thought they got bombed.

My highest hit so far was either 23k or 26k... I can't remember. Either way, quite alright. The damage is there. The survivability isn't quite as bad as you would think. The sustain, as Fred has been saying, is the issue.

I've tried some bigger Xing attempts but generally have to settle for killing a squishy or two and leaving (or dying.) Sometimes the enemies aren't spread out enough and I can't even get at the Squishies. There's always a sorc Curse popping you out of invis, or some DK leaping at the exact moment you press the button and it hits you anyway, or just whatever. And my NB can deal with it, sorta, just not for long.

I'll tell you right now that if potions were hybridized my character would be perfect. Not being able to take mag potions is THE thing holding me back.

But since I can't change that... I'm probably going to change my main hand front bar weapon enchant to be the return magicka enchant. I'd been running the stam version of the same thing, hoping for some sundered/minor breach uptime. Also, I'm probably going to try using the stam version of relentless focus. And if this still isn't enough I can just change a jewelry enchant

-shrug- it's hard for me to tell how I'm doing to be honest. I've been playing a pretty strong warden for the last 3 months and after my NB encounters, win or lose, I ask myself if my warden would've done better. Sadly I think the answer right now is yes. But it's hard to tell. NBs do some much damage sometimes you kill someone REALLY fast and maybe you're left thinking they were a bad player but maybe they weren't.